Login / Register
 
Antelope Eclipse 384 converter
New Reply
Subscribe
#31
17th June 2012
Old 17th June 2012
  #31
Gear maniac
 
parisminzer's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 198

parisminzer is offline
Eclipse 384 Review:

The short version: Stunning.

The Longer Version:

Marcel from Antelope brought the full set-up, which consisted of the 384, along with the Trinity, 10M, and OCX clocks.

After hearing all the rage over the 10m clock, I was eager to check that one out. But, why bring these other clocks too, Marcel?

Marcel: I had a 'why, not' moment recently at an Audiophile Showcase I was doing. I thought, what the heck, let's use all 3 clocks, and see what happens.

...And the rest is history

To be clear, the Eclipse by itself is absolutely fantastic. It easily wipes the floor with my current Prism ADA-XR.

But, when you connect the clocks, there is *NO* better PCM converter in the world. This is not hype. This is real.

The ultimate test of a converter is testing it post conversion against the Analog Source Signal.

We setup a Source into the transfer input of my Maselec MTC 1 console. Then, back into the 384 and back out into the Maselec DAW Return.

The result has to be heard to be believed. The DAW return track was *Virtually Indistinguishable* from the Source! Marcel and I, both being experienced Mastering Engineers, heard a *very minute* difference. But, my client who was at the studio could hear absolutely no difference.

This 384-3 Clock combo is quickly taking L.A. by storm. Dr. Dre, Timbaland, Howie Weinberg and Jonathan Davis have already jumped on board. Masterdisk, Michael Brauer, and Dave Pensado are in the queue.

And, so am I.

I'll just be getting the 384 for now, shortly followed by the 10M.

If I was to give a review score, it would be:

384 stand-alone: 91 percent
384 with the 10M: 95 percent
384 with 10M, OCX, and Trinity: 100 percent

Peace!
__________________


Paris Minzer
Dynamic Mastering
Los Angeles

DynamicmasteringLA@gmail.com
Quote
1
#32
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #32
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 562

Clybourne is offline
Thanks Paris,

I enjoyed doing the demo at your place. That A/B switching demo still shocks me every time and it was cool doing it externally on your console.

Yes, the 3 clock thing is raising a lot of eyebrows. I stumbled upon it while trying to tame the top end, which can bump up just a bit on any converter. We've been selling two clocks ever since the 10M came out, so using 3 isn't so far-fetched, it just never occurred to me to even try it before. The result is a very linear response and everyone who's tried it has heard the benefits.

Rolling up my sleeves for the many demos ahead. It's going to a busy year!

Marcel
Quote
1
#33
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #33
Lives for gear
 
dbjp's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 2,296

dbjp is offline
I don't get it..
How could using 2 external clocks, plus another atomic clock, together with another internal clock possibly give a signal more accuracy?
Why did Antelope even bother with putting an internal clock in this product when its sales rep now recommends using 3 external clocks with it?
#34
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #34
Gear maniac
 
parisminzer's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 198

parisminzer is offline
The 384 has the same clock as a Trinity.

But, adding another one makes it sound better.

Don't ask me why, it just does.

And the difference is *not* subtle.
#35
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #35
Lives for gear
 
deft_bonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,904
My Recordings/Credits

deft_bonz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbjp View Post
I don't get it..
How could using 2 external clocks, plus another atomic clock, together with another internal clock possibly give a signal more accuracy?
Why did Antelope even bother with putting an internal clock in this product when its sales rep now recommends using 3 external clocks with it?
Am I the only one that thinks that this is sick? Or are we all going to need to buy for every single digital gear a separate clock?
__________________
.

stardustmedia - murat
high end analog music production
stay tuned thru my facebook fanpage: stardustmedia
#36
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 562

Clybourne is offline
Guys, I can only theorize why this works, but it is working. While I'm not Igor Levin (our inventor) I can say that the science behind our clocking goes something like this. You start with a stable source, in our case an atomic clock or the oven-controlled crystal. Then, you introduce some carefully randomized jitter (often called jither, as it's similar to how dither breaks up quantization error). Now, why introduce yet another clock? Well, this is something very new, so I'm not sure anyone fully understands why it works so well, but the OCX and Trinity have different jitter management modules and randomize using differing algorithms. When these combine, they apparently linearize the signal even better than only one of them does.

