A $28,587 Electronic Drum Library produced with Slutz favorite gear... worth it?

[PlayRadioPlay]

Originally Posted by SteelyMike

I kind of disagree. People almost ALWAYS scroll down to find a price purely from curiosity. And it seems to be working judging by all the comments on this thread.

If it was just a 'standard' type website it probably wouldn't be getting all this attention.

But not because they want to, just because they have to. I view it as an inconvenience. It doesn't provide any sort of 'mystery' or any of that crap. I just want to know the price. I shouldn't have to look at the very bottom of a huge page where it only stands out due to it being a hyperlink.

And no, it's not working. This thread would have more traffic if the marketing was sorted out. Instead, people are coming in here and talking about how crappy the website is instead of talking about the product. "Any press is good press" is nonsense to people that actually know how marketing works.

If it was a 'standard' type website, perhaps there would be more comments in here about how good or bad the product is. Perhaps that's just it, perhaps the product isn't any good so we're just supposed to be distracted by a bad website. I'm kidding, of course. I'll give this guy the benefit of the doubt, and I'll judge the product once I hear it with my own ears, which should be soon.

[chrisma]

Just a quick browse through the samples shows you've got some quality stuff. Thanks!

[elambo]

Originally Posted by SteelyMike

I kind of disagree. People almost ALWAYS scroll down to find a price purely from curiosity. And it seems to be working judging by all the comments on this thread.

If it was just a 'standard' type website it probably wouldn't be getting all this attention.

War and Peace is a famous book. How many people know that name because they have read it and how many know that name because it's the de facto standard reference for intensely wordy literature? The attention that book gets doesn't help convery the content inside because most people don't ever finish. The same applies here, and I have proof because I didn't read the whole website, and I thought the price was $28k, etc.

We're all doing the OP a favor by building up this thread - and I hope he does well - but that's just good fortune. Once this thread works its way down to page 2 he's on his own again. At THAT point, is this the best marketing approach?

[PlayRadioPlay]

Originally Posted by elambo

War and Peace is a famous book. How many people know that name because they have read it and how many know that name because it's the de facto standard reference for intensely wordy literature? The attention that book gets doesn't help convery the content inside because most people don't ever finish. The same applies here, and I have proof because I didn't read the whole website, and I thought the price was $28k, etc.

We're all doing the OP a favor by building up this thread - and I hope he does well - but that's just good fortune. Once this thread works its way down to page 2 he's on his own again. At THAT point, is this the best marketing approach?

+1

It would be a shame for a good product to suffer due to an overly-hyped, sales-pitchy, difficult-to-digest website.

[everythinglouder]

Haha, I don't mind the website at all! It came across as a bit tongue-in-cheek to me. Silly but charming.

[Entrainer]

Here are the Example Tracks people asked for.

CLICK HERE

320kbs MP3...
quick stuff.

Originally Posted by RobAcid

the freesounds are not bad.....
maybe your lib is fat

Thanks. Means a lot coming from you. Cheers-

I like the letter format. It is partly tongue-in-cheek,
but I also want people to understand
that I feel what they are experiencing...
because I am experiencing it as well.

I not some corporate site with a marketing team,
a product development research committee,
and interns that spits a bunch of technical numbers
at the screen.

I'm one person who laid it all on the line to
create the library I always wished I had.

This is designed for working pros who don't want to
be torn from their creative workflow to deal
with B.S. chores that should have been already
taken care of.

I tried to anticipate everyone's needs the best
I could. I even created a dithered 16bit versions
for MPC users.

Because:

It's about the Sounds AND the Workflow.

Now I'm making it available to people for
1/300th of what it cost to create
(not including time to edit every sample,
categorize them each by texture,
map them to EXS-24 and Kontakt Banks)

NOT ONLY THAT, But I'm doing what NO ONE
else is doing in the drum library market.

I'll letting anyone try the entire library at MY RISK.
Do you guys understand that?
(or was it too far down the page... lol,)

Because WORDS on a page doesn't matter.
It's about how this works for you when
it's all on the line.

p.s.

Rob, It is fat. I have no problem saying it.
I busted my ass making this the best Library
I could.

To heck with it. Big up me...
and Thermionic, Roland, Eventide, Source +, Elektron,
Atlas Pro, Neve, Empirical Labs, Korg, Oberheim,
Emu, Anamod, Jomox, Vermona, Moog, Mutronics,
A Designs, Emu, Yamaha, Mogami, Mazda, etc.

