Plugin Alliance announces THE BIG 4 BUNDLE

[carambo]

Agree, but as stated earlier in this thread, the customer is paying this situation, the industry should decide/agree for a common standard "protection" for their own interest and for the interest of the customers ! At different scale, many industries have defined common standard

[Dbas]

[QUOTE=carambo;7393447]I never understood why so many people complain about Ilok ! QUOTE]

And you never will!

[IsRael Musiq]

Originally Posted by scanner

I contacted Elysia to request permission to sell my Mpressor and alpha plugins. I've been told that as they are now part of the plugin alliance, Ilok no longer give them access to their database.
I now have to pay to join the alliance, but after reading the FAQ I find out there's a charge for transferring licenses too. I'm waiting to hear back from PA what that charge is.
Remembering how much I paid for these plugins originally, their subsequent price slashes and the hoop jumping to sell, not to mention they have to be sold as a bundle... well you can guess how I feel.

Al

EDIT:

I got this too, so won't hold my breath for the transfer pricing:



Edit 2: I take it back, I heard back from Dirk,so the message got through.. must have been a glitch in the matrix.

O wowowowowowowowowowow... If this is true... Sick and tired of companies charging you for buying their software or to resell it. Honestly i had no beef with them and thought this move would be best for everyone.

I recently bought the vertigo plug like 3 weeks ago and it will surely be my last plug from them if they think they gonna continue to nickel and dime. I will keep quiet until we get full details first though. I do not want to speak out of anger, especially regarding something that could be changed. Im hoping someone from company can elab on this topic...

[hotpinkbirds]

I love brainworx, spent a lot of money of their plugins. They lost me as a customer for two reasons:
I refuse to use plugins that dont support ilok. It is my lifestyle, jumping around pop it in and off i go.

Next reason, as much as this alliance venture of theirs may be good in some way, i honestly could care less who is joined with whom, as long as i can work without hassle. Upgrade charging on a move they made is ridiculous imo, we never asked for this and i could care less.

[javahut]

Originally Posted by hotpinkbirds

Upgrade charging on a move they made is ridiculous imo, we never asked for this and i could care less.

I think the upgrade charge is more for the move to 64 bit plug-ins, and less about the new plug-in alliance licensing.

However, it seems like the primary reason to move away from iLok and to their own security schema would be to save costs incurred for utilizing the iLok licensing service. Does this mean we'll see the savings passed down to the customer in future pricing (i.e., lower prices)?

[scanner]

Originally Posted by scanner

Edit 2: I take it back, I heard back from Dirk,so the message got through.. must have been a glitch in the matrix.

The situation has been spelled our to me in black and white direct from support.

To join the new system it will cost me $40 ($20 per plugin).

To "sell" my account... In their words, close my account and open another containing the same plugins will cost $50.

$90 in total.

Al

[trepbale]

Seems most people, including myself, were focused on how the authorizations were going to work. Got hit w/ a pricing model curveball on this one, huh. Yep, def NOT buying into this...oh well

[danger]

Originally Posted by hotpinkbirds

I love brainworx, spent a lot of money of their plugins. They lost me as a customer for two reasons:
I refuse to use plugins that dont support ilok. It is my lifestyle, jumping around pop it in and off i go.
Next reason, as much as this alliance venture of theirs may be good in some way, i honestly could care less who is joined with whom, as long as i can work without hassle. Upgrade charging on a move they made is ridiculous imo, we never asked for this and i could care less.

why cant you work without hassle with the new system?

[scanner]

Originally Posted by danger

why cant you work without hassle with the new system?

I believe you quoted what hotpinkbirds considers "hassle" in his post regarding the ease of Ilok.

As I've said before, I move around a bit and would be restricted by the 3 license limit.

I'm currently asking support about their multiple license solution they mention in the FAQ.
This may improve flexibility.

Al

[scanner]

Originally Posted by scanner

I'm currently asking support about their multiple license solution they mention in the FAQ.
This may improve flexibility.

