Tunecore beta released

[Peter Morrison]

I'm not an employee or customer, and I have no personal experience with this company

BUT

Tunecore http://www.tunecore.com/ just came out with in the past few days, it seems to be a really great and easy way to get you or your clients music onto iTunes and many other online music distribution systems with a guarantee that the musician (or copyright owner) maintains all rights and liberties to the music and gets every penny made from the sale.

I invited a rep from Tunecore to drop in and field some questions about the program.

If this program is successful I know I have many clients who would love to get themselves onto iTunes and into such a mainstream distribution system.

so check it out!

Peter

[PeterTuneCore]

Hi Peter and fellow Gearslutz,

Thanks for asking about TuneCore. We're about 24 hours into being a live service, and it's a crazy time. If all gear came with as many bugs as a new commerce website, musicians would never compose a single note! The fires are mostly out, and it looks like everything is working.

TuneCore is a pretty exciting place with an idea we really feel strongly about: artists maintaining control over their own destinies. It's all fine and good for the major labels to swing deals that get CDs onto shelves at Tower and HMV and WalMart, but how can an independent artist do it without singing a deal and with it huge chunks of their potential earnings and rights? It's even more unfair if you think about digital shelves, where space is infinite. It's possible to get there now, but the price tends to be very high, either up front (hundreds, even thousands of dollars) or off the back (percentages of your future earnings). Worse, you have to sign exclusive deals, and sometimes you have to give up your very masters and copyrights. In return, you get promised marketing and promotion that sometimes fails to materialize at all.

So we founded TuneCore. The idea was to make the price so low even a teenager in a garage with his brother's leftover equipment could afford. $0.99 a song? $7.98 an album? $0.99 per album for each digital store, with iTunes U.S. thrown in for free? That's not prohibitive. A good supply of mag tape and a spare box of guitar picks might cost what an average album costs to put into iTunes. But price isn't really such a big deal--you folks already spend tons of money on gear. Even the most glancing hobby musician probably has reasonable cash to spare.

The big thing is, we're a delivery and storage service. We truck your music to the digital retailers, then truck back the money and the data as it comes. We figure we've no right to a piece of your earnings or control over your music, anymore than FedEx might charge you ten cents for every CD you sell just for delivering it to Sam Goody for sale. And we don't deserve to own the rights to your music just for getting it out to the public.

So it's a delivery fee and a small yearly maintenance and storage fee, so we can deliver your music over and over to new services (and we have a copy so we can deliver your music again, if the digital retailer loses it).

That's the 50,000 foot view. It's a philosophy and a service. We hope both will appeal to musicians and artists who've been held up by the "gatekeepers" to distribution, forced to turn over potential revenue, rights or even whole masters, just to get the chance to compete.

If you folks have any questions about TuneCore or how digital delivery aggregators, iTunes or the digital publishing world works, I'd be happy to answer them. Post them here so everyone can read them, or if it's something super-double-secret, you can drop me an email at info@tunecore.com.

Thanks! And here's my gear: a Casio SK-1. Fear this keyboard! It's got a sampling microphone. It's got two whole octaves. Scary.

--Peter

Peter Wells
COO
TuneCore.com

[C.Lambrechts]

Hi Peter,

Tunecore looks pretty cool. I think I might give it a try soon.

[Football]

Hi Peter,

what if you post an "album" and later want to put a revised version of a song on it? Is that allowed and if so is it easy to do?

By the way, looks like you are doing a very cool thing for musicians.

Thank you

[PeterTuneCore]

Hi Chris,

Thanks, love to have you aboard. We hope it takes off. Let me know if you have any problems with the site. Should run smooth, but we're still in beta, and responses are key to getting out the kinks.

By the way, I lived in the North End (Salem St.) the whole year the Sox were in the race. When they won, the whole North End went CRAZY.

Go SOX!

--Peter

[PeterTuneCore]

Hey Football,

That's the rub. Neither iTunes nor Rhapsody let you change. Once it's uploaded, the only way to alter it in any way (even to fix a typo) is to take it down and send it up again, as basically a new album. If even one song needs a change, doesn't matter--they work by albums, not songs.

It's really awful. The cost of mistakes is redoing the whole thing. These digital services are not error-tolerant, and their idea of a song revision is, "put it up again as a separate album." Nothing we can really do.

So we tell people over and over to be sure their albums and songs and information are totally 100% correct. There's not much else we can do.

