Universal Audio Apollo interface
#1622
2nd March 2012
Old 2nd March 2012
  #1622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by climber View Post
I suppose I should d/l the manual and see, but I thought someone might have the same idea...
manual is split into hardware and software
no software manual out yet
#1623
2nd March 2012
Old 2nd March 2012
  #1623
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smoovemode's Avatar
 

I have a scenario for you guys. Let's say the UA 4-710 was a full fledged audio interface (add analog outs, headphones and firewire) but with no UAD. Which one would you choose?
#1624
2nd March 2012
Old 2nd March 2012
  #1624
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Quote:
My point is, Thunderbolt is cheap technology. If TB was costly, Apple wouldn't be throwing it in as a penny-for-penny replacement for the DVI interface. I used Apple as an example exactly because it is a premium price.
Even if it is cheap technology, it doesn't mean it will necessarily be cheap to integrate into a unit like the Apollo. The price (if $500 even is the price...that seems to be called into question) seems to be right in line with the USB and Firewire option cards for things like Apogee and Lynx converters, various digital mixers, etc...those are cheap technologies as well, are they not?

And again, regardless of how much it costs...Apple will sell many more times the number of displays than UA will interfaces. And if a technology-driven thing like a display is selling for the same price that it did what, two years ago?...then that is essentially the same thing as the price going up, is it not?

Quote:
There will be nothing special about the UA TB card. It will be an Intel chip with a TB connector on a PCB board with a flange. All the internal software, the ability for the Apollo to recognize and use Thunderbolt, will be in the Apollo as part of its firmware.
How do you know that's what it will be? The option cards I've seen seem to have a bit more to them than that. And either way, even if most of what's required for it to work is built into the Apollo, it's still got to be paid for. Should that cost be covered only by those who actually use the Thunderbolt option, or should it be spread across all users?
#1625
2nd March 2012
Old 2nd March 2012
  #1625
Gear interested
#1626
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1626
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DR Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
I have a scenario for you guys. Let's say the UA 4-710 was a full fledged audio interface (add analog outs, headphones and firewire) but with no UAD. Which one would you choose?
Whichever had better conversion! EASY!
#1627
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1627
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smoovemode's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
Even if it is cheap technology, it doesn't mean it will necessarily be cheap to integrate into a unit like the Apollo. The price (if $500 even is the price...that seems to be called into question) seems to be right in line with the USB and Firewire option cards for things like Apogee and Lynx converters, various digital mixers, etc...those are cheap technologies as well, are they not?

And again, regardless of how much it costs...Apple will sell many more times the number of displays than UA will interfaces. And if a technology-driven thing like a display is selling for the same price that it did what, two years ago?...then that is essentially the same thing as the price going up, is it not?


How do you know that's what it will be? The option cards I've seen seem to have a bit more to them than that. And either way, even if most of what's required for it to work is built into the Apollo, it's still got to be paid for. Should that cost be covered only by those who actually use the Thunderbolt option, or should it be spread across all users?
I saw a TB adapter on the Metric Halo website. This adapter was only 250.00. In my experience as a computer and audio guy, most aftermarket adapters usually cost A LOT more than an upgrade card. The man who said if they charge 500.00 for a TB, feel Gouged is 100% correct.

Another point is this... Firewire 800 is 800mbps vs TB at 10gbs = No brainer upgrade for anyone serious about their music and may not want to sprint for an AVID HD or Symphony card.
#1628
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1628
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DR Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
I saw a TB adapter on the Metric Halo website. This adapter was only 250.00. In my experience as a computer and audio guy, most aftermarket adapters usually cost A LOT more than an upgrade card. The man who said if they charge 500.00 for a TB, feel Gouged is 100% correct.