Even bigger up them for making great gear that sounds
even better combined.


And people are talking about the sounds in another thread.
I was just giving away sounds in that thread. I didn't have
a product.

Just sounds.

Originally Posted by Telemann

Thanks very much! Those are easily some of the best sounding samples I heard in a long time.

[everythinglouder]

Nathaniel, thanks for posting the example tracks, they sound really good to my ears.

What sort of processing/faux-mastering have you done to the full tracks?

[Entrainer]

Originally Posted by everythinglouder

Nathaniel, thanks for posting the example tracks, they sound really good to my ears.

What sort of processing/faux-mastering have you done to the full tracks?

about 1 to 2 db of DIGITAL drum buss compression.

I think it sounds good...

why?

Because a lot of the character of a hardware compressor
is in the input stage, which is often DRIVEN.

Call me an acid head, but I think the hyped harmonics
bend in a 3D manner with compression...

That's already captured here with
Tubes, Transformers, and ATS-1 Tape Emulation

There's also about 1.5dB of limiting. Nothing crazy.
I wanted to present the depth of the drum sounds.

[everythinglouder]

Don't get me wrong, I love the hyped harmonics. It's a very attractive sound for these sort of samples.

Which compressor plug-in and limiter plug-in did you use? I'm just trying to gauge whether all of the color is coming from the samples or if you're also using a color-heavy bus comp.

[Entrainer]

Either Duende XComp or Duende Buss Comp,
depending on the track. Very gentle.

Elephant 3, fast release, 1-2dB reduction.

(just on those MP3 Tracks, not the collection)

[everythinglouder]

OK so a relatively transparent compressor and a very transparent limiter. Good to know.

Well done on the samples. I'll be purchasing them and I hope many others do too.

Cheers

[Entrainer]

Awesome. Thanks for the kind
words and I really think you
are going to get some great use
from these.

cheers-

[Kenny Gioia]

I think the stuff sounds great. I'll be ordering ASAP.

Don't sweat the website. It looks great. It sold me.

I am inspired!!!!

[PlayRadioPlay]

Originally Posted by Entrainer

Here are the Example Tracks people asked for.

CLICK HERE

320kbs MP3...
quick stuff.



Thanks. Means a lot coming from you. Cheers-

I like the letter format. It is partly tongue-in-cheek,
but I also want people to understand
that I feel what they are experiencing...
because I am experiencing it as well.

I not some corporate site with a marketing team,
a product development research committee,
and interns that spits a bunch of technical numbers
at the screen.

I'm one person who laid it all on the line to
create the library I always wished I had.

This is designed for working pros who don't want to
be torn from their creative workflow to deal
with B.S. chores that should have been already
taken care of.

I tried to anticipate everyone's needs the best
I could. I even created a dithered 16bit versions
for MPC users.

Because:

It's about the Sounds AND the Workflow.

Now I'm making it available to people for
1/300th of what it cost to create
(not including time to edit every sample,
categorize them each by texture,
map them to EXS-24 and Kontakt Banks)

NOT ONLY THAT, But I'm doing what NO ONE
else is doing in the drum library market.

I'll letting anyone try the entire library at MY RISK.
Do you guys understand that?
(or was it too far down the page... lol, I suck)

Because WORDS on a page doesn't matter.
It's about how this works for you when
it's all on the line.

p.s.

Rob, It is fat. I have no problem saying it.
I busted my ass making this the best Library
I could.

To heck with it. Big up me...
and Thermionic, Roland, Eventide, Source +, Elektron,
Atlas Pro, Neve, Empirical Labs, Korg, Oberheim,
Emu, Anamod, Jomox, Vermona, Moog, Mutronics,
A Designs, Emu, Yamaha, Mogami, Mazda, etc.

Even bigger up them for making great gear that sounds
even better combined.


And people are talking about the sounds in another thread.
I was just giving away sounds in that thread. I didn't have
a product or shitty site.

Just sounds.

Nathaniel,

I don't think anyone is questioning your sincerity. And I imagine that many people on this website can relate to you, as many people here are self employed and aren't making the big bucks. Doing what you love isn't as easy as it should be, I can vouch for that as well.

Don't take my criticisms too hard. It's not because I have it out for you or anything like that. In fact, I would love to see you do well selling your hard work. I'm all about the little guys. I'm simply giving my opinion for what I think you can do for your hard work to reach more people.