Thanks, though, and I'm glad musicians have a choice. Our service isn't free, nothing is free, but we figured a reasonable price everyone can afford and a "hands off" attitude towards rights and masters and whatever money their music can earn might be refreshing for artists. There's just no reason for a middleman, not with digital distribution. Take a small fee for delivering the goods to the "e-stores" and ship back the data and earnings, that's our approach.

Heck, that's what PeaPod does. I like PeaPod. They shop for you, they make it easy, and they only charge a few bucks for delivery, no "membership fee" or extra percentage on everything you buy. It's reasonable. I like that.

--Peter

Originally Posted by Football

Hi Peter,

what if you post an "album" and later want to put a revised version of a song on it? Is that allowed and if so is it easy to do?

By the way, looks like you are doing a very cool thing for musicians.

Thank you

[Ol' Betsey]

Hi Peter,

Looks very interesting.

This might not be the place to discuss these matters but hey, we're all friends here at Slutz...

I run a small independent record label (sales vary from 5,000 - 50,000 here in Europe) and wondered if there would be any discounts on your 'book' rate (or other incentives) for signing up entire catalogs? Say 5-10 albums minimum?

I have a direct contact within iTunes but have been um-ing and ah-ing about what to do with the various other carriers out there and have been looking into the various other 'one stop' online distributors before submitting.

Also, this might be a question better suited to my friend at iTunes but... Is the world-wide accounting for iTunes centralised in the USA or would, for instance, a sale in Europe be dealt with 'at source' and accounted to you directly?

I guess what I'm asking is if it takes say 60 days for iTunes Europe to account and pay for a download, does this go directly to you or does it then have to go through the US iTunes therefore adding extra time to the fulfilment of payment?

One last question, and maybe you can add this to your FAQ on the website as others might find this interesting, but what is your (and other directors, if any) background in the music industry? Or any other industry for that matter?

The reason I ask this is that in some ways, as a businessman as well as musician/producer/label-owner, I MIGHT find it more interesting if instead of being say, a music producer, you were in fact the head of marketing at another succesful online retailer. Or maybe you used to work for a distributor that sold 'hard' copies of books and thought this was a new and interesting way to break into online music distribution?

Or maybe your just a guitar player in a weekend covers band that had a great idea?

In the end, it's all the same thing but I'm curious.

More questions later...

R.

[Ol' Betsey]

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea...

But alas another question: For us Europeans (or any others outside of the US for that matter) I'm supposing a sale with, for instance, iTunes Europe would be sold in EURO's (or subsitute other non-US local currency here) converted to US DOLLARS in order to pay you and then converted again to Tunecore user's local currency when payment is made (if not US DOLLARS).

So excluding sales in the US (where, outside of the US, one would always have to accept at least one conversion - US$ > Local Currency) there could, in certain instances, be two currency conversions taking place?

I know it's early days for you and you have enough on your plate already (and maybe you've already thought about this?) but would it be possible to eventually allow customers to have not one but a few different currency accounts?

Cheers,

R.

[Jeff Price]

Hi Ol' Betsy

Jeff Price founder of TuneCore here. I thought I would provide some of the answers to your questions.

To begin, here is a link to background information on all of us.
http://www.tunecore.com/index/bios

As for myself, I co-own a US based independent label called spinART Records. The label began about 16 years ago and has distributed / worked releases by The Pixies, Ron Sexsmith, Apples In Stereo, The Dears, Frank Black, Echo & The Bunnymen, Apollo Sunshine, Kaito, etc etc.

I started the company for two reasons. The first is I became very frustrated with "aggregators" - that is entities that are a middle man between labels / bands and the digital on-line distributors / services ( i.e. iTunes.) In order to use their services they demand a term of exclusivity and anywhere between 9% - 30% of the revenue generated from the sale of the music. This infuriates me as I believe it is gouging.

Take for example an artist like the Dears. spinART worked extremely hard to promote and market the band in the US. The sales that occurred came from the work the Dears and spinART did. If spinART used an aggregator to deliver The Dears' music to iTunes, the concept that it would have to give up 9%-15% of the revenue being generated from digital sales to a company that mearly a package but did nothing to cause those sales angered me.

So, I decided to do something about it and started TuneCore.

The second reason I started TuneCore is I felt the market could use it. It was time to open the doors to the channels of distribution in a simple and equitable way

In the process, I also decided to eliminate accounting periods. For example, some aggregators pay out the revenue ( after they take their cut) quarterly although they get paid monthly. The model we have created allows you to get your money as soon as it posts. It sits in your account and you can transfer your earnings wherever you like whenever you like. The idea that an aggregator holds your money to earn interest or not allow you to get as you have not hit their random minimum threshold infuriates me.

