SSL Nucleus - official info released

[777Artin]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the poeple some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time.


....sigh.....

I thought I's been pretty open about what we thought when we designed this and accepted that it will not be perfect for everyone. It just seems that every other poster wants to say why it's not perfect for them.

FWIW - how about using one of the mic pres in it for talkback??? Got a spare '58 sitting about doing nothing? How about using software monitoring using the 140+ softkeys for talkback if you're a Nuendo/Cubase user?



I'll always listen to reasoned feedback from people about our products. I'm happy to answer any further questions about the Nucleus posters might have (even if they do seem to be coming a bit quick)...

Sure thing i can use a mic pre on the Nucleus. Damn SSL should have put 3 mic pres instead of 2. Then again.......their micpres are only good for that, very good talkback. Hell i can even talkback in stereo. Great!!!!!!!

Sometime working in multimedia and 5.1, i'll still have to use external interface and converters............for 5000 grand. A-Ha!!!!!

Good one Jim

I really don't want your job now.....have fun man!!!

777artin
None Nucleus man of mistery

[tsvisser]

I need talkback with 5.1 surround panning!!!!

Seriously though, I feel that users' TB and alt/mini monitor selection is justified.

I actually appreciate the onboard mic pres. I do ADR on an SL4000E/G and am looking at potentially putting together a mobile ADR rig, in which case the Nucleus would be an elegant solution and with pres that are distantly related to the pres on the main console.

Both of these circuits could possibly be added to the production model either by delaying the release or coming out shortly with a V2 model (perhaps retrofittable) since they are both mods that would be done purely in the analog domain. Might have to break some solder traces to insert, don't know how your board is laid out, but I'm assuming it is probably a single large PCB with a few sub-boards for connectors.

[1manstudio]

Originally Posted by nightjar

Uhhh.....

The terms controller and console and what they constitute are quite variable...

The Nucleus wants to be the CENTER of an engineer/producer's most frequent hand/finger actions in a 2011 ITB "personal" music/audio production system.

Controls for the some VERY FREQUENT hand/finger actions are sadly missing from this otherwise impressive product.

NO Alt Speaker select and Talkback are terrible omissions.

These two HUGE mistakes make this a very frustrating product.

exactly
its simple as that..since this Nucleus is missing those 2 vital studio features Im not buying it..If it had..I would buy it since Im waiting for years for a thing like that.
At this point I could wait if SSL builds a sidecar with those features ,that connects directly to the Nucleus, otherwise Ill keep my Central Station and I will wait for another Nuendo Controller ( and if it will not come out soon I'll stick with a MC MIX).
I remember Apple did retire from market the first release of the Ipod since mr Jobs didnt like the sound of the headphones plug inserting into the ipod heaphones output )))...well..since this Nucleus still has not hit the market..I guess you could still correct it :D
In any case I think i'll buy the Native plugs ..with or without the Nucleus.

[tsvisser]

Originally Posted by 1manstudio

exactly
its simple as that..since this Nucleus is missing those 2 vital studio features Im not buying it..If it had..I would buy it since Im waiting for years for a thing like that.
At this point I could wait if SSL builds a sidecar with those features ,that connects directly to the Nucleus, otherwise Ill keep my Central Station and I will wait for another Nuendo Controller ( and if it will not come out soon I'll stick with a MC MIX).
I remember Apple did retire from market the first release of the Ipod since mr Jobs didnt like the sound of the headphones plug inserting into the ipod heaphones output )))...well..since this Nucleus still has not hit the market..I guess you could still correct it :D
In any case I think i'll buy the Native plugs ..with or without the Nucleus.

I don't really see a sidecar working, as you'd have to reach far to the right side to simply press talkback, which rightfully should be right in the middle section.

[nightjar]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

I need talkback with 5.1 surround panning!!!!

Seriously though, I feel that users' TB and alt/mini monitor selection is justified.

I actually appreciate the onboard mic pres. I do ADR on an SL4000E/G and am looking at potentially putting together a mobile ADR rig, in which case the Nucleus would be an elegant solution and with pres that are distantly related to the pres on the main console.

Both of these circuits could possibly be added to the production model either by delaying the release or coming out shortly with a V2 model (perhaps retrofittable) since they are both mods that would be done purely in the analog domain. Might have to break some solder traces to insert, don't know how your board is laid out, but I'm assuming it is probably a single large PCB with a few sub-boards for connectors.

Excellent Post.

These two features (Alt Speaker, Talkback) would be relatively easy to engineer in.

