Charles, Minimal front end?

Charles, the last time you were here was before you moved to HD. First let me ask what you consider the sonic benefits of your move to HD to be?

second,

Since we all seem to agree that plugins are good for sweetening, but not attempting to bring about the magic that should have been gained in tracking, What outboard gear would you consider a necessity if you were tracking a record from first note to final mix

[Mike Jasper]

What outboard gear would you consider a necessity if you were tracking a record from first note to final mix?

Good question. And not covered in HDL.

Jasper

When I crafted the question, I was pressed for time and could not finish. What I meant above was let's say your in a genre that lends itself to over dubbing (Hip Hop/ RnB where your laying about 2-4 channels at a time and you can re use gear (say for example you have only 2 comps and you are gonna track snares, kicks and vocals with the same comp). what would be the bear minimum that you'd need and what would you use on what sound source?

[Charles Dye]

Originally posted by no ssl yet
Charles, the last time you were here was before you moved to HD. First let me ask what you consider the sonic benefits of your move to HD to be?

Well I've been using the 192 I/O for close to two years and I'm really extremely happy with it. It seems quite transparent.

Originally posted by no ssl yet
Since we all seem to agree that plugins are good for sweetening, but not attempting to bring about the magic that should have been gained in tracking, What outboard gear would you consider a necessity if you were tracking a record from first note to final mix

How much color are you looking for?

Charles you asked "How much color in the front end?" before I answer let me give you a run down on the system I have now and what I'm going for.

Right now I'm on a mix system w/ an adat bridge, using a TC finalizer for conversion.

ON my front end all I have is an A designs MP2 and a dbx 160xt
On the back end I'll be using an
SSL 384 comp (soon to be acquired) and an NTI EQ3

(I'm not enjoying the process of only having 2 ins to protools at at time, but I'm making it work.)

I'm looking for suggestions on what to add to my front end tracking mainly hip hop and rNB where color is a good thing.

I'm currently considering a Distressor for tracking vocals and bass and complementing my dbx unit on drums and maybe a pair of API 550's

What route would you take if you were in my shoes?

[krid]

Since we are speaking about the sonic benefits between Mix and HD system : the PT HD "Mix Bus" is better sounding ?
It's hard to find a clear answer about that one, some say yes and others no ...

[Charles Dye]

Originally posted by krid
Since we are speaking about the sonic benefits between Mix and HD system : the PT HD "Mix Bus" is better sounding ?

I feel that it is, but it's difficult to say precisely how much of the improvement is from the great sounding DAs of the 192 I/O + how much from the mix buss. I've not had the opportunity to do a complete apples 2 apples comparison: with the same DA (e.g. an Apogee, Prism) on a MIX + HD system playing back the same mix session.

Has anyone else been able to do this comparison? I've always been curious to try.

[Charles Dye]

Originally posted by no ssl yet
I'm looking for suggestions on what to add to my front end tracking mainly hip hop and rNB where color is a good thing.

I'm currently considering a Distressor for tracking vocals and bass and complementing my dbx unit on drums and maybe a pair of API 550's

NSY,

I'm not completely qualified to answer your question, cause I don't really do RnB, but I'll give it a shot.

I think the Distressor is a great choice for your needs. It's extremely versatile, but you probably already know that. The 550's are good, I use them, but they're not my fave.

I recently did a shoot out of a hell of a lot of pre amps, both transparent + flavored varieties, and in a completely blind test every person in the room (producers + engineers) put both the Vintech X73i ($1350.00) and the Vintech X81 ($2395.00) @ the top of their list. These are 1073 + kinda 1081 style mic pre's + EQ's. Compared to the clean + transparent mic pre's (which sounded great nonetheless) these two had tons of personality that really helped the sound stand out in a dense track.

I hope this helps.

[The MPCist]

Originally posted by Charles Dye
I recently did a shoot out of a hell of a lot of pre amps, both transparent + flavored varieties, and in a completely blind test every person in the room (producers + engineers) put both the Vintech X73i ($1350.00) and the Vintech X81 ($2395.00) @ the top of their list. These are 1073 + kinda 1081 style mic pre's + EQ's. Compared to the clean + transparent mic pre's (which sounded great nonetheless) these two had tons of personality that really helped the sound stand out in a dense track.

I hope this helps.

Charles, what do you think of the X73i and the X81's EQ? How does it compare to the other EQ's in your racks and do you use them in your mixes and on what?

:)

[1nation]

Originally posted by Charles Dye
NSY,

I'm not completely qualified to answer your question, cause I don't really do RnB, but I'll give it a shot.

I think the Distressor is a great choice for your needs. It's extremely versatile, but you probably already know that. The 550's are good, I use them, but they're not my fave.

I recently did a shoot out of a hell of a lot of pre amps, both transparent + flavored varieties, and in a completely blind test every person in the room (producers + engineers) put both the Vintech X73i ($1350.00) and the Vintech X81 ($2395.00) @ the top of their list. These are 1073 + kinda 1081 style mic pre's + EQ's. Compared to the clean + transparent mic pre's (which sounded great nonetheless) these two had tons of personality that really helped the sound stand out in a dense track.

I hope this helps.

What other pre's were involved?

[C.Lambrechts]

yes ... what other pre's and what did you record ?

[Charles Dye]

Originally posted by The MPCist
Charles, what do you think of the X73i and the X81's EQ? How does it compare to the other EQ's in your racks and do you use them in your mixes and on what?

Sorry, (I know this sounds kinda dumb, but) we actually didn't test the EQs on any of the boxes, we were testing just mic pre's. It was just really important that we get the best mic pre for this artist. Getting an EQ @ the same time was going to be a bonus. The shootout was for the artist's studio, and we've not purchased the pre yet.

BTW--I really favor only all ITB mixing, so I probably would not use it in a mix.

Sorry I couldn't be more hopeful.

[jeronimo]

Hey Charles... let's say you have to build your front end to track around 10/12 tracks at once... what would you get?

[Extreme Mixing]

My answer to the original question (I know I wasn't asked) is that you need a good vocal chain or two, with mic pres and compressors for tracking.

The problem that I have with the rest of your question is that I don't think you should do too many things to the sound when you record them, especially if you only record them two or three at a time. Heavy handed EQ and compression are best left for when you have a clear picture of exactly where all of the elements need to be to keep them in balance with the rest of the mix. Compression and EQ are hard to undo later on.

Get a few pre amps. Neves are great. I have also used the Vintec stuff and It sounds as close to my Neve as you could ask for. Get a couple of direct boxes. Some instruments like to see a high impedence input. I have a Yamaha RS 7000 that is like that. It sounds really thin through the line inputs of my interfaces or the Neves, but for some reason, it sounds great coming through the 1/4" instruments inputs on my Neves. Investigate signal path options. Listen to the headphone output of the instrument and compare that to the sound that comes through your system. It should sound as good or better than that coming through your system.

The samples now days are pretty good and you shouldn't have to do too much to them on the way in as long as you're recording at 24 bit. Leave that for later on, when you are really clear about the relationship between the 3 or 4 kick drums and the bass, with all of the other instruments and the vocals in the picture, too.

In some cases, less really can be more.

Steve