1993 Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream

[79_Limited]

Originally Posted by ButchVig

Exactly, that's why we chose the studio...that Neve was a kickass sounding, and we thought we would be isolated enough to keep the distractions low.

However, within 24 hours Jimmy new every drug dealer, hooker, bookie, and nut case in Atlanta...so that part of the plan didn't work!

You know the comment about Jimmy is funny. You could not have picked a worse time to come to Atlanta to avoid the "distractions." The alternative Atlanta music scene was in its heyday with a ton of killer bands we out at the time. Follows this is the sex, drugs and of course rock and roll.

I am glad you guys survived this.

[doug hazelrigg]

Originally Posted by jefft

I remember the intro guitar that James played (and he played very little on the record) on Mayonaise took even longer.

Could you elaborate on this? I always assumed the BIG guitar sound of SP was the result of a dual Corgan and Iha attack. Are you saying Corgan did mots of the guitars on SD? If so, why?

[mobius.media]

What console was the album recorded through and what was it mixed on?

[Companda]

Could you elaborate on this? I always assumed the BIG guitar sound of SP was the result of a dual Corgan and Iha attack. Are you saying Corgan did mots of the guitars on SD? If so, why?

It's well documented that Billy played most of the guitar and bass parts on Siamese Dream. I think he probably didn't trust the others but that's just a combination of extrapolating and reading other peoples thoughts.

I think it is great that Butch and Jeff are on here, however I think it would be great if some people read the sleeves of the CD before asking some questions...There is a quite few answers to some questions such as who played Cello on xyz track etc...


I would like to ask Butch a question about Soma. The little guitar bit after the ebowed guitars and before the distortion is simple but so amazing. If you can remember, did Billy have the whole song including that part written going into the studio or was it something that he wasn't sure of/had a couple of options etc? Sorry to be persnicketty...
Oh and one more...the intro of the same song has a chorusing atmos sort of effect. Is that just guitars or could you expand on what that is?

[jefft]

Originally Posted by mobius.media

What console was the album recorded through and what was it mixed on?

It was recorded on a Neve 8068. The history of that board (at least 1/2 of the board) is that it came from A&R studios in NY and John Lennon recorded on it. I have seen the picture of Lennon behind it.
As far as the mix, Butch would know as I was not there.

[jefft]

Originally Posted by doug hazelrigg

Could you elaborate on this? I always assumed the BIG guitar sound of SP was the result of a dual Corgan and Iha attack. Are you saying Corgan did mots of the guitars on SD? If so, why?

It is pretty well known that Billy played most of the guitars on SD. He played bass on every song but "Luna" I believe.

My opinion as to why, is that Billy knew pretty much what he wanted. In all fairness to James and D'arcy, there is no way to get inside someone else's head and play exactly what they envision. I also don't think that they were as prepared for the record as Billy. Again this is just my opinion. I am sure Butch can elaborate more on this.

We did track all songs as a band with the exception of some "B" sides. Billy would go in after we had the final drum edit and put the bass, guitars and vocals on. I recall we would work on 2 songs at a time and get them to about 80% before tracking more basics.

[Teddy Ray]

Sir(s), what mics/chain were used for the *acoustic* guitars(disarm especially)...any compression on those?

[ButchVig]

Originally Posted by jefft

It was recorded on a Neve 8068. The history of that board (at least 1/2 of the board) is that it came from A&R studios in NY and John Lennon recorded on it. I have seen the picture of Lennon behind it.
As far as the mix, Butch would know as I was not there.

The album was mixed at Rumbo in Los Angeles...the studio owned by The Captain and Tennille (the Captain used to practice fly fishing off the roof)....I think the console was a Neve VR.

That board at Tryclops was really big sounding!

Jeff do you know what happened to it?

[audiogeek]

Originally Posted by ButchVig

Billy is a GREAT guitarist....some of the parts came really fast, others were a struggle: the intro for Today took a LOT of takes to get the perfect sound and feel. Remember, this is before Pro Tools, and that guitar is naked at the start of the song...I think we worked on that 4 bar intro for about 12 hours!!!!

