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Waves and Abbey Road Studios present the J37 tape saturation plugin
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#121
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #121
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yep you're right or at least updating some oldies !! for exmple still wondering since S1 imager , why they didn't provide a multiband imager (with a mono freq selction ala brainworx BX control V2) or a more serious metering suite ect ....or effects (Dim D, bosss 201, lex, emt ...)
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#122
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #122
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Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
yep you're right or at least updating some oldies !! for exmple still wondering since S1 imager , why they didn't provide a multiband imager (with a mono freq selction ala brainworx BX control V2) or a more serious metering suite ect ....or effects (Dim D, bosss 201, lex, emt ...)

Hey. Perhaps they could, in the same way they did the CLA76 blue/black, add an A800 to this plug. Now, that would be hot.
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#123
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #123
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Demoing this now and not feeling it. It's a neat effect but feels overdone, like the Kramer Tape. Feels like they are exaggerating the effect for those that might not notice the difference right away. UAD is still king for tape emu for me - though I may get this on a good sale just for experimentation and extreme effect.
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#124
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #124
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Agree in that

Quote:
Originally Posted by javahut View Post
Don't get me wrong. I have no beef with Waves. In fact, I think their WUP is about the only legitimate way a software company like this survives in the not too distant future (that, and Adobe's conversion to the Adobe Cloud exclusively). Although... when customers buy their premium bundle and pay the WUP for what's supposedly all inclusive... and find out later it's not... that's definitely not good.

I didn't and don't have much anger, if any, towards Abbey Road, if they need to drop support for their plug-ins because they're going out of the plug-in business. I realize that's the nature of the software biz and the chance you take when you buy software.

But it's one thing to drop support because you're getting out of the business. It's quite another for me to find that they drop support, then only a couple days later, are asking me if I would be interested in buying their newest plug-in that's just come out... AND IS X64.

And before you try to say that they're not actually making and selling the plug-ins... Abbey Road were never making any of their own plug-ins to begin with. They were only selling them at a premium price after someone else created them, and putting their name on 'em. Which is almost to a T exactly the way they're still working, but decided that they could change a few words around... and voilà!... no longer have to provide support for any of their previous plug-ins. Kinda reminds me of the way Donald Trump files for bankruptcy, but still ends up a billionaire.

Again, I wasn't at all angry, and am not really now. It's just that most people using the plug-ins, including me, would be more than happy to pay a little to get them updated to x64... but Abbey Road has decided after they've initially taken our money, it's really too much trouble for them... and the more likely culprit... it costs too much with not enough return for them to be bothered. And to top it off... they're still gonna make plug-ins with other companies, just as they were before... but they're not gonna support the ones they've already sold... they're not gonna update 'em... they're not even gonna give any one who purchased their previous plug-ins a break on the new plug-ins they're now supporting.

Sorry if this upsets all the 'negativity' police... but I gotta call BS on this one. Not Waves' fault... but they're choosing to work with 'em and advertise with 'em now... so I'm sure they're willing to take the heat (what heat?). For me at least... it's total BS on Abbey Road's part. Even though this is not nearly as expensive to me... this is worse than TC dropping Powercore... because at least TC actually left the plug-in business (for the most part). A couple days later, and Abbey Road apparently has no qualms with letting people know they're still in the biz... just not for their previous Abbey Road customers. BS.

/rant
I'm in the same boat. Just can't understand why Abbey Road plugin dumped every owner of their plugins while we keep seeing them launching product with Native instrument and Waves. For now on, I'll boycott plugins associated with Abbey Road, even how awesome they might sound.
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#125
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #125
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Whoah. Did you guys see all the posts that got deleted by some sort of "Graham" character? For "Off Topic Ranting"? Laying it on a bit thick there, Graham. One of mine that was deleted was asking if Satin had an RTAS version, since, you know, I'd like to compare the various tape sims hitting the market.

Quite a rant, I know. Good lord.
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#126
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 View Post
Demoing this now and not feeling it. It's a neat effect but feels overdone, like the Kramer Tape. Feels like they are exaggerating the effect for those that might not notice the difference right away. UAD is still king for tape emu for me - though I may get this on a good sale just for experimentation and extreme effect.
I agree. The J37 has a (very slight) inherent nasally-mid focus, which for all I know the actual tape machine does. I like the super fluttery effects it offers though. I'd buy it on a sale for those effects I think. For straight up tape sound though, I can't make this thing sound as good as the UAD sims, which is a shame because I hate eating up UAD CPU and would love a native solution.
#127
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LXA View Post
Hey there, been passively following lots of stuff on gearslutz for years, but as an old "tape guy" I really HAD to register for this thread!

