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#1531
27th February 2012
Old 27th February 2012
  #1531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdenton View Post
News flash...

A bunch of great artists don't mean sh*t!

A great room don't mean sh*t!

A U87 don't mean sh*t!

A great preamp don't mean sh*t!

A Neve console don't mean sh*t!

A ton of great outboard don't mean sh*t!

A Burl converter don't mean sh*t!

Not to the guy with the 003 Rack sitting in his bedroom or basement using VIs for almost everything, with perhaps a DI'd guitar or bass, and maybe a $300 Chinese mic and a Reflexion filter for a vocal booth.

None of that means sh*t to that guy, who is part of a very large market, and who just found out that Pro Tools 11, which will be 64-bit and allow him to run all of the VIs he can stand, probably will not work with his 003 Rack.

But the Apollo, which he (or possibly his dad/mom), can buy from Musician's Friend or Guitar Center (or Sweetwater or Vintage King) will mean a great deal to him...

And it's probably going to mean a sh*tload of money for UA...
for rizzle. The artists talent and dedication/or the engineers is the important part
#1532
27th February 2012
Old 27th February 2012
  #1532
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No speculation goof! Dude told me feb 22. Whether he is correct or not is not my fault.
#1533
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathanz View Post
Yes you can.












#1534
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
I found for PThD on eBay with an ilok for $499. PT10HD is $899.
Ahh yes the mysterious cheap PTHD licence only deals on ebay , great until you try and update the licence and you require a HD card serial/registration...

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#1535
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
Not TRUE!! At all! I qualify for a 10 upgrade, all day long!!
It is true. You can't register it so you will not qualify for 10 upgrade price. You can only get the upgrade price on registered software in your Avid account. You have to get full ebay version again for 10HD. Been there, done that with Avid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT View Post
Ahh yes the mysterious cheap PTHD licence only deals on ebay , great until you try and update the licence and you require a HD card serial/registration...
True indeed.
#1536
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaMix View Post
It is true. You can't register it so you will not qualify for 10 upgrade price. You can only get the upgrade price on registered software in your Avid account. You have to get full ebay version again for 10HD. Been there, done that with Avid.



True indeed.
LOL! Ok you guys win.

Wow
#1537
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by depulse View Post
And UA continous their ridiculus overpricing for the UAD2 DSPs. $500 extra for $50 extra of chips. Must cost them more to do two versions than what they gain from this. If they had made a 4 DSP and a 8 DSP version I could understand it.

Appart from this, it looks like an interesting products. I'd like to know how much they plan to charge for the Thunderbolt card.
It's an extra 500$ for the thunderbolt expansion, I think it's totally worth it though.
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#1538
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta Zane View Post
It's an extra 500$ for the thunderbolt expansion, I think it's totally worth it though.
I wonder how other TB device manufacturers implement TB interfaces for a small fraction of that amount.

Apple, who has premium prices on all their products, charges $999 for a beautiful TB 27" display. $500 of that isn't for the TB i/o since the same DVI monitor that preceded it was the same price.

You are getting gouged. It's not expensive tech. UA should be charging $150.
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#1539
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoovemode View Post
Has anyone got one yet? From What one sales place told me they were due to get one on the 22nd. I have not heard back from them though.
Not yet! Was told Feb 29th by my Sweetwater sales engineer... Haven't heard anything different but lets see what happens... I can't wait to get that thing in to the studio.
#1540
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR Music View Post
LOL! Ok you guys win.

Wow
Win.. that's an interesting word, yes.... hmmmmmmmm



(I must go now.... not safe to speak here now.....)
#1541
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisbrown View Post
You are getting gouged. It's not expensive tech. UA should be charging $150.
Given the hype/hopes/fears/dreams that seem to be riding on the Apollo, $500 doesn't seem unreasonable from a marketing standpoint. Plenty of people will be more than happy to drop that for the claims of stability, low latency, mojo enhancement, etc. I'm not planning on soldering my own TB expansion card...

For the early adopter crowd, I think they got it right. Given the number of people who shelled out $2.5k for one sound unheard, UA can expect healthy TB sales this summer. They can lower the price after that if need be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
(I must go now.... not safe to speak here now.....)
I think you're pretty much good to go anywhere on GS, any time of day or night...
#1542
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1542
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Going Thunderbolt means replacing my mac pro - unless the next mac pro has a video card with thunderbolt built in... I don't see how else they would do it. So, hopefully a PCIe upgrade card for older machines.

When I say older - my 2009/10 8 core really doesn't need replacing other than the thunderbolt issue!