To answer your questions about where money hits, currency exchanges etc - the following is how things work ( for now ).

iTunes pays for music sold in the native currency of where the sale occurred. So, if one your masters sold in Japan, Apple will pay in Yen. However, when they pay in Yen it is currently paid to a US bank. The bank converts the Yen to Dollars based on the exchange rate. When you draw your funds down, it works the other way around, the account you transfer from transfers out in US $, your bank converts your money into your domestic currency.

However, in the near future there are plans to allow the money to hit domestic accounts in each country without any conversion. For example, a sale in Japan could be paid to a Japanese account in Yen with no conversion involved

Finally, yes, TuneCore does do volume discounts. Please feel free to email me directly at jeff@tunecore.com with any additional questions etc

I would love to make this service work for you!

And I have to admit - 5,000 to 50,000 unit sales in the UK / Europe is damn impressive!

Thank You

Jeff Price

[Ol' Betsey]

Hi Jeff,

Great hearing from you!

Wow, I think, in fact I'm sure, we have quite a few mutual acquaintances. We're going back a few years here but I'm sure we have friends passing through the doors of Mute, Cooking Vinyl, Bella Union and so on.

Regarding the 5,000 - 50,000: You know how it is. No matter how hard you work, some things sell and some things don't. I still haven't figured it out yet. I must admit though, as tough as it is over here, you can still do it independently. I/we have just pulled one of our bands from a EMI/Virgin license because while some territories worked wonderfully, there were quite a few that actually underperformed compared to our independent distribution. Huh, a major label that screws up? Go figure...

(In all honesty I must admit though that our highest seller is actually around 47,000 now. But hey, in this industry, 50,000 is a CONSERVATIVE over-estimate and I think we deserve those bragging rights!)

Anyway, thanks again for posting and I'll certainly be continuing this conversation with you via email.

Kind regards,

R.

[Ol' Betsey]

OK.

Having responded earlier based solely Jeff's reply I've only just now had a quick read through Tunecore's 'bio' and all I can say is that this is one MIGHTY team they've got together there.

I'm am very impressed to say the least.

To put it into Slutz-speak 'This is the fukkin' shiznit'.

Take it easy,

R.

[jomo1234]

Spunds like a really great and innovative for the independent artist!

[Saudade]

I feel Tunecore is pretty smart in only taking a one time delivery fee for each song and an annual maintenance fee. I think they realised the truth is that only a very small % of indie music actually gets SOLD at the stores, so instead of doing all that legwork per album and getting minuscle sales revenue cuts (1-2 songs sold?), they get paid upfront per deal, and whether the song sells or not, they are already "paid".

And if the songs doesn't sell at all, they still get their annual maintenance fee payment as long as the artist chooses to remain in their catalogue. This way, whether the artist sells anything, they still earn and at the same time "boast" about a "huge catalogue" in their hands and no "inventory costs". This is a great business strategy since they can immediately profit from the expected high influx of indie artists/labels who sign up (especially due to the attractive low fees offered), instead of "choking" under the strain of coping with the high volume and only earning peanuts from the perhaps 0.01 percent of artists who actually sold some songs.

IMHO digital distribution to an indie artist is not only about how much I get paid compared to the stores themselves. I read about Tunecore at digitalmusicnews.com and they also mentioned alternatives such as IODA, The Orchard, and digitalmediastrategygroup.com. And it seems the obvious difference of these offerings is that they offer to "push" your music at the stores. Get it featured, reviewed, spotlighted, into playlists, whatever.

The truth is almost nobody will "dig" into any iTunes-like store and look for "new" music (they only dig to find classics/hits). So distribution is worth little if they only send it to the stores to be buried under the mountain of music. If I only wanted to get it into the stores I would rather use CDbaby's digital distribution. But if I want my music to be "PUSHED" hard, I would rather pay a cut to a distributor who has the muscle and contacts to make it happen. You may have a great tune, but it has to get heard 1st before it can become a "hit".

I am not affiliated to any one of these companies, I am just offering my view as someone who is looking to launch an indie record in the near future and considering my options. And I hope there will be even more options coming up. Long live Indie!

[Jeff Price]

Hi Saudade

I wanted to answer your post before I went to bed.

you are correct, TuneCore is not a record label. It's job is to provide equal access to the channels of music distribution allowing music to be heard, bought and sold around the world. This is more or less half of what a record label does. The other half - more or less - is the promotion of the music.

