KRK RP-10 3-way monitors

[lulumusique]

I just thought the low end seemed a bit more pronounced, there was a larger bass ratio than before

Was the larger bass ratio more than what we can normaly feel from a increase in volume?

[lilshamsdabaron]

I've mainly used the RP8 G1's for production, and did some pretty good mixes with them too... Only mastered one song on them, which came out great, but the bass was off... I didn't like the G2's because they took too much of the very bottom out and still managed to amp the upper bass, similar to how BeatsByDre sound to me... NOW THESE!!! I've listened to a few songs on them... The bass problem has been fixed, maybe it has to do with it being 3-way, it's much much much more clear & precise. And it can get LOUD, before distortion, unlike the G1's, and it is a good fit to master on them for the price (at any price they'll work well for mastering and mixing.. not my desired amount of bass for production, but being that it's more clear & accurate i'll have to deal with it)... $499/ea. at Sam Ash...

note: im one of those guys who likes to mix on the BIG speakers rather than the NS10's... I was born in the 90's LOL!!!

[lilshamsdabaron]

well... 91... not too deep in the 90's... ><

[Hardtoe]

I like to mix on big speakers and I was born in 74 - when living room speakers were a force of nature.

[F.A.D.]

Yesterday I finally drove to thomann and picked up a pair.

I really like the monitors, they offer outstanding low frequency performance, I think there its absolutely no need for a sub, and I'm primarily into electronic dance music where typically a sub is recommended.

When I first tested them I listened to all kinds of music (Eric Clapton unplugged, some Michael Jackson stuff, and some other well mastered pieces of music).

To me they sound really open, you have the feeling to sit inside the sound I rarely got that from the other brands I listened to at thomann.

You can hear a bit of noise when there is no signal but it's very silent and you won't hear anything of that noise when there is some signal.

Overall I'm really impressed by the accuracy and open sound created by this monitors.

Here's a photo from my studio to get an impression of the size of these speakers.

https://files.me.com/david.fuerle/3dmrr5

Best regards,

David

[marvingain]

I test listened them today, and i would say that they pack less of a punch then you would expect for the size. The limiters kick in pretty early (i would say after maybe 10-12 mm of cone movement), but you definitely get the volume and deep sub needed for getting the club-punch-feeling and get you up dancing, without the speakers feeling hyped in the low end. To describe the music i produce, it's pretty straight forward techno, releasing on Drumcode amongst other labels.

I would say the KRKs sound a lot like the Genelec 8040, but with a bigger more open sound, less smeared highs, and a little more tight and balanced sub bass. Actually, the mids and highs sound nice and tight, with lots of dynamic range (guess that's the least you excpect from a 3-way system )

BUT with that said, the KRKs suffers from the exact same thing that makes the Genelec 8040 my least favourite Genelecs: scooped hi-bass. The range 150-300 hz is VERY scooped. In comparison to Genelec 8030 and Adam A7x they lack a lot of the hi-bass, making almost every mix sounding good in that area, even the most bass-muddy ones.

These monitors feels great for getting a club feel and to start new projects on, but you don't want to rely on them for the final mixdown. Fun is a word that would describe them But they're not bad, i'm sure you would get the kick and sub right while standing up dancing in in the studio, and after a while continuing working on some more precise monitors.

[CoolColJ]

I listened to them next to Event Opals and some Genelecs at the music store and found it rather bass light for such a big bass driver and cabinet!

The other speakers dwarfed it bottom end wise.

[Fleaman]

Well, considering the size of the amp for that 10" woof, it wouldn't surprise me if they set a high-pass filter higher up (than you would with a more powerful amp) to help prevent clipping too early. That would account for a leaner low end.

[lulumusique]

I did a little research about the power issue (?) . I found a demonstration that shows that the idea of needing a big amplifier for a bigger woofer is a myth.
It can be fairly simplified:
consider a big woofer at a low frequency. We can admit it has a higher efficiency (otherwise you would no try to use the bigger woofer to get more bass).
Bigger efficiency means that for a same spl it will need less current and less tension.