Unless of course we have seen the last of the mac pro... I'm not keen to downgrade to a mac mini server at this point!

$500 definitely seems over the top for the TB card, from what I've read, this number seems not to have come from anywhere official so I doubt it's true.

The cost of thunderbolt accessories will decrease further when intel releases it's cheaper v2 chipset for thunderbolt also. Maybe that's UA's TB card v1.1... Early adopters pay more.
#1543
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1543
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Quote:
The unit exists and is in production. It's not merely on paper as you so idiotically stated, thus adding nothing to the discussion except your ignorance.

Prove that it only exists on paper or you shut up.
Nobody has them. It's not available anywhere...word is it will be shipping sometime in March or April (the February 22nd date obviously didn't happen). There are no reports of anyone anywhere purchasing and receiving one...just the pre-production models that were displayed at NAMM and used for official demos.

Quote:
Apple, who has premium prices on all their products, charges $999 for a beautiful TB 27" display. $500 of that isn't for the TB i/o since the same DVI monitor that preceded it was the same price.

You are getting gouged. It's not expensive tech. UA should be charging $150.
Are you serious? Just because Apple was already charging $999 for their 27" monitor...which is, what, five or six times what the average 27" monitor costs these days...you think it is reasonable?

Not to mention the fact that Apple sells a huge amount of their displays. The Apollo is a relatively nich-ey product, and the cost to engineer the Thunderbolt card will have to be spread across a number of units that's a small fraction of what Apple sells in displays.
#1544
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
Not to mention the fact that Apple sells a huge amount of their displays. The Apollo is a relatively nich-ey product, and the cost to engineer the Thunderbolt card will have to be spread across a number of units that's a small fraction of what Apple sells in displays.
OMG!! Is this thread heading for sense and sensibility ?!? noooooooo...

This is exactly why it is daft to consider the price of the DUO or QUAD card in the Apollo, and subtracting from the rest (converters, pre's, DSP), and then come in here and flame a product that is yet to be released.

By all means, the DUO and QUAD in the Apollo costs the chips and circuit, NOT the R&D, not the packaging, distribution, marketing etc.

Wake up people.
#1545
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1545
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Yes, definitely a steep price increase for 2 extra DSPs. Had it been quad base model and octo deluxe model that would have been cool.
#1546
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duardo View Post
Are you serious? Just because Apple was already charging $999 for their 27" monitor...which is, what, five or six times what the average 27" monitor costs these days...you think it is reasonable?

Not to mention the fact that Apple sells a huge amount of their displays. The Apollo is a relatively nich-ey product, and the cost to engineer the Thunderbolt card will have to be spread across a number of units that's a small fraction of what Apple sells in displays.
My point is, Thunderbolt is cheap technology. If TB was costly, Apple wouldn't be throwing it in as a penny-for-penny replacement for the DVI interface. I used Apple as an example exactly because it is a premium price. If the top of the line TB computer monitor is only $999, no more than it's DVI counterpart, what is UA doing charging $500 for what is essentially only a connector?

If you don't like the Apple example, take thirty seconds and Google a TB external drive or something.

There will be nothing special about the UA TB card. It will be an Intel chip with a TB connector on a PCB board with a flange. All the internal software, the ability for the Apollo to recognize and use Thunderbolt, will be in the Apollo as part of its firmware. There will be little, if anything, proprietary on that card.

I'm not suggesting UA should give it away for free, but simply it's gouging to charge several multiples of what will be their landed cost. Do you really think the TB card is 25% the cost of the Apollo itself?
#1547
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1547
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You will also have to consider if for that $500, will UA include an actual Thunderbolt cable? Have you seen how much a Thunderbolt cable goes for right now ($50)? Add that on top of the $500 if they aren't including one.

Carry on ...
#1548
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avening View Post
Thank you. I remember when these first came out and they were over a grand to purchase. Glad to see they've brought the price back down to earth.

This will be a nice addition when both Pro Tools goes 64-Bit, and the UAD plugins with the Apollo follow suit.

Cheers.
Newegg.com - Newegg All-Stars: System and Flash Memory! Plus, EggXclusive Weekly Deals...