Haven't read all the posts, so I don't know if anyone noticed before, but either it's something like a competition "whoever finds the GUI fault gets the plug for free" or the GUI designer made fun of EVERYONE at Waves working on this plugin, because they ALL seem to know nothing about physics at all, not to mention real tape machines.

Otherwise it has to be the most hilarious GUI fault ever made in a plugin. The tape threading in the beautifully designed GUI is complete nonsense! The brown magnetic coated side of the tape is outwards, away from the heads, while the black coated back side is inwards.

Furthermore, the tape is threaded wrong way around capstan and pinch roller! This would just pull tape from the take-up reel and result in a giant tape mess (if the machine wouldn't be turning off because of no tension on the also beautifully designed left handed tension-sensor).

Anyone who ever worked with any kind of open reel tape would notice this at first glance, so I just can't imagine how a BIG company as Waves, obviously paying lots of money to algorithm programmers and GUI designers, have NO ONE pointing out that their tape machine emulation plugin wouldn't even work at all with a tape machine set up like they show it on screen!!!

Cheers, Al
It's not incorrect, that is actually the way this beautiful - and interesting - machine works. The tape threading is correct. You can see the machine in operation in this video (below) ...

As far as the tape colors being 'backwards', it's probably been mentioned that this machine was customized with a Telefunken-friendly reverse reading switch that allowed tapes recorded on that machine to be read. It's probably a cheeky nod to that fact.

#128
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #128
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I'm not sure that I need the spinning reels.
If that takes up more CPU, I'd like to be able to turn it off.
That being said, I'm thinking that the Waves folks have probably researched the various models of the J37.
The only visual difference I see is the dual guide to the left of the head block.

The sound is the most important thing.

As a long time user of tape machines, I'm searching for a way to replicate the tape experience in the digital world.

I've applied the J37 to individual tracks and busses.
I like it.

Very subtle, as I'm using it, but nice color.
LXA
#129
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #129
LXA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slammy80 View Post
It's not incorrect, that is actually the way this beautiful - and interesting - machine works. The tape threading is correct. You can see the machine in operation in this video (below) ...

As far as the tape colors being 'backwards', it's probably been mentioned that this machine was customized with a Telefunken-friendly reverse reading switch that allowed tapes recorded on that machine to be read. It's probably a cheeky nod to that fact.

Yes, threading in video is correct, in plugin graphics it's not. Have a close look at the capstan and pinch roller. The tape has to gu thru from left to right. The graphic designer instead threaded it around the capstan, then from right to left thru capstan and pinch roller and finally around the pinch roller counter clockwise.

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#130
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #130
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#131
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yann Leon View Post
I'm in the same boat. Just can't understand why Abbey Road plugin dumped every owner of their plugins while we keep seeing them launching product with Native instrument and Waves. For now on, I'll boycott plugins associated with Abbey Road, even how awesome they might sound.
well... im with you on that. paid WUP 240$ for Mercury and got what? nothing...
what new plugs we got this year 2013 for free? can recall of anything... at least nothing interesting... unless my brain RAM has some issues

i did the move with the RS56, but dont think im going to do this again...
paying additional 200$ for additional 2 plugs while i paid the same for WUP? a quick calculation will show that it will be cheaper without paying the WUP...
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#132
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slammy80 View Post
It's not incorrect, that is actually the way this beautiful - and interesting - machine works. The tape threading is correct. You can see the machine in operation in this video (below) ...

As far as the tape colors being 'backwards', it's probably been mentioned that this machine was customized with a Telefunken-friendly reverse reading switch that allowed tapes recorded on that machine to be read. It's probably a cheeky nod to that fact.

