API VPR Alliance

[Tim Farrant]

Not so much a new product, but a new step forward from API regarding the 500 Series modules.

http://www.apiaudio.com/nw_670.html

Cheers
Tim.

[deft_bonz]

very nice. i was awaiting that step. this will push the 500ish format further.

API well done

[sheltersoton]

very cool

[Mattct]

hell

yeah.

[Steamy Williams]

It'll be very interesting to see which manufacturers and products get endorsed, and which don't. I wonder whether it will be based purely on compliance to the standardization and consistency guidelines, or if politics will come in to play.

[kellyd]

Very interesting considering their past policies related to non API 500 series modules. Guess they finally saw the writing on the wall. Why does it take companies so long to figure out what everyone else already knew.

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by Steamy Williams

... or if politics will come in to play.

Let's hope not tutt

[DONNX]

So whats the scoop? Modules not qualified under VPR's list not performing up to 100%?

Anyone?

[API Sez...]

Any manufacturer of a 500 series module that do not appear on the VPR list, do not appear for several possible reasons:

1. The module was submitted to API for VPR compliance and did not pass. This is generally due to either:
a. the current draw of the module exceeds the VPR specification
b. the module does not fit the physical space/alignment specification

We usually make suggestions or offer assistance to the developer in order to help correct the issue and suggest that the manufacturer re-submit the piece. (sometimes they do, sometimes they don't)

2. The 500 series module was not (or has not yet been) submitted to API for compliance testing in order to be included in the VPR Alliance. There seem to be some manufacturers of 500 series modules that don't wish to submit their product for whatever reason.

The potential downside of that decision is that no other members of the VPR Alliance can offer warranty protection or customer assistance to users of non-VPR compliant modules, as the reason for having the VPR alliance in the first place, is and has been - to protect the customer. We try to make the process easy for the manufacturer and specifically prohibit comparison and competition between manufacturers against other members.

That said - the overall number of VPR Alliance members has surprised us, as the program has grown well beyond our expectation for the idea.

[elambo]

Are manufacturers required to pay for the official API certification?

THX is a joke because of this (sorry Mr. Lucas). The top shelf A/V manufacturers don't even bother applying, even though their gear far surpasses the minimum requirements. They merely refuse to pay for it, and their clients couldn't give two sh!ts either way about THX qualification. They believe the claims of the manufacturer.

If API certification is free, it would weed out some political issues.

[API Sez...]

Originally Posted by elambo

Are manufacturers required to pay for the official API certification?

API MAKES NOTHING WITH THIS PROGRAM - it is FREE, FREE, FREE.

The purpose of the VPR Alliance is to protect the CUSTOMER.

The manufacturer is only required to submit a sample of their off-the-line product to confirm that the product conforms to the published specifications provided. We test the product (at our own expense, BTW) for compliance only. We don't critique look, function, performance, sound, design, or layout. Our only interest is to be sure the product is within the design specification of the VPR Alliance, so when someone buys a 500 series product, they all play nice together - no current hogs, no oversized modules, no incorrect pinouts. It's very simple - really.

We fail to understand why everyone making a 500 product doesn't immediately submit a piece for approval - but they don't. We publish the list of approved VPR Alliance members to give the customer the confidence that everyone in the lunchbox or VPR rack will 'get along'.

There is one additional requirement for VPR members. They must sign the application document that states that no one will make direct comparisons or disparaging statements about another 500 series product. It is an Alliance - not a shootout forum - that's what GS is for! You people do the listening and the commenting.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by API Sez...

Our only interest is to be sure the product is within the design specification of the VPR Alliance, so when someone buys a 500 series product, they all play nice together - no current hogs, no oversized modules, no incorrect pinouts. It's very simple - really.

thumbsup

[Coyoteous]

Is the certification just for modules, or for third party hosts (racks/consoles), as well?

[oceanblue]

Lets just say from a design standpoint there have been problemo's with rail voltage and other issues.....we gutted several pieces of equipment last year to see who was doing what, our findings were sometimes laughable...like "what the hell were they thinking". API has been trying this for a couple years if I am not mistaken. We decided to build our own power supply for testing of our gear.
Seems this effort was ramped up when a few new players started pumping out competitive products......so yeah it is political IMO. Heck, who wouldnt want a monopoly?

Originally Posted by DONNX

So whats the scoop? Modules not qualified under VPR's list not performing up to 100%?

Anyone?

[Coyoteous]

What's VPR stand for, anyway? My best guess is Vertical Powered Rack. From looking at the API page and the original press release, it seems this was initially about third party modules being "qualified" for API hosts... in particular, the 500VPR rack, the 500-6B lunch box and maybe that horizontal two-slotter they used to sell.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if modules were not "certified," using them in one of these hosts could void the API host warranty. Now, flash-forward to today: no hosts are listed as VPR certified on the API list. That would be kind of silly given the initial concept. How would a host be compatible with another host?

Also, the two current API hosts plus the 500HR have the VPR Alliance logo on the LunchBox Hero site. Seeing a trend here, I'd imagine the PP MarkVIII will be the only other certified host. So, what does it really mean in a practical sense? I'm guessing not much. It will be interesting to follow this vs. non-VPR modules and hosts.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

Also, the two current API hosts plus the 500HR have the VPR Alliance logo on the LunchBox Hero site. Seeing a trend here, I'd imagine the PP MarkVIII will be the only other certified host. So, what does it really mean in a practical sense? I'm guessing not much. It will be interesting to follow this vs. non-VPR modules and hosts.