SSL should delay the release and correct this serious design mistake.

[nightjar]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

I don't really see a sidecar working, as you'd have to reach far to the right side to simply press talkback, which rightfully should be right in the middle section.

Correct.

A "sidecar" would be very kludgy and defeats the very concept of Nucleus in and of itself.

[1manstudio]

Originally Posted by nightjar

Correct.

A "sidecar" would be very kludgy and defeats the very concept of Nucleus in and of itself.

thats right for sure...but could be a work around for those who need those features.Anyway, even if the talkback mic should stay on the sidecar , the TB button could be one of those multifunctions on the Nucles that activates the talkback condenser on the sidecar via the ethernet cable....
Otherswise SSL....wait another some time to release it and give us a REAL Nucleus piece of kit..

[Tube World]

I also agree that alt monitors button and talk back should be included.

Regarding those who already have the SSL plug ins, I would suggest SSL give those who are registered users a discount on the Nucelus.

In addition, I would request that you guys act like professionals and not 18 year old kids. SSL is nice enough to talk to us here, so please be polite with your questions, and keep the dumb statments off gearslutz. If your disapointed that it is missing talkback thats' fine, but just don't be arrogant about it.

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by nightjar

These two features (Alt Speaker, Talkback) would be relatively easy to engineer in.

SSL should delay the release and correct this serious design mistake.

There's no mistake! tutt

At a company like SSL, design decisions are made with top audio pro's, Harvard MBA's, and everything in between, all around a table to weigh all the possibilities.

They obviously observed that a majority of people wanting talkback and alt speakers, are in multi room setups, with expensive monitors and dedicated controllers, that have talkback built in. They know that they're missing a minority, but all products miss some folks. Adding in these features (to widen the potential buyer base) didn't make sense economically, otherwise they would be there. Products also have target prices to meet certain buyers. So it's a constant juggling match for gear makers.

If this product doesn't answer your needs, it's simply not for you. If there's a little redundency with the gear you have, you can alway sell it off.

The native plugs are (imo) kind of a freebie that they can throw in at zero cost. I wouldn't expect discounts of any kind. thumbsup

[jjdpro]

Where do I start..

I disagree with your point .that "There is no need to be on firewire. Even the RME (UC) Video statesthat one that USB has suffered the same problems that has plagued FireWire. And, that's Manufacturers changing their USB & Fireweire Chipsets without informing anyone.

But, If SSL or any other Pro-audio manufacturer has put the R&D behind their USB implementation, then it's a no brainer.

But, as it stands, PC(Mac/Win) manufacturers seem to use the cheapest chicpsets they can get their hands on.

Originally Posted by warmer

So that when Apple decide to change their Firewire chipset again it messes everything up? For the I/O available there is no reason to be firewire

RME: Fireface UC

Now if SSL can match RME's implementation I'm not sure and haven't had a chance to test it yet but to keep going to about poor/cheap/blah emotive words towards this without having used it seems odd.

[nightjar]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

There's no mistake! tutt

At a company like SSL, design decisions are made with top audio pro's, Harvard MBA's, and everything in between, all around a table to weigh all the possibilities.

They obviously observed that a majority of people wanting talkback and alt speakers, are in multi room setups, with expensive monitors and dedicated controllers, that have talkback built in. They know that they're missing a minority, but all products miss some folks. Adding in these features (to widen the potential buyer base) didn't make sense economically, otherwise they would be there. Products also have target prices to meet certain buyers. So it's a constant juggling match for gear makers.

You are wrong....

The cost of including Alt Speaker switch and Talkback would have been TRIVIAL....

Really.... these two essential features would have been among the cheapest to implement.

And Talkback is NOT a feature for just a multi-room set-up.

In fact.... Many of the target users of this product have their production space in their households...

Consequently working ITB over head phones is VERY necessary during the times when you must work quietly....

[RaySoul]

I have not read the whole thread so, please excuse me if someone has made this point. But at this price point, the exclusion of talkback is especially profound because the X Desk does have a master section that includes it. This unit seems much more suited to my needs than the X Desk, which has features it does not. Seems a huge oversight in that case...

[1manstudio]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

There's no mistake! tutt

At a company like SSL, design decisions are made with top audio pro's, Harvard MBA's, and everything in between, all around a table to weigh all the possibilities.

They obviously observed that a majority of people wanting talkback and alt speakers, are in multi room setups, with expensive monitors and dedicated controllers, that have talkback built in. They know that they're missing a minority, but all products miss some folks. Adding in these features (to widen the potential buyer base) didn't make sense economically, otherwise they would be there. Products also have target prices to meet certain buyers. So it's a constant juggling match for gear makers.