Billy is obviously an immensely talented guitarist, and thats one of the standout songs from this album, but my God that sounds like Hell. Four notes, on four bars, for 12 hours? You deserve every bit of respect that you get.

Thanks for taking the time!

Chris Watkinson

[jefft]

Originally Posted by ButchVig

The album was mixed at Rumbo in Los Angeles...the studio owned by The Captain and Tennille (the Captain used to practice fly fishing off the roof)....I think the console was a Neve VR.

That board at Tryclops was really big sounding!

Jeff do you know what happened to it?

That board was purchased by Daniel Lanois and went to his studio in New Orleans. Not sure if it's still there though.

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by jefft

That board was purchased by Daniel Lanois and went to his studio in New Orleans. Not sure if it's still there though.

That studio isn't even there. :(

I think the Neve was on eBay a few years back.

[stellar]

Hi I was wondering what kind of tape was used on the album and what kind of noise reduction if any?

[fezel]

do you remember what pedals and what EQing you did to the heavy muff guitars in cherub rock and other heavier songs on the album? im very keen to know how you EQ guitar tracks, and what pedals were used to create that timeless sound.

also, did billy play most/all guitar parts in silver****? i notice when they played it live (in the 90's) james and billy had very complimentary tones for the song. (what wha and effects does james use!!)

thanks for the amazing effort you guys are putting in for us all!

[ButchVig]

Originally Posted by Teddy Ray

Sir(s), what mics/chain were used for the *acoustic* guitars(disarm especially)...any compression on those?

I think we used 1176 or dbx160 on the acoustic...

Jeff, didn't you talk about Billy's acoustic earlier? I was not crazy about how it sounded...
it was kind of dark. It sounds good on the album, but we had to eq it a lot.

I also remember Billy wore a bracelet most of the time, and sometimes the mic would pick it up. I can hear it a little bit in "Spaceboy"...almost like percussion.

I can hear it distinctly on Gish in "Daydream".

[jefft]

Originally Posted by stellar

Hi I was wondering what kind of tape was used on the album and what kind of noise reduction if any?

Ampex 456 30ips no NR. I believe the Studer was set up at +6 @185. We went through 40 reels of 2" between "B"Reels and safeties.

[jefft]

Originally Posted by audiogeek

Billy is obviously an immensely talented guitarist, and thats one of the standout songs from this album, but my God that sounds like Hell. Four notes, on four bars, for 12 hours? You deserve every bit of respect that you get.

Thanks for taking the time!

Chris Watkinson

That amp was this old no name combo that Mark Richarsdon owned. I think it was something he put together. It had an old original Jensen 10" or 12" speaker. The speaker was later fried when, in a tired state, Mark hooked the power cable up to the speaker as he was doiung some work on it. When he plugged it in.....zap, speaker gone.

[stellar]

Originally Posted by jefft

Ampex 456 30ips no NR. I believe the Studer was set up at +6 @185. We went through 40 reels of 2" between "B"Reels and safeties.

much thanks!!

[Butcha]

Was Mike Mills playing piano on Soma something that was planned or did he just happen into the session?

Also, can you tell us a little about the intro to Hummer; there is quite an unusual/distorted electric sitar sound. How was that achieved?

[Butcha]

Can you tell us a bit about the track Hello Kitty Kat? It turned up on Pisces Iscariot, but was supposedly originally intended to appear as an album track on Siamese Dream. What happened?

[jefft]

Originally Posted by Butcha

Was Mike Mills playing piano on Soma something that was planned or did he just happen into the session?

Also, can you tell us a little about the intro to Hummer; there is quite an unusual/distorted electric sitar sound. How was that achieved?

Billy or Butch one, planned on Mike playing. The studio had a beautiful sounding Steinway that once was at the Fox Theater in Atlanta. Skynyrd used it on "One More From The Road".
The sitar was a coral sitar that belonged to a musician named Jeff Calder in an Atlanta band called the Swimming Pool Qs. We never recorded the real Sitar Billy brought in. I seem to remember Butch making a Loop in his Akai S-1000 but don't remember the details much. I think Billy played it through an amp to get the distortion.

