Arturia MiniBrute

[SLiC]

Originally Posted by lapsang

why...why nobody is making an analogue polyphonic 49 key synth?
I'm tired of new monophonic synthesizers...

Probably because no one can do better than this for the money...

Prophet '08 PE 8-Voice Analog Keyboard Synthesizer Overview

[Chauvin]

Originally Posted by lapsang

why...why nobody is making an analogue polyphonic 49 key synth?
I'm tired of new monophonic synthesizers...

+1

I thought DSI would of done this by now. I would love to have a 49 key poly evolver or tempest with knobs/sliders for most of the parameters

[Shefu]

First i was like: sweeet; but then iwas like: no waiiii; and then life continued as planned.

No patch memory in this day and age? Really?

[PKP]

I think no patch memory is a good feature.
Forces you make decicions!
I sold many moon ago my K-Station, I think now is time to new real analog gear.

[miscend]

Originally Posted by lapsang

why...why nobody is making an analogue polyphonic 49 key synth?
I'm tired of new monophonic synthesizers...

They are of loads of them being made by indies.

[explorer]

Originally Posted by Shefu

First i was like: sweeet; but then iwas like: no waiiii; and then life continued as planned.

No patch memory in this day and age? Really?

Patch memory is overrated.

[lostinmusic]

Can anyone tell me what the pluses and minuses might be between the MiniBrute and the Mopho Keyboard? The Mopho sounds pretty phat but I like the immediacy of the Minibrute. I know it's not out yet but just thinking aloud..

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by lostinmusic

I've been using a Waldorf Pulse for years alongside my softsynths and wouldn't mind a change.. something simple & fun.

Can anyone tell me what the pluses and minuses might be between this and the Mopho Keyboard? The Mopho sounds pretty phat but I like the immediacy of the Minibrute. I know it's not out yet but just thinking aloud..

I like this too. I've got Moogerfoogers if I want to add thickness and fatness, but one of my synths is an Alpha Juno 1- oddly, I am not that into the Moog fatness. For some types of sounds I like a much rattier sound- with that Brute feedback thing, it looks like this can just dial up a bunch of tones I'd have turned to stompboxes for. I like the supersaw as an oscillator, and I like the thing they did with the triangle wave a LOT- it's like some hybrid between a sync sweep and a filter sweep. And it's all right there in sliders and knobs.

Love at first sight- I want one. There's nothing like cheap mono synth that actually has character. This pushes the 'WANT' button real hard, for me. I think I'd like that filter a lot.

[lostinmusic]

Originally Posted by chrisj

..oddly, I am not that into the Moog fatness..

Sorry, by Mopho I meant this.

[Ojd]