I just heard back. They're working out the rules or a system for deauthorising machines. If the latter comes off, it's reassuring, and will give flexibly if it means you don't "lose a life".

Al

[BertilAlving]

The iLok is a very handy solution, you can use your plugins with any computer more or less forever.

As I understand from this thread, and from the Alliance, the new protection is a challenge/response system which consumes one authorization each time I replace some hardware in my computer (like upgrading the CPU or RAM), right?

And if we are given 3 authorizations, it will not take long before I can't use the plugin anymore. That happened when my motherboard fried and my Kjaerhus plugin got useless and worthless, I bought it only a couple of months before Kjaerhus vanished.

[danander11]

It's a poor scheme. We are being asked topay for the upgrade to AAX/64 bit on some of these license, why not allow us to pay for the iLok feature?

I personally want a refund on VSC-2. It's only a few weeks old and should have been ported up freely without having to buy into a new licensing scheme.

64 bit and AAX were released prior to VSC-2 and it was reasonable to expect the upgrade since their website carried no warning that it would not.

For my SPL plugs, if they want to charge me a reasonable upgrade fee to go to 64/AAX then I will pay it.. IF I can stay with iLok. if I cannot, I'll sell the plugs I have and not use them any more.

I like these plugs, but none of them are indispensable.

We're getting mugged here.

[IsRael Musiq]

Originally Posted by danander11

It's a poor scheme. We are being asked topay for the upgrade to AAX/64 bit on some of these license, why not allow us to pay for the iLok feature?

I personally want a refund on VSC-2. It's only a few weeks old and should have been ported up freely without having to buy into a new licensing scheme.

64 bit and AAX were released prior to VSC-2 and it was reasonable to expect the upgrade since their website carried no warning that it would not.

For my SPL plugs, if they want to charge me a reasonable upgrade fee to go to 64/AAX then I will pay it.. IF I can stay with iLok. if I cannot, I'll sell the plugs I have and not use them any more.

I like these plugs, but none of them are indispensable.

We're getting mugged here.

That is shady man, if you know your going to "Port something" over to 64 bit less than 2 months later why not just release the 64-bit version 2 months instead of making your customers pay TWICE... Just wow man. I guess when the economy goes down, good business practices go out the window :(

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by danander11

I personally want a refund on VSC-2. It's only a few weeks old and should have been ported up freely without having to buy into a new licensing scheme.

64 bit and AAX were released prior to VSC-2 and it was reasonable to expect the upgrade since their website carried no warning that it would not.

From Plugin-Alliance's F.A.Q:

If you bought your licenses MAY 1st, 2011 or later: FREE update.
Just grab the new installers for these plugins and you will be fine.

If your license was bought BEFORE MAY 1st, 2011: PAID update.
Don´t worry, updates for older plugins are only 20 US$ for single plugins or 50$ for ALL of your Alliance plugins in one account.

[danander11]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

From Plugin-Alliance's F.A.Q:

ONLY if you go with the new licensing scheme!

I do not want to use it. I do not want all of my SPL/BX plugs tied together. I do not want to have to chase authorizations when going from room to room or even machine to machine.

For a guy sitting at home using one computer this may work just fine for awhile.. For a guy that uses different rooms it does not.

I don't mind paying the $20 upgrade fee to go to AAX, I just do not want to be tied to their licensing.

Charge me the $20 and let me keep my iLok licensing.

[brainrox]

Originally Posted by IsRael Musiq

That is shady man, if you know your going to "Port something" over to 64 bit less than 2 months later why not just release the 64-bit version 2 months instead of making your customers pay TWICE... Just wow man. I guess when the economy goes down, good business practices go out the window :(

Guys, you blow my mind.

Not a single Vertigo user will have to pay anything, we have all the info on the website, and we're working our asses off to make the whole system work flawless and make everybody happy. (which we will not manage to do, because 'somebody' will always be mad at something).

