New Black Lion Audio Mods

[Electrode]

Originally Posted by Shaman

That´s what I thought as well
but then it´s equally ridiculous nerd language for marketing purposes.
Who cares for "components" if it sounds good and lasts equally long

History has proven that it is all relative.

Do you think the Blue 192's sound particularly "bad"? I have heard a load of really great sounding records created using those ten year old converters...

...the odd part is, in 2004 Apogee released the 16x series and the 192's were being trashed on forums (including this one) by a lot of people. That was just two years after the Blue 192's were released.

Someone will release a new set of converters that trump the Avid HD, and the cycle continues. People will be jumping on board the BLA mods to keep their Avid HD sounding "great".

Its potentially one giant blackhole of time and money!

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by Electrode

Its potentially one giant blackhole of time and money!

Depends if your a facility where cost/money is no object.
Where the only concern is the best possible sound so even if it sounds 2% better - go for it!

[nathaniellr]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

Depends if your a facility where cost/money is no object.
Where the only concern is the best possible sound so even if it sounds 2% better - go for it!

This is true, and I also believe this can be said for the newer modifications as well.

[JBQIII]

Originally Posted by projektk

I've been considering a UFX in general is what I mean. its just nice that BLA offers a mod for it. I'm not saying the UFX needs to be modded.

Sent from my LG-P925 using Gearslutz App

The life-blood of BLA's existence right there. Someone offers a mod so it must be better than what I have...and thus I need it.

[Blitenz]

Strange thing to post

[nathaniellr]

Originally Posted by Spydog1985

The life-blood of BLA's existence right there. Someone offers a mod so it must be better than what I have...and thus I need it.

Really? Because that isn't what it looks like he wrote at all. Maybe you shouldn't put words into others mouths.

It's astonishing, the more obvious it becomes, that people just seem to be offended over these modifications (more than likely on what they own). The ones treating it like a conspiracy are the ones who should probably be sending their units in.

If you don't have the extra cash, or don't think the juice is worth the squeeze, don't buy it. The last thing people researching these mods want to hear are uninformed opinions by those who've never heard them to begin with.

[BasketCase Audio]

Originally Posted by nathaniellr

Really? Because that isn't what it looks like he wrote at all. Maybe you shouldn't put words into others mouths.

It's astonishing, the more obvious it becomes, that people just seem to be offended over these modifications (more than likely on what they own). The ones treating it like a conspiracy are the ones who should probably be sending their units in.

If you don't have the extra cash, or don't think the juice is worth the squeeze, don't buy it. The last thing people researching these mods want to hear are uninformed opinions by those who've never heard them to begin with.

I don't think his post is that off base.

The whole "mod" service is based on the preconcieved idea that modding it will improve the sound. Its a very powerful marketing tool.

For example, take a look at the BLA marketing itself. The 002R pages has "Who Else Wants “The Sound” Of A $20,000 High Definition System For A Fraction Of The Cost?" branded across the top of the page...

...then compare it to the AVID HD page. There isn't a mention of improved overall audio quality. Only very carefully worded phrases like "chosen for their sonic quality", or "improved low level resolution".

I have quite a bit of experience modding gear. Its the one aspect of audio where it really is easier to polish a turd. Its easy to take a 10 year old piece of gear and update it with modern components to make it sound drastically better. Taking a 6 month old piece of gear that already sounds absolutely amazing to begin with and improving it with similar gains in sound is a whole 'nother story...

[Isle of Weight]

Originally Posted by nathaniellr

Really? Because that isn't what it looks like he wrote at all. Maybe you shouldn't put words into others mouths.

It's astonishing, the more obvious it becomes, that people just seem to be offended over these modifications (more than likely on what they own). The ones treating it like a conspiracy are the ones who should probably be sending their units in.

If you don't have the extra cash, or don't think the juice is worth the squeeze, don't buy it. The last thing people researching these mods want to hear are uninformed opinions by those who've never heard them to begin with.

