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#61
27th September 2013
Old 27th September 2013
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
Jeezo, I'm trying really hard to take you seriously, but you're making it extremely difficult. The amount of fanboyism you've got for Cakewalk is putting Mac fans to shame.

Maybe you missed the post made about Cakewalks net sales? I was even shocked. If Gibson tries to further raise the price of Sonar, it will be the end, I'm sure. People are already on edge about the current price increase and unstable future of Cake.
I think whoever owns Cakewalk should go back to the old upgrade price of $99. I like third party plugins, but it would be better business to make them work only in Pro Chan and alow that third party developer to profit from an upgrade plan to a full version. Think of it as a demo version, but instead of a time limit, it would be a DAW limit. Maybe this could help keep the price of Sonar down.
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#62
27th September 2013
Old 27th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
Jeezo, I'm trying really hard to take you seriously, but you're making it extremely difficult. The amount of fanboyism you've got for Cakewalk is putting Mac fans to shame.

Maybe you missed the post made about Cakewalks net sales? I was even shocked. If Gibson tries to further raise the price of Sonar, it will be the end, I'm sure. People are already on edge about the current price increase and unstable future of Cake.
Nope i didn't missed the net sale thing and i even gave my opinon on this saying that unlike old sonar 1-8 version it wasn't a every year version so during 2 years they sold basically plugins ..not sonar !!

anyway i'm not a fan boy for real and have been one really virulent critics on the cakewalk forum (taje a look) but i'm amazed how people are getting made just because "wonderings" and not facts.....

i try to be optimistic and like you guyz i want the best .... i also want to be constructive ...

i do agree with the price ....i also started to be more than critic when they made us pay for X1 expanded to give it in X2 ....basically just some way to make money bewteen long period of no version upgrade realease , witch is also why the price went up ....

so at the end i hope they will choose ....

2 years between versiion but rock solide ones and good price , or low price and every year version , but high price + every years version will be suicide
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#63
27th September 2013
Old 27th September 2013
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post
Jeezo, I'm trying really hard to take you seriously, but you're making it extremely difficult. The amount of fanboyism you've got for Cakewalk is putting Mac fans to shame.

Maybe you missed the post made about Cakewalks net sales? I was even shocked. If Gibson tries to further raise the price of Sonar, it will be the end, I'm sure. People are already on edge about the current price increase and unstable future of Cake.
You should remember that every DAW ("the industry standard" too) in the last year have updated their sw with features already exist by two years in Sonar.
The jeezo arguments are not fanboysm but are facts.
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#64
27th September 2013
Old 27th September 2013
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Right- facts like Sonar being geared towards beginning musicians who don't own any plugins and don't know how to upload their own youtube videos. Jeezo was right on that one.

If it were just THIS release maybe I could understand, but Cake has been doing these kind of updates for YEARS now. The majority of their "new version" bulletpoints are wack plugins and aesthetic updates and that just doesn't work for me personally. How about a better grouping system or take playlist management like Pro Tools? Update the features that matter to people who record music, not for people who don't know which plugin to use.
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#65
27th September 2013
Old 27th September 2013
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Just watched a protools 11video (as i plain to master it finally also) ...and just was shoked when i heard on the new features :offline bounce ....woah !! ...ability to hide metering and customise console modules ...woah ....

What i saying is that implementation by BIG dogs of long time sonar features are a sign that sonar is more than just a bundle and a gui ....

i m fortunate enought to do this for a living and sonar is my tools since the beginning of the comp area ( after pro 24) ...and i never expereinced any limitation as my expertise increased ... For start to mastering ...every pro tools i needed where there ....

So if being aware of what i have between my hands (compared withn what we used to have) makes me a fan boy ....call me so ....

Sonar can be used from top pros to beginner and so the package is done in this optic ....this has been discussed so many time ..... Also when i seee the PT 11 hype /revolution annouced ...versus when we passed from 8.5 to X1 you guyz are not really fair ....the redone the whole thing object oriented ....not a quik lifting ....