I am not going to keep on defending something that is not to be defended.
We are not charging people who have bought stuff within the last 7 months, and if anyone doesn't need or want AAX or 64 Bit no need to upgrade.
If we would have gone ilok2 you would need a 50$ new dongle... and would be screaming at us as well. ;-)

Luckily Gearslutz is not always the "real world", we have far more people happy than screaming at us.

Anyway, we will post FAQ replies and we'll have improvements along the road, don't forget it's day 2(!) of the Alliance... and some of you are just not behaving fair.

BTW: whoever said you will 'never' be able to sell your licenses? I didn't.

I am out for a while now.
I will post official news on our website, not here.
Best, Dirk.

[danander11]

Honestly, to imply that you are not using iLok because users would have to buy a new $50 iLok2 is disingenuous. I think by now most folks already have them. At least give us a choice.

Further, the reply I got from support had little to do with my post/issue.

I'm very unhappy.

[ska]

Originally Posted by IsRael Musiq

That is shady man, if you know your going to "Port something" over to 64 bit less than 2 months later why not just release the 64-bit version 2 months instead of making your customers pay TWICE... Just wow man. I guess when the economy goes down, good business practices go out the window :(

I bought VSC-2 a month ago and the upgrade was for free....

Besides that, I know many guys with a home/studio, and really none of them prefers iLok. So the way the iLok lovers reacts really surprises me!

For many years I skipped iLok products that caught my interest but couldn't resist the VCC-tube offer, and so on the VSC-2.

A happy alliance customer here!

[Jtt]

Originally Posted by brainrox

Guys, you blow my mind.

Not a single Vertigo user will have to pay anything, we have all the info on the website, and we're working our asses off to make the whole system work flawless and make everybody happy. (which we will not manage to do, because 'somebody' will always be mad at something).

I am not going to keep on defending something that is not to be defended.
We are not charging people who have bought stuff within the last 7 months, and if anyone doesn't need or want AAX or 64 Bit no need to upgrade.
If we would have gone ilok2 you would need a 50$ new dongle... and would be screaming at us as well. ;-)

Luckily Gearslutz is not always the "real world", we have far more people happy than screaming at us.

Anyway, we will post FAQ replies and we'll have improvements along the road, don't forget it's day 2(!) of the Alliance... and some of you are just not behaving fair.

BTW: whoever said you will 'never' be able to sell your licenses? I didn't.

I am out for a while now.
I will post official news on our website, not here.
Best, Dirk.

Well when your 'new product' announcement is really the announcement of a new business/license model, you have to expect comments and discussion of those aspects. And to call the criticism of people who will be inconvenienced unfair, is poor customer service. No one is disputing the quality of the plug-ins themselves.

J

[danander11]

Originally Posted by brainrox

BTW: whoever said you will 'never' be able to sell your licenses? I didn't.

This too is sticking in my craw... and is disingenuous...

It clearly states in your FAQ that the only way to sell a license is if ALL of the licenses in the alliance are sold at the same time.. and then for a fee.

A poor way to treat paying customers if you ask me.

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by danander11

ONLY if you go with the new licensing scheme!

I do not want to use it. I do not want all of my SPL/BX plugs tied together. I do not want to have to chase authorizations when going from room to room or even machine to machine.

Gotcha.

I'd give them at least 2 or 3 weeks. This is a huge jump and they're still improving the whole system scheme (I've seen several changes during the past days in their F.A.Q's). I also noticed that under "Can I sell my PLUGIN ALLIANCE plugins?" it says "Unfortunately you cannot sell individual plugin licenses at this time", which suggests this method will change.

All plug-ins are tied together now because their authorizations are stored in one license but that "at this time" also says that this won't probably be the case anymore in the future.

Manage authorizations per machine? Yes, I see they just give 3 of them and that's not good for people working in different rooms all the time (I do) but like Celemony they could do it automatically: "you used all your 3 auths and need to authorize more? No problem, deauth one of them and authorize the new one" (this is how I've been working with Melodyne for over a year).