If this product doesn't answer your needs, it's simply not for you. If there's a little redundency with the gear you have, you can alway sell it off.

The native plugs are (imo) kind of a freebie that they can throw in at zero cost. I wouldn't expect discounts of any kind. thumbsup

From what you say....major brands would never fail a product..but they fail cars...music albums...biscuits and also pro audio gear. With this, Im not saying that the Nucleus is not a good product but it FAILS for many many potential customers. And excuse me..Im an audio pro like most of us here, and even if IM not an important personality at all..I work as a pro in a pro environment. After all SSL is not selling zillions of those , like a behringer cheap mixer..so..the opinion of pros here I guess is something to be taken in consideration. OTHERWISE Jim would not write on here..Correct?

[Toonman]

Hey Jim. Thanks a lot for the answers you've given us so far... I've got a few questions for you around the Nucleus, that are maybe a little bit more on the "what next" realm, if you will...

In its current form, the Nucleus seems to be exactly what I wanted... a control surface, that I can also use as an audio interface. 2 inputs are just fine for me, since I record one part at a time, and I do a lot of stuff ITB (not recording drums, for example). The inlcuded mic pres mean I can get rid of my current audio interface (which has pres of lesser quality than what you provide, I'm sure), and I can hook up my monitors directly to the unit (if I grow to have more monitors, I can add a monitor controller). As for the talkback issue, I had thought of exactly the same solution you proposed... just hook up a mic to the un-used pre, and route it accordingly (I'd need to make sure it works).

Now, where I'm a bit lost, is in that I don't see any room to grow outside from the Nucleus. In the future, I want to expand a little bit so that I can start incorporating a bigger mixing setup for my studio. This means, having access to outboard, and eventually, adding a summing mixer. Obviously, my first thought was, let's say I add an Xrack or Xdesk. To be able to send my tracks onto them, it seems it will still need a big audio interface. In this case, the interface part of the Nucleus becomes obsolete, and I'm left with the controller. And since I had to resort to an additional interface, the pre's are also kinda redundant, which leaves the Nucleus with only the control surface being of unique value.

I was expecting this unit to have some form of interfacing with an Xdesk, to be able to support the workflow outlined above (plus, maybe, using several pres with an Xdesk to track a drumkit that goes into the Nucleus)... however, being that the Nucleus is only 2x2, none of the "expansion" paths that I imagine seem feasible without incorporating external gear that would be somewhat redundant with the Nucleus.

Could you elaborate a little bit on SSL's vision of the Project Studio? How do you see all this gear playing together? I'm truly confused in here. So far, it seems to be that, in my own personal scenario, I would be able to grow in the direction I want by picking a large audio interface (i.e. Profire 2626) and a nice control surface (i.e. Euphonix MC Mix (x2) and MC Control), instead of going the SSL route.

If you're targeting Project Studios, it seems to me these are the kind of setups you'd be encountering... granted, an M-Audio unit is not exactly "SSL-quality", but let's face it, there are a LOT more variables in this equation than just "quality" and "reputation". If I was producing on a laptop... geez... the Nucleus doesn't look like a piece of gear I'd like to carry around!

I'm honestly enthusiastic about the direction SSL has taken in recent years. So far, you're one of the very few "big players" paying close attention to the Project Studio environment. It's just that the Nucleus left me both very excited, and very puzzled... some help would go a long way! Thanks!

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by jjdpro

What are you talking about:

1- $5000.00 for the bedroom (ITB) guy/gal, will not spend that much

2-You stated that RME added USB2 to their ...Wait for it..FireWire interface.

3-Needs a Master fader. Only Digi does this dumb no-master fader thing

4-Again for $5k, some kind of talk back could've included. Home trackers do record vocals and other analog tracks.

Nice looking unit.. Cost too much for what you get (imho).

What is your problem?

1.
This product is not meant for pure hobbyists.... I am sure.
SSL adresses Pros like: Film-Composers, Project Studios or Broadcast-Companies etc.
At least people who earn cash with their studio-

No bed room girls and boys who do some beats and sing a little bit.
SSL is a professional company with a long tradition and I guess they never saw their customers in pure hobbyists.

They have a big experience in building pro audio gear and I think they do not need your arrogant advises.