So at the end i m confident ...because i learned that in my life ....confidence is not a state of mind ....it s a must ....
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#66
27th September 2013
Old 27th September 2013
  #66
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Fundamentally, if you compare two DAWS, there are some critical things you have to address. First, you have to compare them with absolutely no plug ins. Second, you have to have the exact pan laws set on both systems. This in itself is not always consistent from DAW to DAW.

The minute you add any sound altering elements, there is no chance for a null. I did a comparison of the UAD plugins, one in VST for Sonar X1 and the same plugin in PT 10.3.7 RTAS and could not get the files to null. This led me to the conclusion that the framework for plugins ie. VST platform vs RTAS vs AAX are not always going to use the same math base for calculating. There are features of the VST framework that Cakewalk chose not to implement. If another company does, then that can alter the outcome.

I heard a lot more smearing, some might call it warmth in Sonar and also lack of depth of field under the VST framework. I came to the conclusion that something in Sonar i.e.. it's implementation of VST was not right, at least in X1. What is interesting is that in a recent post by the architect for Sonar, he mentions improvements to the VST implementation which were made in X3, "The entire VST engine was overhauled". I actually think this is highly encouraging and maybe things have improved because let's face it, the sound of the plugins is the sound of the mix. They have more to do with results than any other factor except maybe phasing if the delay compensation engine is not keeping up.
#67
27th September 2013
Old 27th September 2013
  #67
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I started serious recording in 1993 with Cakewalk 2.0 on Win3.1.
Since then I upgraded always to the next version, now X2....
I grew up with cakewalk, so to say...
It very seldem let me down, one of the most stable software I worked with, maybe only topped by RME drivers!
;-)
I hope they survive the gibson deal. I use Samplitude for Mastering but for Composing, Tracking, Mixing: Sonar.

I will upgrade to X3 for sure !
#68
27th September 2013
Old 27th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma_ga View Post
I started serious recording in 1993 with Cakewalk 2.0 on Win3.1.
Since then I upgraded always to the next version, now X2....
I grew up with cakewalk, so to say...
It very seldem let me down, one of the most stable software I worked with, maybe only topped by RME drivers!
;-)
I hope they survive the gibson deal. I use Samplitude for Mastering but for Composing, Tracking, Mixing: Sonar.

I will upgrade to X3 for sure !
Maga + 1 on RME ....

used Samplitude in a friend studio , really liked it (even the docking reminds me sonar) , how do you find it versus Pro tools /sonar ..?


Sorry for the out topic
#69
28th September 2013
Old 28th September 2013
  #69
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it's a bit off topic, but anyway....

Back in the 90ties I used Creamware Triple Dat for Mastering and a combination of FostexD80 and Cakewalk for tracking.....
When Creamware went out of buisness I switched to Sekd Red Roaster (now Samplitude) and then to Samplitude Master for Mastering and CD burning.
Then Samplitude stopped supporting a Master only version and I use Samplitude Pro now for Mastering.
As I was happy with Sonar and use a lot of Midi I don't use Samplitude for tracking and mixing. They added midi functionalitiy later.....
I still see Samplitude as a pure Audio DAW but I like the object oriented workflow.
Sonar is easier to navigate IMO.
If Sonar will die under Gibson (I hope not) I will switch to Samplitude completely, it's very powerful in audio editing.
Never worked with cubase or pro tools.....I am a windows guy, never owned a mac.

There are a lot of powerful recording tools out there nowadays, it's just a matter of taste and personal preferences....I don't miss my cassette tape deck !
;-))
#70
28th September 2013
Old 28th September 2013
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#71
28th September 2013
Old 28th September 2013
  #71
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I just ordered my upgrade to X-3 through Sweetwater. 3 Easy Payments Deal. Will be available for download shortly. Will install this weekend and report back
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#72
28th September 2013
Old 28th September 2013
  #72
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Very bad upgrade in my opinion. The only two significant things is the new comping thing of the layers and the VST3 support.
I don't know why I need VST3 support yet and the Steinberg also can't say either.
We haven't anything new on the notation system also.
Only new fx and instruments to inform that we have a new product.
#73
28th September 2013
Old 28th September 2013
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A great mix is created at the source. Magic happens flying by the seat of your pants.
A compressor is a "voltage turn it downer".
You can determine when it begins to turn it down and when it resumes from turning it down, even how quickly it does it's "turn it down" and by how much it turns it down so you can push more voltage into it to be turned down and then make up for gain lossed from turning it down.Bart Nettle
#74
28th September 2013
Old 28th September 2013
  #74
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downloading.

