UAD-2 - Manley Massive Passive in the queue

[JPeters86]

I hope UAD is focusing on new versions of their older plugin as well, while working on new stuff like this. You can't really expect someone to pay $ 149.00 for a plugin that only models half the thing (compression curves), while you can also buy a plugin for $ 79.00 that actually models the entire unit in a very, very accurate way (IK), and is also native, which means you can probably run more of them on your three year old computer than on a UAD2 Solo card.

I think UAD is becoming a victim of their own system. Let's face it, this DSP card thing is outdated. It's good at one thing only: piracy protection. It's really ridiculous to have a beast like an eight core Mac under your desk, and then mix with software run on PCI (!) cards. In my opinion, they should replace the cards with a UA-dongle that authorizes the plugs, much like McDSP does or did, and just use the host's CPU(s) instead. My guess is this new Manley unit may just take up a lot of a UAD2 card.

Please UA, go native! I sold my cards sometime ago because I got really, really frustrated with freezing tracks all the time, especially when using high sample rates. Luckily not much longer IK, PSP and Waves released some very cool emulations to replace some of them.

[lllubi]

Originally Posted by JPeters86

Please UA, go native! I sold my cards sometime ago because I got really, really frustrated with freezing tracks all the time, especially when using high sample rates. Luckily not much longer IK, PSP and Waves released some very cool emulations to replace some of them.

dont think they will release native versions until they recover their expenses for the UAD2
but a significant price drop would be a good sign as it was with UAD1

[Animus]

Looking forward to the Massive Passive for sure. I haven't bought much UA plugs for awhile. I did get the Fatso with some vouchers. If they get somewhat close with the Massivo I think it would be great for my workflow since I have a real MP. I can use the UA version as a temp placeholder on key tracks and then at the end of the mix I can process each track with the real thing. It's a great eq. Very smooth and you can push the hell out of it and the way all the curves for each band interact with each other is real flexible (that will be a important thing for UA to get right)

[Dom & Roland]

I've never understood the hype around the massive passive....It's always done my head in tweaking the sound i want out of it.... I'd much prefer a masslec or sontec. I don't know why i'm in this thread because i don't have a uad i just thought that the mp is slightly over hyped......anyone else agree or am i on my own here.

[arimaka]

Originally Posted by Dom & Roland

I've never understood the hype around the massive passive....It's always done my head in tweaking the sound i want out of it.... I'd much prefer a masslec or sontec. I don't know why i'm in this thread because i don't have a uad i just thought that the mp is slightly over hyped......anyone else agree or am i on my own here.

Because just pluggin' the darn thing it makes most signals get BIGGER!!

[Surbitone]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

I paid pretty much money in my store for three cards two UAD-1 and one UAD-2 Quad cards all over all....
3.100,00 Euros = 4441,00 US $ + near 500 US $ for plug ins at thier store.

I think I can say with all respect to thier work that my investment should be worth to get the best emualtions in the market I can buy for my hard earned cash.

....cut.....

But again check the Softube FET against the real hardware and there is not a lot of crtice left in comparsion I did it and the UAD 1176 plug was LAME in comparsion....

+1. The UAD stuff sounded great for the time. But, if you listen to uad's 1176 vs softube's fet or stillwell's rocket - the differences are clearly very audible, and for the money being charged to set up a uad system, they can jog on! The new generation of software (both powered and native) is getting pretty amazing, but uad haven't quite caught up just yet - but I'm sure 2010 will have some useful goodies in store.

[Surbitone]

Originally Posted by arimaka

Because just pluggin' the darn thing it makes most signals get BIGGER!!

Exactly, the mid-range is of the hook too. AMAZING topology. Could see why some people arent overly keen on the bass, sound amazing to me though....

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by Dom & Roland

I've never understood the hype around the massive passive....It's always done my head in tweaking the sound i want out of it.... I'd much prefer a masslec or sontec. I don't know why i'm in this thread because i don't have a uad i just thought that the mp is slightly over hyped......anyone else agree or am i on my own here.

You are not alone! It's a weird device, for sure!

You feel like you are manipulating sound like taffy!

I see it as an "art" piece. You're right, if you just want to EQ something conventionally, the MP is not where I would go first. But that's me.

I'm not looking forward to the music that will result from thousands of unskilled "punters" (as they say in the UK) having a Massive Passive in their homes.