2.
Wrong RME did a USB 2.0 Fire-Face Interface....fully functional.

3.
Read what SSL wrote:
Every fader can be the master fader.

4.
I am pretty sure every feature makes such a product more an more expensive-
SSL decided not to use talkback, is that so hard to believe?

If you don't like the product please stay away from this topic because in this case this product is not the right thing for you.

[nightjar]

Originally Posted by Toonman

Now, where I'm a bit lost, is in that I don't see any room to grow outside from the Nucleus. In the future, I want to expand a little bit so that I can start incorporating a bigger mixing setup for my studio. This means, having access to outboard, and eventually, adding a summing mixer.

The Nucleus is best suited for music production professionals that are happy working ITB and see this technology as only getting better and better..... professionals that don't see their expansion plans moving towards outboard gear and analog summing.

Let's move forward.

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by nightjar

The Nucleus is best suited for music production professionals that are happy working ITB and see this technology as only getting better and better..... professionals that don't see their expansion plans moving towards outboard gear and analog summing.

Let's move forward.

Mh as I understand the product line of SSL they also have a solution for this.
Called: Matrix or X Desk.

Just because they don't address your needs this does not mean this product is bad. E.G They address the needs by thousands of film composers working fully ITB.

And did you read that you can route outboard to the mix bus.
If you want a fully routing thing go with the matrix.

You are professional so go with a professional solution.

[nightjar]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

Mh as I understand the product line of SSL they also have a solution for this.
Called: Matrix or X Desk.

Just because they don't address your needs this does not mean this product is bad. E.G They address the needs by thousands of film composers working fully ITB.

And did you read that you can route outboard to the mix bus.
If you want a fully routing thing go with the matrix.

You are professional so go with a professional solution.

I own multiple setups.... Full-on analog rooms, hybrid rooms, full ITB rooms...

I appreciate them all.

However, the Nucleus is best thought of as SSL's answer to working ITB.... and STAYING ITB for now AND later...

There is no indication that the Nucleus is a starting point to smartly grow into a hybrid setup.

Perhaps there will be a remotely-controlled X-Rack system at some point that a Nucleus could talk to.

But I highly, highly, highly, highly doubt it.

[Killahurts]

Tell you what, I wish SSL did make a serious console center section, one that had a controllable surround monitor out with bass management (like the AWS 900), a controllable stereo talent cue, and talkback. I would pay $5000 for that TODAY!

Actually, I'm about to pay that for another company's solution.

FWIW, I like the Nucleus. It's not for me, but it is a cool product, albeit a bit pricey.

[work2do]

Originally Posted by RaySoul

I have not read the whole thread so, please excuse me if someone has made this point. But at this price point, the exclusion of talkback is especially profound because the X Desk does have a master section that includes it. This unit seems much more suited to my needs than the X Desk, which has features it does not. Seems a huge oversight in that case...

my guess is SSL made sure X-Desk would not become obsolete and would prefer you use Nucleus with an X-Desk. SSL quality 16 audio channels, inserts, 16 fader daw controller, monitor section, auxes, etc. for about $7500 street. Matrix is $23,000

as far as multichannel FW digital outs. Having stable drivers for mac/pc would just be another headache judging by Duende. Lexicon, A&H, and a few other companies have had those issues in the past too.

[champ]

Funny how people get Apple in the situation.

Because every time Apple brings out new stuff loads of Appleslutz go nuts about things that are not included etc. etc.

1 month later they all bought it anyway.

[nightjar]

Originally Posted by work2do

my guess is SSL made sure X-Desk would not become obsolete and would prefer you use Nucleus with an X-Desk. SSL quality 16 audio channels, inserts, 16 fader daw controller, monitor section, auxes, etc. for about $7500 street.

Nope.

Those two devices (Nucleus and X-Desk) compete for the same desktop workspace.

They are not designed to be "elegant" complementary products - though they can be used in that way in a kludgy fashion

Jim@SSL said himself earlier in this thread that they see the Nucleus+Laptop=complete SSL system.

SSL simply blew it with regards to Talkback and Alt Speaker switch.

[nightscope]

Originally Posted by Tube World

In addition, I would request that you guys act like professionals and not 18 year old kids. SSL is nice enough to talk to us here, so please be polite with your questions, and keep the dumb statments off gearslutz. If your disapointed that it is missing talkback thats' fine, but just don't be arrogant about it.