Check it out. $119 for 16GB today. Sorry about the off topic. Just wanted to share.
#1549
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stakeoutstudios View Post
Going Thunderbolt means replacing my mac pro - unless the next mac pro has a video card with thunderbolt built in... I don't see how else they would do it. So, hopefully a PCIe upgrade card for older machines. .
This has been discussed numerous times, there has not been and probably never will be a PCIe expansion available simply because of the DisplayPort interconnect needing to be directly plumbed to the the CPU. On that note there is no such thing as a video card with TB capability, you are confusing that with DisplayPort , which is not part of the external/expandable PCIe connectivity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
HD TDM and HDX give you the advantage of a fully integrated low latency, delay compensated recording environment. That's a huge deal for some of us.
Here, here , thats one of the major points that seems to be getting lost in the mix on this thread.. :-(

Quote:
Having to use two different softwares for routing, cue mix, plugins, etc when recording isn't ideal, though for the price difference with non-hd solutions like the Apollo, it might be worth it to some.
Another point being lost in the mix due to the hyperventilating of a few , who still have absolutely no idea how in fact the unit will perform but are making all of these statements about it being a viable alternative and a game changer.

Simple fact is that without TB this unit is on thin ice, UA know it , and anyone who has any technical ability and understanding of the mechanics involved , know it . That UA have paper launched this thing sans TB on FW , knowing full well the caveats attached, is disingenuous IMO.
#1550
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiral View Post
Nova Musik told me "The ETA is sometime this summer." when i asked about preordering. That may mean nothing if there are priority vendors getting initial shipments etc.
Did someone talk about vapor?
#1551
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1551
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[QUOTE=TAFKAT;7617850]This has been discussed numerous times, there has not been and probably never will be a PCIe expansion available simply because of the DisplayPort interconnect needing to be directly plumbed to the the CPU. On that note there is no such thing as a video card with TB capability, you are confusing that with DisplayPort , which is not part of the external/expandable PCIe connectivity.

Now now, re-read what I wrote. How do you think they will integrate mini display port and thunderbolt on the next mac pro?

I don't think we will see a mac pro with intel integrated graphics...

What I think we will see is an NVIDIA or AMD graphics card inside a mac pro using thunderbolt instead of displayport.

As long as the graphics are plugged into a PCIe port, there is no logical reason a graphics card could not join
PCIe and displayport to a usable thunderbolt port.

That would open up the possibility of thunderbolt becoming available on earlier mac pros...

Speculation, sure, to an extent - but other than mac pros simply biting the dust, how else would a thunderbolt port be integrated?
#1552
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #1552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAMCRISIS View Post
Not yet! Was told Feb 29th by my Sweetwater sales engineer... Haven't heard anything different but lets see what happens... I can't wait to get that thing in to the studio.
Interesting as it's says directly on the Sweetwater site that the Apollo will ship in LIMITED quantities beginning EARLY march.

And to paraphrase the immortal words of Bill Clinton "it all depends on what the words LIMITED and EARLY mean"
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#1553
29th February 2012
Old 29th February 2012
  #1553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stakeoutstudios View Post

Now now, re-read what I wrote. How do you think they will integrate mini display port and thunderbolt on the next mac pro?
?

The "Mini Display Port" is simply the connector that Apple imposed after the fact , it has nothing to do with "Display Port" specifically

Quote:
What I think we will see is an NVIDIA or AMD graphics card inside a mac pro using thunderbolt instead of displayport.

As long as the graphics are plugged into a PCIe port, there is no logical reason a graphics card could not join PCIe and displayport to a usable thunderbolt port.
So essentially you are thinking that the graphics cards will work as a hub via the PCIe x16 interconnect , do you ?

Great in theory except that TB has separate plumbing for external PCIe and Displayport, if it was that simple there would already be commercially available add on cards running on PCIe 16x. Intel have been quite clear that TB integration will not be available via an add on card, as the Display Port needs to be directly and separately integrated at the motherboard level with a direct interconnect to the CPU socket.

Personally I couldn't careless about the Display Port aspect, I would have settled with the external PCIe aspect alone, but it isn't going to happen.

Quote:
Speculation, sure, to an extent - but other than mac pros simply biting the dust, how else would a thunderbolt port be integrated?
On the next MacPro rollout , the 2 separate aspects will be integrated directly as they have been on the Notebooks / iMacs , for older Mac Pro's, if you feel that not having TB will render them biting the dust, well you already know what the answer is...
#1554
29th February 2012
Old 29th February 2012
  #1554
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Cool, we're both speculating, and I'll readily admit my speculation favours not dumping my mac pro before its time...

I may well have to go the mac mini route in the end... Will all graphics chips be on the motherboard?

btw, thunderbolt is not utilising the full bandwidth of a PCIe x16 slot, so yes it is possible, and no, it doesn't require a direct connection to the CPU. It is simply displayport and a few lanes of PCIe on a cable. A x16 PCIe graphics card would be able to do it, it hasn't been done, but it is possible.

Not sure what you're trying to say re: mini displayport, after all it is what it says on the tin. A smaller socket version of displayport. Same socket thunderbolt uses.