hoping they tweaked the audio engine's multi-core stuff a bit.

melodyne integration was a smart move (following studio one's footsteps).

i kinda wish cubase would do the same; variaudio is still not as good.

new comping looks good and very similar to the new studio one style of comping.

vst 3 support is huge. for me, it's mainly about proper sidechaining and lower cpu potential.

fractional scrolling is welcome.
#75
28th September 2013
Old 28th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papaki23 View Post
I don't know why I need VST3 support yet and the Steinberg also can't say either.
For example you need it if you want to use multiple MIDI input ports, like in Vienna Instruments Ensemble {very important thing}. This function is not supported in X3 instead of VST3 functionality!
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#76
28th September 2013
Old 28th September 2013
  #76
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We got colors custome (on console view)...yes ...icons + colors ...+ what we already have , cool ....
#77
28th September 2013
Old 28th September 2013
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#78
28th September 2013
Old 28th September 2013
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#79
28th September 2013
Old 28th September 2013
  #79
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Guyz this gobller thing is just what i need now !!



working on a project (full album) with Germans/USA /Japan, UK/Russia/Brazil /Iran/REp Tchek/France Canadien ....rappers ....

This will save me a lot of times !!! i hope this features is on the lower version of sonar ....
#80
29th September 2013
Old 29th September 2013
  #80
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Aaand plugins are crashing X3 like crazy. Predicted this. (UPDATE: Only the "Cakewalk VST Scan" process is crashing, not X3, itself.)

You know, it's finally clear to me who's to blame for this song and dance; the jig many of us who own too many 3rd party plugins go through with each major DAW release: Steinberg.

Steinberg's mistake is not sandboxing the VST spec enough and not making the API and validation / test routines stringent enough.

They should have made the API and validation so brutal, for developers, that it would take a rookie developer 6 months just to get a "hello world" working.

The API should be locked so tight that it's near impossible to crash it. Stuff either works, or it doesn't. When it doesn't, it should fail gracefully, fully and silently -- it should be like that plugin just doesn't exist to it; like water off a duck's back.

But, as it is, I'm sitting here staring at an X3 screen, locked up, with "Scanning GladiatorX64.dll" on my screen (which, btw, Tone2 seems to be an offender, often).

I don't blame Cakewalk or even Tone2, this problem is bigger than that. The VST spec is too brittle. I can only hope that this mythical VST 3.5 spec is better and that the non-protools, non-apple side of the industry can migrate to it as fast as possible (not gonna happen).

/rant
>reboot
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#first-world-problems
#81
29th September 2013
Old 29th September 2013
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
Guyz this gobller thing is just what i need now !!



working on a project (full album) with Germans/USA /Japan, UK/Russia/Brazil /Iran/REp Tchek/France Canadien ....rappers ....

This will save me a lot of times !!! i hope this features is on the lower version of sonar ....
It is a free 6 month account after that your on a plan paid yearly!
A new HDD set up to back up will be cheaper, and the free 5gig account for transfer unless your a working studio and already have a cloud account.

All in all though X3 looks worth the upgrade and it is hard to resist with plenty of new goodies and improvements.
#82
29th September 2013
Old 29th September 2013
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The way i understand it it's 5gb ....free ....and 6 months at 20 gb also then you pay (for the 20gb) ..inperson 5gb is enought as i tend to do songs by songs ....but if i owned a studio , it will be in my schedule
#83
29th September 2013
Old 29th September 2013
  #83
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Quote:
Unlimited Everything
Creativity, without limits.
So...no more: "Audio Effects: More plug-in's are available on your system that can fit on this menu. The extra plug-ins will not be listed until this is resolved."
??