I'm not saying that your website comes across as unprofessional as much as I'm saying that it comes across as quasi professional. It reads kind of like a "miracle pill!!" advertisement or something. I think some people will see that and instantly dismiss your work because what is actually your sincerity almost comes across as you working too hard to hype up your product. I think your product would be better-represented by a toned back, stripped down sincerity that lets your product speak for itself instead of risking turning people off when they first click on the page.

Alas, that's just me.

And on one hand, Gear Slutz is a community where many people can look straight past your 'marketing' (or perhaps even take it for what it is and enjoy it) and judge your product for what it is, which is hopefully a great sounding set of samples.

On the other hand, some people at Gear Slutz are anti-hype or anti-'miracle gear', and might see your 'marketing' as trying to make up for an over-hyped, poor product.

Anyway, I downloaded the example set (it's a great idea to have that link at the very top of the page) and in the 5 minutes I was able to mess with it before my girlfriend dragged me out the door to see Paranormal Activity in a movie tavern packed full of drunk Halloweeners, it sounded very good. I plan on purchasing it since it's such a good deal and to show my support for you and your great taste in gear. I hope you take some of my advice so that, hopefully, other people that stumble across your website without reading forums like these will be more likely to purchase your hard work.

[Silver Sonya]

Dan, I really appreciate your kind tone. Nathaniel is a good guy. This is a good product. He put a lot of care into it.

Like a lot of great engineers & artists, his focus has been on the work. He's not a marketer, this much is clear! As I said, a new site is on the way. In the meantime, enjoy the tremendous value that's on offer here.

- c

[Entrainer]

Listen, I'm preaching to the choir here.
This is the place where I researched
every single piece of gear I used in
this process.

I have a nice circle of producer friends
who know all the best synthesizers,
plugins, etc...



...They wouldn't know the
difference between a Steel Transformer
and Optimus Prime.

It's a hell of a lot sexier to them to spend
$28.5k on synths than esoteric analog
processing that's only available from
boutique shops.

I have a friend who's toured the world
as a DJ, has many 12" techno records.
He asked me to send pictures of my gear,
so I did. He's never even seen 3/4ths of
the gear ever before.

So, when I say "Recorded with the Pro's
Secret Equipment", some guys already
know, but he's intrigued. I have to
explain it to him in a way he can relate
to.

"Do you know how the MPC3000 or EMU
SP1200 makes a drum "Punchier" when
it's sampled?

This is the same process (Drive, Inherent
Limiting, Harmonic Distortion) but through
a wide variety of flavors."

or, "do you like the trim up a bit on your
Mackie 8 Bus? Not distorted, but just a little
bit? Well, imagine something like that, but
much better, and on every drum sound
in a musical way inside your computer."

If I just put technical specs on a site:

* 1684 Drum Sounds recorded in
24bit resolution.

* Recorded with Nickle, Iron, Steel Transformers.

* Cut to the zero point crossing.

On a small page with $77, that means nothing
to him. It flies over his head, like I'm speaking
Klingon.

Drum Machine names mean something to him, but
he wouldn't know why this is different than any
other samples. Why it's literally unavailable to
anyone without a ton of money and a lot of work...
until I did the reckless thing of draining my
retirement account and making it happen.

[Entrainer]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

Dan, I really appreciate your kind tone. Nathaniel is a good guy. This is a good product. He put a lot of care into it.

Like a lot of great engineers & artists, his focus has been on the work. He's not a marketer, this much is clear! As I said, a new site is on the way. In the meantime, enjoy the tremendous value that's on offer here.

- c

Thanks man. Very kind.

If I was a pro marketer, I'd make everyone
sign up for my mailing list before giving
away the demos. Then I'd spam the heck
out of them every week.

Instead, I just put free sounds at the top
of the page to grab.

[Entrainer]

Originally Posted by Animus

What makes me laugh the most is the "lifestyle" pictures that are littered throughout the webpage.

Those made me laugh too.

I was going to put the screenshots below on
the DMD site, but didn't really like the way
they looked...

I DO think they illustrate the point
I'm trying to make though.

Two screenshots of ACTUAL Commercial
samples that I've purchased...

This doesn't make me laugh.

No Headroom + Clipped:



Not very tight... requires editing (which pisses me off when I'm writing and breaks my flow)




vs. what I've tried to provide:

DMD Headroom:



DMD Edited by Hand:

[JeffSanders]

Your samples sound excellent. The website, as others are saying, comes across exactly like this: The Quantum Cookbook - How to Manifest What You Want - which is an annoying style that is very popular in those types of sites, imho.

