UA Apollo First Look (user review)
#4501
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4501
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I love the DBox summing.. It's as good as it gets, you don't have to use a comp on the way out if you don't have one, the Apollo A/D is def more than good, even without a dedicated a/d.
NO IMAGE COLLAPSE HERE!!

Imaging has only improved with my experience.
I own a few external compressors but I let my mastering engineer take care of it MOST of the time. I'm good at mixing with compressing on instruments and individual tracks but compressing the whole LR out, I'M OUT. And if I do use a Comp it's very light compression.
The DBox is stellar!!!!! Won't be selling ANY time soon!! It's that good....!
But WE ALL have opinions.
#4502
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboycoalminer View Post
Good job on this tune, BB. Is that your room I'm hearing on the early reflections or an effect? Either way sounds great. Your eq is set good on both. Might try and squeeze the vocal a bit more or better still, put a limiter on the end of the strip to even it a bit. But I just wrote that cause I can't find anything else to pick on. Great work.
Cowboy, thank you for feedback. It is much appreciated. The early reflections come from Softtube TSAR-1, which is more than decent! maybe worth considering for all you reverb junkies out here...

http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/au2c...l=0&autoplay=1
#4503
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4503
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues Bird View Post
Cowboy, thank you for feedback. It is much appreciated. The early reflections come from Softtube TSAR-1, which is more than decent! maybe worth considering for all you reverb junkies out here...

http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/au2c...l=0&autoplay=1
Yup!! The TSAR series is great...
#4504
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4504
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@drmusic

I am getting confused about the dbox, I thought people used it to replace the da on the apollo, but routed back through the apollo but not through its main outs to final mix to bypass the apollo's da ?

kcat
#4505
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4505
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@ MJB- Thanks, The Monster Power supply was for my guitar rig purchased years ago, before I bought my powered pedal board. I agree with having something a little better powering my recording rig.

@ DR MUSIC- I love the D-Box, which I purchased for my ITB setup long before the Apollo arrival. I just decided to incorporate it with the Apollo after viewing the puremix video that fab posted. I just got my 75 ohm cable, so I can use this analog/digital setup. I haven't done any comparisons between the two yet. I just got the cable. I sold my Lavry black D/A 10 when I got the DBox, however I liked the Lavry better as far as width and depth of field, however the dbox has so much more to offer and the monitoring is good enough to do great mixes. The lavry is just a little better IMO. Dangerous is an awesome company to deal with. Just call them for any questions you may have. They are very helpful.

@ Besottedly- I purchased my cable at www.redco.com I use redco for all my cable needs. They have very reasonable prices and you can have them build whatever cable you want. I called Dangerous Audio to ask about what cable would be sufficient, then called redco. Also, Pro-co makes a cable designed for this very purpose which marries the Apollo and Dbox. Sweetwater music has them.

@ GEBO MUSIC- Haven't got that far yet, just got my Apollo and cables haven't arrived yet. I did use the Soundcraft Ghost for summing from the D-box and it made a huge difference, not sure about the Apollo yet, but I am sure it will be much better if you are using outboard.

What Pavaler said!









Sent from my DROID RAZR
#4506
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4506
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Sorry it took me so long to get back to you guys, busy busy busy!!!

Sent from my DROID RAZR
#4507
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kcatthedog View Post
I am getting confused about the dbox, I thought people used it to replace the da on the apollo, but routed back through the apollo but not through its main outs to final mix to bypass the apollo's da ?

kcat
Check this out:

Universal Audio Apollo & D-Box Combo (Console, Monitoring, Real time Processing, Analog Summing) - YouTube

So it is:

1. latency free monitoring while recording: the signals you record stay analog from the inputs of the Apollo to the analog (main- )outs from the Apollo into the analog in's of the dBox and out to the monitors. If you have already recorded signals in your DAW (let say drums for instance) and play those back while recording those signals get transformed of course through the Apollos D/A and also go through the main (analog) outs into the dBox and from there to the monitors.