I agree

[OralnHardly]

Originally Posted by mirrorboy

Actually, I've always kinda liked BLA even though I don't own any of their gear or mods....but this certainly rubs me the wrong way.

Slimy, I guess.


Scott

Originally Posted by nathaniellr

Really? Because that isn't what it looks like he wrote at all. Maybe you shouldn't put words into others mouths.

It's astonishing, the more obvious it becomes, that people just seem to be offended over these modifications (more than likely on what they own). The ones treating it like a conspiracy are the ones who should probably be sending their units in.

If you don't have the extra cash, or don't think the juice is worth the squeeze, don't buy it. The last thing people researching these mods want to hear are uninformed opinions by those who've never heard them to begin with.

I have a friend who got a modded UFX from BLA. :face palm:

it sounds like a UFX. :face palm:


I, like many others here have used all kinds of gear. I OWN there MC 2. When used with a MOTU is makes a huge difference...when used with any converter that is decent to good to really good...IT DOESN'T DO A DAMN THING EXCEPT SMEAR MIDRANGE DETAIL.

Also the AD on the HDI/O is light years better than the 192's..to me the DA is the weakest link and it is still good....so I'm gonna go ahead and call bullsheeite...because I know their gear and I know Avid gear.

This mod is expensive!...I'd have to hear the two back to back in the same session printing OTB mix back into the same session. And I don't really feel that compelled to do that...does anyone else with an HDI/O feel that it sucks and needs a bunch of mods for thousands of dollars?? really...what the heck are they thinking???

[nathaniellr]

Originally Posted by BasketCase Audio

I don't think his post is that off base.

The whole "mod" service is based on the preconcieved idea that modding it will improve the sound. Its a very powerful marketing tool.

For example, take a look at the BLA marketing itself. The 002R pages has "Who Else Wants “The Sound” Of A $20,000 High Definition System For A Fraction Of The Cost?" branded across the top of the page...

...then compare it to the AVID HD page. There isn't a mention of improved overall audio quality. Only very carefully worded phrases like "chosen for their sonic quality", or "improved low level resolution".

I have quite a bit of experience modding gear. Its the one aspect of audio where it really is easier to polish a turd. Its easy to take a 10 year old piece of gear and update it with modern components to make it sound drastically better. Taking a 6 month old piece of gear that already sounds absolutely amazing to begin with and improving it with similar gains in sound is a whole 'nother story...

They market it as something that improves the sound, because that's what they're selling. I'm not sure why you have to make it sound so complicated. How much of an improvement, or how different is always going to be a matter of personal taste. Over-hyped marketing, and marketing in general is just something you learn to deal with and see past as a consumer. BLA isn't the only one using it, and they are after all, a business. Albeit, the header for the 002 and 003 is rather cheesy, but I've seen worse.

I still don't get who this helps. You have experience modding gear. Okay... do you have experience listening to Black Lion Audio modded gear? This is after all what some of us are looking for. Not interpretations from their site as that doesn't help at all. Most of us have at least been to the site and are capable of reading it.

[passmore]

Originally Posted by nathaniellr

Over-hyped marketing, and marketing in general is just something you learn to deal with t.

I have never bought anything based on "overhyped marketing"
Personal experience a trusted friends recommendations are the only things I really on on a regular basis.
With that said I have personal experience with BLA mods and have had colleagues recommendations as well.
BLA mods are the real deal and totally worth it.

[BasketCase Audio]

Originally Posted by nathaniellr

They market it as something that improves the sound, because that's what they're selling. I'm not sure why you have to make it sound so complicated. How much of an improvement, or how different is always going to be a matter of personal taste. Over-hyped marketing, and marketing in general is just something you learn to deal with and see past as a consumer. BLA isn't the only one using it, and they are after all, a business. Albeit, the header for the 002 and 003 is rather cheesy, but I've seen worse.

I still don't get who this helps. You have experience modding gear. Okay... do you have experience listening to Black Lion Audio modded gear? This is after all what some of us are looking for. Not interpretations from their site as that doesn't help at all. Most of us have at least been to the site and are capable of reading it.