TuneCore is an enabler - we want to allow you to be able to create revenue for yourself and give you the tools necessary to promote yourself. As the company is only four days old, there are many more products and services coming that will help enable the artist further.

I agree with you, the two pieces need to go together - if music is promoted and not available to buy or listen to, it kills the ability to make a living from it. Alternatively, if the music is available to hear and listen to, and know one knows it is there, it too will never be heard or bought.

As of this second, TuneCore provides half of this puzzle. The enabling pieces that allow more promotion to occur are coming. However any band, artist, musician and/or writer that has been working hard to promote themselves now have a way to allow the world to hear it and buy it.

There are numerous examples of bands promoting themselves via touring, radio play etc but missed out on opportunities as their music was not available. (Two recent artists that come to mind are Clap You Hands Say Yeah ( who have since sorted out their distribution) and The John Cate Band.)

In addition, the other services mentioned make no bones about the volume of their catalogs. Some state over 600,000 songs, others, over a million spread out over hundreds of thousands of bands and albums

So how many of the hundred of thousands of bands and albums or millions of songs do you think these companies can effectively promote? Perhaps five or six bands or albums get some minor attention over a one month period. How about the next month. An entire new batch of music and releases show up. Is one month of nominal "promotion" ( which I have yet to figure out what it is they are doing to cause this promotion) worth giving up 9% - 30% of the money generated off of the sale of your music for the next three years?

I would rather give you the tools and knowledge to promote yourself and not rely on a company that must choose between hundreds of thousands bands / releases / album and hope they pick you for - well - I am not sure, but something they call "promotion"

I can guess they will NOT work local press, national press, book gig dates, work a single to radio, hang up posters or fliers at venues or lifestyle stores, book brick and mortar sales programs with physical stores. They certainly will not drive the van, lend you money to pay for tour support or work with you to have the current album move on to a label ( don't forget they have exclusive rights).

They also will not be able to get you special placement or promotions at iTunes. If you are not sure about this - take look at the banners within the iTunes store. Track how each one got there.

Let me ask you very simply, can you name a band or a song that received promotion from an aggregator that has justified its 9% - 30% take on the back end and in some cases an additional up front membership fee?

I can not. I am pay a lot of attention to these things are many of these companies have approached spinART Records over the years attempting to gain my label as a customer.

Two other quick things - TuneCore is simply not about "boasting" about a "huge catalogue" in our hands and no "inventory costs". This is a trait found in the aggregators. We are a delivery service and enabler. An artist can terminate everything with TuneCore at any time for any reason. This is not TuneCore's catalog, these are your releases and music, not ours.

I would however boast if an artist was able to get into places like iTunes and sell a lot of music. Due to their use of TuneCore they were able to connect the dots. I think would be proud and excited to have played that role.

The second thing is, I hope every artist, not just developing bands, choose to use TuenCore. Be it the White Stripes to the Harlem Boys Choir, TuneCore is a home for them.

In any event, forgive the rant, its late. Time to turn off Nick at Nite. What ever happened to Donna Reed re-runs?! I can't stand the Fresh Prince!

Jeff
TuneCore
jeff@tunecore.com

[Saudade]

Its good to know that Tunecore is looking to fill in the "promotion" part in future. As I said more options always means the end user will benefit.

But I guess the "promotion" portion can be categorized into at least two types. Creating a "buzz" for a release in other channels of traditional/electronic media would require nothing less than a music publicist (traditionally a record company function).

But what about folks who don't have the budget to hire one? The next best thing is to hope that when our music gets to a digital store, it somehow can get a little "spotlight" to rise above the clutter. This form of promotion is similar to special display shelfs at supermarkets. And given ten different brands of brightly packaged potato chips, it helps that a certain brand is laid out on a special shelf of its own with perhaps an offer price.

I agree the options offered by your current competitors are not ideal. But this kind of "in store" promotion, no matter how short termed, is vital especially for something with "hit" potential. I think we have all witnessed the power of "word of mouth" (or hype if you like) when consumers buy music. But 1st, it has to get heard by enough people before sales can snowball. When word starts to get around, we just have to make sure consumers can type that song name and find it in 9/10 stores. How difficult is that?

I believe one of the major problems with online stores is that people are not yet used to the idea of shopping for music online. It is not a physical store like HMV, where people spend time to browse around and check out stuff that looks interesting at the listening stations. Online stores are a totally different creature. There is no "shopping experience" to speak of, and there is certainly no "visual stimuli" from any physical inventory. Unless of course a particular song is featured on the home page.

