New Tape Emulation - "Roundtone"

[quintosardo]

Originally Posted by fradoca

quanto ci vuole per avere per avere il link di download?
ho gia pagato

how long does it take to get the download link?
i've already paid

thanks

Compilati manualmente. Mandato per email.
Grazie per il supporto!

Manually compiled. Already sent. Thank you for supporting us.

[fradoca]

Originally Posted by quintosardo

Compilati manualmente. Mandato per email.
Grazie per il supporto!

Manually compiled. Already sent. Thank you for supporting us.

grazie paisà

thanks paisà

[illacov]

I sent you an email via KVR about Beta testing the plugin on my upcoming projects.

The studio I work out of sees some pretty famous faces, so we definitely would like to beta test your emu!

Thanks

Peace
Illumination

[quintosardo]

Originally Posted by fradoca

grazie paisà
thanks paisà

Ancora più a sud... qui è " 'razie 'mpare"

[Topgear]

I really like the look of the plugin, and the tone is extremely round, which is good for things like acoustic guitars that sound too 'sterile', the plug will also tame spikey material .

But I can't process things like piano without getting nasty digital distortion in places.

Here's an example:

Download roundtone-distortion.wav from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way

The volume was kept very low in the source file, the gain on the plug and volume set low... it really shouldn't do that it this situation. I also tried changing the various settings with no luck (tape speed, tweaked all the knobs etc.)


Here's the same part processed with Ferox tape:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/p3icnd

Even at much louder settings there's no digital distortion with ferox.

If you could get this issue fixed, as well as include an option of preserving more of high frequencies, I think you would have a winner.

[quintosardo]

Would you add the dry file? So that I can test it myself and check? Maybe you set a low "Action" value...
I could upload another effected sample, if I get better results.

Thanks for the feedback

[Jazzy Pidjay]

I bought it today too.

i wait the email to try it myself.

[Topgear]

Originally Posted by quintosardo

Would you add the dry file? So that I can test it myself and check? Maybe you set a low "Action" value...
I could upload another effected sample, if I get better results.

Thanks for the feedback

Alright, here is the dry sample:
Download dry sample.wav from Sendspace.com - send big files the easy way


I am able to get rid of the distortion by:

1) turning the gain down more (but again, I doesn't make sense that you have to turn a gain knob down to below 0, when the plugin output volume is at 0 and the original sample isn't close to distorting or digital 0).

2) turn the "action" knob up a lot. But I don't like the sound when the action is turned way up, since it makes everything lose too much high frequency context.

Ideally, the plug should..like ferox and others, be able to result in a piano without distortion and if desired without too much high end rolloff , peaking right under 0 db.

It takes a lot of enjoyment out of working with plugins when you always have to listen out for digital distortion. There is another terrific sounding (and free even) plug called sir elliots master limiter. It sounds great overall, preserves punch better than any other limiter, but boy you gotta listen out for that digital distortion. That's something the big boys (waves, uad) are great at..it's virtually impossible get those plugs to digitally distort when used properly.

[Surbitone]

Just out of interest, is that vu or dbfs? Can't dl the files at the minute to check.

[Topgear]

Using VU (soundforge wav editor). Like I said, with other plugs used in the exact same progam/context, I can drive the input much louder + more output volume, resulting in distortion free result even though it's louder.

Maybe it has something to do with how the plugin handles dynamics..almost clipping the peaks? Clipping always sounds nasty on something like piano, whereas it can work on say a droomloop...

[quintosardo]

There is a tradeoff between "commercial" and "state of art". You have to sacrifice something from the latter to get something more for the first one.
Putting a digital limiter hidden the whole chain hidden inside the plugin would be very very easy for me, but it wouldn't be how I like it: real straight algorithm.

Many thanks for the test files, I'll give them a try later in the studio (I cannot even hear hi freqs here, small cheap earspeakers )

[Topgear]

Originally Posted by quintosardo

There is a tradeoff between "commercial" and "state of art". You have to sacrifice something from the latter to get something more for the first one.
Putting a digital limiter hidden the whole chain hidden inside the plugin would be very very easy for me, but it wouldn't be how I like it: real straight algorithm.)

Yeah I understand. It's just a shame that this very nice plug where the intention is "analouge and tape", produces this very harsh digital artifact. But I hope it's helpful and maybe something can be done about it. Otherwise I will just stick to using the plug on drums etc...In it's current state I'll consider it a nice colourful clipper which is also useful.

[quintosardo]

But colorful clipper isn't the best way to consider it
I get the best results by its dynamic compression, looking for a sweet spot with "Speed", maybe with a high value for Action but the right one for Speed and Emphasis. Clipping and harmonics isn't the main part, for me...

[yllet]

And now we all are waiting for the uad studer vs roundtone comparison

/Jon

[fradoca]

Originally Posted by yllet

And now we all are waiting for the uad studer vs roundtone comparison

/Jon

i would instead compare it against :

Ferric TDS
Nomad Magnetic

at the moment i'm testing the plug with different kinds of music.
For certain it has a sound.I'd like to have also a wet/dry control
just to add a subtle amount of coloration to the source during the
mastering process.I think it could make the difference against the others.

[Tranny-Cap-Tube]

Quintosardo,
Are you saying that higher frequencies do not get any saturation or compression so you can avoid aliasing? That would not be good.

