Hits mixed in the Box

[Shan]

Thought I'd start this thread so that we can check out some stuff thats been mixed all in PT or other DAWS. I love checking out in the box mixes. Great for learning. A few that I know of.

-Steve Vai Alive in an Utlra World. Epic. Mixed and Mastered by Steve Vai and Neil Citron.

-Enrique Iglesias Enrique "Alabao" Interscope. Multi-Platinum. Mixed by Rhett Lawrence. (I like Rhetts' mixes)

-Toto "Through The Looking Glass" Simon Phillips recorded the project, and did a beautiful job mixing one track. Steve MacMillan mixed the rest. No outboard equipment was used mixing the Toto project except an SPL Transient Designer.

-Dave Pensado mixed Christina Aguilera's "Beautiful" with Pro Tools|HD

-All the Mixes done by Carter William Humphrey for Rod Stewart's "American Songbook" Vol. I and II were mixed in the box. No outboard processing, and bounced to disc.

-Barbra Streisand's last album, "The Movie Album", entirely in the box using only 1 external digital reverb and no control surface. Mixed by Dave Reitzas. www.reitzas.com. The external reverb was the Eventide Orville and the speakers he used for this project were the Genelec 1031's (Barbra's) and the 1032's (his).

- Lonestar 'Amazed' rock version. All-in-the-box using Paris with the exception of one channel of TC 5000 via digital I/O for the snare verb. Mixed by Brian T.

-Kelly Clarkson's "Miss Independent" Mixed by Rhett Lawrence.

Thats all I know of. I'm sure Charles knows a few including his own projects. Take it away Charles and everyone elese. Any other in the box mixes we can check out?

Shane

[C.Lambrechts]

although not allways very clear how it was done ... :

http://www.digidesign.com/news/credits/

[Shan]

Originally posted by C.Lambrechts
although not allways very clear how it was done ... :

http://www.digidesign.com/news/credits/

Your right. I'm familiar with this list and its not clear to me at all. I know for sure alot of songs on that list were mixed on SSL boards. Any other 'In the box mixes' we can add to this list?

Shane

[toolstudio]

The very most of these quoted tracks, are mixed with real world gear
and in SSL/Neve rooms with all the cool analog toys.

I guess the list means that ProTools was used as a playback system during mixdown.

I personaly find it kind of funny these PR strategies of the DAW manufacturers.

wolfgang



toolhouse studios, germany

[kwhatx]

It depends on what your definition of "in the box" is.

For me, it means no external devices (comps, reverbs, consoles, etc.) were used except for maybe a control surface. All comps/efx are plugins.

It seems that as soon as you add outboard gear and consoles you are mainly using PT as a playback system.

What is everybody's definition of "in the box"?

[Shan]

Yes. Many agree that the Billboard list is unclear. And now back to the original topic.

-Kelly Clarkson-A moment like this. Mixed by Rhett Lawrence.

- Jessica Simpson Irresistible "Forever in Your Eyes" This on went Gold. Mixed by Rhett Lawrence.

- 98 Degrees Revelation "You Should Be Mine", "Always You and I", "Dizzy". Universal. This one was multi-platinum. Mixed by Rhett Lawrence.

- Blackeyed Peas & Macy Gray "Request Line". The Will.I.Am remix and the second Rhett Lawrence remix were done ITB that were on the maxi-disc. Mixed by Rhett Lawrence.

-Steve MacMillan just finished mixing the new Corrs album in the box. I dont think it has been released yet though.

Shane

[Shan]

Originally posted by kwhatx
It depends on what your definition of "in the box" is.

For me, it means no external devices (comps, reverbs, consoles, etc.) were used except for maybe a control surface. All comps/efx are plugins.

It seems that as soon as you add outboard gear and consoles you are mainly using PT as a playback system.

What is everybody's definition of "in the box"?

Yes. In my first post '...mixed all in PT or other DAWS' means In the box not as a playback device into a console. One engineer in my first post used an external verb that I mentioned.

