NAMM: Behringer X32 RACK Mixer

[depulse]

I just hope Behringer put some line inputs on this one and not just XLR mic inputs. Could be a good "digital patchbay" in the studio.

[Grahamdwc]

OP updated

[RightOnRome]

awesome!

[museAV]

Originally Posted by depulse

I just hope Behringer put some line inputs on this one and not just XLR mic inputs. Could be a good "digital patchbay" in the studio.

You do realize that XLR inputs on mixers are often mic/line inputs and perfectly capable of working with microphones or balanced/unbalanced line level signals?

[depulse]

Originally Posted by museAV

You do realize that XLR inputs on mixers are often mic/line inputs and perfectly capable of working with microphones or balanced/unbalanced line level signals?

Yes, but how much extra cost would combi inputs add?

Now I need to either go and buy 32 Tele-XLR cables wired correctly or buy 32 XLR-tele adaptors.

[DeckardTrinity]

Are those 1/4" inputs / outputs mono or stereo? (TS or TRS)? Even if they are stereo, and including the two RCAs, I only count 30 in?

[Dewdman42]

I can't wait to get this box, it is exactly what i have been waiting for. The only downside I can see as of now is that yes, all the XLR's are mic pre ins. Supposedly they are robust enough to handle hotter line level signals if you can at least provide balanced signals and don't mind going through the pre (I guess?), but the box only has a couple of unbalanced inputs on back. Its still not clear to me whether unbalanced line level signals would work with this XLR inputs or not somehow..or whether DI's would be needed. So far I think not.

I was initially going to consider this for my home studio too, but without more unbalanced inputs on back it will probably not work for that dual purpose.

But this is absolutely going to be the heart of my live gigging setup as soon as they are available. I saw this at NAMM and for me and my NAMM-buddy, this should have won best of show. This box and the entire X32 platform is going to change the industry. We kept walking by other manufactures, one after another with some kind of new small format digital mixer just released; and we kept saying to each other, "those poor guys are all doomed thanks to Behrinnger".

Behrinnger really nailed it with the X32 to begin with, but now that you can network together the X32 with these other products, this really turns into an incredibly powerful platform that you can start small and build it up as you need to. And for a lot of us, having a 3U rack space mixing console with more capabilities then just about any other 16 channel rack mount digital mixer out there, this one sets a new bar.

Honestly, I just cannot wait to have this. I do wish, however, there were better options for handling unbalanced signals so I could use it at home as my main computer interface.

[pianogineer]

Originally Posted by Dewdman42

But this is absolutely going to be the heart of my live gigging setup as soon as they are available. I saw this at NAMM and for me and my NAMM-buddy, this should have won best of show. This box and the entire X32 platform is going to change the industry. We kept walking by other manufactures, one after another with some kind of new small format digital mixer just released; and we kept saying to each other, "those poor guys are all doomed thanks to Behrinnger".

I'm on a similar page as you. I'm currently using a Fireface UFX to do the job (FOH, several unique IEM mixes), and this will certainly blow that away.

However, the more I think about it, the more I may be leaning towards the X32 Producer (rack mounted), as I'm thinking the dedicated control surface may actually be very useful. Currently I use RME's TotalMix to make tweaks, and clicking with a mouse is certainly far more time consuming than pushing a fader around, and given that I'm also playing the gig, this is a big deal.

The iPad app is of course an alternative, but 1) it seems far more limited than the actual XControl software and 2) I use my iPad for charts during the gig.

What's your plan for controlling the rack?

[Dewdman42]

At NAMM we played with the ipad app and it seems to do everything. Its laid out nicely. I have no problem using it and yea that is the plan to use ipad. The Mac/PC software gives a bit more real estate on screen. But we like the idea of being able to tweak the mix from stage or call up snapshots. everyone in our band (except me so far) has an ipad on their mic stand already for set list and lyrics and stupid stuff like that. I don't know if its crippled in some way, but I doubt it is substantially if at all. Seemed to be quite complete.

Honestly I am totally fine with giving up faders. that is one less thing to break or get pushed in the wrong direction. We don't have anyone we can pay to sit there and ride the desk anyway. But if we needed to we could almost certainly hand him an ipad and tell him he can do it from the bar!

[pianogineer]

Originally Posted by Dewdman42

At NAMM we played with the ipad app and it seems to do everything.

Without having an X32, just playing with the iPad app in demo mode, one of the things I couldn't figure out how to do (that I would want to) is control panning of channels on stereo linked busses. We generally do 3-4 unique stereo IEM mixes, so this is important to me. From what I can tell, even on the full X32 control surface and/or full XControl it's a little bit hokey to do this.