2ndly, the problem of the "inventory mix" in the stores. The bigger players will always carry 95% major label releases and indie music is always a second thought.

On the other hand, purely indie stores suffer from their inability to attract "walk in customers". New releases without media promotion is like "unsought goods" to the average music consumer (not those with highly evolved tastes of course). And most people hesitate to browse through a purely indie site to look for new music that is refreshing to their ears. Why? IMO that's because the quality of the offerings is highly inconsistent. Recently I spent some time digging through a pretty well known indie store and was quite shocked at how certain material could be offered for sale. And those were their "best sellers"!

So this 2nd problem can only be addressed by finding some way to filter out the wheat from the chaff and instill some quality control. IMO this is the role of a record company that is the hardest to substitute in the indie artiste world. Yes we want to feel empowered and let no one judge our music but ourselves. But perhaps we are the very people suffering from this arrogance. And the way I see it, these indie stores welcome every bedroom musician just for the sake of offering a huge "variety" to choose from.

Somehow, someone has to find a way to create a "branded" indie superstore that can bravely set a trailblazing track record whereby only truly quality indie music will be sold. Only then it can grow to be the authoritative place (and inspire more players to follow suit) where global consumers can find their favourite music they have never heard. Oops, I borrowed this tag line from the aurgasm site

Only then will the playing field for indie musicians be truly levelled.

[Jeff Price]

I am sorry, but I flat our disagree with some of your statements.

I am the founder of TuneCore but I also am the co-founder and GM of a record label called spinART Records. Over the past 15 years, spinART has distributed over 180 releases including such band/artist as: Frank Black, You Am I, The Pixies, John Doe, Apples In Stereo, The Dears, Vic Chesnutt, Jason Falkner, Richard Thompson, Echo & The Bunnymen, Ron Sexsmith, Paul Kelly, The Fastbacks, Creeper Lagoon, The Church, Lilys, The Eels, Clem Snide and more.

Along the way, we received demos from a few bands that we "passed" Two that come to mind - The Shins and Spoon. Boy was I dead wrong. Both are brilliant bands and I love their music.

So I made a subjective decision about the "quality" of the music.

I also remember standing in an A&R person's office at Giant Records many years ago. He handed me a tape of his most recent "pass" - Alanis Morissette. Admittedly, not one of my favorites but I appear to be in a minority. On the other hand, I have heard major label and indie bands that are, in my opinion, truly horrible, but they got signed and promoted ( to no avail).

I guess where I am going with this is, once I put up filters, they are subjective. I never thought Bright Eyes or Arcade Fire would do what they have done. Not because I do or do not like them, but because I did not hear the mass appeal. I was wrong

On other bands like Weezer, Nirvana, Green Day, Modest Mouse, Death Cab For Cutie I expected them to be huge and they were.

I made a decision when I started TuneCore that I was not going to be a subjective filter. We receive a minimum of 300 demos a week at spinART. And 99.9% of them are not bands we choose to work with. But I remind myself that the people that send them to us pour their heart and soul into their music. they think it is good. Who am I to make a universal statement that its not.

iTunes already has well over a million songs. Its shelves are virtual. Having an album in "stock" does not push out another album. The only way the album or song is going to sell is if there is demand but I can not see how a song sitting on a virtual Apple server will clutter someone's ability to find or buy something else.

All that being said, you are right, there is not doubt there will be some crap coming in. Some of it will make it through. And if it does, as it is virtual, no one will end up buying it but it will not cause something else not to sell.

I agree music / bands need to be promoted. Again, please provide specific examples of 'promotion' you feel these other companies have done to remotly justify their fees and model. Perhaps of the hundreds of thousands of bands you might find one?

What promotion is it you think they do? From my perspective and direct experiences this promotion is all smoke and mirrors.

Also, factualy you are incorrect when you state "The bigger players will always carry 95% major label releases and indie music is always a second thought. "

The majority of the content at iTunes, the other digital services and even Amazon is indie label content. As a matter fo fact, the combined total sales of indie music is rivals major label content ( the long tail theory)

In addition, you don't always need big chunks of cash to promote yourself. Some simple ideas... go to iTunes and make an iMix that contains at least two of your own songs and 10 from other better know bands. These playlists surface and people will discover your music in the very store where they can buy it. Rate any playlist with 5 stars that has your music in it. Email your album to a friend via iTunes. Ask everyone else you know to make an iMix and rate them.

