Roland (Funeral for an old friend)

[sinelanguage]

OK so Sept 1st has come, and Roland has puked out a bunch of repackages and hoped to G-d that calling them "NEW" products would have some placebo effect. ANOTHER JUNO! YAH! Roland CONNECT - GAIA Synthesizer Sound Designer: Software for SH-01

The only one I will call out as insult to injury, is the GAIA software. TELL ME WHY at this day in age, why ANYONE would make a software companion to their hardware synth, without DAW integration? It seems to me, IMHO, if you watch the video and read the description, this software simply mirrors the GAIA, and doesn't offer any functionality advantage what so ever! And its the GAIA for **** sakes. I mean its got the sliders and knobs, its got a decent interface, so Roland decided to introduce software that simply produces a picture of whats right in front of their face just in case someone is tired of TOUCHING things

OK there's my specific product rant, and believe me I'm holding back, because to be honest (and this is where the "FUNERAL FOR A FRIEND" comes in; I feel almost a bit angry at Roland. I feel like, capitalism has gotten the best of what once was a producer of inspirational and heart warming electronic instruments. Almost the entire Roland line from the 70's to the JD800, to the D50 is still some of the most saught after, highest priced instruments in the vintage market, and compare contrast, I can get an MC303 for $50 on CL.

I know the reasons why, I don't pretend to not understand, but from someone who has promised himself a Jupiter 8 one day when I save enough; its just sad, its like watching an old friend go down the wrong path and there's nothing you can do to stop them. So RIP the Roland I once knew. RIP and thank you for all the amazing music and sound and tone color and tone you gave us from the 70's to 90's, but I think your release of "NEW AND EXCITING" products today, proves, you have jumped the shark 50 times over back and forth, and all that "Roland legacy" shit you put on your sites, is all it is, simply a legacy, as you have proven time and time again in this millennium you have no intention of continuing it. Again, IMHO.

[anearforgear]

Moan zone.

[sinelanguage]

I guess this is more moaning than product, but what's a gearslut supposed to do if he/she is moaning over a new product announcement/launch?

[elambo]

It's a new product.

(sorta)

[everyday]

very dramatic introduction to a new product...

Originally Posted by sinelanguage

OK so Sept 1st has come, and Roland has puked out a bunch of repackages and hoped to G-d that calling them "NEW" products would have some placebo effect. ANOTHER JUNO! YAH! Roland CONNECT - GAIA Synthesizer Sound Designer: Software for SH-01

The only one I will call out as insult to injury, is the GAIA software. TELL ME WHY at this day in age, why ANYONE would make a software companion to their hardware synth, without DAW integration? It seems to me, IMHO, if you watch the video and read the description, this software simply mirrors the GAIA, and doesn't offer any functionality advantage what so ever! And its the GAIA for **** sakes. I mean its got the sliders and knobs, its got a decent interface, so Roland decided to introduce software that simply produces a picture of whats right in front of their face just in case someone is tired of TOUCHING things

OK there's my specific product rant, and believe me I'm holding back, because to be honest (and this is where the "FUNERAL FOR A FRIEND" comes in; I feel almost a bit angry at Roland. I feel like, capitalism has gotten the best of what once was a producer of inspirational and heart warming electronic instruments. Almost the entire Roland line from the 70's to the JD800, to the D50 is still some of the most saught after, highest priced instruments in the vintage market, and compare contrast, I can get an MC303 for $50 on CL.

I know the reasons why, I don't pretend to not understand, but from someone who has promised himself a Jupiter 8 one day when I save enough; its just sad, its like watching an old friend go down the wrong path and there's nothing you can do to stop them. So RIP the Roland I once knew. RIP and thank you for all the amazing music and sound and tone color and tone you gave us from the 70's to 90's, but I think your release of "NEW AND EXCITING" products today, proves, you have jumped the shark 50 times over back and forth, and all that "Roland legacy" shit you put on your sites, is all it is, simply a legacy, as you have proven time and time again in this millennium you have no intention of continuing it. Again, IMHO.

[Silver Sonya]

Before this gets duly moved to the moan zone, I just wanna say this: Roland in the '80s and '90s didn't have to deal with Native Instruments and Reason and Arturia and Spectrasonics and small indie developers doing miraculous impressions of Buchla synths. Y'know?

A lot of inspiring stuff is happening in the software world these days. A semi-desultory synthesizer that uses a botanical DNA model, for example. Stuff like that.

It's a different time. Give 'em a break. Rough time for hardware makers, where the production costs are higher.

- c

[fantomen]

I kinda agree... it is still a pity they didn't go the software way... my good old JP8080 (and the likes) in native would have been unbelievable... a pity they chose (IMHO) the wrong way (similar to Korg).

[thebaron]

Yea there's more competition but you can't argue some of Roland's developmental shortcomings. They still sell the SPD-S which came out in 2005. There's no reason that they at least can't add some more in and outs, more hard drive storage and update the sampling/computer technology.