As for the whole theory about only an internal clock in a converter can make a converter sound accurate, if this were the case, we'd have perfect sounding converters. But, we don't. Hence the quest to find better solutions.

I will give you this. It's plenty ironic that we put our best crystal clock (Trinity) inside the Eclipse and yet adding multiple clocks helps the Eclipse better "copy" an analog source, but that's what those who have heard the setup are saying. Keep in mind, the Eclipse is plenty powerful in it's own right. We're talking about tiny amounts of imaging and ambience improvements. This is certainly a tweak-head level discussion we're having, that more so relates to mastering and those looking for that extra advantage.

Here are some audiophile reactions from the press about a demo of this we did a couple weeks ago at a high-end show in Newport Beach.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/a...mic-masterwork

Newport 2012: Antelope Audio | Confessions of a Part-Time Audiophile

Gallery: 2012 T.H.E. Show Newport Beach | Sound and Vision Magazine

Regards,
Marcel
#37
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #37
Lives for gear
 
deft_bonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,904
My Recordings/Credits

deft_bonz is offline
Maybe Antelope should introduce a clock to synchronize the randomization effect of the two clocks combined. Something like a Exa-Clock with a stable resolution within a few atto-seconds
#38
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #38
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 562

Clybourne is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
Maybe Antelope should introduce a clock to synchronize the randomization effect of the two clocks combined. Something like a Exa-Clock with a stable resolution within a few atto-seconds


I have no illusions, I fully understand the reaction this talk is going to bring. I also know how people are reacting when they hear this setup, so there's no avoiding it. The least I can do is explain the setup and take ownership for confusing people with it. But, at the end of the day, it's not about what's neat and tidy. It's about what replicates the source and this is certainly the closest solution I've heard, so far.
#39
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #39
Lives for gear
 
deft_bonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,904
My Recordings/Credits

deft_bonz is offline
I understand you and respect your experience. I wonder if the change (I don't want to write increase) of sound is worth the money. Probably there are genres that will pay this amount of money. I'd say for EDM (my kind of business) it'll be overkill.
#40
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #40
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 562

Clybourne is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
I understand you and respect your experience. I wonder if the change (I don't want to write increase) of sound is worth the money. Probably there are genres that will pay this amount of money. I'd say for EDM (my kind of business) it'll be overkill.
I'm also into EDM and that's most of what I master, besides some TV commercial music. I often wonder whether going analog at all is worth it for EDM, though a lot of people do like the vibe you get of tubes and hardware compression, fact is most dance stuff is done in the box. If you just need to monitor itb mixes, the Zodiac does a fine job at that.

I have already a few EDM guys using just the Eclipse to come out and master analog, w/o the extra clocks and they're really happy.

Best I can describe what happens with the extra clocks is the imaging and frequency balance is so well-preserved that most people don't even hear the switch back to the analog source. It's so close, it makes you double check your connections. But, even the Eclipse on it's own, while not precisely the same as the source, is real close.

When guys from Stereophile and Sound+Vision can't hear you switching, you've got something going on for sure. The audiophile experts try really hard to hear every detail. It's what they exist for.
#41
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #41
Lives for gear
 
deft_bonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,904
My Recordings/Credits

deft_bonz is offline
Need to clarify: EDM production, not mastering

I think it's not worth spending several 10grands for EDM when going OTB for mixing. I'd rather spend that on some serious OTB gear plus a serious converter in a "normal" high end price range
#42
18th June 2012
Old 18th June 2012
  #42
Gear maniac
 
parisminzer's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 198

parisminzer is offline
The difference in sound is akin to:

Mastering records is a fun job.
Vs.
Mastering records is just fun.

I feel top level ITB mix engineers will also hugely benefit.