To continue this list:

-Livin' La Vida Loca-Ricky Martin mixed by our moderator Charles Dye.

Shane

[Shan]

Originally posted by toolstudio
The very most of these quoted tracks, are mixed with real world gear
and in SSL/Neve rooms with all the cool analog toys.

I guess the list means that ProTools was used as a playback system during mixdown.

I personaly find it kind of funny these PR strategies of the DAW manufacturers.

wolfgang



toolhouse studios, germany

The tracks I have quoted were all in the box. They were actually quoted by the mixing engineers themselves elsewhere. I do agree that the Billboard list is misleading though.

Shane

[Boogle]

Originally posted by Shan
The tracks I have quoted were all in the box. They were actually quoted by the mixing engineers themselves elsewhere. I do agree that the Billboard list is misleading though.

Shane

Sorry Shan if you've already answered this, but are you saying all the tracks mentioned were mixed straight to 2 track medium out of two channels of PT? With no console (other the mix buss out).

If so this is something I have been asking about for absolutely ages- clear examples of complete ITB mixes.

[Shan]

Originally posted by Boogle
Sorry Shan if you've already answered this, but are you saying all the tracks mentioned were mixed straight to 2 track medium out of two channels of PT? With no console (other the mix buss out).

If so this is something I have been asking about for absolutely ages- clear examples of complete ITB mixes.

I know that the engineers said they were mixed inside PT. I'm not sure about the final stereo track or any mastering other than the Rod Stewart stuff that William did. He actually BTD in PT when the mix was done. And I recall a few stating that they had some plugs across the mix bus.

A quote from Steve regarding Toto, "The output was direct stereo AES digital to Alesis MasterLink."


Shane

[nikki-k]

Hi!
I wish they would get that one nailed down.

To me, "mixed in the box" means one fo two things:

Obvious would be all the tracks ended up "in the box" at some point, were edited/mixed, and then either bussed to two internal tracks (or internal stereo tracks), or BTD was used. Outboard as insert(s) does not matter.

Or, same as above, but master fader/two-track/stereo sum sent to an outboard recorder of some kind.

Individual stems from PT into say, an SSL, Dangerous box, etc, is NOT "mixing in the box" IMO.

Then again, if software plugins are avoided altogether in favor of using only outboard, but the DAW's summing/pan laws are utilized...hmmm...

Now, "Tracked/Edited/Mixed in the Box" would be a list of albums I would like to see. An HONEST list tho...

[Boogle]

Hi!
I wish they would get that one nailed down.

Me Too

Individual stems from PT into say, an SSL, Dangerous box, etc, is NOT "mixing in the box" IMO.

Agreed, but sometimes the only way to be sure is to hear it from the mouth of the mix engineer. Thanx Shan for the heads up though.b

[Jan Folkson]

Originally posted by Shan
-All the Mixes for Rod Stewart's "American Songbook" Vol. I and II were mixed in the box. No outboard processing, and bounced to disc. Mixed by Carter William Humphrey.

I mixed a song on Vol II and it was done on a 'J' although PT was used for recording/playback. A fair amount of outboard was used as well. Where did you get your info?

[Shan]

Originally posted by Jan Folkson
I mixed a song on Vol II and it was done on a 'J' although PT was used for recording/playback. A fair amount of outboard was used as well. Where did you get your info?

Sorry Jan. My post wasnt clear and I will change it. All mixes that Carter did on Vol 1&2 he did in the box. Here is his quote:

"All the Mixes I did for Rod Stewart's "American Songbook" Vol. I and II were mixed in the box. No outboard processing, and I bounced to disc. On Vol. II, all of the tracks we did were recorded directly into Pro Tools, and I believe the other producers also recorded into Pro Tools.

Cheers,

Carter William Humphrey"

Here is the
post.

What song did you mix Jan? It all sounds great. Good job.

