Slate Digital - VIRTUAL CONSOLE COLLECTION - Analog Mixing.. In Your DAW

[djanthonyw]

Originally Posted by djanthonyw

but I'm still wondering how something like this differs from using plugins such as Waves SSL or URS Strip Pro.

Thoughts anyone?

[Ermz]

Originally Posted by Bang

I'm not sure what you mean Ermin. Wherever you are summing multiple channels (be it for the master fader or for busses), the virtual mixbuss plugin will do the trick. Is this what you mean?

Yeah that's more or less what I mean, except I was curious as to whether you had coded an instance of the plug-in specifically for the non-master busses.

As long as the mixbus plug-in more or less handles these 'summing' duties the same way, I'm happy. Was mostly just curious. Thanks for the answer.

[topperf]

OMG - I just realized that if this plugin is anywhere near performing as good as promised, I have absolute no excuses left for not making great ITB mixes.. Damn you Slate!

[neon]

Originally Posted by topperf

OMG - I just realized that if this plugin is anywhere near performing as good as promised, I have absolute no excuses left for not making great ITB mixes.. Damn you Slate!

This type of comments are SO WRONG and create the no sense hype!
Even if the Slate Plug ins or any other plug in are great, there are so many other areas where you have to perform well to achieve a great Mix, specially ITB.

Think about your EQ abilities, your panning, your balance, your EFFXs, your depth and space , your dynamics..etc

No plug in at the 2 bus is gonna do that for you!!!!

Is like saying that because you are in a real SSL console you are going to have a great mix, if you do not perform the rest well, an SSL even HW gear means nothing!

Bottom line: if you are already so good, why do you think now you have no excuses?

See Serban Ghenea and Phil Tan, they already have great ITB mixes!

I hope this plug in can add a bit of the correct vibe of those console emulations, but I do not expect that any plug in will make now my mixes to sound great if I do not do the rest correctly!

[Jack Ruston]

I think it was tongue-in-cheek. I think he was just saying, jokingly that now he'd have nothing to blame if the mix wasn't good. I don't think he meant to imply that he genuinely blames bad mixes on the box at present.

J

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by neon

This type of comments are SO WRONG and create the no sense hype!
Even if the Slate Plug ins or any other plug in are great, there are so many other areas where you have to perform well to achieve a great Mix, specially ITB.

Think about your EQ abilities, your panning, your balance, your EFFXs, your depth and space , your dynamics..etc

No plug in at the 2 bus is gonna do that for you!!!!

Yes but that wasn't his point. His point was that if this plugin is really good, there's no way you can't do great mixes. In other words, great tools can help you get great results. Why you jumping at that for?

[a1236040]

God ! I have found now this Listening Room with some console emulated ITB

Sorry, not SL

[djanthonyw]

And again... that's Nebula. Let's leave Nebula out of this thread.

[lydpik]

Originally Posted by Bang

there are TWO plugins in the suite, one for channels, and one for busses, including masterbuss. So yes, the virtual mixbuss plugin goes on all busses that have channels being mixed IN to them.

So that means that your masterbuss plugin is supposed to be used on both aux busses AND the master buss, right?

Is the aux and master busses the same on real consoles too?

Thanks

[Bounce]

I'm interested in hearing this. Should be interesting to see how this is implemented.

[a1236040]

Originally Posted by lydpik

So that means that your masterbuss plugin is supposed to be used on both aux busses AND the master buss, right?

Is the aux and master busses the same on real consoles too?

Thanks

I think : no. Electronic is different in every circuit stage

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by audiomichael

So.

Oh yeah? Well... it was a joke, or at least, something that I thought was funny.

As in: I think everyone around here knows who SS is.

[work2do]

Originally Posted by ryst

It amazes me how McDSP announces a new compressor and an upgrade for their Classic Pack in.......MAY. And not a single person bitches about it. Yet, when Steven Slate announces new products nobody can keep their panties on. You guys need to relax.

I agree. Especially when the announcement for this product was only 1 week ago on Jan 15th, 2010.

Many are waiting for a magic bullet that will help their bad mixes suddenly sound great. No such product exists.

[K-Slash]

Originally Posted by konkaos

I agree. Especially when the announcement for this product was only 1 week ago on Jan 15th, 2010.

Many are waiting for a magic bullet that will help their bad mixes suddenly sound great. No such product exists.

No it's been end of december.

But that's almost the same ;-).

[chrisj]

Originally Posted by fslix

Now, if these plugs are inserted on every track and they somehow "communicate" with each other AND the plug that goes on the master bus, then I guess it would give more credibility to the term "virtual analog summing."

Originally Posted by Animus

Well you can't "sum" with just plugins. THey would need to be implemented at the internal mixer level.

Originally Posted by Bang

Hi guys.
We found that it was not necessary to have the dsp processing "built in" to the digital mixer in order to emulate the sound of the consoles.
By having the processing take place on all (or most) of the channels and on the mixbuss, we were able to capture the sound and also the dynamic "feel" of the desks.

