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#2191
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
  #2191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
Am I the only one that doesn't understand the question?
Yes you are the only one.<g>

I think the question is not phrased correctly. To the poster...the Apollo has Ins & Outs...they aren't proprietary - they work like any other audio interfaces ins & outs. The UA plugs are separate than the processor.

However there are no inserts ....so obviously not the optimum for detailed mixing.
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#2192
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
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Inserts on the preamps would had been sweet.
#2193
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
  #2193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnkenn View Post
Someone posted it on the UAD board saying it was a screenshot from Sweetwater. I can't vouch for its legitimacy though. Don't know why anyone would fake it...

Preamp emus would make this much more interesting to me...
Yeah.. just wondering.. so sweetwater might have had a unit with lets say UAD 6.4 Beta ?

I could really digg some nice flavours like V72, Neve and maybe Api ..

even just the idea makes me want it even more *grin
#2194
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papanate View Post
However there are no inserts ....so obviously not the optimum for detailed mixing.
Why would you need insert points for mixing? You only need them if you want to process the sound between the onboard mic pre and the A/D converter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablu8
So, how do people feel about Apollo when it comes to using native plugins with VIs/Samples and latency?
IO latency is really the only element that differs from interface-interface. VI/Samples/Native effects are all computed by the host CPU/RAM. From all accounts, the Apollo has the same amount (if not slightly improved) latency from other similar devices. Someone posted values of around 5.3ms at 32 samples/buffer at 44.1Khz. If working at 96Khz, this would be less than half this value.

For outboard, you have 8x8 IO for sending to hardware units and recieving back signals. A lot of devices have 8 outputs, but your stereo monitoring usually takes up two, leaving you with only 6 mono outputs, whereas you have a total of 8 with the Apollo.

Simply hook up say outputs 7&8 to your stereo reverb unit, then use 2 x Line input returns. You can then send audio out of the interface via a send in your DAW, and monitor the return and blend to taste.
#2195
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoria89 View Post
Why would you need insert points for mixing? You only need them if you want to process the sound between the onboard mic pre and the A/D converter.
Brain fart...I was thinking tracking and writing mixing.
#2196
3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papanate View Post
Brain fart...I was thinking tracking and writing mixing.
he,he, no worries.
#2197
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
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Thanks. I can get 3ms rountrip latency with Apogee Symphony, and you say that one way (i.e, press keyboard and hear sound) with Apollo is 5ms? I'm not sure that this would be the best idea for someone who relies on playing VI's and large sample libraries and wants the best latency performance.
#2198
3rd April 2012
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I believe that figure of 5ms was a full round trip. The DA was around the 3ms mark.
#2199
3rd April 2012
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I didn't think FW could get that good latency. Most of what I've seen are around 9ms for round trip.
#2200
3rd April 2012
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As i havent recieved the Apollo yet (hopefully thurs/fri), i cannot say what the latency figures will be like. I will post values with various buffer sizes/sample rates once i get it.

In regards to PCI vs FireWire, i think PCI used to be the way to go about 5 years ago, but the gap seems to have closed since on most newer firewire interfaces.

I've got an old (4 year) M-Audio fast track usb that is USB1.1, and at 48Khz and 128 buffer i could get a round trip latency of 5.3ms, which for the unit is impressive.
#2201
3rd April 2012
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Just got an email from UAS saying they will give a $200 credit for trade-ins of each UAD1 you have registered. Email only mentions PCI and Satellite varieties, but if they allow it on Apollo I'm all in. Heck, if they'd allow the credit to be used towards plugins I'd be all in.

I have 4 UAD1 and a slew of great plugins I haven't been using since I got my iMac and started working on it exclusively. I'd spring for the Satellite (and may) but that will do nothing for my Apollo lust.

Gonna keep the UFX either way until I know the Apollo is at least as good.
#2202
3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 View Post
Just got an email from UAS saying they will give a $200 credit for trade-ins of each UAD1 you have registered. Email only mentions PCI and Satellite varieties, but if they allow it on Apollo I'm all in. Heck, if they'd allow the credit to be used towards plugins I'd be all in.

I have 4 UAD1 and a slew of great plugins I haven't been using since I got my iMac and started working on it exclusively. I'd spring for the Satellite (and may) but that will do nothing for my Apollo lust.

