Waves NLS & 64 bit (v9)

Originally Posted by Retinal

Sorry, I don't wanna sound rude but those differences are there simply
because it's impossible NOT to.
They don't "add up" anything, there is no magic in 'em..
Unless having to punch an eq on a Neve console to make it stop crackling
also does.

See, these are the things that *really* sound like esoteric bs to me, and I worked on several consoles, both old and new.. Who the hell ever cared about the differences between channels (unless you had something wrong with them?)???
Really, this is the "legend" stuff, the kind of things that you only mention
in a specific case like this - read: marketing and showing that you actually put a lot of effort into emulate not one but ~32! channels of each console for the plugin - but most important
is the kind of things that distract you from actually mixing and getting the job done.
With ALL the variables in a modern mix, with the ridiculous amount of gear available do we really need to think about differences between the channels of a console?
I mean, to each his own, but damn..

As one who has worked on consoles and fixed consoles for 20 years I do not agree.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by bortraws

I believe Waves is starting to get good at blatantly copying plugins. Where's the innovation lately? This is the second copycat plugin that I have noticed recently to be coming out of their factory. First Vocal Rider which was copied after Waverider and now this NLS is copied from VCC.

You might wanna add a recent 3rd to the list. The WLM looks a lot like the popular NuGen VisLM and LM-Correct. I had the same thought as yourself recently with some of the new Waves releases. I'm still going to check them all out and give them a whirl though. Nothing wrong with a few more flavors.

Shane

[lllubi]

would like to know if the NLS VCAs work as a workaround for PT HD´s VCAs

[Vytis]

Originally Posted by Shan

You might wanna add a recent 3rd to the list. The WLM looks a lot like the popular NuGen VisLM and LM-Correct. I had the same thought as yourself recently with some of the new Waves releases. I'm still going to check them all out and give them a whirl though. Nothing wrong with a few more flavors.

Shane

I'd correct that WLM is behringered from the Dolby Media Meter. And let's not forget one of the most obvious ones the WNS > Cedar DNS.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by Vytis

I'd correct that WLM is behringered...

Classic.

Shane

[Retinal]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

I think you're overreacting with all this. It's simply a way to get closer to the way consoles sound, so to speak. There's nothing wrong with it, it's a set and forget thing, insert a channel plug-in, choose a channel from the drop down, move on. It doesn't take more than 3 or 4 seconds, I'm pretty sure it won't distract anyone. This is part of the non-linear process, having things responding differently in channels, etc. I won't get this NLS plug-in because I have Nebula and VCC but it's very interesting what they've done there with different channels. For example, I use to split my stereo tracks into L & R when I work with Nebula and I insert different channels in them and I can hear the difference (phase shifts and whatnot). Sometimes it sounds bad, sometimes it sounds good but most of the time I get a more pleasant stereo image this way. Probably I'm nuts but I like the results

But I'm not bashing NLS or Waves because they modeled 32 channels,
actually I do think that's good, I don't know how much of a difference in the
final result that will bring, but it's good that they did it, it makes sense;
also for what I understand you *can* pick your channel number and randomize them yourself, but the plugin does it on its own,
meaning everytime you open a channel instance it loads a different one, and
again, this make sense and that's I think is the "sane" way to use such feature.

Spending time listening each and every channel before picking
the one for a given track, that's what I think is silly, because I've never
seen anyone going this route on a real console.

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by Retinal

for what I understand you *can* pick your channel number and randomize them yourself, but the plugin does it on its own,
meaning everytime you open a channel instance it loads a different one, and
again, this make sense and that's I think is the "sane" way to use such feature.

If it works like that then even better

Originally Posted by Retinal

Spending time listening each and every channel before picking
the one for a given track, that's what I think is silly, because I've never
seen anyone going this route on a real console.

Yeah, I've never seen anyone picking channels for specific instruments either unless they are changing their layouts for a special mix or something.

[Duardo]

In this case I trust in the real analog world, computers can't give you the needed headroom in summing.

Whatever the advantages to analog mixing/summing may be, headroom is not one of them.

[Category 5]

Any idea when the demo of this thing is supposed to land?

[bishop666]

Originally Posted by Category 5

Any idea when the demo of this thing is supposed to land?

march

[RaySoul]

Originally Posted by Retinal

Spending time listening each and every channel before picking
the one for a given track, that's what I think is silly, because I've never
seen anyone going this route on a real console.