I think people need to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Suggestions would help a lot more than rants, I think

Cheers

[IsRael Musiq]

Originally Posted by brainrox

Guys, you blow my mind.

Not a single Vertigo user will have to pay anything, we have all the info on the website, and we're working our asses off to make the whole system work flawless and make everybody happy. (which we will not manage to do, because 'somebody' will always be mad at something).

I am not going to keep on defending something that is not to be defended.
We are not charging people who have bought stuff within the last 7 months, and if anyone doesn't need or want AAX or 64 Bit no need to upgrade.
If we would have gone ilok2 you would need a 50$ new dongle... and would be screaming at us as well. ;-)

Luckily Gearslutz is not always the "real world", we have far more people happy than screaming at us.

Anyway, we will post FAQ replies and we'll have improvements along the road, don't forget it's day 2(!) of the Alliance... and some of you are just not behaving fair.

BTW: whoever said you will 'never' be able to sell your licenses? I didn't.

I am out for a while now.
I will post official news on our website, not here.
Best, Dirk.

Looks like I am the one in the wrong here for A. Reading here and not checking anything directly myself (Via the new site) and B. Reacting before finding out the truth from the source and commenting on things that simply are not true. I am truly humbled and do apologize that I have ranted about a policy that does NOT even exist. After being gotten by LOTS of software companies in the past (with very unfair policies I.E. having to pay to sell plug ins etc etc), I quickly assumed this was true and spoke without knowledge and made a judgement based on the business practices of other companies without even reading for myself the truth.

Let this be a testament to all other GS'ers to be slow to speak, especially if your complaining about polices (Like I did). Find out from the source FIRST or risk getting humbled to only find out later on you wasted much time and energy on things that simply aren't true! Hope that anyone offended would forgive me for my lack of knowledge (in this case Brainworx) for speaking things that could have potentially degraded the company. Truly humbled by all of this.

I (Happily) stand corrected!

[danander11]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

I think people need to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Suggestions would help a lot more than rants, I think

Cheers

Fair enough.. I have certainly been ranting.. And the FAQ seems to be changing as we go along, it's certainly a lot larger than it was this morning.

My main beef is that there should have been a disclosure on the VSC-2 page when I bought it stating that it would only be supported for upgrades (64 bit/AAX) if the purchaser went with the new scheme. As I recall It was announced a few days after I bought it.. Too late for me to make an informed decision.. as I said, had I known, I would not have bought it.

If anything I bought prior to this one incurred a fee for upgrade, so be it. I understand the porting costs to AAX, (Though only a handful of plug developers are charging for it).

When the next version of PT comes out, it's doubtful that I will be able to use this plug because it's not AAX when using iLok.

Maybe if the licensing was set up differently, such as the way Massey does it with a file that you can carry around I wouldn't mind so much. Still, money is tight for a lot of folks right now.. To sell me something and then within a week say no more upgrades if you want to use it the way we sold it to you is a bit hard for me to swallow. It's not like the plug is a year old.. it's still a new release.

Just my opinion and I've taken the day to settle down. I'll sell off the SPL/BX plugs I have. If it won't go to AAX in a format that is best for me to use, I'll not use it. I have many others that will suffice.

As I said (or at least agreed to), a few posts back, I'm sure that Dirk is a gent.. This scheme just doesn't work for me and I do feel that the ilok limitations should have been clearly spelled out on the plug page.. (hence, feeling cheated), but maybe that's just me.

At any rate.. if anyone wants a deal on VSC-2, or SPL's Transient Designer or Twin Tube, drop me a note. These are the iLok versions.

Peace!