It is possible to get your music into Amazon as well. You don't need to be on a label. Once its in there, review it and rate it. Ask your friends to as well.

Both of these simple ideas cause sales.

MP3 blogs are also a great way to get music around. Type MP3 blog into google and search and email the bloggers

There is a lot that can done on your own with no money.

I agree, if you make music and do nothing, no one will know it is there... but there is a lot you can do without having to give up your rights and money just to gain access to a retail shelf

[Saudade]

Originally Posted by Enabler

I guess where I am going with this is, once I put up filters, they are subjective. I never thought Bright Eyes or Arcade Fire would do what they have done. Not because I do or do not like them, but because I did not hear the mass appeal. I was wrong

iTunes already has well over a million songs. Its shelves are virtual. Having an album in "stock" does not push out another album. The only way the album or song is going to sell is if there is demand but I can not see how a song sitting on a virtual Apple server will clutter someone's ability to find or buy something else.

I agree music / bands need to be promoted. Again, please provide specific examples of 'promotion' you feel these other companies have done to remotly justify their fees and model. Perhaps of the hundreds of thousands of bands you might find one?

The majority of the content at iTunes, the other digital services and even Amazon is indie label content. As a matter fo fact, the combined total sales of indie music is rivals major label content ( the long tail theory)

In addition, you don't always need big chunks of cash to promote yourself. Some simple ideas...

1. Yeah exactly that's what I mean when I said the role of filtering out the "chaff" is THE role that is hardest to replace a traditional record company with. Filters will always be subjective and no one's perspective/judgement is always right all the time. But I still think it is impt to have some methodology to select those truly bright or promising indie offerings. By this I am more referring to those potential trendsetters who are innovative in style/production/concept/songwriting and not those wannabe-<insert name of recent hit artiste/band> who are just cashing in on a trend people set. Perhaps the better way to "filter" stuff is to let every album received be reviewed/ranked by a pool of well-known audio bloggers, respected music journalists who are absolutely independent and have no affiliation with any company etc, so that consumers can see this ranking when it goes on sale. This will greatly help the consumer have a fruitful and pleasant shopping experience, by skipping those offerings that are "not so ready for big time" and go on to discover those up and coming gems. I like going back to the aurgasm audio blog cos I always find something worth listening to. The music there may not be even 50% my cup of tea, but they are almost always respectable and display creativity and musicianship. Even if the author makes $ from recommending this stuff on his blog, it won't affect me cos at least he recommends worthy music and I applaud that.

2. I have already covered this point in my previous post. The more tunes a store has, the more categorisation and product differentiation will be a problem. Like I said, unknown new releases which have little cross media promotion are unsought goods. If you want people to "seek out" music instead of searching for tunes they have already heard of somewhere else, the more new indie releases need to have a prominent voice in the clutter. To a websurfer all it takes is a bright flashing link with colourful flash graphics to distract them and be waylaid to the artiste that is being "featured".

3. I know very little about these companies since I only just read about them. But even if they really do promote 1 out of 1000 bands they deal with, it is pretty much understandable. They too have limited resources and have to concentrate on pushing stuff that they feel has market potential (which ties us back to point #1 about filtering). As an indie artiste I would feel good if they could give me an honest assessment beforehand on how much they can push my song based on timing/current market trends/positioning/standard of my music etc, and let me decide whether to sign with them. That is a fair deal to me. Of course promising to promote every band sounds too good to be true and empty promises suck.

The reason for my original post is not to defend your competitors or to undermine your business. I am just offering my honest viewpoint as a potential end-user as to how your business model may be different from the rest and why, perhaps so that other pple thinking of using these distributors can make an "informed decision". Honestly my perception of these online business may be very tainted and negative, but from your defensive tone which also seem to manifest your disdain for people who are just out to rip off indie musicians (that makes two of us!), perhaps you guys may be honestly trying to benefit the scene after all.


4. Thanks for that info on indie vs major label sales figures at itunes! Shows my lack of understanding of the business. But I still can't figure out the process by which the average consumers actually seek/hunt for new indie releases. I mean, how are they supposed to find good new music (not those they have heard of from their friends, seen live or from the media or MTV)? Filter by "genre" (highly deceptive) and audition each and every one of the hundreds in the results list? Perhaps you should realise by now I am talking more from the perspective of an indie artiste looking to launch an album globally but does not actually live or operate anywhere near where these major markets are (US, Europe, OZ, Japan). Cos I know acts based natively in these markets will never think about launching their stuff into stores without first having done extensive ground work in the form of gigs or through other publicity means.