However -- I generally completely agree about giving up faders. I think they generally are just a waste of space given the capabilities of an iPad. If I went that route, I'd probably end up needing to get a second iPad dedicated to the mixer, as I've tried to multitask my iPad between mixing and charts during a gig, and it's just a little too cumbersome to be constantly switching back and forth.

[Dewdman42]

I fully expect that certain things like that to not be as proficient on the ipad app or PC software, compared to using the real faders in real time, and by all means get the real faders if you need that kind of real time interaction.

Not entirely sure I'm clear on what you were trying to explain, but with this system's flexibility you might find another way of working. but my understanding is that the brains of the rack are EXACTLY the same as the brains on the X32. The only difference is the number of inputs and outputs and the existence of tactile buttons, knobs and switches to interact with it in real time.

[pianogineer]

Originally Posted by Dewdman42

I fully expect that certain things like that to not be as proficient on the ipad app or PC software, compared to using the real faders in real time, and by all means get the real faders if you need that kind of real time interaction.

Not entirely sure I'm clear on what you were trying to explain, but with this system's flexibility you might find another way of working. but my understanding is that the brains of the rack are EXACTLY the same as the brains on the X32. The only difference is the number of inputs and outputs and the existence of tactile buttons, knobs and switches to interact with it in real time.

Not necessarily trying to explain anything, just excited about the possibilities and trying to flesh out some of the potential workflows.

I'm also guessing that, with the introduction of the X32 Core and Rack, the iPad app may see some significant upgrades between now and ship date. Behringer has also released a very detailed OSC spec, which would potentially allow some brave soul to write a custom iPad app should a particular workflow be lacking on Behringer's app. All around VERY impressed by this release.

[Dewdman42]

I was blown away by Behrinnger's booth at NAMM. It was in the center of the main floor and one of the biggest booths on the main floor by a large margin. Money is flowing through this company now. The quality of their products is definitely stepping up a few notches. Lots of innovation too. I was impressed.

I think you're probably right that with the Rack and Core, the ipad app will become much more critical path, so hopefully they would fine tune it a bit as needed. But you know, if you have a specific need that the ipad doesn't currently meet, then don't count on it, get the faders.

[depulse]

I could see this being used as a central "connector" or hub in the studio, but having no ADAT connections means one is forced to buy the S16 to have more inputs. This brings the Rack almost in line with the price of the X32. Maybe Behringer will out cheaper expansion options like a ADA8200 with AES50 connector? Is the Powerplay 16 P16-I compatible and could be used to expand the input channels or it using another digital format?

[PDC]

Originally Posted by pianogineer

Without having an X32, just playing with the iPad app in demo mode, one of the things I couldn't figure out how to do (that I would want to) is control panning of channels on stereo linked busses. We generally do 3-4 unique stereo IEM mixes, so this is important to me. From what I can tell, even on the full X32 control surface and/or full XControl it's a little bit hokey to do this.

However -- I generally completely agree about giving up faders. I think they generally are just a waste of space given the capabilities of an iPad. If I went that route, I'd probably end up needing to get a second iPad dedicated to the mixer, as I've tried to multitask my iPad between mixing and charts during a gig, and it's just a little too cumbersome to be constantly switching back and forth.

When that iPad crashes, breaks or gets stolen from a venue, you will wish you had faders.

Panning on the X32 is not very well implemented at all.

These fader free boxes will be stellar for fixed installations. When they are available, I will begin speccing them.

BEHRINGER PLEASE READ: The only thing I need software wise is a virtual drive rack with crossover filter selection, slope, parametric EQ, etc, etc...apart from the effect rack processors. If I have to give up effects, that is fine, because in the school market, they aren't essential anyway. YOU GUYS WILL MOP UP WITH THESE BOXES..

[Bratwurst]

Panning on the X32 is not very well implemented at all.

??? The X32 has a dedicated PAN Pot and the iPAD App also. For a quick center adjust, you just have to double top the virtual PAN fader. I don't see there any problems.

Concerning the driverack application:
Every X32 mixer has the possebility to use the six matrix outs as a drive rack! They have Butterworth, Bessel and Linkwitz/Riley filters (6,12,18 and 24dB) + 4band full parametric EQs, output delay and Compressor/Limiter in each matrix out. So you could drive a 3 way PA system directly out of the X32.

Personally I would always prefere to use a dedicated drive rack, but this feature could be very handy, if your driverack or crossover fails during a show.

[PDC]

Try to do LCR panning on the X32 mixer.