Gonna keep the UFX either way until I know the Apollo is at least as good.
Apollo not included!!!
#2203
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablu8 View Post
Thanks. I can get 3ms rountrip latency with Apogee Symphony, and you say that one way (i.e, press keyboard and hear sound) with Apollo is 5ms? I'm not sure that this would be the best idea for someone who relies on playing VI's and large sample libraries and wants the best latency performance.
as far as I understand it, roundtrip latency does not impact the use of VIs ..
On Mac Os, VI performance is handled by your cpu, and the DAW buffer setting should not affect the latency of an instrument (unless you're using a high latency effect plugin as an insert on the VI)

Of course someone will correct me if i'm wrong…
#2204
3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by method1 View Post
as far as I understand it, roundtrip latency does not impact the use of VIs ..
On Mac Os, VI performance is handled by your cpu, and the DAW buffer setting should not affect the latency of an instrument (unless you're using a high latency effect plugin as an insert on the VI)

Of course someone will correct me if i'm wrong…
I agree but I could be wrong too...
#2205
3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Gonna keep the UFX either way until I know the Apollo is at least as good.
Hi Catergory 5, when you get and try Apollo, would you share your thoughts on Apollo vs UFX , in respect of their sound?

Thanks
#2206
3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablu8 View Post
I didn't think FW could get that good latency. Most of what I've seen are around 9ms for round trip.
You can definitely get below 9ms with FireWire, as long as the drivers are good. My Metric Halo can get down to 5.5ms on my system at a 32 buffer setting.
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#2207
3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoria89 View Post
IO latency is really the only element that differs from interface-interface. VI/Samples/Native effects are all computed by the host CPU/RAM.
I don't agree, sorry.

Latency is only one factor that needs to be weighed up. The largest factor separating audio interfaces is the driver performance @ those respective latencies, VI Samples/Native effects may be dependent on CPU/memory resources, but without the foundation of the driver performance in the first instance, performance variables can be huge.

Quote:
From all accounts, the Apollo has the same amount (if not slightly improved) latency from other similar devices. Someone posted values of around 5.3ms at 32 samples/buffer at 44.1Khz. If working at 96Khz, this would be less than half this value
Can you point me to the thread where that is posted please.

Is that Round Trip Latency or just for the Output ?

FWIW : Both RME and Lynx PCIe /ADDA deliver under 3 ms RTL @ 032 Buffers , the UFX delivers 5.056 under USB/ 5.546 under FW @ 064.

The practice of doubling the sample rate simply to lower latency doesn't pay off performance wise due to the extensive increase in processing overhead to do so.

As I mentioned above but its worth repeating, RTL is only 1/2 the equation, the second half being how the drivers actually perform at those latency settings.
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#2208
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
  #2208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by method1 View Post
as far as I understand it, roundtrip latency does not impact the use of VIs ..
On Mac Os, VI performance is handled by your cpu, and the DAW buffer setting should not affect the latency of an instrument (unless you're using a high latency effect plugin as an insert on the VI)

Of course someone will correct me if i'm wrong…
I hate to be the guy, but... no offense, you're wrong :-)

Interestingly the same misconception is floating around the other Apollo thread...

The fact: audio buffers regulate *all* audio passing between your DAW and your audio interface. With VIs, you won't have any audio *input* latency, but you'll still hear the effect of the buffer setting on audio output.

-James
#2209
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
  #2209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnashguitar View Post
I hate to be the guy, but... no offense, you're wrong :-)

Interestingly the same misconception is floating around the other Apollo thread...

The fact: audio buffers regulate *all* audio passing between your DAW and your audio interface. With VIs, you won't have any audio *input* latency, but you'll still hear the effect of the buffer setting on audio output.

-James
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#2210
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
  #2210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoria89 View Post
IO latency is really the only element that differs from interface-interface. VI/Samples/Native effects are all computed by the host CPU/RAM.
But when you want to *hear* the output of your VIs/samples/native effects, the audio *does* pass through the audio interface buffers. Higher audio buffer settings result in more latency, even with VIs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoria89 View Post
From all accounts, the Apollo has the same amount (if not slightly improved) latency from other similar devices. Someone posted values of around 5.3ms at 32 samples/buffer at 44.1Khz.
If those Apollo measurements are correct, they're higher than comparable Firewire boxes from MOTU, RME, Metric Halo.

