Toys from SoundToys

[Tabnetic]

so far so good. i find that the wet/dry knob is invaluable for a nice sound on my drum bus. (saves me an aux for parallel). haven't tried on mix bus yet, but will give it a go. very promising thus far!

(works fine on mac pro 8 core, ptle 8.0.3, OSX 10.5.8)

[filterfreak]

Originally Posted by Brendan

Hmmn. Wish I could figure out how to get less low and low-mid thickness and more of what it's doing to the highs. Using the filters with the mix knob can get phasey.

Gotta spend more time with it. This is a move forward for analog simulation, I believe. It's organic, responsive, not superimposed. The mix knob is a great feature.

Use the TONE-knob fot this!

[KBToys]

Originally Posted by Paul Russell

Two things wrong in Sonar x64

1) The valve type buttons don't light up, so you have no idea whether it's 'taken' or not, and no confirmation of what's working.

2) Automation doesn't work. It writes but doesn't playback or bounce. This is stupid. It's a known issue in the Native Bundle and Soundtoys have refused to address it for over six months. "The issue is quite involved and will take a considerable number of cycles from one of our programmers so it will not be anytime soon." says Mitch.

Now it appears that they've built a new plugin on the same architecture that's already known to fail in 64bit hosts. My bet is the Autopanner will live down to the same expectations.

Compare this attitude to other VST developers like Spectrasonics, Softube, Camel, PSP, NI, EWQL Synthogy and Voxengo (a one man outfit) and it's easy to see who really cares about the userbase.

Sorry, Mitch.

First, keep in mind this IS a beta, so getting all angry at us won't help (and wasn't there something in that beta agreement that said you weren't supposed to get all angry at us if things didn't work as well as you hoped?)

Second, we're aware of the issues with Sonar 64. We don't yet support native 64-bit VST, as do lot's of other plug-in developers, nor do we explicitly support Sonar 64. VST is our newest platform and with so many different hosts, and inconsistency and quirkiness from host-to-host, we have decided to keep our official list of supported hosts relatively small, but will do our best to address issues as they come up.

By far the biggest request from our VST user base has been a preset manager (which isn't necessary for Pro Tools or Logic which have great built-in preset management) and we have added that to this plug-in, and it will make it's way into the other plugs when the newer versions are released in the near future.

In any case, thanks for the feedback.

[Ermz]

Just once again reiterating that I had some system lag running this plug-in on Cubase 5.1.1 32-bit under Windows 7 64-bit.

Not angry in the least, but it would be great to know the developers acknowledge it, and plan to suss it out for the final release (mainly so I can actually purchase this great sounding unit).

I was hoping that the idea behind a public beta was to gather feedback from a variety of users about their experiences on different platforms, so fixes could be worked into the final release to make it more rock solid.

Also, just wanting to give a +1 to the many users who've voiced their desire for an auto make-up gain, or Output level knob.

[Paul Russell]

Who said I was angry? I'm disappointed. I've been rather restrained despite the automation of your Native plugs not working since I bought them and I've had six months of civil emails being ignored, or repeatedly being told "yeah this bug is not really on a priority right now". My (very senior) contacts at Cakewalk tell me your guys haven't even contacted them to see what the issue is about!

I just think the idea of starting two new products on an already known faulty architecture is a daft idea. Any of your userbase migrating over to 64bit in the near future (I'm not the only one) are going to be very dissappointed when their favourite toys don't work. And eventually when you do go to fix this issue you'll have even more code to work on. False economy.

This year I spent over USD$20,000 on plugins and sample sets. I would have bought Decapitator on the day of launch, and Panman too. My disappointment will be your loss of revenue. And like I said, I'm genuinely sorry about that.

Have a nice xmas.

[electro]

Originally Posted by Paul Russell

This year I spent over USD$20,000 on plugins and sample sets.

What on Earth? Details please.

[Mitch@SoundToys]

Originally Posted by Paul Russell

Who said I was angry? I'm disappointed. I've been rather restrained despite the automation of your Native plugs not working since I bought them and I've had six months of civil emails being ignored, or repeatedly being told "yeah this bug is not really on a priority right now". My (very senior) contacts at Cakewalk tell me your guys haven't even contacted them to see what the issue is about!

I just think the idea of starting two new products on an already known faulty architecture is a daft idea. Any of your userbase migrating over to 64bit in the near future (I'm not the only one) are going to be very dissappointed when their favourite toys don't work. And eventually when you do go to fix this issue you'll have even more code to work on. False economy.