Mastering guys are going to have a whole new set of headaches to deal with.



- c

[arimaka]

Originally Posted by Surbitone

+1. The UAD stuff sounded great for the time. But, if you listen to uad's 1176 vs softube's fet or stillwell's rocket - the differences are clearly very audible, and for the money being charged to set up a uad system, they can jog on! The new generation of software (both powered and native) is getting pretty amazing, but uad haven't quite caught up just yet - but I'm sure 2010 will have some useful goodies in store.

Hmmmmm.....
Fatso??
EMT 250??
Neve stuff??

Anyone??

Some of these plugs sound pretty killer!!

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by gundam

I'm totally with bmanic, holmes and steff3. Yet, I'm kind of eager to hear the uad massive passive emu against the nebula counterpart. And if the two of them sound very very close, you all know how fairly priced is nebula compared to the uad platform.

Never wondered why UA gives you so many coupons? You've already paid for those when you purchased the card(s) in the first place. Clever marketing, I must say.

That is the point.
If we take all the marketing hyping away and we concentrate with all companies if WAVES; UAD OR URS just on the SONICS... a tool gives us.

For example the Softube FET makes also the signals wider opener and more alive....The URS 1975 makes it more dry to my ears but very pleased.... the UAD Blackface puts the singal up front but also is doing crazy things in the time domain.

So over all we have today some plug ins in the compressor department which are true and real sound shapers.... this is for me:

Softube FET and CL1B
PSP Oldtimer
Waves CLA Bundle
Waves Fairchild (JJP Bundle)
URS Classic Compressors

Can you see UAD in that LIST?
For me if I compare the UAD plugs there just a few I want to keep.

UAD EMT 250
UAD Roland Dimension D
Neve 33609 amazing tool

The rest of it is for me questionable in the future!!
Because for the EQ department comes nebula in the game and I am pretty sure as soon as the AU Version of Nebula is out this will be my tool for EQs.

UAD claims in interviews that they found the best way to emulate hardware. If so why the hell the Softube Compressors sound so near to the real deal....and the Waves CLAs as well for me nice sounding tools.

We will see....but something has to happen here.

[Liam Judah]

Originally Posted by arimaka

Hmmmmm.....
Fatso??
EMT 250??
Neve stuff??

Anyone??

Some of these plugs sound pretty killer!!

I'm currently using the Neve 88rs as my main/first reached for plug, and I agree... the EMT250 and Fatso are killer. Can't wait to demo the Massive Passive when it comes out. I've already downloaded (and am reading through) the hardware manual from the Manley site.

[clonewar]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

...I am pretty sure as soon as the AU Version of Nebula is out this will be my tool for EQs...

You'll be comparing the AU version of Nebula to the UAD-5..

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by clonewar

You'll be comparing the AU version of Nebula to the UAD-5..

I will and if it is true that the EQs of nebula sound so amazing I will drop all my UAD EQs for sure... there would be no reason anymore to use UAD EQs if Nebula does the trick....

[b0ssa]

Originally Posted by LokiProducer

They did a survey a lil' while ago asking if it's customers would enjoy updated versions of their classics. I would guess the pultec, 1176, LA2a, and LA3a. maybe more, but I don't really see them doing ocean way's fairchild again.

This sounds new sounds good to me tho! This EQ isn't going to sound like the others with UAD because with Manley being the way they are about Tubes and skepticism of the digital world.. I'm sure it'll induce harmonics (tubes duh), have some saturation characteristics, maybe even some analog noise (which I think would be the only first in UAD land). I could be wrong tho.. However UAD has been growing in emulation like the rest of the market so I assume it'll be rockin'.

The EMT250 has a noise switch.. they modelled it and added the option to switch it I/O as desired.

[Mr.HOLMES]

May we start an on-line Petition for MK II Versions of the classics?

1176 / LA2A / LA3A / Fairchild.

How could we do an petition on-line and hand this over to UAD?

Something like this:
---
Dear UAD developers.

We have been long time users of the UAD DSP-Card-Platform.

We see at the time that your competitors do to our ears better native sounding emulations of the studio classics 1176 / LA2A / LA3A / Fairchild.

We vote for MKII Versions of the above named emulations.
---
Sorry for my bad English.... may someone can write it better and we do a poll in the "so much gear so little time" section.