Their flagship TD20 drum module only recently got an update to allow it to see compact flash cards larger than 512meg!?! It's hard to even buy 512 cards anymore! Also, they recently reissued it in a different color, more or less, and raised the price of it's good, but old technology.

Also, Roland charges an arm and a leg for updates...unlike the above mentioned competing soft synth companies.

[ionian]

I have to admit, as a long time keyboard player that the last 10-15 years or so, Korg and Roland have really not interested me a bit, after sustaining me for many years. I've been using Nord stuff which has blown me away.

Considering I thought I was done with Roland, I have to admit that I took a chance and bought the somewhat new VP-770 keyboard and have to say that for what it's capable of, in a live setting, really blows me away. It's the only roland product in the past 10 years or so that has really done that to me.

I never though I'd own another Roland product as they quickly seem to be going the way of Casio in terms of product but yeah, I've been using the 770 weekly and I'm having a blast with it and to be honest on sessions I've used it on, it seems to blow away the musicians on the session as well so I know it's not just me.

I suspect that Roland (and maybe Korg) still have a slight innovative streak but they have to bury it deep in the rest of their garbage to appease the shareholders so you might have to dig deeper to find it.

Frank

[Vank]

Fully agreed...

Their analog glory days are long gone!

Would be great to see Roland jump on the software train though, with eric persing as head sound designer like in the old days. How about a true digital replica of the jp-8080, XV-5080 and V-Synth. Can't be that hard considering the minimal processing power those devices had.

[Tui]

I never understood why Roland or Yamaha don't come up with keyboards that are also PCs. As in, 500 GB hard-disk, 8 GB RAM or so, USB, firewire, and what not. The individual components are now so cheap and small, they could easily fit into something like a RD-700SX (which I use for a master-keyboard). A fully loaded machine would be great for live and studio use. You could load your favorite sample libraries and VIs into banks as presets, and just play. I'd LOVE that.

[Goliath|Audio]

Originally Posted by Tui

I never understood why Roland or Yamaha don't come up with keyboards that are also PCs. As in, 500 GB hard-disk, 8 GB RAM or so, USB, firewire, and what not. The individual components are now so cheap and small, they could easily fit into something like a RD-700SX (which I use for a master-keyboard). A fully loaded machine would be great for live and studio use. You could load your favorite sample libraries and VIs into banks as presets, and just play. I'd LOVE that.

Blue Screen of Death.

[Tui]

Originally Posted by Goliath|Audio

Blue Screen of Death.

When I said "PC", I didn't mean a regular Windows PC. Something more generic would be preferable. I don't see any reason why an integrated keyboard/computer shouldn't be able to load OS X AUs, for example.

[Dappolito]

I wish Roland would make 3 synths:

1. A real analog synth.

Some companies can do it, so Roland could do it, too. It is a niche market tho, despite all the analog hype and maybe it's not what the marketing department wants to waste time for.

2. The Ultimate Rompler Box.

Something like a XV 5080 but with more expansion slots and they should make expansion cards that simply mirror all older rom-synths. For example a Card called Groovebox Collection with all Groovebox Roms on it 1:1. And the same for other synths, JD990, old Fantoms etc.

3. A new V-Synth, mainly with more RAM.

[Goliath|Audio]

Originally Posted by Dappolito

I wish Roland would make 3 synths:

1. A real analog synth.

Some companies can do it, so Roland could do it, too. It is a niche market tho, despite all the analog hype and maybe it's not what the marketing department wants to waste time for.

2. The Ultimate Rompler Box.

Something like a XV 5080 but with more expansion slots and they should make expansion cards that simply mirror all older rom-synths. For example a Card called Groovebox Collection with all Groovebox Roms on it 1:1. And the same for other synths, JD990, old Fantoms etc.

3. A new V-Synth, mainly with more RAM.

Until something massive happens at Roland JP, 1 and 2 will never happen.

[deuc647]

Originally Posted by fantomen

I kinda agree... it is still a pity they didn't go the software way... my good old JP8080 (and the likes) in native would have been unbelievable... a pity they chose (IMHO) the wrong way (similar to Korg).

I dont use this emocon often, but

[ionian]

Originally Posted by deuc647

I dont use this emocon often, but

+1. I just didn't want to say anything!

Frank

[fantomen]

Well, that's the good thing about opinions, everybody has one ;-)

Do you guys really think hardware synths will continue to be developed forever? the difference vs. sofware synths is getting smaller and in terms of sound, but in terms of manufacturing and distribution costs the difference is night & day between HW and SW. Guys, this is not a question of whether HW synths sounds better (they do, I agree!), unfortunately it is a question of whether some companies will inevitably go down the drain because the market has evolved significantly and they haven't adapted.