Why do those with the best gear have the worst songs/singing? The tape machine doesn't make up for a lack of actual talent

mods> feel free to delete my post (pre-emptively, I'm feeling grouchy today)
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#133
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #133
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Actually in 2013 we got the following: Element, which sounds great, Manny Marroquin Signature, which are definitely top notch and unique workhorse plugins and GEQ which is great for live. All this for 200USD makes it quite nice in my opinion.
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#134
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #134
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Waves really need to work on their cell-shaded cartoonish guis, other than that great sounding plug. If I didn't already have Satin and the Nebula tape libraries I would've picked this up
#135
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LXA View Post
Yes, threading in video is correct, in plugin graphics it's not. Have a close look at the capstan and pinch roller. The tape has to gu thru from left to right. The graphic designer instead threaded it around the capstan, then from right to left thru capstan and pinch roller and finally around the pinch roller counter clockwise.

You know that is just funny. I am glad you are so well versed in how the tape should be threaded through this machine, really I am. And yes that oversight should have been caught in the final production. I think the GUI is nice as all the Waves Abbey Road plugs are. Personally though I couldn't care less whether the tape is looped correctly on the GUI or not and I don't really think that is indicative of the quality of the product. The graphics guy, I'm sure, had nothing to do with the code writing or the product modeling. Bottom line is "HOW DOES IT SOUND". If it sounds great then it could just have two buttons and I wouldn't care. I have been working with this just a bit last night and it isn't as subtle as say VTM. It seems to have a bit more thickness to it than Satin, which I do like, and does have a bit of the same sound as the Kramer Tape. I need to spend some more time with it. Only spent about 20 minutes with it last night. So many tape saturation options out today. All of them good for one thing or another.
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#136
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
Actually in 2013 we got the follo Element, which sounds great, Manny Marroquin Signature, which are definitely top notch and unique workhorse plugins and GEQ which is great for live. All this for 200USD makes it quite nice in my opinion.
Got you Jantex, call me stupid (or not) but all of those that you listed, looks for me like a "re-make" of their existing plugins... where there is something new - you will need to pay.
how come REDD was free, but J37 will cost? same as SSL/RS56...
when we purchased Mercury - the idea was to be covered for all of their products, by paying WUP.
#137
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #137
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I understand what you mean. I wished as well for J37 to be included in Mercury, but I am quite satisfied with what I got. And despite liking J37 will not buy it since I own Satin, UAD Studer and Ampex and VTM...and Kramer. Enough of tape...especially as these days Satin is the only one I use and absolutely love.
#138
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homunculus View Post
Waves really need to work on their cell-shaded cartoonish...
Yeah. That's what the client said yesterday when I sent them the mix. The vocalist just could not get past the look of the gui of the tape sat I used - he said he could hear how it looked...
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#139
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homunculus View Post
Waves really need to work on their cell-shaded cartoonish guis, other than that great sounding plug. If I didn't already have Satin and the Nebula tape libraries I would've picked this up
Not a big deal, but as a graphic designer, I agree.

Maybe they are going for a more graphic look and not a photorealistic emulation. Don't know. Anyways....

Is really is a race between these companies. Pretty sure that for me it's first come first serve, Satin advertised that lovely graphic, it caught my eye. Along with reputation, the plugin was bought at first mention. Now here comes Waves... unfortunately the cash is spent.

Anyways, since I have been using Waves coming from UAD, Waves has had some SERIOUS sales, I wouldn't be surprised if this is $50 at some point.
#140
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #140
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OK so I have the Kramer and VTM plugins. Since I'm never buying the UAD dongle that omits me from trying their stuff (although I'm sure they're very good).

As with some of the other Waves plugins, I tested this really trying to be careful with the gain staging. Overall, I kept all the settings very conservative and what I did like was that at least in Live it has a relatively light CPU footprint. I also like how there is no dongle although to be honest I will probably be looking to blend this with my other tape emulations on a per track basis based on how best each one will be suited.

As for Satin, I'm waiting on the Rack Extension version as most of my music originates in Reason. Can't wait for that one!

Much like the Slate plugs (VCC/VTM) and even with Waves NLS this seems to have the desired effect if done conservatively and over a number of tracks. Then you hear the soft edge with an added thickness that to my ears represents that tape sound that I love hearing on my finished songs.

If you put it on just one stereo mix and crank things up it becomes more of an effects box (as do other similar plugins from Waves). At least this is my take on it.

Very happy they made this!