5. Thanks for the tips on DIY promotion.

[Shan]

I "digg" it. at digg.



Shane

[Ol' Betsey]

Originally Posted by Saudade

The reason for my original post is not to defend your competitors or to undermine your business. I am just offering my honest viewpoint as a potential end-user as to how your business model may be different from the rest and why, perhaps so that other pple thinking of using these distributors can make an "informed decision".

Hi Saudade,

I think for people, yourself included, to make informed desicions, they REALLY need to learn about and understand the music 'industry', and the way it works, much much better.

I think I'm finally beginning to see your dilemna though and I really do feel for ya.

If my assumptions are correct, your an independent artist (or about to represent an 'indie' artist) trying to find the best and most efficient way to get your music to the people, in a (for yourself, at least) new and unfamiliar industry that now, more than ever, seems to represent the opportunity to get your music heard quickly, cheaply and by more people than ever before.

It's not that easy though. Believe me, it's not that easy.

As a record label I've already spent my money promoting my artists. I've paid the press people. I've paid the radio pluggers. I've done the 'co-op' advertising with the Virgins and the HMV's. I've run a couple print ads.

Heck, how do you think those online bloggers and websites get most of their music? Yep, 'online' pluggers. There's a WHOLE new industry ready to take your money to get your 'wheat' exposed from the chaff.

And while there are certainly some great people involved in those respective industries, do you REALLY think that if they're hungry and have bills to pay and families to feed that they're going to TELL you your music isn't any good? I'm sorry but no, they won't. They'll show you a previous 'successful' campaign, whip out a 150 long list of everyone they'll send your album out to, mention the names of a few editors and then happily bank your cheque to pay their kids school.

It's happened to ALL of us. And yes, it's makes you kinda bitter. But then YOU start seperating the 'wheat from the chaff' and building a team around you that YOU trust and then just get on with the job.

Don't get me wrong, I still have a few questions about Tunecore myself but the thing that I appreciate about Tunecore's business model is that not only do they have a proper team of music-related business and technical professionals behind them but also that once I pay the costs/charges up front, that's it.

I don't want to pay a percentage of every sale I (hopefully) make online to a company just because they SAY they'll market my music. I've already marketed my music. Sure every little bit of marketing helps but at what cost?

I'm familiar with a couple of the companies you mention above (and know, personally, one of the founders of those companies) and would honestly have no idea which company would work out best for you (kind of like a mic or a pre-amp, isn't it?) but I do know that not only do some of them have registration fee's but they also promise MUCH more than they actually provide.

Marketing? Physical distribution via Amazon? CD Baby? C'mon.

You're just starting out and you'll learn as you go along but I'm at the stage where I have distribution deals in each territory across Europe, I have an online webshop that sells anywhere from 25-75 CD's a month (not a huge amount but the spare $500 or so dollars always helps...) and with the exception of the 'Direct Export' of my labels albums to the US I have no real physical presence there. I get between 5 and 10 orders every month from the US via the internet and without having to delve into the reliabilty of a whole new set of US distributors (Will they go bankrupt? Will I get paid? Again, admittedly, this is question that could be asked of any company. Even Tunecore...) this is a great, and relatively cheap, way of making my catalogue available.

Who knows, I might even take a punt and eventually spend some money on a small US-based 'online' press campaign. You gotta speculate to accumulate, right?

Anyway, good luck buddy and with whatever decision you make, just go for it.

R.

[Saudade]

Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey

Anyway, good luck buddy and with whatever decision you make, just go for it.

R.

Thanks man!

Yeah you're right I got a LOT to learn, and I was still surfing about this topic a few hours ago and uncovered yet another huge can of worms!

Frankly speaking I am a musician at heart and I wouldn't want to be bothered with all this business shit which I am no good at. I just want to make sure my music bypass record company fogeys and generate a few millions so that I can buy a Tuscany villa next to Sting's and retire before I hit 35

I got nothing against any of the providers, its just that I am as paranoid as the next indie musician about being ripped off. And being physically distant from these markets also means I can only rely on 2nd/3rd/4th-hundred-hand info instead of doing actual ground research and having physical contact with these providers.