Hadn't read the whole tread, but here are some things I think are great about this synth:
...And by the way i'm a performing keyboardist and to say the truth modern keyboards are totally AWFUL in the field of performance. Its not only DAWs you see, some people still play them using their HANDS. So I ended up using custom built gear, and most of the control comes from stompboxes, expression pedals etc...
1.
So having some experience in DIY field, i recognise Nyle Stiener (synthacon designer) as a gifted engineer, but also a gifted musician (he's trumpeter BTW). So I'm totally convinced its him talking there, just compare the two:
Nyle Steiner - Interview 2010 / Bach Toccata - YouTube
Arturia MiniBrute Tour - YouTube
- That means you have not the first venture of the Arturia into analog, but rather 30+ years of Nyle Steiner experience. Also filter bears HIS name, so they just probably recruited him as a designer of the project.
2.
To all hardware noobs out there: this is single-VCO design. VCO also is the most expensive part of the synth, requiring special temperature-compensation resistors, which sells like 1 resistor = 20$ (not real price, but you get the picture). Also VCOs compare not in 'warm' or 'dirty' (thats subjective, you see) but in octave scaling, so the higher vco can go while maintaining musical pitch (like 8 octaves) the better this VCO is. This one goes up to 6 octaves, which is, to tell the truth is low-end of the VCOs. Boutique, one-off VCOs can go up to 10. That means they've cut the corner here too.
3.
After we have SAW going on we use waveshaping - we get SQUARE out of SAW or TRI. So the SAW to SQ is essentially and ON-OFF process, so no matter digital or analog - on is on, off is off, if voltages are the same you'll NEVER GET THE DIFFERENCE. When I saw it was single-vco synth with sub-octave, I immediately remembered JUNO-106 architecture (and its AWFUL SOUND, I hate it - sounds harsh no matter what). But then I saw ULTRASAW - I suspect it is this module built in Synth DIY , I don't know the designer of the thing, but with this one you get pseudo-beat of dual-osc synth (or phasing, that fat sound when you closely detune to oscs) and pseudo means it sounds very much like the real thing, just not related to pitch of the oscillators (think about it as like chorus stompbox). And that is a brilliant module, very clever move Arturia. You see, when I play synth solo, I really like to switch from one osc sound to two osc, but that usually result in doubling the volume, so I have to turn volume down (like with foot pedal), using this "ultra-saw"/saw animator you get more musical effect, also, if it sounds fat in lower range (slow beat, two saw oscs, equal level), at higher pitch it will give nasty metallic ring (very fast beat), so i tend to turn one osc off, when go higher. Metalizer is unknown to me, it might be Serge waveshaper or "Wavefolder" - precisely tuned distortion effect, CV controllable Synth DIY . Also Sub-osc is added using DIGITAL CMOS-TYPE CHIPS. DIGITAL. Always been (106 and 101 including). I think sub osc was tweaked to get SINE out. One important thing: all of this modules cost less than another non-deluxe oscillator, they don't use obsolete or expensive parts (VCO does, and some filters, including moog, steiner filter is dirt cheap to build), so it is partly workaround, partly bug-turned-feature. Or so they say.
4.
So no presets, eh? Its done because it takes designer to design interface between preset recall and current state. I remember my experience with moog LP - I hated to turn knob all the way, to to change a little bit from preset. In fact I hate analog pots/preset combo (it dates back to pro5!!!), only rational solution here is encoder with led rings/ preset combo (NORD LEAD 3 uses this, not much else). I think it was wise to really focus on quality (alps pots and sliders are goooood ) and features than on clumsy presets implementation. http://www.arturia.com/evolution/ass...ute_editor.jpg
But where velocity goes? I mean there no knob like velocity-amp-amt, or velocity-filter-amt??? Then why include velocity???

I'll be definitely looking forward to this thing. But need to hear somebody's "creamy" demo, mellow sounds, sounding like quite trumpet. Maybe one of you could post it here, when you get your synth in April? No patch memory is totally ok with me, never needed one (if you cannot make your instrument to sound each time like you, you are not proficient with your instrument). What really freaks me out is AUDIO GATE IN. This thing is sure feature-packed (maybe even overpacked).

[spiral]

Originally Posted by lostinmusic

Can anyone tell me what the pluses and minuses might be between the MiniBrute and the Mopho Keyboard? The Mopho sounds pretty phat but I like the immediacy of the Minibrute. I know it's not out yet but just thinking aloud..

I've obviously not played the MiniBrute but it is functionally similar to one of my favorite synths: the K2 Minikorg. I've also owned a few DSI synths and tried out the Mopho.

For me the biggest thing with the MiniBrute is how quickly you can arrive at an awesome sound. With synths that use screens like DSI and Virus, there is an element of not really knowing where things stand with the settings so you have to mentally know how/where everything is set. Also the limitation of just a few controls is very powerful for creativity. Feature-sets have increased in software, hardware, etc but it is overwhelming and often people just use the tools to emulate tricks that were invented on hardware (record scratching, samplers, 303 bass craziness). I've owned and sold a bunch of synths modern and vintage My favorites were the Roland SH101 (analog, monophonic), Minikorg K2 (analog, monophonic) and Nord Modular G2.

The Mopho has a ton of great sound shaping ablities but i don't consider it phat. The Minibrute has an imperfect and human sound quality to it (at least in the videos) that i think even modern VA's have failed to capture. The plusses to the Mopho would be the patch storage / recall and more complex sound creation. The minuses are the more complex sound creation and patch storage / recall.

[Buda]

What they've done is that instead of having a vst editor librarian they'll be releasing "sheets" where you can mark your settings before turning off, that way you can always go back to your programmed patches

[nms]

Are all the knobs and sliders automatable? if everything is then you could just dial in your patches in a midi file which would reset the controls on play.