Many users probably won't care about that additional latency, but it does appear that (at the moment), Apollo is somewhat behind the competition in latency performance.

-James
#2211
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnashguitar View Post
But when you want to *hear* the output of your VIs/samples/native effects, the audio *does* pass through the audio interface buffers. Higher audio buffer settings result in more latency, even with VIs.



If those Apollo measurements are correct, they're higher than comparable Firewire boxes from MOTU, RME, Metric Halo.

Many users probably won't care about that additional latency, but it does appear that (at the moment), Apollo is somewhat behind the competition in latency performance.

-James
Thunderbolt should improve latency even further but @ 32 samples 44.1 Apollo feels great and runs great for me even on FireWire!
#2212
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 View Post
Just got an email from UAS saying they will give a $200 credit for trade-ins of each UAD1 you have registered.
Now THAT is a great idea from UA (yes I know AVID does this too). It's something that's sure to keep more people loyal to UAD as equipment becomes outdated and plugins need more and more power.
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#2213
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCDaveWilcox View Post
That is great news to me, I'll be even more thrilled if the Apollo can surpass the Ensemble!

I was looking for real world experience with the unit not what my sales guy at SweetWater tries to push on me. I already know he would prefer the Apogee, I just don't really value his opinion due to the conflict of interest.

I'm not sure what you mean by demanding. I'm simply qualifying the answer, If someone think's the MR 816 sounds great then I'm not sure my ears would be compatible with their opinion of the Apollo, that's all. Thanks for the reply.
Here's an easy fix. Buy one and try it. If you don't like it, I guarantee you will have no trouble selling it. But my guess is, we would have to pry it out of your cold, lifeless hands before you would part with it.
#2214
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quint View Post
Now THAT is a great idea from UA (yes I know AVID does this too). It's something that's sure to keep more people loyal to UAD as equipment becomes outdated and plugins need more and more power.
Yes, now I'm kicking myself for selling five UAD1s for £10 each...
#2215
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stakeoutstudios View Post
Thunderbolt should improve latency even further but @ 32 samples 44.1 Apollo feels great and runs great for me even on FireWire!
Good info, thanks!

I use V Drums with BFD2, so I'm particularly sensitive to latency performance. Most users probably don't care about the difference between 4 or 5 or 6 ms, but when you start doing stick bounces on a snare or ride cymbal, you can absolutely feel the difference.

-James
#2216
3rd April 2012
Old 3rd April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnashguitar View Post
Good info, thanks!

I use V Drums with BFD2, so I'm particularly sensitive to latency performance. Most users probably don't care about the difference between 4 or 5 or 6 ms, but when you start doing stick bounces on a snare or ride cymbal, you can absolutely feel the difference.

-James
I'm a drummer myself but must admit I record acoustic drums which I imagine is similarly sensitive to monitoring issues - though you hear some of the kit through cans regardless.

Most the time I'm using VIs it's with a keyboard but still I'm very sensitive to the feel of latency.
#2217
4th April 2012
Old 4th April 2012
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I got the apollo and am trying to set up a headphone mix with the console application and cant quite figure this situation out;

Obviously I can setup the monitoring of the inputs of the apollo for the headphone mixes, but how do I send the pro tools stereo output to the headphone mixes? When I playback audio from pro tools or from my mac it comes through the monitor section but I dont see a way to send that to the headphones 1 or 2. Do I have to do it externally? Please help!
#2218
4th April 2012
Old 4th April 2012
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Ouch. Pity that it has worse latency than UFX and other boxes. I may wait until TB is tested or go PCIe.
#2219
4th April 2012
Old 4th April 2012
  #2219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quinncmusic View Post
I got the apollo and am trying to set up a headphone mix with the console application and cant quite figure this situation out;

Obviously I can setup the monitoring of the inputs of the apollo for the headphone mixes, but how do I send the pro tools stereo output to the headphone mixes? When I playback audio from pro tools or from my mac it comes through the monitor section but I dont see a way to send that to the headphones 1 or 2. Do I have to do it externally? Please help!
You dont see the HP1 or HP2 in your output pulldown menu?.
#2220
4th April 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJaneFinch View Post
You dont see the HP1 or HP2 in your output pulldown menu?.
I do not. I see analog 1-10 in the output setup but no HP. What am I missing?
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