Again, exactly. And respectfully, I say to MediaMix and Mercado. I, like you, worked on consoles as a producer/engineer for twenty years before the big digital rush. Trident, Neve, SSL, Harrison, API, Sound Workshop, handful of others. Made lots of records. NEVER, have I seen it be relevant that one channel sounded different enough from another that I would use it for(say) bass instead of guitar, unless there was something wrong with that console.

Originally Posted by RaySoul

Again, exactly. And respectfully, I say to MediaMix and Mercado. I, like you, worked on consoles as a producer/engineer for twenty years before the big digital rush. Trident, Neve, SSL, Harrison, API, Sound Workshop, handful of others. Made lots of records. NEVER, have I seen it be relevant that one channel sounded different enough from another that I would use it for(say) bass instead of guitar, unless there was something wrong with that console.

When exactly did I say that? Please quote it and show me. That's stupid. All I said was due to the nature of analog there are slight measurable differences in each channel of an analog console. I never said they were drastic or to use one channel for bass or drums. That's nuts.

[RaySoul]

Originally Posted by RaySoul

Again, exactly. And respectfully, I say to MediaMix and Mercado. I, like you, worked on consoles as a producer/engineer for twenty years...

Originally Posted by MediaMix

When exactly did I say that? Please quote it and show me.

Originally Posted by MediaMix

As one who has worked on consoles and fixed consoles for 20 years...

What's Stupid? I was just giving you credit for your, uh, experience. Not, obviously, your ability to comprehend that. Welcome to the internet...

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by RaySoul

Originally Posted by Retinal :
Spending time listening each and every channel before picking
the one for a given track, that's what I think is silly, because I've never
seen anyone going this route on a real console.


Again, exactly. And respectfully, I say to MediaMix and Mercado. I, like you, worked on consoles as a producer/engineer for twenty years before the big digital rush. Trident, Neve, SSL, Harrison, API, Sound Workshop, handful of others. Made lots of records. NEVER, have I seen it be relevant that one channel sounded different enough from another that I would use it for(say) bass instead of guitar, unless there was something wrong with that console.

Well, I'll respectfully say I haven't worked on consoles for 20 yrs (heck, I'm 30) but I have mixed on 2 or 3 of those big names goodies (not as an assistant, hands on faders and stuff).

I think we're on the same page here, Ray: a) no one does choose channels because of their sound and b) differences are very subtle, even imperceptible most of the time... we're cool!

[RaySoul]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

Well, I'll respectfully say I haven't worked on consoles for 20 yrs...

Yeah. The twenty year part was for the other guy...

Originally Posted by RaySoul

What's Stupid? I was just giving you credit for your, uh, experience. Not, obviously, your ability to comprehend that. Welcome to the internet...

You said that I said this below and I did not. So who is having comprehension issues?

Originally Posted by RaySoul

I say to MediaMix and Mercado...NEVER, have I seen it be relevant that one channel sounded different enough from another that I would use it for(say) bass instead of guitar, unless there was something wrong with that console.

I asked you to quote where I said, "one channel sounded different enough from another that I would use it for(say) bass instead of guitar" and you did not because I never said that. My only point was that statement, whomever said it, is indeed stupid.. Welcome to the internet.

We will know soon enough what the NLS does and how it sounds. Until then no one really knows.

[bryan k]

Originally Posted by MediaMix

We will know soon enough what the NLS does and how it sounds. Until then no one really knows.

I know, cause i played with it at NAMM. And like i said in my earlier posts, ....it sounds and looks like a VCC copycat.

[work2do]

Originally Posted by bryan k

I know, cause i played with it at NAMM. And like i said in my earlier posts, ....it sounds and looks like a VCC copycat.

is the cpu hit as heavy as VCC? If Waves does audiosuite version that will be a leg up.

[bryan k]

Originally Posted by work2do

is the cpu hit as heavy as VCC?

I couldnt tell. The WAVES guy only had one stereo audio track to demo it with....so he only used one channel and one buss plugin.

its hard to say what CPU consumption will be without a typical 18+ track count.....thats the only thing we will all have to wait and see in March.

[K-Slash]

Originally Posted by bryan k

I know, cause i played with it at NAMM. And like i said in my earlier posts, ....it sounds and looks like a VCC copycat.

