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Steven Slate debuts The RAVEN X1 Production Console
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#91
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
  #91
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Kai was here....
#92
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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Great idea Steven and as usual you are a very forward thinking gent and back it up working with creative and talented people

1. My concern would be the noise from the computer which I see right below the desk. Could some solution to that problem be addressed? I lot of smaller studios have 1 room so tracking with that noise is an issue as well during mix.

2. When I mix ITB I still use outboard hardware for my 2 buss which is typically a good mastering compressor and EQ. Sometimes it really helps to have some side chaining available for some tube saturation. So for me I would love to see a way to have a simple; maybe 16 channel mixer for the 2 buss with some sends to be able to be side chained and way to sum them back together and record them in real time as the track is played. This is usually how I prefer to mix in a simple but more hybrid ITB OTB style. Then I guess this would mean some more rack spaces would be needed for this outboard 2 buss gear being used.

3. Is their space on the table for converters to go and to stay cool? Some do get rather hot and need air.
#93
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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Jindrich,
This is NOT the place to air your accusations, legal threats, conspiracy theories and gripes.
Whether you have a case or not, take it to the appropriate channels. Cos chances are, if you really did have a case against Slate, you wouldn't be fighting it out on an Internet forum.
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#94
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
  #94
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Very wide console.....a little too long?
#95
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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Might die quicker if people stop bringing it up every page.
#96
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioSoundzz View Post
1. My concern would be the noise from the computer which I see right below the desk. Could some solution to that problem be addressed? I lot of smaller studios have 1 room so tracking with that noise is an issue as well during mix.
I have a mac pro which sits right in the same spot in my studio - I rarely ever hear it, and it has never been an issue for tracking or mixing.

There are plenty of isolation boxes you can buy if your computer requires it - putting it in the desk as part of the design would drive up the price and is not needed for all users.
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#97
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enlightened Hand View Post
@ Steven Slate

Why not a slide out tray underneath the center section for the keyboard and mouse? I'd like to have 16 faders centered, but still be able to access the keyboard and mouse centrally too. I currently have a desk that allows me to do this. Have you considered doing that on the Raven?
That was my first thought as well. Don't like having to move out of the monitor 'sweet spot' to mix. Keyboard tucked under, or otherwise moveable seems like it'd be preferable.

Otherwise, I'm very keen to see this product develop, and see what it costs. An interesting alternative to the SSL style stuff....
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#98
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
  #98
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Quote:
I have a mac pro which sits right in the same spot in my studio - I rarely ever hear it, and it has never been an issue for tracking or mixing.

There are plenty of isolation boxes you can buy if your computer requires it - putting it in the desk as part of the design would drive up the price and is not needed for all users.
I cannot image tracking with a Mac pro in the same room. I use a Mac Pro tower 8 core and it is way too loud for that, but I am recording Celtic Harps, Classical Guitars and Native American Flutes a lot of the time. It is not an issue with drums and loud singers though. I have a great sounding room and avoid close mics so I pick up some room sound which is part of the magic. I am well aware that isolation boxes are available for computers but not ones that have the look of the desk.

For me a big part of the appeal of the desk is its looks and I would want a box under it that fits the whole look. It is about presentation as well as work flow. Even during mixing or mastering I hate the sound of the computer even though the Mac Pro is not as bad as many others.

My take on the desk is it has the sex appeal of a big mixing desk because it is integrated and space age looking as well as functional in a new way. The computer is the brains of the whole system so why not give it the same sex appeal as well? Many people do not use Mac Pros so they may have even more noise issues at hand.
#99
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
  #99
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Is this a real analog console or just another DAW controller, I can't read 30+ threads to not get an answer, and how much?

We need another DAW like we need another massivly compressed auto-tune pop song.
#100
23rd January 2012
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It's a controller with a (I think) fairly capable monitor section, built in "cheap" speakers for reference, ipod and ipad dock, and some other things I've forgotten. But other than the monitor section, it does not pass audio.


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#101
23rd January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post
We need another DAW like we need another massivly compressed auto-tune pop song.
That's funny. I'd say that the DAW control surface market is under-represented from a hardware standpoint, and under-supported on the software end.

I blame much of that on the lack of a clear & open interface protocol.

Cheers

Kris
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#102
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
  #102
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Ha.. the RAVEN X1 console is NOT a controller and it passes quite a lot of audio, and Jim would be glad to know it does so with an extremely clean circuit path!

DAW control is done so by 3rd party units by Avid and Neyrinck whom we are a reseller.

Please look at the original post to understand more about what the RAVEN X1 can do... so far!

Alex and I took down a ton of notes at NAMM and will also be watching this thread. We're looking to finalize the design very soon and get into production, and I'll be able to discuss more pricing when that happens. The good news is that the one thing we have clearly understood from the reactions is that people want it configurable to THEIR specific needs so we'll leave things such as fader packs optional, which can keep the price lower if you don't need as many faders.