I am not sure why you are getting your knickers in a knot. Why do you read Spydog1985's comment as derogatory? I don't. The majority of marketing is actually (for a lack of a better term) "bashing" other manufacturers products to rock the boat. To put the thought of inadequacy in peoples minds. That is their business. Look at their lengthy description of how "inferior" the AVID HD is... That is what will sell modifaction. You can't sell a mod without it.

Originally Posted by Spydog1985

The life-blood of BLA's existence right there. Someone offers a mod so it must be better than what I have...and thus I need it.

That is pretty much what Spydog1985 has said, is it not? And it is successful marketing it appears, if you have someone considering purchasing a piece of gear because it can be modded...

I don't suppose you have a vested interest in BLA? Perhaps own gear modded by them? You seem to be getting rather defensive. I feel the urge to remind you that you really aren't obliged to reply to anyones post that you disagree with... but people on this forum are permitted to talk about, question and converse about all aspects of audio including a company and its marketing. I have used several pieces of BLA gear. Some sounds great! ...some I wasn't impressed with. Unfortunately the products that sounded great aren't ones I would recommend due to obscolence.

The most ironic thing about your post is... I'm not allowed to post my interpretation of marketing about an audio product... but I am allowed to post my interpretation of a product that is so subjective and individual that is perhaps only applies to me... and potentially no perspective buyers. Your points are rather paradoxical aren't they? We may as well slap a "closed" sign on gearslutz because its all personal interpretation.

[BasketCase Audio]

Originally Posted by passmore

I have never bought anything based on "overhyped marketing"
Personal experience a trusted friends recommendations are the only things I really on on a regular basis.
With that said I have personal experience with BLA mods and have had colleagues recommendations as well.
BLA mods are the real deal and totally worth it.

So what does the AVID HD mod sound like?

[nathaniellr]

Originally Posted by BasketCase Audio

I am not sure why you are getting your knickers in a knot. Why do you read Spydog1985's comment as derogatory? I don't. The majority of marketing is actually (for a lack of a better term) "bashing" other manufacturers products to rock the boat. To put the thought of inadequacy in peoples minds. That is their business. Look at their lengthy description of how "inferior" the AVID HD is... That is what will sell modifaction. You can't sell a mod without it.



That is pretty much what Spydog1985 has said, is it not? And it is successful marketing it appears, if you have someone considering purchasing a piece of gear because it can be modded...

I don't suppose you have a vested interest in BLA? Perhaps own gear modded by them? You seem to be getting rather defensive. I feel the urge to remind you that you really aren't obliged to reply to anyones post that you disagree with... but people on this forum are permitted to talk about, question and converse about all aspects of audio including a company and its marketing. I have used several pieces of BLA gear. Some sounds great! ...some I wasn't impressed with. Unfortunately the products that sounded great aren't ones I would recommend due to obscolence.

The most ironic thing about your post is... I'm not allowed to post my interpretation of marketing about an audio product... but I am allowed to post my interpretation of a product that is so subjective and individual that is perhaps only applies to me... and potentially no perspective buyers. Your points are rather paradoxical aren't they? We may as well slap a "closed" sign on gearslutz because its all personal interpretation.

Spydog was making an example out of projektkt, which had nothing to do with what he said. He's not purchasing the interface because it can be modded, he just likes the option that a modification is available in the future. Whether that even influences his decision to purchase it doesn't really matter. RME and Black Lion Audio are not the same company. You're pretty quick with assumptions and far fetched accusations to be worrying about the marketing of a smaller company.

The descriptions on their pages address what they believe are the problematic areas, and how they treat them. They're just explaining what they do. Would you rather the page just say, "this sounds super duper awesome good, buy now!"? And have you actually read what they say? While they don't blatantly mention any audio fidelity/quality increase, they definitely aren't calling the unit a piece of poo either. I can't see any owners of an avid i/o feeling like their hardware is inferior after reading that.