What do you think?

[b0ssa]

Originally Posted by bmanic

Bingo! This is exactly what some of us have been saying since the UAD1 days. The card is a dongle. It is their copy protection. Anybody thinking that they are actually getting a DSP "bargain" and a powerhouse is dreaming. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad that the UAD2 got once again all the "OMG!! Itzzz superz powerfulz! Greatz!!!" hype upon release. Good thing they released the Fatso Jr. this early so people can actually see how underpowered it is, even the Quad.

My guess is that the future in DSP processing will come from Nvidia and ATI. They are already very far ahead in the bang for the buck arena from the consumers point of view but there is perhaps less money to be made on the hardware itself for the manufacturer.. which is why UA chose the cheap sharc dsp. They'll make a killing on the hardware itself in just a year or two (they already are).

Basically they are riding entirely on their plugin quality (which is extremely high, there is no denying that). Once the competition catches up (if they ever will).. it'll be much harder for them to sell underpowered dongles.. actually, extremely effective dongles. AFAIK the UAD platform is the only one that has never been hacked/cracked. That's a pretty solid protection right there. Which is why they can make all em famous officially licensed and endorsed plugins.

Damn.. I really, REALLY like their stuff but I.. must.. resist.. the.. uad2.. temptation! Aaargggghhhhhhh! Pay day!

Fail..

Cheers!
bManic

Interesting points all, but I am also not aware of the Liquid Mix being cracked either.

BTW: LM has Manley VMU, Massive Passive & Distressor emulations that I don't mind at all. The transformer effects are simulated in the LM I believe, but there are also varying degress of harmonic distrortions in all the models as well - all the stuff people in UAD land are asking for.
A used LM can be had for the price of 2 UAD plugs maybe these days off eBay. Some of you might want to consider buying to try it .. at least it's hardware you can sell if you don't like it and that doesn't involve online authorization BS either.

[JPeters86]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

UAD claims in interviews that they found the best way to emulate hardware. If so why the hell the Softube Compressors sound so near to the real deal....and the Waves CLAs as well for me nice sounding tools.

Perhaps this was an old interview. As I said earlier in this thread, their oldest plugins (LA2A, 1176, Fairchild) are really only partial emulations. Sure these things have nice EQ or compression curves but what also contributes to the unique flavor is the specific harmonic distortion/saturation/warmth/mojo/whatever you want to call it generated by the unit. And IK and Waves as well I think have modelled this. Especially the IK Fairchild is extremely well modelled. From input drive tube fatness to complex harmonic distortion and strange dynamic behavior, all typical of a real Fairchild and contributing to its sound, IK has nailed it. The IK stuff is as underrated as the UAD stuff is overrated in my opinion.

[b0ssa]

Originally Posted by JPeters86

I hope UAD is focusing on new versions of their older plugin as well, while working on new stuff like this. You can't really expect someone to pay $ 149.00 for a plugin that only models half the thing (compression curves), while you can also buy a plugin for $ 79.00 that actually models the entire unit in a very, very accurate way (IK), and is also native, which means you can probably run more of them on your three year old computer than on a UAD2 Solo card.

I think UAD is becoming a victim of their own system. Let's face it, this DSP card thing is outdated. It's good at one thing only: piracy protection. It's really ridiculous to have a beast like an eight core Mac under your desk, and then mix with software run on PCI (!) cards. In my opinion, they should replace the cards with a UA-dongle that authorizes the plugs, much like McDSP does or did, and just use the host's CPU(s) instead. My guess is this new Manley unit may just take up a lot of a UAD2 card.

Please UA, go native! I sold my cards sometime ago because I got really, really frustrated with freezing tracks all the time, especially when using high sample rates. Luckily not much longer IK, PSP and Waves released some very cool emulations to replace some of them.

One of the questions UA asked in their recent survey went something like this: "If a plug-in was available in both Native or DSP format, which one would you be inclined to buy?" I think that gives it away somewhat... we might start seeing Native plug's from UA that use the card as a dongle. If that happens then Solo users will be laughing all the way to the bank unless they nobble the capacity in some way.
My Duende has 128 channels available but I hardly use the card and whilst I bought some UA plug's recently, I am replacing most of my stuff with Native where possible. Hell, even my CL1B Powercore plug-in is available Native now.