Time will tell I guess...
#1555
29th February 2012
Old 29th February 2012
  #1555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stakeoutstudios View Post
.... thunderbolt is not utilising the full bandwidth of a PCIe x16 slot, so yes it is possible, and no, it doesn't require a direct connection to the CPU. It is simply displayport and a few lanes of PCIe on a cable. A x16 PCIe graphics card would be able to do it, it hasn't been done, but it is possible.
I understand that the PCIe apsect of TB is not using the full bandwidth of PCIe x16, its PCIe x4, but the separate DisplayPort aspect is utilising the full PCIe x16. Can TB be utilised via a secondary PCIe x16 / x4 slot , in theory yes, but as I stated before, if it was that easy it would have already been commercial available. I can't see it being tacked onto a graphics card tho , the PCIe x4 would need to be on separate lanes - as is the case on all current implementations.

Quote:
Not sure what you're trying to say re: mini displayport, after all it is what it says on the tin. A smaller socket version of displayport. Same socket thunderbolt uses.
I was talking about the physical shape of the port being used for TB interconnectivity , sorry I wasn't very clear in the first response.

Apple simply imposed the external socket design, earlier incarnations did not use that specific port. Prior to Apple sticking their proprietary beaks in Lightpeak was working on a different external socket, as evidenced by ODM notebook manufacturers displaying AVID Protools HD / HD I/O running on Windows 7 under Lightpeak , 5 months before Apples exclusivity complicated things.

Re dumping your Mac Pro, well you need to weigh up how important TB is to you.
#1556
29th February 2012
Old 29th February 2012
  #1556
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Can't really argue with that, we will just have to see what they do with the next mac pros... If they happen at all!

Yes, if they drop mac pros altogether I will go thunderbolt, but that means buying a MAGMA PCIe to thunderbolt chassis for my 2x uad2 quads, selling my mac pro 2009 8 core and buying a mac mini server...

Painful thought compared to buying a graphics card with thunderbolt built in... It's a downgrade that costs!

We shall see...
#1557
29th February 2012
Old 29th February 2012
  #1557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superwack View Post
Interesting as it's says directly on the Sweetwater site that the Apollo will ship in LIMITED quantities beginning EARLY march.

And to paraphrase the immortal words of Bill Clinton "it all depends on what the words LIMITED and EARLY mean"
Today, my Sweetwater sales rep mentioned that all first shipment Apollos were spoken for, and that for the next shipment (a month away) both versions had "deep pre-orders."

As far as the cost of the Thunderbolt option is concerned, he mentioned "No pricing at this time, I imagine they'll wait to see how much interest there is before starting production."

And as far as the cost of Thunderbolt tech is concerned, I know next to nothing, except for this article about the $50 TB cable from apple "What Makes the Thunderbolt Cable Lightning Fast" and "Here’s why Apple’s Thunderbolt cable costs $49"
#1558
29th February 2012
Old 29th February 2012
  #1558
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It looks like the public launch of the Apollo is getting nearer. UA just released a bunch of Apollo Console Application video's in HD. About 30 minutes worth, from using the Console Application to setting it up with various DAW hosts (Cubase, Pro Tools, Live & Logic Pro).

Scroll down to the "Apollo" video section:

Videos - Blog - Universal Audio
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#1559
29th February 2012
Old 29th February 2012
  #1559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artnoiser View Post
Today, my Sweetwater sales rep mentioned that all first shipment Apollos were spoken for, and that for the next shipment (a month away) both versions had "deep pre-orders."

As far as the cost of the Thunderbolt option is concerned, he mentioned "No pricing at this time, I imagine they'll wait to see how much interest there is before starting production."

And as far as the cost of Thunderbolt tech is concerned, I know next to nothing, except for this article about the $50 TB cable from apple "What Makes the Thunderbolt Cable Lightning Fast" and "Here’s why Apple’s Thunderbolt cable costs $49"
That's why I ordered mine around the 1st week they were announced. I had a feeling they were going fly off the shelves (before they got there)... When I placed my order, besides telling me not to depend on the Feb. 29th date and expect my Apollo more like early march (1st or 2nd week), They also told me that they were only getting a limited amount and my order was part of that 1st batch of Apollo's they were getting. Like I said, we'll see how true that is come next week.

Here's the latest video I found about setting up the Apollo with Pro Tools
Setting up Apollo w/ Pro Tools - YouTube
#1560
29th February 2012
Old 29th February 2012
  #1560
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Its coming out in april but PC users wont be able to use it until september...is that true?
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