You certainly are allowed to interpret things the way you want, and most certainly allowed to post whatever you want. But you're zeroing in on descriptions on their website, which by now, most of us hoarding audio gear have learned to take with a grain of salt. It's just not that big of a deal, but you definitely make it sound that way. You could elaborate on the mods you've heard. Sure it's still subjective, but I think most would agree hearing your experience with the company as far as customer support, and the overall turnout and your satisfaction with the end result somehow seems more appealing in the long run. I hardly see it as contradicting when real world scenarios will more than likely be favored. I mean, you can analyze those words all day but it's really not going to get you anywhere.

I don't need to be affiliated with Black Lion Audio to point out that complaining about the way they market their products is like beating a dead horse. They didn't give birth to these business strategies, they're just simply trying to hang.

Aside from online samples, I have never had a BLA unit infront of me. So it is from my perspective to naturally digress when I see people negatively focusing on something that really has nothing to do with the common goal a lot of us have (where our money is going), and that is -- How it sounds.

[nathaniellr]

Originally Posted by passmore

I have never bought anything based on "overhyped marketing"
Personal experience a trusted friends recommendations are the only things I really on on a regular basis.
With that said I have personal experience with BLA mods and have had colleagues recommendations as well.
BLA mods are the real deal and totally worth it.

I agree. When it comes down to it, this is the reality most of us face. Personal experiences are always a plus.

[BasketCase Audio]

Originally Posted by nathaniellr

Spydog was making an example out of projektkt, which had nothing to do with what he said. He's not purchasing the interface because it can be modded, he just likes the option that a modification is available in the future. Whether that even influences his decision to purchase it doesn't really matter. RME and Black Lion Audio are not the same company. You're pretty quick with assumptions and far fetched accusations to be worrying about the marketing of a smaller company.

The descriptions on their pages address what they believe are the problematic areas, and how they treat them. They're just explaining what they do. Would you rather the page just say, "this sounds super duper awesome good, buy now!"? And have you actually read what they say? While they don't blatantly mention any audio fidelity/quality increase, they definitely aren't calling the unit a piece of poo either. I can't see any owners of an avid i/o feeling like their hardware is inferior after reading that.

You certainly are allowed to interpret things the way you want, and most certainly allowed to post whatever you want. But you're zeroing in on descriptions on their website, which by now, most of us hoarding audio gear have learned to take with a grain of salt. It's just not that big of a deal, but you definitely make it sound that way. You could elaborate on the mods you've heard. Sure it's still subjective, but I think most would agree hearing your experience with the company as far as customer support, and the overall turnout and your satisfaction with the end result somehow seems more appealing in the long run. I hardly see it as contradicting when real world scenarios will more than likely be favored. I mean, you can analyze those words all day but it's really not going to get you anywhere.

I don't need to be affiliated with Black Lion Audio to point out that complaining about the way they market their products is like beating a dead horse. They didn't give birth to these business strategies, they're just simply trying to hang.

Aside from online samples, I have never had a BLA unit infront of me. So it is from my perspective to naturally digress when I see people negatively focusing on something that really has nothing to do with the common goal a lot of us have (where our money is going), and that is -- How it sounds.

Who has complained about their marketing? There is nothing wrong with it. It creates doubt, increase need with the aim of selling the mods. That is what Spydog1985 has said about BLA... Not another forum member. He has made a post about a simple observation about their marketing that you seem intent on 'zeroing in on'.

Deep breath. Relax. Like I said, you could always just ignore it.

I have used the 002r & 003r with BLA mods. Both certainly sounded fantastic! $20,000 converter fantastic, probably not. But great none the less. If it were 3 years ago I would consider recommending them as protools still required digidesign hardware. Now I would suggest just ditching it and buying something that is great straight off the bat.

I have also used the BLA eq. It was nice. Good value for money, but not my thing. Perhaps I had too higher expectations of it when I slapped in the rack with a crangsong ibis and api eq's

[CPhoenix]

BLA mods sure do get picked apart on this site. Geez.