I don't know if the RP10-3 are underpowered or not, but if they are it has nothing to do with the fact they have a 10" subwoofer.

edit: here is the link for the demonstration (if you can read French...) http://chaud7.forumactif.fr/t214-tai...t+haut+parleur

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by lulumusique

It can be fairly simplified:
consider a big woofer at a low frequency. We can admit it has a higher efficiency (otherwise you would no try to reason to use the bigger woofer to get more bass).
.

Huh?

I'll make it simple> With powerful lows you can rumble windows blocks away (think of cars with big subs), that takes a LOT of power, there is no way around the physics of it. Try rumbling windows blocks away with tweeters or big woofers with small amps and let me know how that works out....

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by lulumusique

I don't know if the RP10-3 are underpower or not, but if they are it has nothing to do with the fact they have a 10" subwoofer.

It takes more energy (power/watts) to move a 10" woof over say a 4" woof. Now, you could get more low end freq response with a 10" woof vs a 4" woof with the same 10watt amp (low 10 watts as an example). BUT, you would not be able to play those low freqs at anything but a very small volume/db before the 10 watt amp starts to distort greatly. The same 10w amp will play the 4" woof system at a greater db with less distortion, but it will not of course have the low freq response of the 10" woof system.

Anyway, point is you can't get your cake and eat it to.

[DR Music]

So we basically need a Power amp mod!!??

[Fleaman]

No, as long as you don't push the levels, you'd be ok. But again, that's dependent on the material (rap will tax it out earlier, etc), and subjective (db levels wise).

In a pro studio this will fall on it's face.

In a small project studio, especially a bedroom, probably would be more than enough.

As a living room speaker--would probably be just fine also.

[Fleaman]

Also, there was a post earlier that mentioned these don't go that low, which would indicate KRK might of put a high pass filter of a sort to save the amps from being overworked by sub sonics, etc., so that would help with the db levels.

[lulumusique]

It takes more energy (power/watts) to move a 10" woof over say a 4" woof.

if the speaker has a higher efficiency at a certain frequency then it needs less power to obtain the same spl at the same frequency. It is the definition of efficiency (or sensitivity).

The same 10w amp will play the 4" woof system at a greater db with less distortion, but it will not of course have the low freq response of the 10" woof system

if the 4" woofer has a lower efficiency at "x"Hz than the 10" woofer then it will need more power to drive the 4" woofer at "x"Hz whatever "x" is. Of course if you don't want to reproduce the bass on the 4" woofer it would need less power and if you do the same thing on the 10" woofer it will need even less power.

The whole thing is valid as long as a speaker has a higher efficiency than an other one at the considered frequency.

All I'm saying is: if they would have made the same speaker with a smaller woofer they would have needed more power to maintain the same frequency response (if we consider that the 10" woofer has a higher sensitivity than a smaller woofer)

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by lulumusique

All I'm saying is: if they would have made the same speaker with a smaller woofer they would have needed more power to maintain the same frequency response (if we consider that the 10" woofer has a higher sensitivity than a smaller woofer)

Yes you need less amp power to reproduce a low freq response on a 10" woof vs 4" woof, but at what db level? As an extreme example imagine the KRK 10" 3-way with 10 amps for the woofers and a miniaturized KRK 3-way but with 4" woofs and the same 10 amps for the 4" woofs. Play the same full range (music) signal into both systems, the 4" 3-way will play louder with lower apparent distortion, while the 10" 3-way will fall flat on it's face extremely fast (assuming no high-pass filter is used).

And that doesn't take into account the transient response of a underpowered 10" woof system....sloopy sloopy sloopy. But again, as I mentioned, if you play at low levels, where the amp and amp capacitors have plenty of reserve power, you'll be 'ok'. Fine in a small project studio/living room, etc.