Another point is this... Firewire 800 is 800mbps vs TB at 10gbs = No brainer upgrade for anyone serious about their music and may not want to sprint for an AVID HD or Symphony card.
Research it.. 95% of Thunderbolt is just a FireWire or USB conversion..
Sucks but true!!
In this case the TB "adapter" is 800mbps.
#1629
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1629
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smoovemode's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
Research it.. 95% of Thunderbolt is just a FireWire or USB conversion..
Sucks but true!!
In this case the TB "adapter" is 800mbps.
that's all?
#1630
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1630
Gear maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
Research it.. 95% of Thunderbolt is just a FireWire or USB conversion..
Sucks but true!!
In this case the TB "adapter" is 800mbps.
Sources?
#1631
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1631
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazrak View Post
Sources?
Don't know if this is definitive with respect to the Apollo, but...

interesting fb post from bla about thunderbolt

If this is the case with the Apollo, $500 for the TB card really is robbery.

#1632
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1632
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Don't know if this is definitive with respect to the Apollo, but...

interesting fb post from bla about thunderbolt

If this is the case with the Apollo, $500 for the TB card really is robbery.
It will be obvious. Using a quad UAD sattellite along with a firewire interface is reaching the limits of firewire.
#1633
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1633
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TAFKAT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
Research it.. 95% of Thunderbolt is just a FireWire or USB conversion..
Sucks but true!!
In this case the TB "adapter" is 800mbps.
If that is true that AU are just funnelling FW thru the TB port, this thing is going to fall on its arse... !

I seriously doubt they would be that stupid.
#1634
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1634
Gear maniac
 

Serious misinformation here now.

Metric Halo have released a FireWire to Thunderbolt adapter, obviously with limited bandwidth - effectively a PCIe card with FireWire ports on it. The purpose of this is so their many year old interfaces can hook up to new computers such as MacBook air.

The thunderbolt option in Apollo is not a hub, it is a true PCIe connection with enough bandwidth to be able to use its FireWire ports for other devices and Apollo behaving just like it was built on a PCIe card inside your computer.

There's even a block diagram in the hardware manual if you're in doubt.
#1635
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1635
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#1636
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1636
Pleasure!
#1637
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1637
Gear addict
 
isma's Avatar
 

Hey Jules, anymore feedbacks on the Apollo?

Can't wait to have a go!

Cheers
#1638
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1638
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DR Music's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazrak View Post
Sources?
Investigate, my friend.. No one out there is using real TB technogoly! Well not yet..
#1639
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1639
Gear maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
Investigate, my friend.. No one out there is using real TB technogoly! Well not yet..
Ok, again just to clarify - if you're talking about Apollo that is 100% real thunderbolt.

I you're in doubt, read the hardware manual and look at the block diagram.

Yes some vendors are releasing hubs to make old products compatible with MacBook air.
#1640
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1640
Gear Head
 

Daisy Chaining

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
UA are working on daisy chaining Apollo units. They aren't making promises but know there is demand for it.
Hi Jules,

Can you clarify this statement? As far as I was aware it was always the intention to be able to daisy chain units at some point in the future as it states this on their website (presumably after TB arrives?). Does this statement simply mean that they are going to try to have this function available sooner as there will be demand for it? Or does it mean that daisy chaining may not be available?

It will be interesting to see if the headphone channels and aux channels scale up with additional apollos, and if its transparent i.e. on apollo one you can route ANY input to the HP1 channel on apollo two etc. Hopefully with the large TB bandwidth this shouldn't be a problem. Other interfaces I was considering (MH ULN8) always had compromises with routing between two boxes when scaling up.
#1641
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1641
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
Investigate, my friend.. No one out there is using real TB technology! Well not yet..

That's not true you know. Heck, I already have a seagate drive adapter that operates on thunderbolt and the drive speeds while using are proof that it isn't just a converter, it's really Thunderbolt.

It's not some magic protocol that nobody can figure out. It just took a while for chipsets to trickle down to the developers...and they finally have.
#1642
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1642
Gear interested
 
young trizo's Avatar
I gotta get 1 when it comes out but im kind of mad that i gotta wait til september to use it since im a PC user
#1643
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1643
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_b_tulloch View Post
Hi Jules,

Can you clarify this statement? As far as I was aware it was always the intention to be able to daisy chain units at some point in the future as it states this on their website (presumably after TB arrives?). Does this statement simply mean that they are going to try to have this function available sooner as there will be demand for it? Or does it mean that daisy chaining may not be available?