Also, the RAVEN X1 will be available without the ARGOSY rack bay enclosure but will still have a shelf able to hold faders, keyboards, etc.

Please keep your ideas coming,

Cheers,
Steven
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#103
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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What about a sliding keyboard tray underneath the center position and faders in place of the current keyboard/mouse spot? That would make so much more sense to me. That way your faders and keyboard/mouse are both centralized.
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#104
23rd January 2012
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Steven,

Sorry...just my bad attempt to do a quick (and apparently inaccurate) summary. I was trying to make the point, as I think it was Jim's question, that it is not a summing mixer, or an analog mixer of any kind. No "dis" intended. It looks like a cool product!


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#105
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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So I think the best way to do this is make the mouse/keyboard tray as shallow as possible so as just to fit these items.. that way, you won't be pushed too far out of the space so that you can still reach all of the RAVEN controls without having to get out of your chair.

Dual monitor guys: Would you compromise dual monitors for a split screen on a 27" display if you had all the other convenient features of the RAVEN X1? If not, you could always get an extremely large LCD behind the desk at the same distance as your speakers for the mixer GUI and leave the edit window on the display in the RAVEN X1... much like our NAMM booth.

Steven
#106
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
So I think the best way to do this is make the mouse/keyboard tray as shallow as possible so as just to fit these items.. that way, you won't be pushed too far out of the space so that you can still reach all of the RAVEN controls without having to get out of your chair.
So long as there are some centralized faders. It's a pain to reach to the side for faders and pan knobs over prolonged periods of time. I'm of the thinking (and actual practice) of keeping everything right in front of you as much as possible, especially with control surface types of things.
#107
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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The way I use Dual computer screens is to have the main screen front and center and have a screen for plugs off to the right side about 2 feet. My near field speakers are right next to the center computer screen (left and right of it) so my ears are only about 2' from them. For my taste your speaker placement is too far away (reflections off the table and so on changing the sound), although I have larger speakers available at a distance for clients I generally do do use them for mixing.
#108
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
Ha.. the RAVEN X1 console is NOT a controller and it passes quite a lot of audio, and Jim would be glad to know it does so with an extremely clean circuit path!
Steve.

Bad news.

Jim will NOT be happy if it doesn't contain a massive slew of archaic electrolytic caps and older op-amps in audio path.

Only way to get around this is to sell one to "Stevie".

No wait... The OTHER "Stevie"!

HOHOHO.

Good luck with this thing bud!

Hope ya sell a zillion.

SM.
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#109
23rd January 2012
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Steven
For me there's too much dead space. If the centre section could be compacted I'd like to see room for dual monitors and the fader packs moved a touch towards the back and more to the middle. The keyboard and mouse could then sit in front of them
#110
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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Steven, you must add a DYNAMIC/EQ section, like the Icon etc. then it is a winner.
#111
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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DAW Control

summing it up, make it (almost) perfect by:
  • Moving faders more to the center and adding a slot for the MC Transport unit in the middle.
  • Keyboard controller drawer.
  • iPad Slot along the surface of the desk panel (doesnt have to be a dock, its just to sit there neatly along the rest of the front panels' controls)
  • Plenty DAW control knobs (endless encoders with push and led feedback) in the desk panel for assignable two way protocol enabled (eucon and otherwise compatible) DAW control of EQ/Dyn and VST/AU FX/Instrument control (something like the Mackie C4 pro etc)
  • Make it happen to 2x 27" iMac/Apple Cinema Displays fit in.
  • Make it in the 5k to 10k pricepoint and I will be first in cue to buy one

Sonic regards.
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#112
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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I'll say right now I'm quite against a dedicated eq and dynamics section for a few reasons:

There is another controller that has these functions, and I have used it and found it very annoying when my favorite eqs or dynamic processors don't align with the knobs.. OR have special knobs beyond the typical ones that I can't assign.. It seems really yesteryear to me...

So this is why we have teamed up with the genius Paul Neyrinck who has a software application that puts the plugin GUI right onto an iPAD where you can tweak with the touchscreen. Mike Shipley was there when we tried this and we were both extremely impressed by how slick this was. We're gonna work closely with Paul to have this tweaked to perfection, because I'm very much of the thought that the future of plugin parameter tweaking is with touchscreen.. and of course this way, ANY plugin works immediately. The X1E (Extended) has enough space for the iPAD to rest.

As for dual screen, the issue here is this.. the more space in the middle to accommodate the screens, the more spread out things will be.. We will investigate further to figure out a workaround.

As for the front tray, the best idea is to make configurable so you can have an additional tray for mouse and keyboard, then the faders/keyboard controllers on the actual enclosure tray. We will resize things slightly so that the RAVEN X1 controls are still reachable.

Loving the feedback, keep it coming.

Cheers,
Steven
#113
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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Steve-o,

I forgot to ask you this about the Raven.....