[lulumusique]

Yes you need less amp power to reproduce a low freq response on a 10" woof vs 4" woof, but at what db level?

Don't take me wrong but you don't seem to understand the notion of sensitivity (or efficiency, I don't remember which one is correct). If it has a higher efficiency at a certain frequency then it needs less power to produce the same spl... it is the definition of efficiency (or sensitivity)...

As an extreme example imagine the KRK 10" 3-way with 10 amps for the woofers and a miniaturized KRK 3-way but with 4" woofs and the same 10 amps for the 4" woofs.

Then if you try to have the same frequency response the 10" woofer will have a higher spl than the 4". I bet It seems obvious to you that we won't even try to have the same lows with the 4" and it is because it would need too much power and excursion for the 4" woofer to reproduce it...

I agree with the fact that it needs less power to reproduce less power... (to cut off tle lows=to reproduce less power) you can also set a high pass at 1kHz and you will need even less power. I'm 100% OK with that.

And that doesn't take into account the transient response of a underpowered 10" woof system....sloopy sloopy sloopy. But again, as I mentioned, if you play at low levels, where the amp and amp capacitors have plenty of reserve power, you'll be 'ok'. Fine in a small project studio/living room, etc

A driver is always accelerating back and forth, so if the mass is impacting the transient response it is also impacting the efficiency (if you don't take into account the damping due to the enclosure and other factors that apply to both small and big woofer). In fact a bigger woofer will have a shorter travel (at a same spl) because it has a bigger surface (the travel is basicaly proportionnal to the surface of the woofer for a certain spl). take for exemple a 8" woofer and a 12" woofer. The 12" has a surface more than 2 times bigger than the 8" so it will need a travel less than 2 times shorter than the 8" to produce the same SPL. So the small woofer will need to have a higher speed, a higher acceleration and a higher travel to produce the same transient: keep in mind that the kinetic energy is proportionnal to the mass (disadvantage to the big woofer) but is also proportionnal to the square of the speed (big disadvantage for the smaller woofer). And all this is not even taking into acount the fact that the bigger woofer generaly has a higher efficiency. So it is more complexe than simply thinking it's big so it needs more power.

Once again your are considering the fact that the smaller woofer has less low frequency, but of course if you cut off the lows the transient response will seem better (same thing on a big woofer by the way).

[lulumusique]

A driver is always accelerating back and forth, so if the mass is impacting the transient response it is also impacting the efficiency

I may have been a little confusing but what I meant was that the impact of the mass on the transients should be close to the one it has on the sensitivity (not taking about resonnances such as around the frequency of a bass reflex enclosure)

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by lulumusique

So it is more complexe than simply thinking it's big so it needs more power.
.

'needs' is a relative term.

It's also more 'complex' than simply thinking that you can just go 'big' on the woofer at the same amp power, and have an overall performance advantage (even if the speaker is more efficient).
I say you would have an advantage in low end freq response but not transient response, or ability to produce those low freq's at higher db's.

The speaker/woofer is working in a push/pull AC circuit, the breaking/stopping of the woofer at it's turnover points and it's speed is related to amp power and the mass of the woofer and efficiency to a lesser degree (if comparing say 4" to 10"). At extremely low db's you can get away with low watt amps and big woofs, but once you start to turn up to listening levels (and higher), the mass of the woof and air it needs to move will prevent it from following that AC wave (sound) accurately, which means = more distortion.

Lets make it real simple> This same KRK 3-way, but with 8" woofs would have less low end extension, but it would be able to play louder, cleaner and with better transients.

With 10" woofs, assuming you keep the db level at a lower point, it could outperform/out measure the 8" 3-way. But beyond a certain db level, it won't be able to keep up, distortion wise, with the same amp powered 8" 3-way, Unless it has a high-pass filter built in.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by lulumusique

Once again your are considering the fact that the smaller woofer has less low frequency, but of course if you cut off the lows the transient response will seem better (same thing on a big woofer by the way).

Basically this.