I'm going to back Steven Slate here, and from experience, as my 'Desk' plugins have been a big hit for a while now and work just the same way. It will work just as well for him- it will just be down to the flavor of plugin and how well it handles the signal.

The only thing that would require this tight link between channel and buss would be managing the input impedance of the bus through presenting an impedance to each channel that fluctuates at audio frequencies. I don't think this is significantly different from establishing a nonlinearity just directly on the buss- and we're ALL doing that.

On top of that, if you were able to isolate differences beyond what we can do in plugins, I'm not convinced those extra tiny nonlinearities would be musically useful. Sounds like intermodulation distortion to me. Sounds like you'd be getting hashy garbage which helps nobody.

Steven is absolutely right- it is not necessary to replace the internal structure of the DAW to do this. In effect you are applying an 'insert'. It's all about whether that 'insert' is giving the behavior you want- and minimizing unwanted behavior that you don't want.

[Mr.HOLMES]

I mean come on Chris.

If it would be true that we can perfectly emulate what is going on in gear this would be the end of the HW industry.

There are so many things going on in gear I ask my self how a plug in can do the math for every kind of source? There are so many different ways music is played many different frequency amplitudes where hardware just can react to every situation how it was build endless resolution.

So in my opinion it is an extreme expectation on software to react exactly the same as a real mixing desk would do it. In my imagination without being an expert in programming this would mean endless fast calculations or endless impulse responses of every component of the gear.

I mean not to be the prick here I work also with plug ins and they have become much much better....

But to say in forum like this that the real world test would be against the real console is super dangerous in my world because in the end if the customers will be disappointed you will have a lot negative responses....

It would be better if Mr Slate says that they come as close to the real sound as it gets today...I am pretty sure some real desk owner will compare the plug in and may have big laugh for it...

But if it is true it will be the end for the desk industry but I guess it wont.

[gussyg2007]

Basically it boils down to a ITB or OTB thing as usual with 99% of threads around here
In other words "will Slate digital be the first to break another H v S taboo ???
Will Slate Digital be the first to crack the " my DAW doesn't sound like a $ 350000 console??
Will Slate Digital be able to get a mix to sound like a 24" studer & a SSL g series ??

Lets face the facts here ...... Given time , money ,resources and market demand
all .... ALL the needs of any audio desire will be met with the magic of "100101001010"
Damm we are really clever and ingenues !! We invented the wheel and before you know it.. we have the motor car !!!
what makes you think it is anything different for music ???
Anything that was of(and i use "of" in the past tense) analog notoriety will be modeled to an inch of it's life till it gets so good we will not be able to distinguish the original from the "10010111010". That is a fact !! So ... regardless of the fact of.." does this plug do it?".... if it does or doesn't .. at some point it all will !!, simply because we are as a race ... clever bastards !!!!

[work2do]

Originally Posted by K-Slash

No it's been end of december.

But that's almost the same ;-).

this thread for "virtual console" was started on jan 15th correct?

[maccare]

how come that all these demo songs on product presentations are so sleazy poppy middle of the road things.
Do me some Trash/death/grind songs A/B 'd and then maybe only then you can convince me. Until then I stay with my stock plugins and make "perfectly happy"" mixes.
Please proof it that I'm wrong!!!!

oh by the way : me and a bunch of friends watched the you tube video. Had a great time analyzing the typical US "WOW" factor.

[Emeth]

Originally Posted by Slate Press

The VIRTUAL CONSOLE COLLECTION consists of two plugins, Virtual Channel and Virtual Mixbuss. Each plugin allows the user to choose from one of six modeled consoles. Virtual Channel is applied on individual mixing channels. Virtual Mixbuss goes on the first insert of the master fader. When using the Virtual Console Collection, your DAW instantly takes on

the personality of a real analog mixing desk. The imaging and depth improves, instruments sit better in the frequency spectrum, and mixing becomes easier and more musical. You can even push the DAW faders up to find each mixer’s ‘sweet spot’. This is due to the algorithms being dynamic, just like a real console.

These would have to be in 64bit FP calculations not just internally but also on the input/output (like Stillwell, Schwa, Voxengo, Brainworx) DAW's like Reaper provide such support even in 32bit OS environment. I would never put anything other than 64bit FP plugs throughout on my Mix Busses. IMHO 32bit plugs are fine for tracking though.

[PlayRadioPlay]

Originally Posted by a1236040

God ! I have found now this Listening Room with some console emulated ITB

Sorry, not SL

Haha, once the ITB console emulations get perfected, it won't be long until people start modeling the ears of big producers/mixers/engineers.

"NOW, FOR ONLY $99.99, HEAR MIXES JUST LIKE NIGEL GODRICH HEARS THEM!"

"NOW YOUR HEADPHONES CAN SOUND JUST LIKE THE EDGE'S CAR SOUND SYSTEM!"

I'm calling it now.

[on the run]

Originally Posted by a1236040

God ! I have found now this Listening Room with some console emulated ITB

Sorry, not SL

Sorry what? Most of this thread is complaining about the lack of a/b samples and when you find a site that actually DOES have these samples you're complaining about it?