2. monitoring while playing back your tracks in the DAW: you sent your signals through the 8 outs of the Apollo (and thus through the Apollos D/A converters) into the summing of the dBox. From the dBox the signal can ideally go though an analog summing chain (stereo Comp and/ or stereo EQ) and back into the Apollo (and through the its A/D converters - this the point where a superior A/D converter like the BURL B2 comes in quite handy...). From there the signal goes through your DAW and out digitally through the spdif connector into the dBox again. There finally it gets converted through the dBox' superior converters and voila! you can listen enchantedly to your music!
MJB
#4508
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4508
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I remember the big selling point of the Apollo when it first came out was the ability to print tracks. Now that I'm more familiar with in the box recording, I don't wanna print nuthin' ! I thought the Duo would be fine if I printed, but I was wrong, aarrgghh.. Every little detail shifts as I make small edits, so it's only at the last minute that I know if all is right with the levels, verbs, compression, etc.
#4509
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4509
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Limitations

@mjb

Its not the apollo its your imac again i lived with all that for 2 years.

Computers/software are not like hardware boxes that work or shut off. Your computer is being pushed to its limits and instead of failing outright, your data gets compromised by the gremlins.

Since getting the i7 i have been running bigger session with only one problem, recently my bass track has dissappeared from my session twice, but everything else stable.

Check your dsp usage like I suggested that will confirm or not what I am saying.

Kcat
MJB
#4510
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4510
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Will do, thanks bro.
#4511
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4511
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The fact that you can't bus your DAW stems to the "console input channels" for real time mixing is a bummer. Kills this for VSTi use unless you pull a hardware loop using analog in and outs or digital.

I can see this being used as a summing mixer setup with another converter for a very basic monitor control and cues.

With "ok" mic amps and "ok" ad/da ... The printing of "effected" tracks kind of limits you when mixing. This is good for cue's.

It's like a satellite with a front end in a way. The output being used for cue's etc
MJB
#4512
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4512
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I'm a little behind some of the more experienced members here in some of the signal path/engineering aspects, but I think I follow you, and that sure is an interesting insight trashman. Perhaps I'd trust myself printing effects if I was in a really pro studio, with top of the line monitors, but I don't like to work that way.
#4513
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4513
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Just to be clear:

The only thing you can "real-time" monitor are the physical inputs. You cannot assign DAW bus to the console channels, just the main bus. So, for VSTi you have to loop it.

The inputs are useful for cue mixes for sure ... But why print effects?

I think it's interesting/useful as a digital summing mixer because you can load up different channels with different colors.

Just seems like a lot of money to cue up UA plugs. But then again, if you don't have a decent converter and want a powerful UAD mixing setup the free plug promotion makes the Apollo a great package.

I have an RME digiface and babyface , so the Apollo would be a great front end in standalone mode perhaps. The power of Totalmix and Totalmix FX is hard to live without once you've used it.
#4514
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4514
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OS updates

@trashman,

agreed had an rme b4 my apollo, UA has done some surveys over the last year on new features so we are all keeping fingers crossed that first major OS update will increase routing flexibility

personally I don't track with plugs, just put things in my daw when mixing

I use SSD drums(midi to usb to computer) which console doesn't see, so another reason to just put stuff in my daw and see everything at once

at the price point if you are starting from scratch even a year ago apollo was a very good deal

now with a $1,000 of plugs given to you and other freebies its even better but the OS needs some tweaking !

kcat
#4515
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4515
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@kcat

The $1k in plugs (and very good plugs: neve package, studer and lexicon ) makes the Apollo an incredible value.
The satellite plus the free plugs cost the same as the Apollo Quad. Therefore, you get the entire ad/da for free ;D

Hopefully, UA does a major update.
#4516
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4516
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Hello,

I am a PT 10 user with mbox3. I use and record a lot of hardware synths, drum machines, samplers, the occasional vocal mic and bass and guitar DI.
I have been reading about the apollo for a long time and the more i get into it i can't seem to settle for this exact same reason, The monitoring

issue. It seems like you said trashman, that it is "input only". I love in PT to record, play and edit, is quick and i got use to it. I am just not sure if

the Printing way of recording might work? I'm currently between apollo, rme ucx, or an aurora 8 and some electrodynes 501 since i have a lunchbox

working to its fullest as a monitor stand(empty), lol. In Totalmix do you have the same issue, another software where you have to route things

back and forth, or everyhting is fine just in PT?