[miscend]

Originally Posted by nms

Are all the knobs and sliders automatable? if everything is then you could just dial in your patches in a midi file which would reset the controls on play.

No midi = No automation. Everything you is live.

[Dave Polich]

Originally Posted by Ojd

Hadn't read the whole tread, but here are some things I think are great about this synth:
...And by the way i'm a performing keyboardist and to say the truth modern keyboards are totally AWFUL in the field of performance. Its not only DAWs you see, some people still play them using their HANDS. So I ended up using custom built gear, and most of the control comes from stompboxes, expression pedals etc...
1.
So having some experience in DIY field, i recognise Nyle Stiener (synthacon designer) as a gifted engineer, but also a gifted musician (he's trumpeter BTW). So I'm totally convinced its him talking there, just compare the two:
Nyle Steiner - Interview 2010 / Bach Toccata - YouTube
Arturia MiniBrute Tour - YouTube
- That means you have not the first venture of the Arturia into analog, but rather 30+ years of Nyle Steiner experience. Also filter bears HIS name, so they just probably recruited him as a designer of the project.
2.
To all hardware noobs out there: this is single-VCO design. VCO also is the most expensive part of the synth, requiring special temperature-compensation resistors, which sells like 1 resistor = 20$ (not real price, but you get the picture). Also VCOs compare not in 'warm' or 'dirty' (thats subjective, you see) but in octave scaling, so the higher vco can go while maintaining musical pitch (like 8 octaves) the better this VCO is. This one goes up to 6 octaves, which is, to tell the truth is low-end of the VCOs. Boutique, one-off VCOs can go up to 10. That means they've cut the corner here too.
3.
After we have SAW going on we use waveshaping - we get SQUARE out of SAW or TRI. So the SAW to SQ is essentially and ON-OFF process, so no matter digital or analog - on is on, off is off, if voltages are the same you'll NEVER GET THE DIFFERENCE. When I saw it was single-vco synth with sub-octave, I immediately remembered JUNO-106 architecture (and its AWFUL SOUND, I hate it - sounds harsh no matter what). But then I saw ULTRASAW - I suspect it is this module built in Synth DIY , I don't know the designer of the thing, but with this one you get pseudo-beat of dual-osc synth (or phasing, that fat sound when you closely detune to oscs) and pseudo means it sounds very much like the real thing, just not related to pitch of the oscillators (think about it as like chorus stompbox). And that is a brilliant module, very clever move Arturia. You see, when I play synth solo, I really like to switch from one osc sound to two osc, but that usually result in doubling the volume, so I have to turn volume down (like with foot pedal), using this "ultra-saw"/saw animator you get more musical effect, also, if it sounds fat in lower range (slow beat, two saw oscs, equal level), at higher pitch it will give nasty metallic ring (very fast beat), so i tend to turn one osc off, when go higher. Metalizer is unknown to me, it might be Serge waveshaper or "Wavefolder" - precisely tuned distortion effect, CV controllable Synth DIY . Also Sub-osc is added using DIGITAL CMOS-TYPE CHIPS. DIGITAL. Always been (106 and 101 including). I think sub osc was tweaked to get SINE out. One important thing: all of this modules cost less than another non-deluxe oscillator, they don't use obsolete or expensive parts (VCO does, and some filters, including moog, steiner filter is dirt cheap to build), so it is partly workaround, partly bug-turned-feature. Or so they say.
4.
So no presets, eh? Its done because it takes designer to design interface between preset recall and current state. I remember my experience with moog LP - I hated to turn knob all the way, to to change a little bit from preset. In fact I hate analog pots/preset combo (it dates back to pro5!!!), only rational solution here is encoder with led rings/ preset combo (NORD LEAD 3 uses this, not much else). I think it was wise to really focus on quality (alps pots and sliders are goooood ) and features than on clumsy presets implementation. http://www.arturia.com/evolution/ass...ute_editor.jpg
But where velocity goes? I mean there no knob like velocity-amp-amt, or velocity-filter-amt??? Then why include velocity???