Maybe link to that info instead of laying it all out on the front page.

I also noticed an endorsement from cdsoundmaster, which made me have to wonder - are you using 100% hardware or are you using their Nebula libraries?

[Entrainer]

Originally Posted by JeffSanders

Your samples sound excellent.

THANK YOU!

Originally Posted by JeffSanders

I also noticed an endorsement from cdsoundmaster, which made me have to wonder - are you using 100% hardware

100% HARDWARE!

CDSoundMaster.com

I highly recommend it.
Michael is an awesome guy. Very intelligent, kind, and supportive.

I replaced the standard tubes with
NOS 1957 French Mazdas.

Here's mine w/ the Mazda tubes:

[Entrainer]

Originally Posted by PlayRadioPlay

It reads kind of like a "miracle pill!!" advertisement

I appreciate your kind tone as well.

I take that quote as a compliment.

I literally tried to make this as much as a "magic pill"
Drum Library as I possibly could.

And re: Nebula
I'm a big, big supporter of that product and community.
I think anyone who uses Nebula and has downloaded
the mass of free material I've created can attest to
my commitment to quality and giving back.

And, if I say I'm ONLY going to sell a certain number
of copies, I mean it.

Giancarlo and Michael are cool dudes.

Gearslutz is the forum I reference on the DRIVEN MACHINE DRUMS
page.

Here's the actual topic where it occurred. My POST #1...
Looking for that Magical Electronic buzz/aliveness
100% true story. I was looking for a way to warm VST synths.
I never expected to process drums and then become so addicted.
That Culture Vulture was the GATEWAY DRUG.

So, I appreciate ALL the constructive criticism. I'll be fine
tuning and perhaps toning back... but I'm kind of an
over the top dude in real life...

I'd like some honest feedback re: MP3 Demos and
a player.

Do you feel it's a distraction or a benefit?

Are the sounds and EXS-24/Kontakt Demos enough?

I think the sounds speak for themselves and I
usually get turned off by MP3 demo tracks because
they aren't my taste. Musical taste is a varied thing.

But good electronic drums work in many genres...

Thanks ya'll.

[SampleMan]

gonna give these a shot Ill Be back!

[cdsoundmaster]

Hi Jeff,

Just to add some info about the hardware:

Nathaniel and I had many conversations about the best way to get the most out of the Source + Plus and what tubes would achieve the best results for his project. I designed the concept for my own 2-channel outboard mastering without any additional electronics to degrade the sound, but I make it available for purchase to others on a limited basis. It has an ability to fine tune the 'bigness' of the sound without audible distortion, and with a great deal of tunable control of both independent triodes. The design is also specifically created to interface with other hardware in a way that helps other hardware perform at its best.

I've heard examples of his music and sound design unrelated to the hardware or the sound collection. What impressed me the most when I listened to this release is that he's made use of the outboard gear in a very beneficial, and sonically tangible way. It has his own signature quality of polished, dimensional sound.

Drums are also my primary instrument and I was a percussion major at one point, so I tend to be a bit obsessive about good drum sound

Originally Posted by JeffSanders

Your samples sound excellent. The website, as others are saying, comes across exactly like this: The Quantum Cookbook - How to Manifest What You Want - which is an annoying style that is very popular in those types of sites, imho.

Maybe link to that info instead of laying it all out on the front page.

I also noticed an endorsement from cdsoundmaster, which made me have to wonder - are you using 100% hardware or are you using their Nebula libraries?

[Drazique]

Just ordered these! The audio demos convinced me immediately! Can't wait to start using these in my productions..

[Renan L.B]

I own Battery 3.0 and i noticed it isn't supported as a format? which package should i buy?

[Entrainer]

The 24bit Wav and 24bit Aif work with Battery,
so the Standard Package would be perfect.

thanks!

[mat1]

Sorry man but that site looks like one of those pyramid scheme work-from-home scams

[Entrainer]

Originally Posted by mat1

Sorry man but that site looks like one of those pyramid scheme work-from-home scams

That's fair.



By now you feel compelled by Pyramid Power

p.s.

And who doesn't want to work from home.
Nice studio, wake up whenever, release some tracks,
watch the Beatport or iTunes sales roll in.

Sounds like a dream life to me...