But ! No EMI model in VCC.

And if you said sounds like, I read, same quality, so even at $250 it's worth every penny for that TG model I think.

[bryan k]

Originally Posted by K-Slash

But ! No EMI model in VCC.

And if you said sounds like, I read, same quality, so even at $250 it's worth every penny for that TG model I think.

true....but Waves doesnt have API, Trident or RCA desk either......

The waves Neve model stood out to me the most, it was the most Audible difference between the desks they emulated. The TG model didnt excite me that much......but the Neve did sound fantastic!

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by bryan k

I know, cause i played with it at NAMM. And like i said in my earlier posts, ....it sounds and looks like a VCC copycat.

You have outstanding hearing capabilities, bryan, congratulations. Hearing what NLS does in a crowded and noisy place like NAMM is truly impressive. I couldn't tell if VCC is bypassed or not in a place like that.

[markham]

Originally Posted by bryan k

I know, cause i played with it at NAMM. And like i said in my earlier posts, ....it sounds and looks like a VCC copycat.

Bryan, it's not like you could really tell on the NAMM floor how different (or not) it sounds than the Slate VCC. It obviously does similar things, and it may even look similar, but I mean, how many different ways are there to actually skin this cat? It could easily be said that a certain EQ is a "copycat" of another just because it uses a graphical representation of the EQ curve, for instance. Slate was not the first company to release a plugin that emulates channels on an analog console.

Don't get me wrong, I have and LOVE Slate VCC. I was one of the early adopters back in the iLok1 days, in fact. But just because something else has come along that does the same thing doesn't necessarily mean that this is just a "copycat". Who knows how long Waves had this planned? What about Soundtoys "Juice", if it ever comes out? Will that just be a copycat, too?

Peace, man. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, just trying to bring a different perspective.

[ryst]

Originally Posted by bryan k

I know, cause i played with it at NAMM. And like i said in my earlier posts, ....it sounds and looks like a VCC copycat.

What about Slate's Tape Machine plugin? I haven't read anywhere where you're calling that a copy cat of other tape plugins.

I personally think competition is good. I'm looking forward to trying out the NLS and I'm looking forward to Slate's tape machine. I think they can all co-exist without either company being accused of copying another.

[bryan k]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

You have outstanding hearing capabilities, bryan, congratulations. Hearing what NLS does in a crowded and noisy place like NAMM is truly impressive. I couldn't tell if VCC is bypassed or not in a place like that.

it was Sunday at 10;30 AM.....the place was still kinda empty and alot of things were not happening at the moment. Very quiet for a NAMM show. I heard a difference.

Originally Posted by markham

Bryan, it's not like you could really tell on the NAMM floor how different (or not) it sounds than the Slate VCC. It obviously does similar things, and it may even look similar, but I mean, how many different ways are there to actually skin this cat?

Peace, man. I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, just trying to bring a different perspective.

I know no one is trying to pick fights.....i dont mind a good debate. But Im very familiar with how VCC sounds, i was part of the private Beta team when they first started developing it WAYYYyy back. So i grew to know how VCC sounds and what to expect from its emulations. When i heard Waves version......the same "like" sounds were very apparent to me. the SLL sounded aggressive and pinched, the Neve sounded HUGE in the sub-lows and a wide sound stage....yadda yadda yadda...

Now thats not to say they directly copied them, but maybe both companies got a spot on emulation of these desk types.......im just saying these console emulations share the same characteristics from Waves and VCC. Very scary in how close they sounded.....

Maybe I shouldnt have said WAVES are copycats, cause that may not be the case. But in a blind A/B test.....i bet I wouldnt be able to tell them apart.

Originally Posted by ryst

What about Slate's Tape Machine plugin? I haven't read anywhere where you're calling that a copy cat of other tape plugins.

I personally think competition is good. I'm looking forward to trying out the NLS and I'm looking forward to Slate's tape machine. I think they can all co-exist without either company being accused of copying another.

i wouldnt say Slates tape Emu is a copy cat.....they modeled a tape deck thats NOT A STUDER (which seems to be the flavor of the past year). Plus I like the fact thay they kept the controls simple....no silly things like "wow/flutter" controls, Time delays (ms), hi/low freq roll of knobs.....all these silly little things you wouldnt find on a normal Tape deck machine. They kept it simple and straight forward....and modeled a different machine. You should hear this thing.....of all the tape plugins ive tried....Slates was the only one that made me say "Finally someone got it right, it DOES sound like tape".