I use waves, softtube, etc but wanted to get into the UAD plugs. Use PC with a Mac coming next week.

Thanks,

Edi
#4517
20th January 2013
Old 20th January 2013
  #4517
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Ok. Let me be clear again:

You can mix with the plugs AFTER recording without the UAD DSP. You can record without the DSP. So, it's like owning a quad satellite if you pick up the quad.

However, half of the entire point of this box is the low latency plugin performance. You can ONLY achieve this on the hardware inputs. You cannot hit the "console channels" from your DAW without going hardware out and back in again. Follow?

So, if you use VSTi like SSD or Korg Legacy there isn't any low latency DSP. If you use a lot of hardware synths this unit MIGHT be useful suiting recording IF you want to print the DSP... And this process is slightly strangely implemented. But why would you? Then you have committed to a sound without hearing how it sits in the mix!!

That's why the zero latency is pretty much a cue'ing feature. So one aspect of this box is a high quality cue mixer.

The other aspect is a traditional converter. It'll go straight to your DAW. And then you can mix (with latency) using the quad DSP -- awesome!

It is also a traditional multi output dac. You can choose outputs in your DAW. These outputs though CANNOT go directly to the console input channels. The only way to get there is through the hardware inputs .. As far as I can tell.

For an extremely high quality, super low latency environment for VSTi mixing with hardware inputs with fx there is the RME Totalmix fX. Massively powerful routing and latencies that seem supermatural. But very limited fx.

My point is this: with the free plugs they are offering: Studer tape, lexicon reverb and Neve package it's basically a satellite quad with a free converter. So if you wanted a quad with some useful mixing plugs ... AND you get a free converter that offers fun and useful cues ;D
#4518
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4518
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haha, thanks for the answer!

"Then you have committed to a sound without hearing how it sits in the mix!! " exactly!, I dont know if i would love it or hate it since at the end you commit, but for

mixing you dont want to later regret and go back to the chain. question:

So i can use the plugs in PT, they run on the card but with latency?, how bad is it? how practical would it be to be in PT and use the plugs post

recording.

I really want to fall for it but i can't seem why. Im going to see if i can try one out and trial and error for myself.

thanks tho, i appreciate it.

Edi
MJB
#4519
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4519
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I need to record a vocal along with an mp3 of the music. I created a new project, dragged the mp3 over, recorded the vocal, with Console supplying the EMT 140 reverb to help with the vocal sound. I usually open new projects with a template that has AUX tracks already there. I didn't do that for this project,and it's been so long, I've forgotten how to create AUX tracks in Logic. I need it to bus reverb to the tracks, when I simply put the EMT140 on the track, the revel level is wayyy to high, and the "wet/dry" knob doesn't help much.
Can someone please walk me through it.
#4520
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4520
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Ah hold on a sec:)

@trashman,

"It seems you don't have an apollo ?

This statement seems unclear:

You can mix with the plugs AFTER recording without the UAD DSP. You can record without the DSP. So, it's like owning a quad satellite if you pick up the quad. "

All ua plugs run on the uad-2 card, if you track with them that fx is set and can't be changed. Again a reason not to track with fx, monitor sure, but why commit ?

I record with protools and combine using ssd and recorded tracks. The simple work around is using ptx delay compensation and recording your vi trx before loading in intensive or oversampling plugs. So build your bed trax and leave mixing to after you have recorded or simply defeat the plugs to record vi late in your mix.

No offense , but apollo works fine and i feel you are creating a bit of an unfair perspective. The rme routing flexibility is an attribute but i only need one road to get to Rome not 100.

The rme is a very good unit but if you get that you also have the expense of the satelite and purchasing ua plugs.

But, perhaps thats what you mean, that the apollo quad with the current $1,000 plug deal , $100 voucher , and classic package included is the better deal ?

If maximum flexibility for routing is critical, the rme is impressive but if that isn't a deal breaker, the rme is currently significantly more expensive: like about a $1-1500 if you include the plugs, isn't it ?