Here are some Native plug-ins I recommend (most of which I bought recently with the idea of reducing my DSP card dependence):
CL1B Native (also own Powercore version but use this)
mpressor
Waves CLA
Softube Fet Compressor (trial right now but will buy)
PSP Oldtimer
URS Saturation
FericTDS
Lexicon PCM Bundle
SPL Vitalizer MK2-T
Waves Vocal Rider

EQ's I like:
LP10
Fabfilter Pro-Q
PSP Classic Q
Waves V-Series
Sonalksis SV-517MK2

[b0ssa]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

That is the point.
If we take all the marketing hyping away and we concentrate with all companies if WAVES; UAD OR URS just on the SONICS... a tool gives us.

For example the Softube FET makes also the signals wider opener and more alive....The URS 1975 makes it more dry to my ears but very pleased.... the UAD Blackface puts the singal up front but also is doing crazy things in the time domain.

So over all we have today some plug ins in the compressor department which are true and real sound shapers.... this is for me:

Softube FET and CL1B
PSP Oldtimer
Waves CLA Bundle
Waves Fairchild (JJP Bundle)
URS Classic Compressors

Can you see UAD in that LIST?
For me if I compare the UAD plugs there just a few I want to keep.

UAD EMT 250
UAD Roland Dimension D
Neve 33609 amazing tool

The rest of it is for me questionable in the future!!
Because for the EQ department comes nebula in the game and I am pretty sure as soon as the AU Version of Nebula is out this will be my tool for EQs.

UAD claims in interviews that they found the best way to emulate hardware. If so why the hell the Softube Compressors sound so near to the real deal....and the Waves CLAs as well for me nice sounding tools.

We will see....but something has to happen here.

I have to agree with all of that...

I Use only a few UAD plug's now:
1176LN (replaced by Waves CLA, CL1b & Oldtimer)
LA2A (replaced by Waves CLA, CL1b & Oldtimer)
LA3A (replaced by Waves CLA, CL1b & Oldtimer)
33609
Cooper TimeCube
Roland CE-1
Roland Dimension D
Roland Space Echo 201
FATSO
Neve 31102
EMT250
SPL TD
Moog Filter (ALthough I use Powercore Filtroid more.. on Kicks and Bass etc)
I occassionally use the 4K channel strip but usually use my Duende instead

Powercore Plugs I use all the time:
vss3 (not so much as I used to as I now combine it with the Lexicon PCM bundle , SSL X-Verb and UAD EMT250)
Dvr2 (replaced with UAD EMT250 and Lexicon PCM Bundle)
MD3
Brickwall
Character
TubeFX
Filtroid
VoiceStrip
Harmony4
Tapfactory
CL1B (use the native these days to conserve DSP.. rather ironic lol)

Liquid Mix:
Huge Tube (Massive Passive)
Copycat 2 & 3 (distressors)
Primitive (Manley VMU)
London (Chiswick Reach)

I love my Liquid Mix for the sidechain EQ, the ability to mix EQ bands from all the models into Hybrid EQ'a and to run all of the compressors in Free mode and dual Mono. And it's the only thing I have that works perfectly on the Firewire buss 24/7.

[bmanic]

Originally Posted by kreeper_6

Says who?

Universal Audio | UAD Charts

Nobody asked me how many UAD-2's I have...But why would they when they can just slam me? With your theory of plugin usage many should be fine with a UAD-2 Quad, but yet they still bitch. If somebody can't mix effectively with a single Quad, there is an underlying problem.

If I could compare Apples to Apples I would, but NOBODY has a FATSO SR., 33609, EMT 250, Trident, MOOG Filter, Dimension D, RE-201, Plate 140, Cooper Time Cube Mk II to compare it too!

How bout that WaveArts Saturator...Talk about low on CPU cycles. dfegad



I like to do Benchmark Testing.

Well whoopidoo.. so you spent a shit load of money? Remember, you can network computers for extra CPU as well. Of course you CAN make a very powerful UAD2 system using magmas etc (4xquad, 4xUAD1 would be pretty hefty system) but that STILL doesn't change the fact that they are using the UAD2 mainly as a dongle and are ripping people off (check the price of those DSP chips.. ouch) on the hardware.

With all the money you've spent you could buy a full featured native system AND have tons left for the actual hardware.

So enjoy the fairytale dfegad and the marketing hoopla.