Quote:
Fixes and Enhancements
Pure refinement.
I've abandoned Sonar X_(insert your number here) since they intended not to fix automation off-sync when the track PDC is high due to chained Nebula instances.
Will it fix in the 3rd generation "framework"??
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#84
29th September 2013
Old 29th September 2013
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jalcide View Post
Aaand plugins are crashing X3 like crazy. Predicted this.

You know, it's finally clear to me who's to blame for this song and dance; the jig many of us who own too many 3rd party plugins go through with each major DAW release: Steinberg.



#first-world-problems
Any feedback on this ? VST 3 version of plugins ? i never installed VST 3 ..versions of all my plugins for s simple reason : VST 2 working like a charm ..lol

keep up informed

Thks
#85
29th September 2013
Old 29th September 2013
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
Any feedback on this ? VST 3 version of plugins ? i never installed VST 3 ..versions of all my plugins for s simple reason : VST 2 working like a charm ..lol

keep up informed

Thks
Hey, Jeezo.

Let's see, right now X3 (64-bit, Windows 7) is still crashing on the VST Scan for Gladiator (64/VST2), Arturia Spark Vintage Drums (64/VST2), Arturia Analog Lab (64/VST2) and a couple more.

One encouraging update is that I've noticed it's just the "Cakewalk VST Scan" process that crashes, not the rest of X3; so I'll recant some of what I said (for Sonar at least, other DAWs are not so nice when a VST crashes).

The scan appears to stop on the offender, but it's hard to tell if it keeps going on subsequent re-launches. I need to dig deeper and test what all is working and what isn't.

Some of the crashes no longer happen on re-launch, but I need to see if it's because they've been disabled, or successfully re-validated.

When the VST Scan tooltip does stop, it can still be closed with the (x) in the corner -- a good sign.

Also, the startup and shut down of X3 is so FAST. Faster than X2 and compared to Cubase, it feels almost instantaneous.

The audio engine seems to be about the same in terms of multicore. I have a test project that maxes out a core in X1 and X2 that still appears to max out in X3. Multicore in Sonar is really good, but there is a use-case related to "serial signal paths" (e.g., a ton of live effects on the 2bus) that I bump up against where Cubase and Reaper are able to split off to other free cores.

Aside from the plugin crashes, X3 is looking great. And again, X3 itself, does not appear to crash.
#86
29th September 2013
Old 29th September 2013
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadgad View Post
Is Cakewalk scraping the barrel? Over the years Cakewalk has had many short-lived romances with 3rd-party software developers. And now they’re dating Nomad Factory who have always focused on quantity and not quality. Sonar X3 is supposed to be a professional product. Which professional audio engineers use Nomad Factory plug-ins?
This professional does. Since they are great plugins. Shoot I could mix an album with the stock pro tools plugins :-)
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#87
30th September 2013
Old 30th September 2013
  #87
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Sad to see that some still think gears/plugin make you a pro or not ......

all pro's will do good with what they have ....one of the few thing i learned during all thhose years ....just selected custom install and do like me (and others) install the core app and use your own arsenal if you prefere ...

All i can say is that if i would be a young cat begining music today , i would be in heaven having all those goodies stock !!!

back then i started with that :

#88
30th September 2013
Old 30th September 2013
  #88
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All DAW's do sound different OUT OF THE BOX!

The one thing all the null test lovers forget to mention is that for thier test to be valid, ALL the DAW's being tested bust be set up exactly the same, same bit rates, sample rates, 0db levels, etc etc etc..

Out of the box all DAW's have SOME type of setting that is different from the others....thus people DO hear a difference, no matter what ya say.

Quit slapping people around because you ego needs a little massaging, and go & make some music!
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#89
30th September 2013
Old 30th September 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurf43 View Post
The one thing all the null test lovers forget to mention is that for thier test to be valid, ALL the DAW's being tested bust be set up exactly the same, same bit rates, sample rates, 0db levels, etc etc etc..
I did not forget to say that.
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#90
30th September 2013
Old 30th September 2013
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurf43 View Post
All DAW's do sound different OUT OF THE BOX!
Wow we have another term "All DAW's do sound different OUT OF THE BOX!"
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