Can they co-exist?....of course they can. I just find it odd that Waves also has a selling price of $249 for their Desk Emulations (which so happens to be the same as VCC selling price)........I mean, Waves doesnt normaly sell things at $249, they are known to be the "expensive over-priced Brand". I Dont think its a hunch that its going to be the same price as VCC. They want a piece of Slates Market share.

Sorry if i offended anyone or sound like a jackass....but im just speaking my mind.

[Jeezo]

well as they emulated both neve and ssl , it's a litlle logical that ssl vcc sound kinda like ssl waves for exemple ....
how did you find the meters ?

[valjean24601]

Originally Posted by bryan k

When i heard Waves version......the same "like" sounds were very apparent to me. the SLL sounded aggressive and pinched, the Neve sounded HUGE in the sub-lows and a wide sound stage....yadda yadda yadda...

Now thats not to say they directly copied them, but maybe both companies got a spot on emulation of these desk types.......im just saying these console emulations share the same characteristics from Waves and VCC. Very scary in how close they sounded.....

Rather than saying that Waves are copycats, If the similarities are that great between the two plugins then maybe it would be fairer to say that both companies deserve a pat on the back for how accurate their representations of these consoles are in the plugin world.

Cheers, Mark.

[bryan k]

Originally Posted by Jeezo

well as they emulated both neve and ssl , it's a litlle logical that ssl vcc sound kinda like ssl waves for exemple ....
how did you find the meters ?

I didnt focus on the meters to see how they were calibrated. I really didn't want to sit there and over-analyze the plugin checking out each little thing. The Waves Demo guy would have thought i was nutz.....

I mostly focused on the sounds, overall look and basic functions.

Im gonna back out of this thread, and just let you guys be the judge when it comes out in March. Is it a good plugin? YES. Im sure you guys will love it if you dont already own VCC. For those that do own VCC already....would it be justified to own WAVES version for the EMI for $249? Hmmm.....Ill let you guys be the judge.

[Mikey MTC]

Originally Posted by bryan k

I just find it odd that Waves also has a selling price of $249 for their Desk Emulations (which so happens to be the same as VCC selling price)........I mean, Waves doesnt normaly sell things at $249, they are known to be the "expensive over-priced Brand". I Dont think its a hunch that its going to be the same price as VCC. They want a piece of Slates Market share.

Not true any more. If you check the SRP on Waves' most recent offerings you'll see that their pricing has dropped dramatically.

[ryst]

Originally Posted by bryan k

i wouldnt say Slates tape Emu is a copy cat.....they modeled a tape deck thats NOT A STUDER (which seems to be the flavor of the past year). Plus I like the fact thay they kept the controls simple....no silly things like "wow/flutter" controls, Time delays (ms), hi/low freq roll of knobs.....all these silly little things you wouldnt find on a normal Tape deck machine. They kept it simple and straight forward....and modeled a different machine. You should hear this thing.....of all the tape plugins ive tried....Slates was the only one that made me say "Finally someone got it right, it DOES sound like tape".

Can they co-exist?....of course they can. I just find it odd that Waves also has a selling price of $249 for their Desk Emulations (which so happens to be the same as VCC selling price)........I mean, Waves doesnt normaly sell things at $249, they are known to be the "expensive over-priced Brand". I Dont think its a hunch that its going to be the same price as VCC. They want a piece of Slates Market share.

Sorry if i offended anyone or sound like a jackass....but im just speaking my mind.

Not offending me at all. I just think it's kinda silly to make claims about the Waves plugin when it's quite normal in a free market economy for companies to improve on other companies' products. It happens in virtually every industry. The customers will determine what they like best. And again I think it's great that Waves is coming out with their version. As said before, SD didn't have the first console emulator or tape machine plugin. But Fabrice is quite good at what he does and I use VCC on every mix. So I'm looking forward to their tape plugin. And with Wave's recent history I'm very excited to hear what they have done as well. We live in a great time of every changing and improving technology so I'm excited about what any company brings to the table that helps me as a professional.

It seems obvious by a lot of your posts that you have an allegiance to a certain company and that's totally fine. But that doesn't mean any other company is a copycat. That's all I'm saying.