- bManic

[lllubi]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

I will and if it is true that the EQs of nebula sound so amazing I will drop all my UAD EQs for sure... there would be no reason anymore to use UAD EQs if Nebula does the trick....

PSPs sQuad will do it for me till the 8th of Jan for amazing 99USD

[Mr.HOLMES]

Anyway before I spend more money on Waves Softube or other tools I will check Nebula if it is true the modelling of this tool is so accurate it can save me tons of $$$ and I do not sit in a trap of a software company that spends more cash into marketing instead of developing.

The more I see endorsers the more I see thousands of dollars given away for making marketing videos the more I get sceptic about if they still concentrate on the JOB it is about.

A very small company like Softube was setting the level rather high and now as a user I want to see other companies following this new quality in modelling.

Anyway my feeling tells me that it is wasted energy to wait.
May I can stay patient for a few months but one day I have to make a decision.

My mac is powerful enough to run a lot of native plugs without going nuts.
So I do not worry about this...

Times for extra DSP Power on PCI cards are over?!!??

[K-Slash]

Originally Posted by Mr.HOLMES

May we start an on-line Petition for MK II Versions of the classics?

1176 / LA2A / LA3A / Fairchild.

How could we do an petition on-line and hand this over to UAD?

Something like this:
---
Dear UAD developers.

We have been long time users of the UAD DSP-Card-Platform.

We see at the time that your competitors do to our ears better native sounding emulations of the studio classics 1176 / LA2A / LA3A / Fairchild.

We vote for MKII Versions of the above named emulations.
---
Sorry for my bad English.... may someone can write it better and we do a poll in the "so much gear so little time" section.

What do you think?

Don't forget the Pultec and Pultec Pro :-) !

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by K-Slash

Don't forget the Pultec and Pultec Pro :-) !

TRUE they are one of the first UAD plug ins as well!!!

[K-Slash]

Honestly, I don't understand why UA did not released native plugins since the beginning, with their own "affordable dongle".

A sort of custom UA USB key. You buy it $50, and you buy a single plugin for around $200-$300, or a bundle at a discounted price.

Why not even offering custom bundles, you chose and a system calculate the discount.

That would have been easier I think, and better for everybody.

But maybe it's just me, but I would have liked this approach better.

[SPUMD]

Originally Posted by Farshad

Try Sonnox or Flux Epure if you have not already. I have found the Sonnox to be great at surgical tasks.

The Sonnox is good but doesn't sound natural like the Precision..
If got to check the Flux Epure.

There is a lot of talk about digital harshness.
The Precesion EQ and the Precision Limiter are defenitly the tools to work on this.
Both of them make the sound very soft and natural.

You got to check it, to see what I'm talking about.

[LGK_Dude]

Originally Posted by Marando

I think there is one road for UAD to follow.. it's hybrid. Allow the CPU to assist the DSP's, like SSL is doing with the Duende.

Wouldn't this add additional latency, as you'll be splitting a single audio process across two processors? Perhaps what you meant was the option to run a single plugin either native or on the DSP, similar to how you can currently assign plugins to run either on UAD-1 or UAD2.

I hope this will eventually happen, as it will allow UA to continue to make better, more processor hungry plugins without them being cracked, as they are still tied to the DSP dongle. Seems win win.

[b0ssa]

Originally Posted by LGK_Dude

Wouldn't this add additional latency, as you'll be splitting a single audio process across two processors? Perhaps what you meant was the option to run a single plugin either native or on the DSP, similar to how you can currently assign plugins to run either on UAD-1 or UAD2.

I hope this will eventually happen, as it will allow UA to continue to make better, more processor hungry plugins without them being cracked, as they are still tied to the DSP dongle. Seems win win.

That decision would destroy their card market unless they decided to sell DSP slots (SSL) - there would be no incentive to own a QUAD if there was no discrimination. The 1st point to remember is that all of these guys are in business for your $ and don't really give anything away - they balance out a number of considerations, all based on money & profit.

[LGK_Dude]

I meant that you still have to own at least one card to unlock the ability to use the plugins, but from there you could choose to either run it off the card, or native. Those who want to run most of their plugs native would buy solo cards, those that wanted the DSP would buy quads, and all would be right with the world.

[Entrainer]

It'd be a lot cooler if it was the Vari-Mu.