This year I spent over USD$20,000 on plugins and sample sets. I would have bought Decapitator on the day of launch, and Panman too. My disappointment will be your loss of revenue. And like I said, I'm genuinely sorry about that.

Have a nice xmas.

Bob from our office has been talking with the CakeWalk guys the whole time. Our architecture is not faulty. Works everywhere we said it did. Sonar64 has never been on our list. When we get support for Sonar64, we'll add it. And we will get it, but supporting the platforms that are on our list will always be first priority, and we're not putting this off because we don't think VST is important, we just have to prioritize. How many designers do you think we have? We're certainly not CakeWalk with Roland money backing us. No, we're not a one man group either, but we have more platforms than the one man group, and we got lots of cool toys planned, too.
Anyway, we're working toward getting it all running at some point. Then we can all start the fight over why the heck you need 64bit anyway:-) Sorry, just kidding. No fights. We want peace in the World and if not the World at least the forums.

Happy Holidays to all

Thanks,
Mitch @ SoundToys

[K-Slash]

Originally Posted by Mitch@SoundToys

[...]we got lots of cool toys planned, too.

Well that's a GREAT thing to know.

With Decapitator settings the bar high, I can't be less than REALLY happy.

[Nolet]

Originally Posted by K-Slash

Well that's a GREAT thing to know.

With Decapitator settings the bar high, I can't be less than REALLY happy.

please...a pitchshifter...and a Bode Frequency Shifter...pleez...ktnx....

[Paul Russell]

Originally Posted by electro

What on Earth? Details please.

58 ilok licences, including almost all of the EWQL Sample sets. And a Poco x8 with VSS3. This month I bought the Lexicon Native Bundle and the SPL Vitaliser, among others. It mounts up quick enough.

Bob from our office has been talking with the CakeWalk guys the whole time. Our architecture is not faulty. Works everywhere we said it did. Sonar64 has never been on our list. When we get support for Sonar64, we'll add it. And we will get it, but supporting the platforms that are on our list will always be first priority, and we're not putting this off because we don't think VST is important, we just have to prioritize. How many designers do you think we have? We're certainly not CakeWalk with Roland money backing us. No, we're not a one man group either, but we have more platforms than the one man group, and we got lots of cool toys planned, too.
Anyway, we're working toward getting it all running at some point. Then we can all start the fight over why the heck you need 64bit anyway:-) Sorry, just kidding. No fights. We want peace in the World and if not the World at least the forums.

Well Mitch, every other plugin that I own supports automation in Sonar x64, so you tell me which is faulty? And if Bob is talking to Cakewalk it appears to be as often as I've spoken to him (once, in August - and he's a very nice guy, BTW). Alexsey the one man band supports Win VST, Win64VSt, Mac AU and Mac VST.

Doubtless you have lots of cool toys planned. The current toys are cool. They just don't work in a popular 2009 host, and you've no immediate plans to make them work. You're building these new toys without beta testing them in a rapidly growing architecture.

Have a nice xmas

[K-Slash]

Originally Posted by Nolet

please...a pitchshifter...and a Bode Frequency Shifter...pleez...ktnx....

I'd better bet on some others analog modeled plugins or custom analog modeled designs like Decapitator.

[Nolet]

Originally Posted by K-Slash

I'd better bet on some others analog modeled plugins or custom analog modeled designs like Decapitator.

Well...I meant analog modelled pitch shifter and frequency shifter. Like the old Eventide and Moog Modular stuff.

[fragletrollet]

I love you soundtoys!

Any ETA on the price for the Decap?

TheVU meter is not working totally correctly here either (FL Studio 9).

Else than that Im totally happy sounds great. Uses abit of cpu and ram, but I guess ill have to live with that.

[ADamage]

I tried it and I really like it, the bugs have to be sorted out... like the sluggish behaviour, but the A and N mode are perfect.

I compared it to the Wavearts Tubesaturator which I think compares to the P(entode) and T(riode) modes on the Decapitator. The Decap EATS bass in these modes, the Wavearts shines for keeping the overall balance in the sound/mix and then adds some harmonic mojo.

I wouldn't use it on the mixbuss (unlike the more subtle Wavearts TS)... but using the N mode on single tracks sounds great and warms stuff up quite nicely. And you can change the sound radically with the tone controls.

[work2do]

Originally Posted by ADamage

I tried it and I really like it, the bugs have to be sorted out... like the sluggish behaviour, but the A and N mode are perfect.