What pre-emphasis do you use? +12 from 4k up?

Oversampling?

What processing is happening to the high-mids and highs?

[quintosardo]

Originally Posted by Tranny-Cap-Tube

Quintosardo,
Are you saying that higher frequencies do not get any saturation or compression so you can avoid aliasing? That would not be good.
What pre-emphasis do you use? +12 from 4k up?
Oversampling?
What processing is happening to the high-mids and highs?

NO, the full spectrum is saturated, of course. You cannot limit some frequencies and let others pass-through! (you could, of course, but...)
Frequencies are saturated in a frequency-dependent way.
An example: if you distort 3kHz, you get 6kHz, 9kHz and so on.
If you distort 12kHz, you get 24kHz, 36kHz, etc. (if samplerate is high enough, of course). So, why distort 12kHz if you don't get any audible result?
This is what I described in an early post. A frequency dependent saturation.
This is just one aspect.
The other one is a variable, dynamic, equalisation to follow real-tape behaviour.
These two things aren't separated, they are integrated in one algorithm.

How does it sound for you is the only important thing, anymay
(otherwise it is nerdy gimnick)

[Tranny-Cap-Tube]

OK. So you limit saturation to freq below 10k. Is the dynamic eq a multiband eq? How many bands?

[quintosardo]

Originally Posted by Tranny-Cap-Tube

OK. So you limit saturation to freq below 10k. Is the dynamic eq a multiband eq? How many bands?

Nono, no splitting inside! This is what I like. Everything is "analytic" (modeled by formulae) and smooth. No band splitting, no separated processing, no parallel processing and re-combining.
No "limiting saturation BELOW something". No thresholds. It just behaves that way.
The whole effect results from building a model which includes all the parts of the tape emulation in a single multidimensional model. For saturation, dynamic harmonic content, frequency dependent dynamics.
Don't push it too hard looking for nth harmonic, anyway, it is NOT an overdrive.

But this ruins the poetics, letting see the digits inside, ah ah!

[BlackBackDrop]

Tape is all about a special texture. Any sound when passed though tape becomes fluffy. As a child we all had fluffy teddy bears, we hugged them, we loved them and we needed them to take care of us when we were asleep. Humans and animals love this texture.

Our ears/mind sense the fluffy texture and in some part of the brain that texture (though inferred through sound) is represented the same as physically touching a fluffy coat, it is warm and seductive and most importantly SAFE. After giving this a great deal of thought I concluded that this is probably a survival thingy, in that over our evolution we have put a great deal of faith in fur keeping us alive, so we trust it, we respect it, so we let it in....

This is exactly what happened to Bitman’s wife (as posted here: New Tape Emulation - "Roundtone"), the powerful texture of tape (even though emulated and missing a few parts) still easily passed the guards at her gate. This tells me astonishingly that you are onto to something.

Originally Posted by quintosardo

It is based on the principle that we don't need to emulate a single machine, we need to get the "principle" that gives interesting side-effects and discard the bad (for me) ones (i.e. wow, flutter, noise).

But tape is a synergistic effect and you have left out three equally important parts; wow, flutter and noise. I wonder how strong the effect could be with these added, maybe as a user option thus not conflicting with your original principle.

Cannot wait to test it against real tape, how do I get a demo?

[Graal]

I listened to the dry and effected drum+bass test with the effected version lower in volume than the dry one and I still liked the effected version better, because here you can hear how the bass fills the space, becoming fuller.


Cheers.

[parissound]

I can't believe that people are asking for a demo or a beta when this thing only cost a lousy $10bucks. Geesh people, thats less then a case of beer. Buy the dam thing, if you care for it then don't use it.

[Topgear]

Originally Posted by Blackback Drop

But tape is a synergistic effect and you have left out three equally important parts; wow, flutter and noise.

Yeah, you just gotta wonder...how important is a thing like "noise" really? I mean, with real tape it's there because it can't be avoided, it's a bi-product. But I doubt that the noise has many redeeming qualities or positive effects on how the audio is perceived. My guess is, that it's probably more the nonlinear behavior, compression + saturation that creates the magic. It's also not that hard to recreate noise in a vst...Ferox has an option for that, but the other factors I just mentioned are hard to get right. Once you get that down, and I doubt that any plugin has got it right yet, you can worry about something like noise.

[Sonicologico]

Standard deals with dance, electronic, and I find interesting about
sample in general (from low to high frequencies, the plug is defended
great)

I have prepared a demo hoping to please
Sample-Demo

Ciao

[Ruudman]

Originally Posted by parissound

Buy the dam thing

Will do when it's mac ready!

[e-are]

Originally Posted by parissound

I can't believe that people are asking for a demo or a beta when this thing only cost a lousy $10bucks. Geesh people, thats less then a case of beer. Buy the dam thing, if you care for it then don't use it.

I agree. Haven't tried it yet but it has to be worth $10.00. Just purchased it.

[quintosardo]

Thank you for the demo, that kickdrum sounds really different! (more on the "creative" side of effects, anyway)

[quadrafunk]

Just bought it. How do I download?

[avebr]

Originally Posted by quadrafunk

Just bought it. How do I download?

Me too!!!!


Happy and healthy new year to all!
ave.

[quintosardo]

@quadrafunk & @avebr: licenses sent by email!