I think more routing flexibility and expanded Console capacities are clearly on UA's radar and I wouldn't be at all surprised by announcements addressing those to some extent this week at NAMM !



Kcat
#4521
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4521
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I have had my Apollo for over a week now and am starting to get more comfortable with the Console/PT10 workflow. The UAD plug-ins are a whole new world to me and I am having a blast trying to figure out which 6 I will buy with the promotion.

Here is a clip to a new original song my friend wrote. This is him playing the guitar parts. I am working on drums and percussion and we will track that and bass Tues...maybe vocals if we get on a roll.

I am very new to mixing and this is really rough but let me know what I can improve upon.

Thanks.

Last edited by IamJohnGalt; 21st January 2013 at 01:38 AM.. Reason: attchmnt
#4522
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJB View Post
I need to record a vocal along with an mp3 of the music. I created a new project, dragged the mp3 over, recorded the vocal, with Console supplying the EMT 140 reverb to help with the vocal sound. I usually open new projects with a template that has AUX tracks already there. I didn't do that for this project,and it's been so long, I've forgotten how to create AUX tracks in Logic. I need it to bus reverb to the tracks, when I simply put the EMT140 on the track, the revel level is wayyy to high, and the "wet/dry" knob doesn't help much.
Can someone please walk me through it.
In the channel strip, just under where you would have inserted the Plate 140 as an effect on the channel.

There are the bus sends. Left click on one, and assign to a bus.

It will create the aux for you

Or from the mixer window (X on the keyboard) you can go to the OPTIONS menu and CREATE NEW AUX


cheers

Wiz

(maybe the best place to ask this question, would be at a logic user group or even a quick search if you were really struggling for time, I was just passing through 8) Logic Pro Help • Index page is a good place )
MJB
#4523
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4523
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Thanks Wiz, much appreciated. You're right, a Logic group would be great, I'll look around Slutz and see what's available. I was stuck for time, in a session, and needed an answer right away, and since I was using my Apollo, and the EMT140, I figured it was a related topic, if not exactly on topic. I somehow managed to get the Aux track, but wasn't sure how I did it.
#4524
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4524
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@Kcat

Hello, i am actually waiting for NAMM for that too, ( and the new moog sub Phatty of course! if there is some update regarding the routing and the monitoring. I

just dont know if i can commit FX recording, Is it that bad to do it after? i mean in PT as any other Plug in? the card would work with the latency and you can hear

everything else form your track playing back fine? Sorry i just dont know how does it work exactly in that situation... :/

The clips people have post sound amazing and i really like how it sounds.

Edi
#4525
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4525
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pas du problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by entresolmusic View Post
@Kcat

Hello, i am actually waiting for NAMM for that too, ( and the new moog sub Phatty of course! if there is some update regarding the routing and the monitoring. I

just dont know if i can commit FX recording, Is it that bad to do it after? i mean in PT as any other Plug in? the card would work with the latency and you can hear

everything else form your track playing back fine? Sorry i just dont know how does it work exactly in that situation... :/

The clips people have post sound amazing and i really like how it sounds.

Edi

Hi and welcome,

honestly I think you are worrying about nothing, don't worry about console you don't need to use it for plugs at all or to record other than using its pres.

Console is just a gui in front of your daw, yes it looks cool but i hardly use it.

If you are recording a virtual instrument you don't even use Console, you just use your daw.

If load plugs in your daw they are always saved exactly as you left them. You can do instant recall of plugs in Console to re-track, but I use my daw for mixing.

To record real instruments or voice , again you do not have to use the Console for plugs either, unless you want to monitor with them

I use Console strictly to control the UA's pres, Di inputs or inputs 5-8. Mostly I am just using 1 or 2 of the pres or putting an OB pre into line 5-8.

I have no latency problems with protools , just mute one or the other of the input tracks in console or the daw channel in protools. I normally mute the daw channel when recording to that channel.

I have had trouble with latency when I was recording vi drums to a heavily processed set of bed tracks and the work around is as I described it in my earlier post.

I can understand if you have a lot of vi's and for some reason need quite flexible routing the apollo may not be best for that.

But what I didn't understand was why go out of your daw once you are in it other than for OB mastering ? Once inside protools you can set your session mixing up pretty well anyway you want.