Does it (or will it) have a assignable toggle switch for quick zoom-in/out for DAW audio track views?

I find myself constantly zooming in track views for more in depth precise fades/cuts on the audio.....and them zooming back out.

Maybe a 4-way toggle switch so pushing it up/down zooms in and out of the audio track views vertically, and pushing it left/right zooms the track audio views in/out horizontally?

I'm not sure if it already has it or not......but I do alot of zooming pre-mixing to clean up audio and this would be a nice thing to have.
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#114
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crille_mannen View Post
Steven, you must add a DYNAMIC/EQ section, like the Icon etc. then it is a winner.
every plugin have different GUI I think it's hard to decide how much knobs are needed for this section......

but hey.......why not making a Virtual Dynamic/EQ Collection plugin with a dedicated control section on the Raven X1?!??! I would LOVE to see it happen!!

oh....and does it have enough space to house a MC transport on the left hand side of the keyboard???
#115
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
[CENTER]

32 Channel, automated, touch-sensitive fader control surface
EuCon Protocol – the fastest, best integrated virtual DAW control system
100mm long-throw faders and 32 high resolution rotary encoders
Automation mode select, mute, and solo
Industry-standard Avid fader packs for performance, reliability and support
Everything with this product looks spot on and quite innovative. However, I have to say in my experience that the Euphonix Artist Mix controllers to be extremely sluggish when banking tracks. Put one side to side with a Command 8 and you'll see what I'm talking about. There's also a handful of other issues with these units.

Steven, did you guys fix the mute and solo buttons so the colors are correct? Do you provide the router to tie the ethernet of controllers together? How is that integrated? Do you update the firmware of the controller so the units actually function upon arrival?

All the best,
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#116
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
  #116
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This is going to bankrupt SSD.
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#117
23rd January 2012
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Hi Ryan, thanks for the input. It appears that these issues have ceased with the Avid re-branded fader packs. The faders work great and bank extremely fast. I love the feel of them too, they don't feel flimsy like some other faders I've tried. Ultimately I think going with the Avid was a great decision, especially based on cost and functionality which is important according to what has been said in this thread. To make something that would compete with what Avid already has with the MC Mixes would increase the cost of this board immensely, and no one is gonna want that.

Cheers,
Steven
#118
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Slate View Post
I'll say right now I'm quite against a dedicated eq and dynamics section for a few reasons:

There is another controller that has these functions, and I have used it and found it very annoying when my favorite eqs or dynamic processors don't align with the knobs.. OR have special knobs beyond the typical ones that I can't assign.. It seems really yesteryear to me...

So this is why we have teamed up with the genius Paul Neyrinck who has a software application that puts the plugin GUI right onto an iPAD where you can tweak with the touchscreen. Mike Shipley was there when we tried this and we were both extremely impressed by how slick this was. We're gonna work closely with Paul to have this tweaked to perfection, because I'm very much of the thought that the future of plugin parameter tweaking is with touchscreen.. and of course this way, ANY plugin works immediately. The X1E (Extended) has enough space for the iPAD to rest.

As for dual screen, the issue here is this.. the more space in the middle to accommodate the screens, the more spread out things will be.. We will investigate further to figure out a workaround.

As for the front tray, the best idea is to make configurable so you can have an additional tray for mouse and keyboard, then the faders/keyboard controllers on the actual enclosure tray. We will resize things slightly so that the RAVEN X1 controls are still reachable.

Loving the feedback, keep it coming.

Cheers,
Steven
Hi Steve,

I understand your points, specially on the dual monitor problem (does a 27" imac sits there though ?) which I seriously doubt will have a workaround without making things too much apart..

nevertheless regarding the touch thing on plug control, I beg to differ.. I think we all know that for some kind of controls touch is ok, but the feeling of controlling some other kind of controls, is very important to be physical, as to get the most natural vibe to it. So as long as those knobs and buttons are bankable (i.e switch to the next/prev bank of em) have 2way led and text feedback from the original gui, I dont see why it should be a problem to implement a reasonable amount (16?) of them in the desk, and no plug gui will be out of context and usability this way, and still happylly co-habit the desk along with the iPad complementary control app.

also wondering, if one's using its own audio card (an ULN-8 here) how come do you integrate your monitor section in to the system? via I/O of the users card? So i guess theres a patchbay somehere in there to do the job?

btw, you forgot to comment about that MC transport slot?

thanks for the pronto feedback.
#119
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
  #119
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Looks real good apart from the OEM use of Eucon (which is certainly isn't as the hyperbole suggests; the best DAW controller architecture.... hello!! ICON!!) and the Ipad virtual control software .... which is just again, a bit sluggish.

Everything else looks mega slick though!! Cant see it under $16k.
#120
23rd January 2012
Old 23rd January 2012
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Hey guys,

I hate to add to the fire but I invented the arm rest.
This is my sketch up. Pardon the age as I did it a long time ago.

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