API has not allowed third party racks to be eligible for the VPR alliance.

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

API has not allowed third party racks to be eligible for the VPR alliance.

Well then, this gets interestinger and intersetinger (if you find this sort of thing interesting). So, either the LBH certification reference for the 500HR is erroneous, or?

Okay, is it the Vertical Powered Rack Alliance?

[Duardo]

So, either the LBH certification reference for the 500HR is erroneous, or?

No, API is no longer making a two-unit rack so it's not in direct competition with them.

I think it's a fairly safe assumption to make that API doesn't allow (or at least encourage) VPR Alliance members to make their own racks when they offer them the ability to get them at dealer cost. Why else would they point out that membership in the alliance "eliminates the R&D costs and production expenses associated with creating an alternate rack solution"?

I'm curious about the Mark VIII and the new Radial box, though, as they're not straightforward racks...

[once a roadie]

I thought I read somewhere once on GS that Aphex created the 500 series format...any truth in that?

[embrionic]

Originally Posted by grockvt

I thought I read somewhere once on GS that Aphex created the 500 series format...any truth in that?

Yes, at least according to one reliable source. :-)

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Duardo

I'm curious about the Mark VIII and the new Radial box, though, as they're not straightforward racks...

Me too... and I suppose that makes sense about the 500HR, but what about the Avedis R52 (formerly AD) and upcoming Emperical Labs? I speculate that API and PP/AD have a "good" relationship.

Originally Posted by grockvt

I thought I read somewhere once on GS that Aphex created the 500 series format...any truth in that?

I think Aphex had the first lunch box, but certainly API created the format for their consoles.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

Me too... and I suppose that makes sense about the 500HR, but what about the Avedis R52 (formerly AD) and upcoming Emperical Labs? I speculate that API and PP/AD have a "good" relationship.

I'm pretty sure it is not approved... API is not allowing third party racks to be VPR cerified.

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I'm pretty sure it is not approved... API is not allowing third party racks to be VPR cerified.

Fair enough...

embrionic: is listing the 500HR as VPR certified on LBH a mistake?

API Sez...: could you settle this?

As I said in another thread, VPR gets mentioned several times in the PP MKVIII video.

Yes, I probably seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill. But, I've been casually researching 500 series gear for some time. I currently don't have any, although I may start... probably early next year. I've only recently been looking into this issue of possible warranty problems if you go outside the API/VPR brand/alliance. Ultimately, I suppose you'd have to check on a case by case basis before purchasing: "will using X module in Y rack effect the warranty of either product?"

All in all, I think I may shoot for more rack gear (API 5500, for example) which seems to be a better fit for me and avoids these issues altogether... still like to know, though. Obviously, you should be okay with all API/VPR, all BAE, all PP/AD, etc. Okay, my head hurts now.

[Duardo]

As it was explained to me...and I honestly don't recall who explained it...API will not certify products made by any manufacturer who makes a rack or lunchbox that competes directly with their own. That would be at least one reason why no products from companies like BAE and Purple have been certified. Since they stopped making their own two-slot rack, though, those are fine, which is why pieces from companies that make them such as A-Designs, Avedis and Empirical Labs do have VPR-certified modules.

That's what makes me curious about things like the Pete's Place unit and the Radial Workhorse...they've got a little more to them than the current API offerings do...time will tell I suppose.

[embrionic]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I'm pretty sure it is not approved... API is not allowing third party racks to be VPR cerified.

I think Tony is correct.

[embrionic]

Tony is correct Just to be clear, I am not sure it is a matter of "allowing " anything specifically (i know just mincing words...) there simply is no VPR certification for racks. VPR is for modules, as stated on the VPR web page.

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

Fair enough...

embrionic: is listing the 500HR as VPR certified on LBH a mistake?

API Sez...: could you settle this?

As I said in another thread, VPR gets mentioned several times in the PP MKVIII video.

Yes, I probably seem to be making a mountain out of a molehill. But, I've been casually researching 500 series gear for some time. I currently don't have any, although I may start... probably early next year. I've only recently been looking into this issue of possible warranty problems if you go outside the API/VPR brand/alliance. Ultimately, I suppose you'd have to check on a case by case basis before purchasing: "will using X module in Y rack effect the warranty of either product?"

All in all, I think I may shoot for more rack gear (API 5500, for example) which seems to be a better fit for me and avoids these issues altogether... still like to know, though. Obviously, you should be okay with all API/VPR, all BAE, all PP/AD, etc. Okay, my head hurts now.

Over the four days of the AES Show, there were three distinct groups of people asking questions about the Mark VIII.

One of those groups of people had NEVER heard about the 500 series modules.
So we at Pete's Place Audio decided that the best way to cover all of the bases was to say that all of the approved modules for the Mark VIII were part of the VPR Alliance.
We felt in stating that, that people could go to API Audio Products and read all about the companies that take part in the 500 series formats.
Instead of trying to explain what and who were/are involved with the 500 series.