I think you would be perfectly happy with Apollo. YOu need to use Ua plugs to capitalize on that but they are regularly on sale and they are giving current purchasers almost a complete set of plugs; 2 verb, the 1176 origin comp, the neve channel strip(expander, gate, 4 band eq, hi and low pass filters) and the studer tape emulation, which is a very powerful tool.

Its your decision but I believe the current deal goes only for a few months. They are basically giving you back about $1- 1500 in free plugs and freebies.


@IAJG where is the clip you need to attach and load, underneath your input screen !
Kcat

Last edited by Kcatthedog; 21st January 2013 at 03:03 AM.. Reason: clip
#4526
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4526
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Joined: Dec 2012
Location: Miami

Thanks Kcat,

that definitetly clarified a few things that i just couldn't understand on the forums or the manual. I think i will give it a try and hope for the best,

my PT10 issues where those and i am very exited to try the plugs too. I mostly just track hardware Synths, samplers, etc so VI wont be a

problem. Maybe i was worrying a little too much, just wanted to make sure before i spend the $.

I appreciate it!

Edi
#4527
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4527
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better safe than sorry

no probs honestly Ua kind of over markets the whole console thing but I hope they continue to develop it

there are people who post here who use it live and print fx to tape more power to them. I am not that skilled yet.

A handful of people have posted here over the last 9 months saying they were unhappy and selling their apollo !

its a great tool and I have learned so much from it and the great group here on this thread.

kcat
MJB
#4528
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4528
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The console is useful for remembering settings from a previous session. Once I get good mic levels, it's nice to get right back to that same setting on a different day. I also monitor with verb, nothing else needed.
#4529
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4529
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@kcatthedog

No man I have an Apollo Quad sitting a few feet away from me. However, it's likely going back. I'm not sure yet

I was just stating MY impressions based on how I approached the unit because of the marketing emphasis.

Like I said, the console can only be hit from the hardware inputs. The console is what gives the zero latency plugin monitoring.

There isn't any way to hit the console for zero latency monitoring SHOULD you be a heavy VSTi user ... Like SSD and like or Korg Legacy and like. So if you wanted to use it live or get some real time mojo off the plugs you'd have to loop it out and back in -- UA FAQ even states this.

I was just throwing some stuff out there that I hadn't read in any threads here. Important stuff to know for a producer recording musician or live performer.

Like I said, it's a fantastic deal on a quad processor with a great promotion current running. But it isn't nearly as complex or integrated as you might think.

Use it in your DAW as a Quad UA processor - perfect!
Make some nice sounding cue mixes with the plugs on the console for real time monitoring.
Record those cue mixes if you dare even!!

But it isn't a fully integrated in and out mixing system like Totalmix or the Metric Halo ... Both which offer DSP.

For me it's worth it just for the quad processor and free plugs. I have a usd2 solo the has a massive passive living on it. So the Apollo Quad coupled with my Duende is a hot porno for mixing ;D And you also get that decent front end and decent DA. It isn't a Symphony or Orpheus but it isn't prosumer.

It was just the impression I got before digging deeper was "super low latency" THROUGHOUT the box as well as flexibility. Not the case.

If you were or are in the market for a Satellite the Apollo is a steal. If you were looking for a studio centerpiece with all the fixings AND your heavy into VSTi, I'd strongly review the RME UFX too.
#4530
21st January 2013
Old 21st January 2013
  #4530
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Ok here is where I'm not getting through:

Some people play their virtual instruments live and real time like a hardware synth ... Well, many people do. So if you load a stack of four+ UAD plugs into your DAW on your VI say goodbye to the latency. Even with an RME which gives 1-3ms of latency.

If you intend to use the DSP AFTER you record then perfect!! You have a nice front end and DA as well as a tremendous DSP engine.

But if you intend to use the plugs live with VSTi if isn't going to happen unless you loop it out via ADAT or analog and back in ... To the console which is where the low latency magic happens.

I have no complaints about how amazing UA plugs sound ... The free plug promotion alone is worth the price of the Apollo. You break even AND you get 4 decent mic amps and ad/da.

All the best
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