The emotional impact of the music comes across much more clearly.
#43
19th June 2012
Old 19th June 2012
  #43
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 562

Clybourne is offline
#44
28th June 2012
Old 28th June 2012
  #44
Gear maniac
 
parisminzer's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 198

parisminzer is offline
Mine is headed stateside from Europe

I got in on last call. All the units headed to the U.S. are already spoken for.
#45
8th July 2012
Old 8th July 2012
  #45
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 562

Clybourne is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by parisminzer View Post
Mine is headed stateside from Europe

I got in on last call. All the units headed to the U.S. are already spoken for.
Paris, congrats on your new Eclipse. Your studio is sick and just got better, imho. :-)

Who's next?
#46
9th July 2012
Old 9th July 2012
  #46
Lives for gear
 
Magucci's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 553

Magucci is offline
HOLY SHIT!!!
WOW 3 clocks WOW
It's almost illegal
CRAZY INSANE
#47
9th July 2012
Old 9th July 2012
  #47
Lives for gear
 
Magucci's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 553

Magucci is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by parisminzer View Post
Eclipse 384 Review:

The short version: Stunning.

The Longer Version:

Marcel from Antelope brought the full set-up, which consisted of the 384, along with the Trinity, 10M, and OCX clocks.

After hearing all the rage over the 10m clock, I was eager to check that one out. But, why bring these other clocks too, Marcel?

Marcel: I had a 'why, not' moment recently at an Audiophile Showcase I was doing. I thought, what the heck, let's use all 3 clocks, and see what happens.

...And the rest is history

To be clear, the Eclipse by itself is absolutely fantastic. It easily wipes the floor with my current Prism ADA-XR.

But, when you connect the clocks, there is *NO* better PCM converter in the world. This is not hype. This is real.

The ultimate test of a converter is testing it post conversion against the Analog Source Signal.

We setup a Source into the transfer input of my Maselec MTC 1 console. Then, back into the 384 and back out into the Maselec DAW Return.

The result has to be heard to be believed. The DAW return track was *Virtually Indistinguishable* from the Source! Marcel and I, both being experienced Mastering Engineers, heard a *very minute* difference. But, my client who was at the studio could hear absolutely no difference.

This 384-3 Clock combo is quickly taking L.A. by storm. Dr. Dre, Timbaland, Howie Weinberg and Jonathan Davis have already jumped on board. Masterdisk, Michael Brauer, and Dave Pensado are in the queue.

And, so am I.

I'll just be getting the 384 for now, shortly followed by the 10M.

If I was to give a review score, it would be:

384 stand-alone: 91 percent
384 with the 10M: 95 percent
384 with 10M, OCX, and Trinity: 100 percent

Peace!
What cables did you use for clock transport?
Mgr
#48
9th July 2012
Old 9th July 2012
  #48
Mgr
Lives for gear
 
Mgr's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 544

Mgr is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by parisminzer View Post
384 with 10M, OCX, and Trinity: 100 percent

Peace!
From vintageking retail price :

$7,495.00+$6,495.00+$1,395.00+$3,195.00 = 18580$

Is it what you mean ?
#49
9th July 2012
Old 9th July 2012
  #49
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 562

Clybourne is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mgr View Post
From vintageking retail price :

$7,495.00+$6,495.00+$1,395.00+$3,195.00 = 18580$

Is it what you mean ?
That's indeed the rig that Paris demo'd. But, keep in mind, there is an Eclipse/10M Bundle price that knocks off $2000.
#50
9th July 2012
Old 9th July 2012
  #50
Lives for gear
 
deft_bonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,904
My Recordings/Credits

deft_bonz is offline
Yeah but then you'd still need some high end super silver cables that will cost you easily 2Gs
#51
9th July 2012
Old 9th July 2012
  #51
Lives for gear
 
Magucci's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 553

Magucci is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by deft_bonz View Post
Yeah but then you'd still need some high end super silver cables that will cost you easily 2Gs
Yeah definitely!!!
#52
9th July 2012
Old 9th July 2012
  #52
Lives for gear
 
Magucci's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 553

Magucci is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
That's indeed the rig that Paris demo'd. But, keep in mind, there is an Eclipse/10M Bundle price that knocks off $2000.
No, Eclipse/10M bundle is only 95%, No

You always need 100% or even more...
#53
9th July 2012
Old 9th July 2012
  #53
Gear maniac
 
parisminzer's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 198

parisminzer is offline
Hehe.