Though I'm not sure why you used the word 'seem better'? The transient response would be better and measure better. Amp power being the same, the bigger woofer would overshoot more, and be slower to respond, hence worse transient response than a smaller woofer with the same amp power.

[lulumusique]

Lets make it real simple> This same KRK 3-way, but with 8" woofs would have less low end extension, but it would be able to play louder, cleaner and with better transients

Probably and the reason stands in "less low end". nothing to do with the size of the woofer

the mass of the woof and air it needs to move will prevent it from following that AC wave (sound) accurately, which means = more distortion

It will have to move the same volume of air than the small woofer, otherwise it's not the same spl.
Yes, the mass has an impact but the travel also does (and a bigger impact).

But beyond a certain db level, it won't be able to keep up, distortion wise, with the same amp powered 8" 3-way

You still don't understand the notion of sensitivity...

[QUOTE]Though I'm not sure why you used the word 'seem better'? The transient response would be better and measure betterQUOTE]
I said "seems better" because you won't ask the transient to contain extra low frequencies (wich are slower no matter the woofer size). set a high pass on anything and the transients will likely seem better.

Amp power being the same, the bigger woofer would overshoot more, and be slower to respond,

Why?

[Fleaman]

I was mostly responding to this comment>

Originally Posted by lulumusique

I did a little research about the power issue (?) . I found a demonstration that shows that the idea of needing a big amplifier for a bigger woofer is a myth.

Of which I then posed this analogy>

Originally Posted by Fleaman

Huh?

I'll make it simple> With powerful lows you can rumble windows blocks away (think of cars with big subs), that takes a LOT of power, there is no way around the physics of it. Try rumbling windows blocks away with tweeters or big woofers with small amps and let me know how that works out....

Which brings me back to the basic physics of your comment, that it's a 'myth' to need a bigger power amp with bigger woofs. Now, we already got into the smaller details, but I want to go back to the original comment and focus on the physics of your 'myth' comment.

If it was a 'myth' as you say, then in theory you can use a small amp (10 watt?) on large efficient woofers (as large and as many as you want) and rumble windows (low freq movements) blocks away vs a system that does it via greater amp power.

Again, I think the point of contention here is the word 'needing more amp power', of which the argument for 'needing more' can be applied to different qualities of 'needing', like extended low freq response? or, higher db low freq response (at low distortion levels)?, or better transient response? You can't get all the positives of those performance qualities by just increasing the woofer size and not touching the amp.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by lulumusique

Probably and the reason stands in "less low end". nothing to do with the size of the woofer

But that does have to do with the size of the woofer!?!

[Shawtyraw]

I am an avid believer in having a studio monitor that has a flat response for accurate mixing. I have heard everything from Mackies to KRK's to Yamahas and I will tell you that these are some quality monitors. I'm not sure for the major studio setting, but for the small to mid size studio setting they are good. I have a pair of yamaha HS 50's and HS 80's and think that they are the most accurate thing that I have heard so when I walked into the guitar center and saw these I thought that they would be the typical KRK bass heavy monitor, and boy was I wrong. The first thing that I noticed is how crispy the mids and highs were, then I was floored how round and clear the bottom end of these monitors were. I did notice that there was a little bass on a solo snare part of the demo song that I was playing, but really didn't see how they had the low end set on the back of the monitor. Theses monitors get so loud that I could barley hear the attendant speak and that wasn't anywhere near the peak. Overall I say that these monitors are and hip hop, techno, and pop producers dream especially if they have a small to mid sized studio.

[lulumusique]

I guess I wasn't totaly clear. All I meant since the beginning was: "if you want the same low end you will likely need less power with the bigger woofer".
By "the same low end" I mean the same frequency range (low extension) and the same SPL max.
By to "need" a certain power I mean to require a certain power to be able to reproduce a certain spl at a certain frequency.
So, to sum it up: to have a speaker that goes down to the same 35Hz -2dB they would have needed more power with an 8" woofer if they wanted it to be able to do it as loud as the 10" woofer. Or in other words: to have the exact same speaker (sound wise) with a smaller woofer they would have needed more power.