[scanner]

Originally Posted by IsRael Musiq

Looks like I am the one in the wrong here for A. Reading here and not checking anything directly myself (Via the new site) and B. Reacting before finding out the truth from the source and commenting on things that simply are not true. I am truly humbled and do apologize that I have ranted about a policy that does NOT even exist. After being gotten by LOTS of software companies in the past (with very unfair policies I.E. having to pay to sell plug ins etc etc), I quickly assumed this was true and spoke without knowledge and made a judgement based on the business practices of other companies without even reading for myself the truth.

Let this be a testament to all other GS'ers to be slow to speak, especially if your complaining about polices (Like I did). Find out from the source FIRST or risk getting humbled to only find out later on you wasted much time and energy on things that simply aren't true! Hope that anyone offended would forgive me for my lack of knowledge (in this case Brainworx) for speaking things that could have potentially degraded the company. Truly humbled by all of this.

I (Happily) stand corrected!

Can you please post what statements you made which were untrue, just so it's clear.

Thanks,

Al

[danander11]

Ive been ranting here for the last day or so... but I consider myself a fair guy.

I am unhappy with the policy. I love the plug for what it does, (as I do the SPL plugs).. I just find the new scheme an unnecessary hindrance for my way of working. It's entirely personal on my part and from my perspective.

I understand fully that most folks here will accept and use the new scheme and be just fine with it.. But not everyone. I will do what works for me.

Though I do not know Dirk personally, I'm certain that he's neither unscrupulous nor dishonest. If I've gone a bit overboard, I apologize for that.. (it seems to be the day for it). I'm not out to drive business away from the alliance, Dirk or anyone.. It will change or it won't.

Peace.

[bishop666]

Is the neve console emulation and the maag eq4 being done by using a no compromise component modeling for eq, comp and summing?

Or is just the summing modeling?

[freaken]

Hey danander....You in the mtns yet or what! Time for some talks on other things than the alliance, my understanding of the alliance involved skywalker and han solo

[danander11]

Originally Posted by freaken

Hey danander....You in the mtns yet or what! Time for some talks on other things than the alliance, my understanding of the alliance involved skywalker and han solo

Yep.. I'm the confused looking guy living out of boxes and Bunnings.. It's been a crazy few weeks.. and a few more to go.. I just want to get my gear unpacked and get started fitting out this place.

Get wifey happy first and I'll be in the clover..

Give me a shout if you want.. I'll be away Friday morning for a funeral, but should be back that afternoon.

0422 018 310

Peace..


As for the Alliance.. I've decided to just let go of it all.. None of this is worth getting bent out of shape over.. And I don't want to create havoc for Dirk..

[tombuur]

I still prefer iLok.

Several times it has occured to me that we should make a checklist for music software/plugin developers with things to consider when issueing install, authorizing programs and similar.

This list would include drawing attention to the fact that a lot of us make images of a small system drive and then keep samples on other drives (some install everything with no alternative options on the system drive, not considering this).

Another relevant point here authorizing/deauthorizing. It is hard work to deauthorize a lot of plugins, only to authorize again when you go back to an older system image. Perhaps you don't even remember what was installed there only to find you have to reinstall and reauthorize a couple of plugins. Now, with IK Multimedia I recently found that reauthorizing on the same hardware cost me and instance. So could the Alliance perhaps consider an authorization system that will not decrement the counter if its the hardware ID is already known to them?

Obviously there are none of these problems with iLok authorized plugins, which is why I prefer iLok.

[Kambiz]

why do some people start complaining without reading stuff?
as far as i see no body has to pay or change anything unless he wants to


for me 64bit is a big step in the right direction. most people may see no advantage in it and -tadaaaa- they do not have to move/pay.
and regarding ilok: well i am happy with my ilok2 and will still use it for other products, regardless how the new spl plugins handle their own authorisations.


one word toward the plugin alliance: you should have considered using numbers to name your plugins. e.g. "SPL Mo-Verb 2". that way people would understand that they can still use their "SPL Mo-Verb (1)" and maybe get some future updates - but there is a little fee for upgrading to "SPL Mo-Verb 2"