U guys can make fun if u want, but don't knock it 'till you've tried it.

BTW I've been working this weekend with just the Eclipse and am plenty happy with the results.

I'd love to get a 10m in the mix soon! There's one for trade in the classifieds, we might do a deal
#54
9th July 2012
Old 9th July 2012
  #54
Electrical/Audio Engineer
 
Sony Anderson's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 57

Send a message via Skype™ to Sony Anderson
Sony Anderson is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by San01 View Post
Any pics of the back panel ?
There it is, brother.
Attached Thumbnails
Antelope Eclipse 384 converter-1600-eclipse384_backpanel.jpg  
Mgr
#55
10th July 2012
Old 10th July 2012
  #55
Mgr
Lives for gear
 
Mgr's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Earth
Posts: 544

Mgr is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
That's indeed the rig that Paris demo'd. But, keep in mind, there is an Eclipse/10M Bundle price that knocks off $2000.
Yes it's true, and the prices are the retail ones. In reality prices are less than that, but just needed to make sure i understood
it right.
#56
10th July 2012
Old 10th July 2012
  #56
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 562

Clybourne is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magucci View Post
Yeah definitely!!!
Very cute guys. But, no you don't need expensive silver cables.
#57
10th July 2012
Old 10th July 2012
  #57
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 562

Clybourne is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magucci View Post
No, Eclipse/10M bundle is only 95%, No

You always need 100% or even more...
I think it's important to understand a major part of the testing was done performing a switch between the analog source and the converted digital "copy" or capture. Those percentages pretty much describe how close the Eclipse with the clock combo can replicate the source signal. I was at another mastering room last night and the ME again couldn't hear me switching from source to A/D (which is two conversions). It still freaks me out.

Marcel
#58
10th July 2012
Old 10th July 2012
  #58
Lives for gear
 
deft_bonz's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 4,904
My Recordings/Credits

deft_bonz is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
I think it's important to understand a major part of the testing was done performing a switch between the analog source and the converted digital "copy" or capture. Those percentages pretty much describe how close the Eclipse with the clock combo can replicate the source signal. I was at another mastering room last night and the ME again couldn't hear me switching from source to A/D (which is two conversions). It still freaks me out.

Marcel
So if I'd spend 18 Gs, maybe 20 Gs including some high end super silver cables, I won't be still able to replicate the original sound? I think I'll stick to my only 4 Gs (almost cheap) system

Just kidding

I really wonder if I could hear any differences. I hope I can join one day such an elaborated test with some ultimate gears.
#59
11th July 2012
Old 11th July 2012
  #59
Lives for gear
 
Magucci's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 553

Magucci is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clybourne View Post
Very cute guys. But, no you don't need expensive silver cables.
WHY?
Is Eclipse allergic to silver?
C'mon man! You say that the clock combo worth 11K improves the performance of Eclipse wich costs already around 7K. I didn't hear the combo yet and I don't deny that it might be true. For most people it's like to have a freak-out to hear that you have to spend 11K on external clocks to improve the clocking of a 7K unit.
I understand the importance of clocking in conversion.
But i don't understand why you say silver cables are not needed. If you spend 18K on the whole combo, aren't you willing to spend another 2K on high quality cables to really achieve the 100%?
You wouldn't buy a Ferrari to drive it with wheels of a bike for kids. Don't you?

#60
11th July 2012
Old 11th July 2012
  #60
Lives for gear
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 562

Clybourne is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magucci View Post
WHY?
Is Eclipse allergic to silver?
C'mon man! You say that the clock combo worth 11K improves the performance of Eclipse wich costs already around 7K. I didn't hear the combo yet and I don't deny that it might be true. For most people it's like to have a freak-out to hear that you have to spend 11K on external clocks to improve the clocking of a 7K unit.
I understand the importance of clocking in conversion.
But i don't understand why you say silver cables are not needed. If you spend 18K on the whole combo, aren't you willing to spend another 2K on high quality cables to really achieve the 100%?
You wouldn't buy a Ferrari to drive it with wheels of a bike for kids. Don't you?

I was talking about Wordclock cables. But, fwiw, I prefer solid core copper wire for audio connections.
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Topic:
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.