For concerts, etc, I agree. Separates are always used. If a console goes down, I still have my drive rack and the PA can still happen with another console. But, for schools and micro church installs where there isn't much of a budget, and about the only thing we would have to do is crossover for a sub and then configure bleacher speakers for games or the theatrical/musical stage at the end, drive rack in the mixer is fine.

Right now I use Symetrix Jupiters, Edges, Solus', etc. These Behringers will have a better GUI and more options for the music/theater folks than what I can offer with the Symetrix plus additional gear.

[roc]

Without combo jacks , it's worthless to a hardware studio .
Who has 16 mics set up in a home studio ?
Only 3 stereo inputs on TRS , thats crazy .

Shame , because I rather like the board but this whole line is geared toward live not the studio IMHO .

I guess somebody will find use for it but for the studio better off with a o1v96i .

Is it really that hard to make the 16 XLR inputs into combo inputs for people with outboard gear .

[PDC]

A pro studio does not need 1/4" jacks for line inputs on the mixer. If you need an instrument input, the instrument is usually plugged into a DI. Many keyboards run with balanced TRS outputs, so all you will need is a TRS to XLR cable for that.

[roc]

Originally Posted by PDC

A pro studio does not need 1/4" jacks for line inputs on the mixer. If you need an instrument input, the instrument is usually plugged into a DI. Many keyboards run with balanced TRS outputs, so all you will need is a TRS to XLR cable for that.

Yea but who wants all of that mess . I would need 16 di's to use it , just put combo jacks on it and be done with it
As far as a pro studio , yea it's a very nice piece but give me a break it's a Behringer , not a Pro Tolls HD ,Neve , SSL , Apogee rig .

[Dewdman42]

Yes. I think Behrinnger should have put combo jacks on there as well, that was kind of a mistake. This gear is clearly going to be perfect for many semi pro level folks that have a lot of outboard gear like keyboards at home. I have only a few keyboards with balanced outs at this time. So combo jacks could have saved me a lot of hassle and no I don't want to get a bunch of DI's either, so that I can run the sound through a transformer, only to then send to a preamp, etc.

All that being said, I think it might be possible to make some inexpensive cable connectors which can take unbalanced signal and feed it into the X32 balanced XLR inputs, but that is kind of a hassle also.

[mpod]

Jesus Christ am i the only one not seeing XLR as a hassle? Like it is so hard to connect XLR to your cable?? Ok they could add combo jacks yes etc. but if you really need that X32 thing then i guess you have money for buying pair of new jacks..

[Googlyman]

MAX 48Khz is a major bummer for the studio IMHO

[ebulb]

realistically combo TRS/XLR jacks would add bugger all to the cost and make the unit much more user friendly, i was really surprised to see they left this out.. This X32 range has been a real interest for me all along but you can see they havent given much consideration to potential cross over applications.. Just a few small changes in design and it could have been adaptable to loads of other scenarios and made it something i would have purchased but as it stands its a good option for live mixing and most other pursuits seem a bit cumbersome i think..

having said that im still impressed by this gear.. its amazing value for money as is all Behringer stuff..

[mpod]

Originally Posted by Googlyman

MAX 48Khz is a major bummer for the studio IMHO

I can't remember where but i have seen somewhere that 96khz could be possible in future update via firmware but effects are going to be at half count because of this (read only 4 effects at 96khz - same as with every other dsp mixer - half sized effect on greater resolution).

Still...i am not worried working at 44khz. not at all. If everything is right then it's right..

Regarding combo jacks i think i agree. This could mean more usage in more scenarios..

Does anyone know price for this thing?

[Dewdman42]

well anyway, can always make or buy special cables, but the other half of the problem with the XLR connectors is not just that they aren't combo, its that they are balanced. What do you do with unbalanced keyboards, guitar modelers, etc.?

[Dewdman42]

Originally Posted by mpod

does anyone know price for this thing?

$1500 msrp

[sylvesterdk]

Originally Posted by Dewdman42

well anyway, can always make or buy special cables, but the other half of the problem with the XLR connectors is not just that they aren't combo, its that they are balanced. What do you do with unbalanced keyboards, guitar modelers, etc.?

I think one of the reasons the unit doesn't have combos, is that this device is primarily aimed at the live scene, not studio. if you have unbalanced keyboards, acoustic guitars and so on, chances are that they are going thru a DI or some other form for preamp. Secondly those combo connectors are more likely to break.

[Dewdman42]

how are combo connectors more likely to break?

Clearly they did over look the project studio market, which is an oversight on their part. As I have said several times, I plan to get one of these for gigging, but while I was originally hoping I could use it at home for my project studio, I don't think it will do for that purpose.