I'll be definitely looking forward to this thing. But need to hear somebody's "creamy" demo, mellow sounds, sounding like quite trumpet. Maybe one of you could post it here, when you get your synth in April? No patch memory is totally ok with me, never needed one (if you cannot make your instrument to sound each time like you, you are not proficient with your instrument). What really freaks me out is AUDIO GATE IN. This thing is sure feature-packed (maybe even overpacked).

From what you posted (some of which is difficult to understand), I conclude you know next to nothing about analog synthesizers.

When you add a second oscillator on an analog synth, it doesn't "double" the sound. That's what happens
with sample playback synths, but not with true analog synths. Paragraph "2" is where you are talking about
aliasing in the upper octaves, but obviously you don't know what that is, or you would have defined it as aliasing, and not "octave scaling".

Paragraph 3 - huh?. "Saw to square is and ON-OFF process" - "if voltages are the same YOU'LL NEVER GET THE DIFFERENCE" - "Also Sub-osc is added using DIGITAL CMOS-TYPE CHIPS. DIGITAL. Always been (106 and 101 including). I think sub osc was tweaked to get SINE out. One important thing: all of this modules cost less than another non-deluxe oscillator, they don't use obsolete or expensive parts (VCO does, and some filters, including moog, steiner filter is dirt cheap to build), so it is partly workaround, partly bug-turned-feature. Or so they say.
None of these statements make any sense at all.

" No patch memory is totally ok with me, never needed one (if you cannot make your instrument to sound each time like you, you are not proficient with your instrument". This might be the single most idiotic
thing I've ever read on this forum.

It would be nice if people who pretend to be professional musicians would stop posting pompous, pretentious nonsense like this.

[verve92]

Originally Posted by Dave Polich

From what you posted (some of which is difficult to understand), I conclude you know next to nothing about analog synthesizers.

When you add a second oscillator on an analog synth, it doesn't "double" the sound. That's what happens
with sample playback synths, but not with true analog synths. Parapgraph "2" is where you are talking about
aliasing in the upper octaves, but obviously you don't know what that is, or you would have defined it as aliasing, and not "octave scaling".

Paragraph 3 - huh?. "Saw to square is and ON-OFF process" - "if voltages are the same YOU'LL NEVER GET THE DIFFERENCE" - "Also Sub-osc is added using DIGITAL CMOS-TYPE CHIPS. DIGITAL. Always been (106 and 101 including). I think sub osc was tweaked to get SINE out. One important thing: all of this modules cost less than another non-deluxe oscillator, they don't use obsolete or expensive parts (VCO does, and some filters, including moog, steiner filter is dirt cheap to build), so it is partly workaround, partly bug-turned-feature. Or so they say.
None of these statements make any sense at all.

" No patch memory is totally ok with me, never needed one (if you cannot make your instrument to sound each time like you, you are not proficient with your instrument". This might be the single most idiotic
thing I've ever read on this forum.

It would be nice if people who pretend to be professional musicians would stop posting pompous, pretentious nonsense like this.

Also correct me if I am wrong, but aliasing only happens in digital, yes?

[Dave Polich]

Yes, that's correct. Analog oscillators do not exhibit aliasing.

[PKP]

We NEED more sound demos!!!!

[HomeProducer]

so whats the conclusion on the Minibrute?

When do we get the plugin version?

I wanna buy the minibrute and get the free plugin version.

Then I place the minibrute on a stand in the corner to impress guests
and use the plugin all the time. Also it should have a bit more aliasing, minibrute
doesn't have enough aliasing. Young people used to mp3 and aliasing, dont forget.

[verve92]

^

[spiral]

Ha. "gritty" is the new "phat" of the 10's.

[pH7]

Originally Posted by Dave Polich

From what you posted (some of which is difficult to understand), I conclude you know next to nothing about analog synthesizers.

Well one of you two doesn't, that's clear.

When you add a second oscillator on an analog synth, it doesn't "double" the sound. That's what happens with sample playback synths, but not with true analog synths.

Read what he said - he is switching in a second oscillator. Obviously that makes the sound louder.

Paragraph "2" is where you are talking about aliasing in the upper octaves, but obviously you don't know what that is, or you would have defined it as aliasing, and not "octave scaling".

Nope, from the context he is obviously talking about tracking. You pulled the "aliasing" part out of ... somewhere ... and then abused him for something he never said.