Exactly.

ns

[Animus]

I'm arguably this product's proclaimed target audience--bedroom/project studio. I wouldn't get this for a couple reasons. Mainly because it has no expansion capabilities in terms of ADAT i/o. You are pretty much stuck with nowhere to go if you need AES inputs or more analog i/o for example. If they would have put two ADATs on it would have been a winner. Then you might say you can just use it as a control surface and use your own audio interface. That would then make it a 5k controller. Just not worth it. It would have been a perfect if someone was just starting out and needed something all-inclusive--controller, preamps, monitoring, audio interface--but with the lack of expandability it doesn't make sense and it would be better to go a more modular way with buying pieces as needed.

[jdunn]

Jeez people. If you need surround monitoring and can afford all those speakers, just buy a dedicated external monitor controller. They often include talkback as well.

[tsvisser]

Originally Posted by Animus

I'm arguably this product's proclaimed target audience--bedroom/project studio. I wouldn't get this for a couple reasons. Mainly because it has no expansion capabilities in terms of ADAT i/o. You are pretty much stuck with nowhere to go if you need AES inputs or more analog i/o for example. If they would have put two ADATs on it would have been a winner. Then you might say you can just use it as a control surface and use your own audio interface. That would then make it a 5k controller. Just not worth it. It would have been a perfect if someone was just starting out and needed something all-inclusive--controller, preamps, monitoring, audio interface--but with the lack of expandability it doesn't make sense.

I don't think this was ever designed to be anything but a very basic interface. Most people would probably be running larger 8x8 or 16x16+ audio interfaces with their setups if needed. The 2+2x2 audio interface is just there in case you need it, or really likely to be patched into a larger setup anyways.

[Toonman]

Originally Posted by Animus

I'm arguably this product's proclaimed target audience--bedroom/project studio. I wouldn't get this for a couple reasons. Mainly because it has no expansion capabilities in terms of ADAT i/o. You are pretty much stuck with nowhere to go if you need AES inputs or more analog i/o for example. If they would have put two ADATs on it would have been a winner. Then you might say you can just use it as a control surface and use your own audio interface. That would then make it a 5k controller. Just not worth it. It would have been a perfect if someone was just starting out and needed something all-inclusive--controller, preamps, monitoring, audio interface--but with the lack of expandability it doesn't make sense.

My same concern. I mean... if you're purely composing/producing ITB, and only record 2 sources at a time, do you really need 16 automated faders??

If you need 16 automated faders, I guess it's because you're mixing... so wouldn't you want to grow your setup when you need? I dunno... maybe it's just me, but the idea of being eternally ITB is a bit discouraging...

[nightjar]

Originally Posted by jdunn

Jeez people. If you need surround monitoring and can afford all those speakers, just buy a dedicated external monitor controller. They often include talkback as well.

Surround Monitoring is an entirely different issue....

That would greatly change the product and it's price point...

Stereo is fine for music production.

BUT even basic MUSIC production setup needs convenient Talkback (even just for two guys working in a home setup... gotta work quietly while others are in the house....)

An external monitor controller competes for the same desktop workspace.

For the few bucks it would have cost to include Alt Speaker select and Talkback, it is very sad that they have been omitted.

Really kills the potential elegance of this product.

[Animus]

Originally Posted by tsvisser

I don't think this was ever designed to be anything but a very basic interface. Most people would probably be running larger 8x8 or 16x16+ audio interfaces with their setups if needed. The 2+2x2 audio interface is just there in case you need it, or really likely to be patched into a larger setup anyways.

That doesn't make sense. For one it's assuming the small project studio has lot's of money for different setups. 5k for just one of these setups, the smaller one at that? As a small project studio I don't like switching setups. What's the reason? For the road and a laptop? Would I really lug around that fairly big Nucleus with me?

[nightjar]

Originally Posted by Animus

I'm arguably this product's proclaimed target audience--bedroom/project studio. I wouldn't get this for a couple reasons. Mainly because it has no expansion capabilities in terms of ADAT i/o. You are pretty much stuck with nowhere to go if you need AES inputs or more analog i/o for example. If they would have put two ADATs on it would have been a winner. Then you might say you can just use it as a control surface and use your own audio interface. That would then make it a 5k controller. Just not worth it. It would have been a perfect if someone was just starting out and needed something all-inclusive--controller, preamps, monitoring, audio interface--but with the lack of expandability it doesn't make sense.

The Nucleus is fine without ADAT I/O....

Why would you want to pump this data through the Nucleus on its way to your computer??? Nothing is gonna happen to this data as it moves through the Nucleus.

Let a controller be a controller.... A device to convert the actions of your hands/fingers into data that controls processes that happen elsewhere.