[neon]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Yes but that wasn't his point. His point was that if this plugin is really good, there's no way you can't do great mixes. In other words, great tools can help you get great results. Why you jumping at that for?

Exactly!! so you are telling me that just a single plug in will revolutionize the end result of a mix?
I do not think so, are so many other areas where plug in do not match hardware.
For example, do you think the Waves API sound like the real deal???
NOWAY, they are good, and have some of that sound, but not the presence and that natural behaviour that happens even if the controls are flat!

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

I mean come on Chris.

If it would be true that we can perfectly emulate what is going on in gear this would be the end of the HW industry.

There are so many things going on in gear I ask my self how a plug in can do the math for every kind of source? There are so many different ways music is played many different frequency amplitudes where hardware just can react to every situation how it was build endless resolution.

So in my opinion it is an extreme expectation on software to react exactly the same as a real mixing desk would do it. In my imagination without being an expert in programming this would mean endless fast calculations or endless impulse responses of every component of the gear.

I mean not to be the prick here I work also with plug ins and they have become much much better....

But to say in forum like this that the real world test would be against the real console is super dangerous in my world because in the end if the customers will be disappointed you will have a lot negative responses....

It would be better if Mr Slate says that they come as close to the real sound as it gets today...I am pretty sure some real desk owner will compare the plug in and may have big laugh for it...

But if it is true it will be the end for the desk industry but I guess it wont.

AMEN !!!!

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by neon

Exactly!! so you are telling me that just a single plug in will revolutionize the end result of a mix?

No, I'm not saying that. All I'm saying is that people are waiting for new tools to get better sounds faster and easier. We'll see how the Slate plugin does....

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay

Haha, once the ITB console emulations get perfected, it won't be long until people start modeling the ears of big producers/mixers/engineers.

"NOW, FOR ONLY $99.99, HEAR MIXES JUST LIKE NIGEL GODRICH HEARS THEM!"

"NOW YOUR HEADPHONES CAN SOUND JUST LIKE THE EDGE'S CAR SOUND SYSTEM!"

I'm calling it now.

Looks like we're headed that direction.... Look at the 'signature series' from waves.... plugins that 'automatically' get your sound like CLA/Kramer/JJP....

[audiomichael]

Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay

Haha, once the ITB console emulations get perfected, it won't be long until people start modeling the ears of big producers/mixers/engineers.

"NOW, FOR ONLY $99.99, HEAR MIXES JUST LIKE NIGEL GODRICH HEARS THEM!"

"NOW YOUR HEADPHONES CAN SOUND JUST LIKE THE EDGE'S CAR SOUND SYSTEM!"

I'm calling it now.

No... that would NEVER happen. First they have to put out some headphones that make you hear beats like Dr. Dre, or shoes that make you dunk like Michael Jordan, or a guitar that would make you play like Les Paul.

[Bounce]

Originally Posted by audiomichael

No... that would NEVER happen. First they have to put out some headphones that make you hear beats like Dr. Dre, or shoes that make you dunk like Michael Jordan, or a guitar that would make you play like Les Paul.

:-) Funny!

[Mr.HOLMES]

I just want to state again that there are some plug ins as well which do things that hardware cant. And we have plug ins that do their JOB very very well.

I am just getting a bit crazy about the way plug ins are distributed.
The way companies want me to make believe that we are already there.

I have no problems to say with reverb we are already there.

But when I switch on my hardware after using plug ins I can hear that some things gel better with the sound, just more pleased to my ear, it just makes more sense to me.
May it is as well a psycho acoustical thing that just has to do with endless resolution in HW.

My experience with ITB mixes is if you listen to them at a higher SPL level they start to get displeasing .... a mix which is done in a real world analog environment is still pleasing my ear... I have done this test a few times with my setup and went to a friends place and summed the whole thing thorough his console.

This is one fact that made me believing that a nice hybrid setup gives me more chances to create something.

All I can say if the Slate Plug Ins will do this I will be one of the first customers who apologize and I will spread all around the forum to buy theses plug ins.

But I ask myself how could this be done?
It is just another plug in not real hardware....another thing which ads calculations to the bounce.

I am pretty sure that the Slate Plug ins are not bad by any means and that they can emulate something what we like.
But to expect that it replaces a real console is just to much for my imagination.... is to much marketing-talk for my taste.

Does this mean you cant do a great song with plug ins.
No you can.

[K-Slash]

Originally Posted by konkaos

this thread for "virtual console" was started on jan 15th correct?

Sorry I thought you were talking about McDSP's announcement.

[robot gigante]

You know what is funny about these "new" "revolutionary" summing products- Cranesong Phoenix has already done this already for years. Nonlinearities, check. Reacts dynamically and doesn't clip right away when pushed, check. Excellent sound, check.

Just saying.

It's cool that there are new flavors available from other companies though.

As far how plugins like this are at emulating console behavior... ahhhhhmmmm... they help, but for one thing your workflow and gain staging to a good extent is still dictated by the DAW.

I disagree that adding plugins with these characteristics is going to make mixing ITB more of an experience like mixing analog, but they are still useful to have around.