It's the famous speaker design issue: one can pick two of the three: small size, high efficiency, bass extension. But you can't have the 3 at the same time. By trying to design "main monitors" they couldn't sacrifice any of the last 2 because they needed it to go low and to keep a good spl at a higher distance, so they picked a big woofer. Of course a bigger amplifier helps, but having a big woofer in case of "main monitoris" was definitely the thing to do because with a smaller one they would have needed way more power to maintain the same caracteristics.

[kickdrummer58]

Just went to GC and checked these out. I curently have a pair of Yorkville YSM1p with the Yorkville matching sub and was looking for more of a client speaker. Personally I did not think they sounded good at all for the price. The M Audio BX8D2 sounds way better and its half the price. I liked the Rokit 8 but these Rokit 10-3 speakers are just so blah. Yeah its more bass but I don't think its a good thing. Not for me.

[hu3436]

I havnt heard them but ive seen them up close at production room in leeds they dwarf the current range of rp series krk's they are a huge cabinet in comparison.

[Jomox]

Originally Posted by F.A.D.

Here's a photo from my studio to get an impression of the size of these speakers.

https://files.me.com/david.fuerle/3dmrr5

Have you got a picture without FX On? (Interested to see)

[CoolColJ]

Originally Posted by kickdrummer58

Just went to GC and checked these out. I curently have a pair of Yorkville YSM1p with the Yorkville matching sub and was looking for more of a client speaker. Personally I did not think they sounded good at all for the price. The M Audio BX8D2 sounds way better and its half the price. I liked the Rokit 8 but these Rokit 10-3 speakers are just so blah. Yeah its more bass but I don't think its a good thing. Not for me.

Well they have far less bass than many speakers with smaller cabinets and drivers like the Event Opals and Genelec 8050, and even the Focal Twins.
You would expect much more from such a large speaker and driver combo.
So if these are too much bass, then then these other speakers would overwhelm you

[Jomox]

SO i checked these out in a quite well treated room overall.

Thoughts are similar to some others on this thread, sound is nice and open, high's and mids seem quite clean overall, they are not the most detailed compared to others which cost the same, but the top / mid is quite nice overall, albeit I think I'd get fatigue using these if using them as nearfields. Stereo image is a bit weird, would not say it's that great at all, especially compared to 120a, a7x and the CMS from Focal, they are not the best at picking out reverb tails I feel either. For me the overall power is not that great either, they go pretty loud and can pump a bit but I know other monitors that go louder in this price range that are 2-way. Power wise they would be okay in smaller room's but if you want to really crank your monitor then you could find you hit the limiter on these more often than not.

The low end is not really impressive at all for 10", though some of the sub frequencies where there the overall low end was pretty weak, especially upper low end which seems to be distant, low end can compare to other monitors in it's price range (Such as 5" to 8") but I don't think it's as accurate as say 120A or A7X. For a 10" it's not impressive at all, though again it does go quite low and you can hear some lower sub frequencies which can be handy.

As said they offer a open and quite clean sound, mid range I'd say is good , but considering the size of them, them being 3 way and their price I don't think they are a very good deal at all personally. You can get A7X for same/less and for a little more 120a or CMS 65, all these monitors I feel are a better buy personally, I'd even say airmotiv 6 are possibly a better buy.


I think the likes of R6A, DMS3, HS80, Airmotiv 6, are more of a rival to the RP-10 then such higher end monitors listed above. Would not be fair to compare them to monitors such as Event Opal, SX etc, though I know fans of KRK like to praise them and KRK fans may like these, but again monitors are personal still so it's best not to get on hear say as onions will differ. But I do think other monitors are much easier to work with and get better results. These can make you work harder to get perfect results (Though if you got use to them I'm sure they would work well for you, as with most monitors)