FYI - Waves Universe has this on offer for $128 if you want it now but don't feel like paying the full price!
#141
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noiseflaw View Post
Yeah. That's what the client said yesterday when I sent them the mix. The vocalist just could not get past the look of the gui of the tape sat I used - he said he could hear how it looked...
It's just a simple professional critique, It makes no sense as a company that is doing emulations of real world analog sound and gear would want a cartoonish GUI. I could care less but it is something that I notice and like it or not will affect my preception even if I say that it won't but like I said the plugin sounds great soooo whatever
#142
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homunculus View Post
It's just a simple professional critique, It makes no sense as a company that is doing emulations of real world analog sound and gear would want a cartoonish GUI. I could care less but it is something that I notice and like it or not will affect my preception even if I say that it won't but like I said the plugin sounds great soooo whatever
I dunno but lots of plugins look cartoonish, the UAD plugins look as cartoonish if not more cartoonish than the Waves.

There are some plugins that have an almost photo realistic look to them like some of the Softube stuff and then there are some plugins that don't try and look like any piece of hardware.

Personally I quite like the look of the Waves GUIs
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#143
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowrider View Post
Got you Jantex, call me stupid (or not) but all of those that you listed, looks for me like a "re-make" of their existing plugins... where there is something new - you will need to pay.
how come REDD was free, but J37 will cost? same as SSL/RS56...
when we purchased Mercury - the idea was to be covered for all of their products, by paying WUP.
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#144
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #144
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Guyz let's go back on the sound please ....plugins dev evolve a lot of departement , the GUI guy is not the Algo guy !!!

Waves also work in India (if i recall ) because of low cost of great engineers .....so gui could have be done by guyz that never saw this tape ....Validation process i also one thing ...anyway for real you guyz are splitting hairs !!!! we all know Waves since decades .....with their cons and pros ...and starting stressing around for a detail that nobody cares about exept some that WANT to find some is just a nonsense for me ...let's validate first the essence of the plugin , sound , replica, emulation then , for real if it's good , who cares about the weels ? i would love no weels on this plugins just more compact ....(same thing we said for VTM)

Judging the sound by the gui is just not possible , judging the quality of work cause of the gui CAN be done , but here i must confess it's really a detail ....and the overwall GUI work is SERIOUS ....maybe more than CODE optimisation !
#145
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #145
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Quote:
The tape has to gu thru from left to right. The graphic designer instead threaded it around the capstan, then from right to left thru capstan and pinch roller and finally around the pinch roller counter clockwise.
Good catch
I think the funny thing is no one noticed until LXA, says a lot...
If they had done a 1073 with the wrong knobs there would be endless comments from the first page
(I personally don't have a clue how a tape machine works BTW)
A.
#146
17th October 2013
Old 17th October 2013
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_bt View Post
If they had done a 1073 with the wrong knobs
V EQ !
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#147
18th October 2013
Old 18th October 2013
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scanner View Post
V EQ !
lol label me crazy but i prefer the Veq gui than the orginal Neve knobs and all ...more easy on the settings ...
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#148
18th October 2013
Old 18th October 2013
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
Guyz let's go back on the sound please ....
Man, what a rant fest. I too would just like to see some more input about how the J37 sounds to others.

I downloaded the demo myself and will put it up again the UAD Ampex this weekend, and voice my findings for those interested.


BTW, my main interest in finding a NATIVE solution as good as the UAD Ampex plug is because my investment will soon be a handful of cards that wont fit a new style motherboard on my next future build. I will never buy another pci dongle or pci carriage and just want code.
#149
18th October 2013
Old 18th October 2013
  #149
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Having worked with the UAD tape plug for the longest time, I did have certain sonic expectations for this plug-in.

I tried it on various individual tracks starting with the presets and ran with it from there....tried to get that certain tape sound...low end balls, high end sheen ..etc.. but really I could not find anything particualrly sweet.

Similarly, tried on the master bus, again, starting with the presets and then started tweaking .. I don't know, I just don't find it particularly useful at all. Really liked the UAD tape plug quite a bit.
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#150
18th October 2013
Old 18th October 2013
  #150
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I bought it. I think it sounds really cool. It does not do the whole "glow" around the signal that VTM does, and UAD studer tends to add nice harmonics to the upper frequencies while this one adds a super sweet distortion to the mids and lows. I really like the special effects, it is totally fun and useful. I don't think it sounds particularly like tape but i love what it does. I like it much better than UAD Fatso IMO for "warming" things and adding distortion
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