I compared it to the Wavearts Tubesaturator which I think compares to the P(entode) and T(riode) modes on the Decapitator. The Decap EATS bass in these modes, the Wavearts shines for keeping the overall balance in the sound/mix and then adds some harmonic mojo.

I wouldn't use it on the mixbuss (unlike the more subtle Wavearts TS)... but using the N mode on single tracks sounds great and warms stuff up quite nicely. And you can change the sound radically with the tone controls.

the wet/dry mix control remedies all your concerns

[cane creek]

Originally Posted by Paul Russell

The current toys are cool. They just don't work in a popular 2009 host, and you've no immediate plans to make them work. You're building these new toys without beta testing them in a rapidly growing architecture.

Every time you download Soundtoys software you are required to fill out the form stating what DAW you use, I’m sure this gives soundtoys a clear indication as to where they should concentrate their limited resources.

I read ‘Computer music magazine’ & ‘Futuremusic’ every month and they always dedicate pages especially for Sonar users as well as other DAWs, However on the cover DVD Masterclass videos in the last couple of years I struggle to think of a single occasion I’ve seen anybody use sonar in a video.I know Sonar has a lively forum however if these videos are a fair representation of what’s actually happening outhere in the field then maybe Sonar isn’t quite as popular as you are led to believe.

Some years ago when i was using PC's i had a choice of Cubase or Sonar , i decided to go with Cubase for reliability seems they were the inventor of VST rather than a firm playing around with wrappers .... maybe others used this method in choosing cubase over sonar ?

[cowudders]

Originally Posted by Nolet

Well...I meant analog modelled pitch shifter and frequency shifter. Like the old Eventide and Moog Modular stuff.

finally at least pitchblender, please.

a MODERN clean, deglitched pitchthing, that nobody else can pull off but soundtoys and eventide. The last reason for me to go outboard for digital effects. come on!

cheers,
-b

[KBToys]

Originally Posted by cowudders

finally at least pitchblender, please.

a MODERN clean, deglitched pitchthing, that nobody else can pull off but soundtoys and eventide. The last reason for me to go outboard for digital effects. come on!

cheers,
-b

So what are you using for outboard pitch stuff? Just curious.

[nigel saunders]

Originally Posted by KBToys

Hey, thanks for the report. Just want to clarify this. Are you trying to save using our built-in preset manager, or your host app's? What platform, Pro Tools, Logic, Mac, PC?

Thanks.

KB

Protools with your preset manager

mac osx 10.5

[Paul Russell]

Originally Posted by cane creek

Some years ago when i was using PC's i had a choice of Cubase or Sonar , i decided to go with Cubase for reliability seems they were the inventor of VST rather than a firm playing around with wrappers .... maybe others used this method in choosing cubase over sonar ?

But when you upgrade to Cubase x64 the Soundtoys Native won't work in that either. The problem is that when you decide to go 'native' you can't pick and choose your hosts. Native means, for all intents and purposes, 'universal'. From Reaper to Neundo and all in between.

Please don't tell me I'm not the only pro Sonar user who owns the Soundtoys Native bundle. I know the forum is full of home users who spend all day bitching, but that's just a small part of the userbase. Let's not get all snobby about the 'best' platform. I've been with sonar for over ten years and the workflow works for me. It's a very stable platform and since version 8 the sound has been excellent. Not only that, with x64 I can take advantage of 16GB of RAM and all eight processors, and making the music that I do, I need to. YMMV.

Heck, even TC Electronics are bringing out x64 drivers, and we all know how responsive they are! (BTW, hats off to Steen for the 4.0.0b114 public beta, which is a lot more stable than the versions I was testing in the non-public beta.)

Sure, I've had issues with other plugs, but talking to the developers and putting them in touch with Noel Borthwick, CTO of Cakewalk, has always led to relatively quick resolutions. Noel's team bend over backwards to help a developer gain Sonar x64 compatiblity. Camel Audio turned a fix around in 36 hours. Softube pulled one out in a week on the CL1B. Soundtoys just went, 'yeah one day'. And six months later the new products are coming out with the same issue, so no fix is in sight, and a known error is being compounded.

I'm just wishing that Soundtoys would listen to their entire userbase, not just cherry pick.

Merry Xmas everyone.

[Ermz]

The automation bugs certainly make the prior native pack very impractical to use, given how much filters and delays are usually subject to such things. Glad I found out about it here, because I tore my hair out trying to work out why the delay that ended one of my singles would decay and then suddenly jump up in volume again.

[cowudders]

Originally Posted by KBToys

So what are you using for outboard pitch stuff? Just curious.

an eventide eclipse & a pitchfactor ...