Paragraph 3 - huh?. "Saw to square is and ON-OFF process" - "if voltages are the same YOU'LL NEVER GET THE DIFFERENCE" - "Also Sub-osc is added using DIGITAL CMOS-TYPE CHIPS. DIGITAL. Always been (106 and 101 including). I think sub osc was tweaked to get SINE out. One important thing: all of this modules cost less than another non-deluxe oscillator, they don't use obsolete or expensive parts (VCO does, and some filters, including moog, steiner filter is dirt cheap to build), so it is partly workaround, partly bug-turned-feature. Or so they say.
None of these statements make any sense at all.

They make perfect sense to someone who knows how analog synths work internally. Simplified version for those who apparently do not:

You start with a saw, and convert it to a pulse/square by toggling between two voltages at a threshold. Digital or analog-derived square waves are theoretically identical, because both have only two states. So-called "sub-oscillators are generally done by taking the square wave and feeding into a binary divider circuit, which is effectively digital.

Bottom line: Arturia has been clever by limiting the range and complexity of the VCO so they can use cheap and readily available parts.

It would be nice if people who pretend to be professional musicians would stop posting pompous, pretentious nonsense like this.

Yes, it would...

[breandawg]

Originally Posted by G. Kaye

I saw a demo where the guy from Arturia said they will be releasing an integrated software program to go with it when it is released in April. Probably just for patch saving. I personally like the no patch memory, keeps costs down, and forces you to create something unique for every song you make with it. But for those interested, yeah it sound like software will be released.

The question I have is about those sub-osc. I know the Mopho, which is a 1 osc synth, uses those sub-osc as a selling point how to fatten up the 1 osc, but always neglects to mention that in reality they are digital, not analog sub-osc.

So, are these Arturia sub-osc analog or digital? None of the guys demoing them mention anything about them, other than saying they "fatten up" the sound.

The Mopho is in fact a 2-osc synth with 2 sub-oscs, and it's got some serious balls. Being able to have a second osc at a different pitch is one area where it has an advantage over the Minibrute, as well as other points mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but I have to say the Minibrute looks and sounds like a real gem from what I've seen/heard.

Anyway, one can never have too many mono synths

[PKP]

Arturia - Musical Instruments | Media

Here I found some audio demos. New? Do not know?

[spiral]

Originally Posted by PKP

Arturia - Musical Instruments | Media

Here I found some audio demos. New? Do not know?

They have been there but are worth pointing out.

[fateisaweapon]

I'd love to trade my spark for one

[slujj vohaul]

Originally Posted by fateisaweapon

I'd love to trade my spark for one

Does the Spark suck or what? I have a Maschine and love it, so I'd never consider getting a Spark as long as I had the Maschine, but it looked pretty fun in a gimmicky kind of way. The Spark seems like Arturia had a bastard baby with a Korg ESX, thus producing the Spark. I had a lot of fun with my ESX for a year or two, but I gotta have MPC style pads in a grid these days.

[Dave Polich]

Originally Posted by pH7

Well one of you two doesn't, that's clear.



Read what he said - he is switching in a second oscillator. Obviously that makes the sound louder.



Nope, from the context he is obviously talking about tracking. You pulled the "aliasing" part out of ... somewhere ... and then abused him for something he never said.



They make perfect sense to someone who knows how analog synths work internally. Simplified version for those who apparently do not:

You start with a saw, and convert it to a pulse/square by toggling between two voltages at a threshold. Digital or analog-derived square waves are theoretically identical, because both have only two states. So-called "sub-oscillators are generally done by taking the square wave and feeding into a binary divider circuit, which is effectively digital.

Bottom line: Arturia has been clever by limiting the range and complexity of the VCO so they can use cheap and readily available parts.



Yes, it would...

I stand by every single thing I stated.

That's all for now.

[opeth13]

dunno if someone posted this already, but my friend just pointed out SoS has a review article up of the minibrute:

Product Review - Arturia MiniBrute

now if I only had a subscription...

[verve92]

Originally Posted by opeth13

dunno if someone posted this already, but my friend just pointed out SoS has a review article up of the minibrute:

Product Review - Arturia MiniBrute

now if I only had a subscription...

Didn't see that thanks!