Shane

[Jan Folkson]

Hey Shane, I tag-team mixed "Til There Was You" on Vol2 with Joel Moss.

[BrianT]

At the risk of immodesty, I mixed the rock version of "Amazed" by Lonestar all-in-the-box, using Paris. It was a #1 Hot 100 single and the album sold multiplatinum. But at the very least, half those sales were driven by the original country version of the song, which was an SSL mix.

I mixed my version of "Amazed" completely internally, with the exception of one channel of TC 5000 via digital I/O for the snare verb (which kind of sucked anyway, for some reason). I think that song and "Livin' La Vida Loca" were the first two #1 Hot 100 singles mixed purely in-the-box, and they happened within a couple of months of each other in 2000, IIRC.

AFAIK, very few #1 Billboard records have been mixed purely internally in a DAW. The large majority of the Digi credits on their page used an analog console. Digi has actually been forced to remove at least one overly ambitious credit there, which actually never even saw a Pro Tools system. So I'd take the Digi credit list with a grain of salt. And to my knowledge, there has been no other #1 Hot 100 single mixed inside a PC. I've done a few top 10 country singles in Paris(maybe a #1 or so as well, but I forget now), and probably somewhere beween 6-10 CCM #1 singles in Paris as well, but I'd have to stop and think about it to get exact numbers. A relatively large number of CCM records are mixed in-the-box, due mostly to budget and recall constraints I think, so you would likely find a goldmine of credits there, if that suits you.

Rhett has been a good friend of mine for nearly 20 years. A really talented guy. He and Serban Ghenea are doing the best sounding PT mixes I'm hearing. Totally good mixes, by any standards, done inside Pro Tools. (So that makes about 2 or 3 out of 1,000,000, right? Sorry, had to poke a little bit 'o fun )

Funny thing is, Rhett only became a mixer relatively recently because of using Pro Tools and getting his roughs to the place where he was getting disappointed with what he was getting back from pro mixer dudes. Rhett's main gig was always keyboards/sequencing/producing before. He and Pensado tag team on mixes very well together, and you could add Kelly Clarkson's "Miss Independent" to your list as a #1 in-the-box single as well.

[Shan]

Originally posted by Jan Folkson
Hey Shane, I tag-team mixed "Til There Was You" on Vol2 with Joel Moss.

Great! I'll check it out. Thanks for the info.

Shane

[Shan]

Hi Brian. I love that version of 'Amazed'. I've heard it many times and think it's great. If there are any other in the box mixes that you have done or that you know of that we can check out let me know. Thanks for your input.

Shane

[Alchemy]

... mixed in the Box ...

Computers, computers!

Nevertheless, the computer is a system created by man.
A human tells the machine what to do, when to do it and how it should be done.

The award the person receives, instead of the equipment.

[Fletcher]

Just curious... would any of you characterize these songs as having "stellar audio"?

I wouldn't. grudge

Yes, they moved a whole lot of units, that's what well written songs promoted by the right record selling machinery is supposed to do... however, last I looked we were in the business of constructing appropriate audio for the record selling industry.

While "mixing in the box" may be a wonderfully cost effective method of making records, and in the future will indeed be the way all of us work... at the moment it just doesn't sound very good. fuuk

Hey, they were telling me that digital audio was "perfect" for 25 years before I heard some digitally recorded audio I thought was good enough for my purposes ... of course if they waited for a luddite piece of shit like me to jump on the bus and go digital, the R&D money for the last 25 years of R&D wouldn't have been there... so it's good that people employed an inferior format for the length of time they did so we could get to things like "RADAR" ... and something tells me that if all these "customers" weren't mixing in the box now, that the R&D money wouldn't be there to actually make it sound good some day... but until that day comes ... I'll be happy with my outboard summing devices thank you very much.

[toolstudio]

I personaly haven't heard so much bad music/mixes as in these days.