[Goliath|Audio]

Originally Posted by Tui

When I said "PC", I didn't mean a regular Windows PC. Something more generic would be preferable. I don't see any reason why an integrated keyboard/computer shouldn't be able to load OS X AUs, for example.

Muse Receptor.

[cl516]

Interesting thought, but I'm not sure I agree 100%. I actually think companies like Korg and Electro-Harmonix are still doing a pretty good job making cool new hardware. I share the same frustration as the original poster regarding Roland's bullcrap. The amount of resources that'll be wasted promoting that new stuff... it's insulting.

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

Before this gets duly moved to the moan zone, I just wanna say this: Roland in the '80s and '90s didn't have to deal with Native Instruments and Reason and Arturia and Spectrasonics and small indie developers doing miraculous impressions of Buchla synths. Y'know?

A lot of inspiring stuff is happening in the software world these days. A semi-desultory synthesizer that uses a botanical DNA model, for example. Stuff like that.

It's a different time. Give 'em a break. Rough time for hardware makers, where the production costs are higher.

- c

[e-smile-z]

yeah i don t see nothing intresting...

an editor for a fully editable synth?...mmmmhh...
the v-synth was a milestone and the fantomx is still a great...

for me is korg the most innovativ from the big 3

[Jake]

Basically ditto what Silver Sonya said.

I'm not sure what folks expect from Korg/Roland/Yamaha. As someone who started with synths in the early 80's I can assure you that the big 3 synth manufacturers have always developed products that could be targeted to a broad market. That's what they did in the 80's and 90's and that's what they're struggling to do now. It's just a very different market.

The hardware market, such as it is these days, is for boutique analogs and keyboard workstations/romplers for gigging/playing musicians. It's pretty obvious which of the two is the bigger market, and I'm not mad at Roland for focusing their efforts in that direction. You may disagree, but a new analog polysynth would not be a profitable endeavor for Roland, nor would it likely satisfy purists who want nothing less than a Jupiter 8 repro.

When a novel or interesting product slips through the cracks at the big three like the FS1r, Monotron, or the V-Synth it's always a minor miracle. Personally, I would have loved it if Yamaha made an entire synth/workstation line based on the FS1r FM engine, added more knobs, and released their FM resynthesis software to the public. But that's not a synth that has wide appeal like the Motif.

As it is, I think we're in a golden age for synthesis and electronic instruments. Between new and used hardware, boutique analog manufacturers, and ridiculously powerful software-based options like Kyma, Max/Msp, and Metasynth there's not much ground left uncovered, and I'm excited about that. The fact that Roland isn't coming out with the Jupiter 10 doesn't bother me one bit.

[deuc647]

Originally Posted by fantomen

Well, that's the good thing about opinions, everybody has one ;-)

Do you guys really think hardware synths will continue to be developed forever? the difference vs. sofware synths is getting smaller and in terms of sound, but in terms of manufacturing and distribution costs the difference is night & day between HW and SW. Guys, this is not a question of whether HW synths sounds better (they do, I agree!), unfortunately it is a question of whether some companies will inevitably go down the drain because the market has evolved significantly and they haven't adapted.

Companies will continue to make hardware synths for the simple reason that some people (stand up and say I) still want to grab a knob and tweak instead of moving a mouse. I have massive reaktor arturia and still reach for my nova for analog(ish) sounds. I know its not a true analog synth but its hands on knobs without digging through menus is so much better,massive is kinda uninspiring to be honest. Im sure it sounds great but i cant get myself to use it too much due to a mouse. I think the future is softsynths with hardware controllers. For example what slate is doing with its mastering eq. Its software, but with a specific hardware controller.


Plus have you heard a voyager through a re-201? Nothing like it

[Neenja]

The really sad thing is that Roland has a DAW and are doing crap in the integration and networking areas with it.

[trunk79]

all my old roland synths get played and recorded almost every week, sh-2000 is my fav at the moment, so thick and creamy with great lfo and resonat filter/ much better than juno6s but any of my old roland collection work in a track straight away, which cannot be said for any of the new roland or korg synths ive played or briefly owned that were made after the 80s, even the jx8p is good for electro sounds once in a while+ they all sound even better going thru some old roland/boss fx pedals 303 gets its classic sound instantly, running a newer purely digital synth thru distortion pedals etc just makes it sound pixelatted and grainy, last time i was at a store playing with new synths the only ones that were fun for more than a couple of minutes were some of davesmiths synths and access virus (i want) the gaia didnt sound juno or SHish just modern bleh.
come on roland i want a new analouge synth moster with 303 bass module that is not a bitch to programme, td808 drum machine and a proper new sh/juno style synth that can be mono or poly and has built in tape echo...yeah all in the 1 unit like an old organ or something that would be the bomb i would buy for sure, gotta be all analouge sound generators and original filters from the units.
i will order as soon as availbe thanks

[Tui]

Originally Posted by Goliath|Audio

Muse Receptor.

Yeah I know. Minus the keyboard.