[jefft]

Originally Posted by Butcha

Can you tell us a bit about the track Hello Kitty Kat? It turned up on Pisces Iscariot, but was supposedly originally intended to appear as an album track on Siamese Dream. What happened?

I'm sure Butch knows but it probably just did not make the cut for the final. It is sometimes difficult to know what goes on and what does not. We tracked 26 songs I believe during that time. 13 made it on SD and 6 are on PI.
One interesting thing is that we cut a "B" side song that was just Billy on Mellotron and Jimmy on drums. I remember asking Billy what the title was and he said "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness". Somewhere on a 2" tape box is that song title years before that actual record came out.

[Butcha]

Originally Posted by jefft

I'm sure Butch knows but it probably just did not make the cut for the final. It is sometimes difficult to know what goes on and what does not. We tracked 26 songs I believe during that time. 13 made it on SD and 6 are on PI.
One interesting thing is that we cut a "B" side song that was just Billy on Mellotron and Jimmy on drums. I remember asking Billy what the title was and he said "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness". Somewhere on a 2" tape box is that song title years before that actual record came out.

Thanks for the responses, Jeff. My reason for asking about Hello Kitty Kat was that (I think) in the liner notes for Pisces Iscariot Billy talked about some problem with the mix being the reason for it not making the cut.

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by jefft

I'm sure Butch knows but it probably just did not make the cut for the final. It is sometimes difficult to know what goes on and what does not. We tracked 26 songs I believe during that time. 13 made it on SD and 6 are on PI.
One interesting thing is that we cut a "B" side song that was just Billy on Mellotron and Jimmy on drums. I remember asking Billy what the title was and he said "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness". Somewhere on a 2" tape box is that song title years before that actual record came out.

Very cool Jeff, I love reading about stuff like this.



I really love SD, (LOL as if I haven't made that clear by now : ) I'm so glad that it wasn't a PT production. It may have cost a lot of money to make and took a lot of hard work but... I notice it has gotten quite a bit more attention than the other threads, I think for good reason. Great artistic/sonic achievements stand the test of time.

[TheLoud1Please]

Originally Posted by ruanddu

Hey Butch,

I absolutely love the delicate yet aggressive snare sound you had going on Siamese Dream. Do you remember which snare(s) Jimmy used?

Thanks!
Josh

Jimmy

4th answer from JC (near the top of the page). He talks about having many snares in the studio, the 1939 Radio King & Pearl 6.5" Chrome Free-Floater used in Today.

[onebadlanding]

Hey Butch,

Thanks for doing this -- such great information everywhere I look.

What did you use to get the reverse gate vocal effect on "Silver****"?

[QuietGiant6ft8]

I was wondering about Billy's voice, in Cherub Rock and Hummer for example. Do you use an effect? Or was that the room or was it overdubs that made his voice sound great?

Thanks for your time,

Brett

[ButchVig]

Originally Posted by QuietGiant6ft8

I was wondering about Billy's voice, in Cherub Rock and Hummer for example. Do you use an effect? Or was that the room or was it overdubs that made his voice sound great?

Thanks for your time,

Brett

There's very little effect on Billy's voice, I think we used a little bit of Eventide harmonizer as a doubler, set to around 30ms.

Alan Moulder might have added a bit of room in the mix, but Billy and I didn't like reverb.

We did dbl his voice and add harmonies when we recorded the song.

[hankdrummer]

is there a story behind the cool sounds at the beginning of Quiet ?

[tomdarude]

Originally Posted by hankdrummer

is there a story behind the cool sounds at the beginning of Quiet ?

+1

I´ve been wondering the same thing for all these years!

[ButchVig]

Originally Posted by hankdrummer

is there a story behind the cool sounds at the beginning of Quiet ?

The intro is 3 or 4 short guitar licks that we ran into the K2500 and processed heavily.

We didn't use midi, so I had to "fly" the bits back to tape pushing the trigger button...it was tricky to get the timing right.