But I am not so much like some indie musicians who are (IMHO) too particular about middlemen getting a cut from their revenue. I'm out to get a GREAT value for money deal, not cheap dirt. The role of the middlemen is one of the most common businesses in the world. In Africa, there are still tribes which gather salt deposits and travel long distances across deserts to sell it at marketplaces. If you don't want to pay for the salt, sure, go gather it yourself and see if it's worth the effort.

To me, if I am certain that a particular distributor can deliver a package that will also address my needs in the promotion aspect better than if I were to attempt doing it myself, I will gladly let them take a cut. If not, I will just have to stab in the dark and undertake these tasks myself, which might not necessary end up as a financially wiser option in the end.

I have just learnt that promoting music and getting it to stores (and having it featured) are two quite different processes and ideally should be dealt with separately. Who knows I might end up using Tunecore myself if they add enough value to their package in future and I can find other forms of providers that can give the promotion aspect individual attention.

[Saudade]

oh...and thanks for that link Shan!

[jomo1234]

100% of the proceeds to the artist....I see labels and distributors getting mighty scared!

[C.Lambrechts]

How long does it take (average) from uploading your music untill actually apearing in itunes ?

Let's say ideal conditions ... what you upload is in all the correct formats etc etc ...

So ... I upload February 1st.

When can I go to the itunes store and expect to find my album on there ?

Is there a guarentee that I will find it out there or does it need to pass the 'itunes acceptance commity of aproval' first ?


wondering .....

[PeterTuneCore]

Hey C.,

We say in our FAQ to allow 4 to 6 weeks. That's that absolute outside, under normal circumstances. Usually it's much, much faster. And as we move out of beta, we expecte it to be very fast indeed. Our pipe into iTunes is very clean and wide. I suspect we can get albums to them, eventually, in mere hours. Of course, how long it takes to get up once iTunes has it is entirely in their control. Let's hope they continue to be pretty responsive, as they have been historically.

--Peter

Peter Wells
COO
TuneCore.com

[C.Lambrechts]

thanks for the reply Peter.

[nativeaudio]

Hi,
This looks like a great concept.
can one sign up as a small label, as opposed to being just an artist? The registration process looked like it was focusing on artists only...
How often does Apple pay?

[PeterTuneCore]

Hi NativeAudio,

Thanks! And sure, we're all about labels. Labels have a right to the channels of distribution too.

Right now, iTunes pays monthly. The minute they do, we funnel whatever you earned into your own account page where you can make a transfer any time you'd line. You'll never wait on our account--so to speak.

We even have volume discounts, which would be perfect for labels.

Thanks!

--Peter

Peter Wells
COO
TuneCore.com

[nativeaudio]

Thanks!

I have a small label, with one album so far (physically produced) and another one ready to go... Can non-physical CD's also be distributed via TuneCore, or is there a limitation somewhere about only producing 'real' albums?

How long time does it take to cancel an contract with you... if an artist is picked up by a large label, he may want/need to stop using your service?

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by PeterTuneCore

Hi NativeAudio,

Thanks! And sure, we're all about labels. Labels have a right to the channels of distribution too.

Where does the label name go during the registration process? Under "Band/Artist Name"? I assume you (will) have a system where the income payments are sorted pr. band or pr. album, so the most logical solution for a label would be to register once, under the label name, and not once pr. band? In the current beta version one is only asked for email, first and last name, and band/artist name...

[PeterTuneCore]

I'll answer both in one response.

TuneCore is happy to take albums that haven't been physically produced. Just burn the album to a blank CD and send it on to us. It's all in our FAQ. Read more here:

http://www.tunecore.com/index/faq#WhyCD

We hate to see someone cancel, but it's easy to do it. Just send an email to our cancellation department and it's done. You can do it any time. If you do it for an album that's been with us less than six months, we charge a $20.00 fee, mostly as a discouragement. We don't want people putting things up and taking them down willy-nilly. After six months, no fee, we'll just take it down. To close the whole account, we'll take all your albums down, transfer any money that might be in your account to you and delete your account. BUT REMEMBER, we're non-exclusive. You can get picked up by a label and still be a TuneCore client, no problem. If you really have to cancel, should only take a few days.

Right now, you're correct, there's no place to put your label name. The problem is actually on the iTunes end. We could have you put in a label name no problem, but iTunes doesn't collect that information. Weird, huh? Right now on iTunes you can't search for music by label. At the moment, most labels are "sneaking" around this problem by putting their name in the copyright field. With TuneCore, that field defaults to the band/artist name. The moment iTunes and other stores/services come up with a reasonable way to include label names, we'll be there to pass that information along.

Thanks!

--Peter