It will be interesting to see if the headphone channels and aux channels scale up with additional apollos, and if its transparent i.e. on apollo one you can route ANY input to the HP1 channel on apollo two etc. Hopefully with the large TB bandwidth this shouldn't be a problem. Other interfaces I was considering (MH ULN8) always had compromises with routing between two boxes when scaling up.
As past experience informs me, sometimes you can't stand over a manufacturer armed with with a whip and a chair and a burning question, to force an outcome that you might like. (lord knows I have tried enough times in the past...) You can only hope. The vibe I got from the demo evening was - they will definitely be working on it. Thats as far as I could tell you from the answers I got. No signed contract written in blood but a "we definately know people want it and will be working on it.
#1644
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1644
Quote:
Originally Posted by isma View Post
Hey Jules, anymore feedbacks on the Apollo?

Can't wait to have a go!

Cheers
The pizza was tasty?
#1645
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1645
Gear addict
 
DIGI ENT's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by young trizo View Post
I gotta get 1 when it comes out but im kind of mad that i gotta wait til september to use it since im a PC user
Get a mac. U in dade? Wut it dew?
#1646
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1646
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
As past experience informs me, sometimes you can't stand over a manufacturer armed with with a whip and a chair and a burning question, to force an outcome that you might like. (lord knows I have tried enough times in the past...) You can only hope. The vibe I got from the demo evening was - they will definitely be working on it. Thats as far as I could tell you from the answers I got. No signed contract written in blood but a "we definately know people want it and will be working on it.
I guess I was thinking that the low channel count on this was due to expansion plans in the future. However, for me, if I cant have at least two daisy chained, then it a no goer.

You also mentioned 'hooks' in the console code for controllers - any mention of Eucon support?
#1647
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1647
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travisbrown's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
Investigate, my friend.. No one out there is using real TB technogoly! Well not yet..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 View Post
That's not true you know. Heck, I already have a seagate drive adapter that operates on thunderbolt and the drive speeds while using are proof that it isn't just a converter, it's really Thunderbolt.

It's not some magic protocol that nobody can figure out. It just took a while for chipsets to trickle down to the developers...and they finally have.
@Category 5

We are talking specifically about audio interfaces here. According to Intel (according to BLA) no-one is currently bringing a true TB device to market (except BLA).

As I wrote below, I do not know if this is the case with the Apollo. It's not according to stakeoutstudios. Mind you, UA hasn't released the Apollo yet, let alone the TB interface.

Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
Don't know if this is definitive with respect to the Apollo, but...

interesting fb post from bla about thunderbolt

If this is the case with the Apollo, $500 for the TB card really is robbery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stakeoutstudios View Post
Serious misinformation here now.

Metric Halo have released a FireWire to Thunderbolt adapter, obviously with limited bandwidth - effectively a PCIe card with FireWire ports on it. The purpose of this is so their many year old interfaces can hook up to new computers such as MacBook air.

The thunderbolt option in Apollo is not a hub, it is a true PCIe connection with enough bandwidth to be able to use its FireWire ports for other devices and Apollo behaving just like it was built on a PCIe card inside your computer.

There's even a block diagram in the hardware manual if you're in doubt.
#1648
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1648
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_b_tulloch View Post
I guess I was thinking that the low channel count on this was due to expansion plans in the future. However, for me, if I cant have at least two daisy chained, then it a no goer.

You also mentioned 'hooks' in the console code for controllers - any mention of Eucon support?
Eucon was referred to as definitely "being looked into"
#1649
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1649
Gear addict
 
tomteontour's Avatar
did you have to sign an NDA .. any thoughts regarding AD/DA ?
#1650
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #1650
Gear maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
Investigate, my friend.. No one out there is using real TB technogoly! Well not yet..
The burden of evidence typically falls on the person making a claim. That is, if this was a proper debate and not a long discussion and wild speculations on the internet about a product that hasn't touched a single customers hands... hah.
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