I've done a lot of research on these units, as I strive for improved sound in my current setup. And if you are able to comb through the criticisms and well-educated people who have no experience whatsoever with BLA mods or products, you start to find actual BLA customers who use their products and have gotten their mods.

Based on my 1-2 years of research and reading everything I can about them... the BLA mods are of good/great value. I have read too many testimonials about their mods and their own products. I have spoken to people who have ditched their Big Ben as it became unnecessary b/c the new Sparrow mkII's clock is just as good, if not better. I have read reviews from people who do shootouts w/ the Autuer and other pre-amps twice it's price and the Auteur not only keeps up with them, but may surpass depending on your taste.

I've read too many reviews about 002 mods. And whereas it might not be the $20k studio sound.... it can surely be considered a $5-10k studio sound... and that's not bad lol.

It's very difficult to find a review from a user where they got the mod and didn't feel it was a very serious improvement.. if not drastic. Some note subtle improvements... but hoenstly... those subtle improvements are all too important when mixing (as you all should freakin know). I personally will spend 2 hours working on a subtle improvement in my mix. I've spent 2 full days working on my last mix trying to get the balance right between the drum/bass booming and having bite vs. the clarity and integrity of the song.... and I can't get it right b/c although my interface has great DA converters (Echo Audiofire4)... I still just can't quite hear what I need to hear to make the right decisions. it takes entirely too long. The only complaints you really find about BLA mods are the occasional "my interface now has a problem after you touched it". But these usually date back a few years.. so i'm assuming they've worked out a lot of kinks.

The question isn't always whether a unit "needs" a mod... but moreso "I already have this unit... can I take it up a notch without re-selling it and buying the next best thing?". That's the whole premise. You have something... you're not satisfied... you want a little more. It's okay to say those minor improvements aren't worth it.... but that's your perogative. Let's not bash a company and strongly convince people it's a rip-off... especially if you have no direct experience w/ a BLA mod.

Think about it from a more logical approach. These units are produced by companies who are on a tight budget to make their bottom line. So of course certain areas are skimped on. They're perogative isn't to make something that sounds the best (until you start talkin about a freakin Orpheus or something.) The company would rather make money than make soemthing that sounds as good as it possibly can. That's where the BLA mods come in. They clean up whatever shortcoming were left.

I don't understand where all of this negativity comes from.

[CPhoenix]

PS.... I can't wait to get my RME UFX w/ a BLA mod.

I highly doubt BLA would still be modding gear if they didn't provide a good service. Bad reputations and Lawsuits would have already torn them to shreads.

[VIIX]

This is my custom made Signature 002r. I haven't heard anything better except for the Apogee Symphony I/O. That soundcard is killer.

[baslotto]

Originally Posted by VIIX

This is my custom made Signature 002r. I haven't heard anything better except for the Apogee Symphony I/O. That soundcard is killer.

+1 on this one! I agree 100%

BTW where did you get that killer faceplate???? I want one too!!!!!!!

[VIIX]

Originally Posted by baslotto

+1 on this one! I agree 100%

BTW where did you get that killer faceplate???? I want one too!!!!!!!

Call BLA and ask for Daniel.

[Piedpiper]

There is no piece of gear at any price that can't be improved... there is no piece of gear that isn't designed to a budget. There are many resistors, capacitors, chips, transformers, and design standards that could both easily send the cost of a unit through the roof, AND improve the sound noticeably. Thinking differently is simply conjecture based on lack of experience and the bias of wanting to think that what they can afford is "good enough". Where a given person draws the line on what they are willing to pay is their business. There is no "good enough". ever. everything is good enough and nothing is good enough. draw your own line, for your own reasons; but don't try to pretend that your choice is somehow the objective truth.

IME, whether you want to pay for it or not, BLA does good intelligent work, both in the mods they do, and the way they represent them. They have no interest in deceiving anyone. Why would they. It's bad business and it's too much work.

[CPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Piedpiper

There is no piece of gear at any price that can't be improved... there is no piece of gear that isn't designed to a budget. There are many resistors, capacitors, chips, transformers, and design standards that could both easily send the cost of a unit through the roof, AND improve the sound noticeably. Thinking differently is simply conjecture based on lack of experience and the bias of wanting to think that what they can afford is "good enough". Where a given person draws the line on what they are willing to pay is their business. There is no "good enough". ever. everything is good enough and nothing is good enough. draw your own line, for your own reasons; but don't try to pretend that your choice is somehow the objective truth.

IME, whether you want to pay for it or not, BLA does good intelligent work, both in the mods they do, and the way they represent them. They have no interest in deceiving anyone. Why would they. It's bad business and it's too much work.

100% agree.

Summed it up very nicely.

[mykhal c]

Originally Posted by Piedpiper

There is no piece of gear at any price that can't be improved... there is no piece of gear that isn't designed to a budget. There are many resistors, capacitors, chips, transformers, and design standards that could both easily send the cost of a unit through the roof, AND improve the sound noticeably. Thinking differently is simply conjecture based on lack of experience and the bias of wanting to think that what they can afford is "good enough". Where a given person draws the line on what they are willing to pay is their business. There is no "good enough". ever. everything is good enough and nothing is good enough. draw your own line, for your own reasons; but don't try to pretend that your choice is somehow the objective truth.

IME, whether you want to pay for it or not, BLA does good intelligent work, both in the mods they do, and the way they represent them. They have no interest in deceiving anyone. Why would they. It's bad business and it's too much work.

tasty

[Tesla Coil]

Originally Posted by Piedpiper

There is no piece of gear at any price that can't be improved... there is no piece of gear that isn't designed to a budget. There are many resistors, capacitors, chips, transformers, and design standards that could both easily send the cost of a unit through the roof, AND improve the sound noticeably. Thinking differently is simply conjecture based on lack of experience and the bias of wanting to think that what they can afford is "good enough". Where a given person draws the line on what they are willing to pay is their business. There is no "good enough". ever. everything is good enough and nothing is good enough. draw your own line, for your own reasons; but don't try to pretend that your choice is somehow the objective truth.

IME, whether you want to pay for it or not, BLA does good intelligent work, both in the mods they do, and the way they represent them. They have no interest in deceiving anyone. Why would they. It's bad business and it's too much work.

So well put that its worth 3 reposts.

[ksound]

What puts me off any of these kinds of mods is the fact that they are not guaranteed to sound better, but they'll most likely sound different and that might not be what I want depending on what I think of the modified sound.

I've had guitar amps modified in the past to "sound better" in various described ways and found myself preferring the stock design and having the mod reverted, which is generally quite easy for a tech to do on a hand-wired circuit.

It's more risky with one of these converter/interface mods as I wonder if they're easily reversible if at all.

Also if I was looking for a used converter or interface I would steer clear of a modded one. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one either.

[Piedpiper]

Originally Posted by ksound

What puts me off any of these kinds of mods is the fact that they are not guaranteed to sound better, but they'll most likely sound different and that might not be what I want depending on what I think of the modified sound.

I've had guitar amps modified in the past to "sound better" in various described ways and found myself preferring the stock design and having the mod reverted, which is generally quite easy for a tech to do on a hand-wired circuit.

It's more risky with one of these converter/interface mods as I wonder if they're easily reversible if at all.

Also if I was looking for a used converter or interface I would steer clear of a modded one. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one either.

There is no relationship between a guitar amp which has virtually zero aspirations to fidelity to source and a recording device that does. The onas is on the perspective buyer to do the research and make the decision to purchase a mod or not. The modifications in question are way way more extensive than would allow for a practical reversal. If the ad copy, testimonials and sound files aren't convincing... end of story...

[EMR Audio]

Would be nice to hear some feedback from HD mod users (if there are any yet).

[T_R_S]

I ordered mine Aug 5th - I am still waiting for it to be shipped to me.

[EMR Audio]

That means business might be booming for them.