I know about 20 people personally who do this.
(two of them gave a testimonial on that page)
Then they fly out and play gigs around the world,
like mountains in Japan, a stone pit in Detroit, or
beaches in Brazil.

Most aren't making a killing, but enough to
sustain a cool lifestyle where they get to
decide when to work, when to relax, what
to wear.

They don't have to go to the BOSS MAN like
Oliver Twist and say "excuse me sir, can I have
some more please?"

[Renan L.B]

I bought them on a hunch, i didn't even listened to the free samples and amazing the sound is exactly what i was imagining in my head GREAT GREAT work there Entrainer! These are definitely NOT just another drum machine set They are richly detailed, warmer, a touch bigger (3D depth feel) than most and "alive" and full (thanks the harmonic distortion of the hardware for that?) they are really great and the precise editing at sample-level for each and everyone of them is a life safer. As an example DMD-AnaSnr29 i never heard this warm "ringing" quality before in other drum machine samples, it's so real and depthful. Loved the "Bass Boosters" awesome warm and useful bass tones/kick enhancers there!

The only thing i miss is folders for each drum machine sound. I know you divided the sounds into categories and there are processed sounds aswell but i would really like to browse folders quickly as:

Elektron Machine Drum
Symbolic Sound Kyma Capybara
Eventide H8000FW
Korg ER-1
E-mu SP-1200
Oberheim DMX
Emu Mo Phatt
Yamaha DX200
Roland TR909, TR808, TR707, TR606
Vermona DRM-1 MKIII
Jomox MBase 11

I don't know the sounds of most drum machines that's why i would like a folder structure like this with the original sounds to get "acquainted" with them LOL i'm mostly familiar with the Roland ones.

[Entrainer]

Originally Posted by Renan L.B

These are definitely NOT just another drum machine set
They are richly detailed, warmer, a touch bigger (3D depth feel) than most and "alive" and full
(thanks the harmonic distortion of the hardware for that?)

AWESOME!
I'm so sincerely pleased that you enjoy
them, and that you are experiencing
the same thing I did.

It's tough to write about sound, because
words, meaning, and people's perception
of sound is always subjective.

I'm not going to say it's Harmonic Distortion
alone. There are plug-ins that create
harmonic distortion that don't quite sound
like this.

I think it's a combination of really well
designed gear. Each device has a very distinct
signature, but I imagine every piece is adding
some harmonic distortion.

A lot of the sounds are stacked, like a form
of synthesis. I'm a synthesist at heart, so
I used the tools in that manner.

I took some flack re: hype... but how else
can I communicate what I really feel is a
breakthrough in a Drum Library?

"It ain't bragging if it's true"

It's not me as much as the gear and the
combination, which is why I say I literally
stumbled upon it.

The convertors and cable also play a roll in
capturing the depth.

Originally Posted by Renan L.B

The only thing i miss is folders for each drum machine sound. I know you divided the sounds into categories and there are processed sounds aswell but i would really like to browse folders quickly as:

list

I don't know the sounds of most drum machines that's why i would like a folder structure like this with the original sounds to get "acquainted" with them

I understand where you are coming from
with this. I considered doing that.

I ultimately chose against it. This is going
to get a tad heavy, but it's so important to
me.

First and foremost, I'm an electronic musician.
I've been producing dance records for 15 years.
I only say this to emphasize I have thousands of
hours clocked with 100s of machines, libraries, and
software interfaces.

In this time, I've noticed that when I enter
a "Flow State" of pure concentration, my art is
the best.

Being in that state is how I try to organize
my life, gear, personal libraries, literally
everything... because that's when I get the best
rewards. I feel that any time that gets disturbed,
I'm losing out on magic.

That is ultimately why I organized the sounds by
texture in the subfolders.

I know when I'm writing that a deep kick is working
within a track...
I didn't want to jump to 8 different folders with
8 textures each. The 909 can make deep,
sharp, soft, high... so can the MBase 11. I just
want more deep kick options... but not too many.
Just enough.

Names are logical, texture is musical... make
sense?

While it is great to be acquainted with the
machines and what they sound like, perhaps
you'll enjoy getting acquainted with the textures
in the sub-folders.

With the EXS24 and Kontakt banks, I literally
spent a month even further organizing each
sound and grouping them on the keyboard
by texture. That way I didn't have to change
a bunch of octaves looking for similar sounds
for fills and variations.

So, thanks Renan for having faith and taking
action on a whim. That is an admirable quality
in it's own right.

Have fun!

Nathaniel