On the other hand, do these "hits" deserve it to be mixed in a big room with plenty of outboard gear ?
The dying major isn't investing anymore in new artists. So they investing in some people who are looking pretty and put at least some words out of their mouth.
The speed of beeing there and gone forever is so fast, that you could only come behind it with a DAW.
Switch it on, do some virtual instruments, played by virtual players, record vocals,
edit vocals, let the DAW calculate it together and try to get on the market,
right before the colour of the singers bra
is out again, and she should leave stage right side.

I guess with the leaving of the major companies there is a brilliant market for small indies who relate on sound.

btw. A friend of mine just sold his older PT system with plug ins where he paid about 10.000$ alone for the plug ins.
The loss on the PT system was 91% the
PlugIns he throw behind because they were financialy worthless.

Money well spent, congratulations

And where are all that people who listened to different alglorythmic calculations and what they does to the audio signal. Every mastering guy is/was concerned on what happens to the signal when normalized or even moved the fader so it takes a couple of calculations that definatly degrades the signal ? On one track,... and we are talking on mixing in the box where you have gazillions of cal- and recalcutions and thats the new way of mixing ????
Are you all digitized ???

Don't understand me wrong, I'm not a DAW hater, I love recording, editing and using it as a multitrack recorder, but I'm far away of mixing in it.

Puuh, and now easter eggs :-)


wolfgang

toolhouse studios, germany

[Charles Dye]

Gotta question for you lurkers. Show of hands. Does anybody get tired of this circular argument? Just curious.





(I got my hand up if you're wondering.)

[transfiguration]

O in Eye location recording

[Shan]

My hand is way up also. Thanks for your opinions guys You have some good points. But it seems my thread has gone somewhere else.

Thanks for your contribution BrianT. I checked out the Lonestar mix again last night. Great work! I love that mix. I also liked the Clarkson mix you mentioned. Rhett has done some great stuff.

And now back to the original topic.

Crease, 'Live to be in Love', 'Wrapped Around You', 'Transparent' mixed by our moderator Charles Dye. Not sure about the rest of the album. Maybe Charles can give us more info regarding the other tracks.

Any others we know of?

Shane

[Waylon]

Even my arm is tired of this argument....


maybe one day a DAW will sounds as good as a modified 20 year old PA mixer.


Its the driver fellas, the driver.

[Henchman]

Originally posted by C.Lambrechts
although not allways very clear how it was done ... :

http://www.digidesign.com/news/credits/

That list is the typical deceitfull way of promoting byDigi. Notice how they omit anyhting other than Digi gear in the various columns.

[Jan Folkson]

Come on Mark, all of the manufacturers do that. In SSL ads, they say "mixed on an SSL" but neglect to mention all of the outboard that was used. These companies are in business to sell THEIR stuff, I don't expect to see any manufacturer promoting anybody elses wares in their ads or on their sites unless they have something to gain from it.

[Shan]

I think it's time to kill my thread. It's way in La la land.

Shane

[nikki-k]

Personally, I could care less if a "hit" is done DAW or Desk/Deck.
Hit, schmit.

It is the music I listen to and like that at times will prompt me to wonder what the "process" included. And even then, I am more curious about the gear used, thought process, inspirations, etc just because I am curious. Usually, I am first hit with the pure excitement of experiencing another's "art" brought to life. Just wish they would stop squashing the piss out of things today. Besides, most of the music I love was made before DAW's were even "un-commonplace" What I'd give to have been able to sit in on FLoyd, Queen, Yes, ELP, Zepp sessions... the arguements, the ingenuity, the recreational fun, the atmosphere...

Hits, DAW vs Analog, "it was all edits," "we had 10 producers, 12 songwriters, and 15 engineers!," etc- that's all for people who care about that stuff...I don't... ehe...

Then again, if I were an engineer or musician being forced to use a format I was not happy with...

smoke em if ya got em

[music]

Mixed in the box to me means - Mixed in the box. No outboard, no console, bounce to disk. Any other system seems a hybrid.

Keith