Black Lion Summing Box

[ThunderShepherd]

i'm interested in this as well

[superiorsound]

anyone using this unit?

[TH79]

i'm not sure its actually shipped yet so I'm guessing no.

[Bristol Posse]

I Just figured out my taxes and am using the refund to get my old PM8 modded, it's on it's way to Chicago now

According to the folks at BLA, the only parts of the original they use are the case, the knobs and the power supply. Everything else, circuits transformers etc is their own stuff so I'm excited to get it back.

now I really have to start working on my own technique since I will basically have all the gear I ever need so my crappy mixes are entirely my own fault

[LeMauce]

Lets us know asap how it sounds men! Post sample's of mix before use and after if you can!

[Fishmed]

Originally Posted by LeMauce

Lets us know asap how it sounds men! Post sample's of mix before use and after if you can!

I am curious how it sounds too!

[gregovertone]

any updates?

[Bristol Posse]

Just Arrived

[fragletrollet]

Originally Posted by Bristol Posse

Just Arrived

Excited! Seems like we are going to be the distributors in Norway thumbsup

[fragletrollet]

Any news?

[houseplant]

Whats the word? Very curious as to what the unit sounds like.

Also:
I've seen a couple contradicting posts regarding the PSU... One source says the PSU is stock SM...the other says the PSU is a BLA concoction. Any clarification? Also curious as to the tranny's used... custom... or cinemag/carnhill/etc?

Cheers in advance

[jonnymac]

i cant find anyone with real world experience.
no reviews online anywhere.

can someone chime in if you've had experience with this?

[Bergman]

Originally Posted by jonnymac

i cant find anyone with real world experience.
no reviews online anywhere.

can someone chime in if you've had experience with this?

+1

It would be nice to see some pics from the insides.

[Guitar Zero]

Someone please tell us how this thing sounds.

[Bristol Posse]

A little update on my newly modded PM8

having had the PM8 in it's original form for a while, there are some nice features with the BLA mod

First of all BLA replace everything except the Power supply which is the original SM one, and the knobs on the front. All inputs are now transformer coupled. The option of using a D sub input is now gone since this port is now used to potentially daisy chain 2 units together
The big difference (aside from the sexy red faceplate) of course is the nice output transformer on the master output 1.
There is definitely a taste of Iron on this pair of outs. Gives some nice taste to the low end and I like the feel of space in the mix which (subjectively) I didn't feel as much before. The Master 2 transformerless makeup gain section seems pretty transparent and clean for when needed.

I have caveat all of this by saying I'm not particularly experienced at this stuff and have only been working at it for a little over a year and a half so I am not particularly experienced with a lot of other gear or mixing a lot of songs so you should be warned, I am far from an expert opinion.
also I'm mainly focussed on writing and rehearsing some new material at the moment so I havent done any serious mixing on this yet, just compared some pre Mod mixes files through the modified box, which is not very scientific at all. But I don't want to kill my flow by going back over old stuff just to play around with my new summing box, at the expense of preparing to recording new stuff to mix through it, ultra tempting as that is

I would say that bang for buck wise for about the same price as a passive only folcrom you get a 3 option (passive, transformer and transformerless) box from BLA, which I think is a pretty nice set of options. Of course since it lacks it's own converters you at the mercy of whatever you have, unlike if you go with a Dbox muti channel summing option (although that's a lot more money to spend)

If you drink the cool aid as far as OTB summing and hybrid mixing (I do) then I would say this is a nice entry level option in the good gear range.

[baslotto]

So as far as I know, either BLA doesn't give a damn about this product or the box doesn't sound as good as they thought. By now we should have had tons of reviews from people who got the unit for free for a period of time to rave about it. Not happening?

By the way Bristol thank you for being the only one who gave some feedback about this unit in 8 months!

[Wheelomatic]

My only issue with the whole summing box concept -- and I get it, I really do -- is taking your audio back out of the digital realm, warming, fattening it up and going through another conversion to put it back in the DAW. I love my Profire 2626, and it comes with a pretty decent converter (especially for my meager abilities and needs) and I clock externally. But w/out Myteks, Apogee's, etc., I'm just not so sure about the multiple AD/DA conversion capability of my set-up. But I've heard people with similar prosumer equipment as mine swear by it.
Timidly,
Wheels

[Bristol Posse]

Originally Posted by Wheelomatic

My only issue with the whole summing box concept -- and I get it, I really do -- is taking your audio back out of the digital realm, warming, fattening it up and going through another conversion to put it back in the DAW. I love my Profire 2626, and it comes with a pretty decent converter (especially for my meager abilities and needs) and I clock externally. But w/out Myteks, Apogee's, etc., I'm just not so sure about the multiple AD/DA conversion capability of my set-up. But I've heard people with similar prosumer equipment as mine swear by it.
Timidly,
Wheels

Just try some loopback tests, it take a couple of minutes and you won't have to wonder any more if this is even a real world concern. Send a stereo track out of your profire outs (I have one of those too) and straight back in again to the line ins and record the result. Line em up and listen to them see if there is a difference you can notice, heck you could even null test them.
My own test on my gear found that even on my "prosumer gear" the imperfections of conversion were so miniscule that perhaps superman on his very, very best day might be able to hear them if he was really, really trying to hear a problem

If you trust the A/D to record live sound and the D/A to monitor mixes then what is the reason believe the D/A back to A/D required for the use of any outboard gear is all of a sudden not good enough to handle it.

IMO if any interface, even a prosumer one or even a soudblaster card can't adequately handle one round trip of there is a major problem with the interface that would be immediately obvious in a first generation recording or in monitoring playback.

[Wheelomatic]

Thanks Bristol for breaking me off some knowledge. I'm glad to hear from someone with the same interface as me. I may do a more "real world" test per your recommendation with an old Mackie 1402 mixer a friend has. And see what I hear. You're also right, there's no reason for me to be a namby pamby. Experiment. It ain't like I haven't experimented before (recording strikes to a crinkled paper bag over a couch pillow to "fill" out a snare -- spent days lining that one up to the original snare and it sounded ********. Of course I left it in for the ******** vibe that my songs invariably generate).

Thanks again for the insight.
Wheels

[Bristol Posse]

Originally Posted by Wheelomatic

Thanks Bristol for breaking me off some knowledge. I'm glad to hear from someone with the same interface as me. I may do a more "real world" test per your recommendation with an old Mackie 1402 mixer a friend has. And see what I hear. You're also right, there's no reason for me to be a namby pamby. Experiment. It ain't like I haven't experimented before (recording strikes to a crinkled paper bag over a couch pillow to "fill" out a snare -- spent days lining that one up to the original snare and it sounded ********. Of course I left it in for the ******** vibe that my songs invariably generate).

Thanks again for the insight.
Wheels

Yep, you shouldn't take my word for it any more than you should take an opposing opinion posters word for it. Test your gear and know for sure.
I tested just the conversion first, profire out straight to profire in, to prove to myself that what I accademically believed (ie 1 round trip of the signal was not a problem for the converters) was in fact true in my situation on my equipment

Then add the outboard and see what is different and know for sure that it is because of the mackie or whatever it may be, and not the conversion (assuming the converters pass muster on the first test)

There are so many opinions on so many forums that seem to say nothing but the preverbial "64 thousand dollar" converters are good enough for round tripping a signal it got me scratching my head and thinking, but if that is the case how can anyone possibly record and mix a record on anything but this "perfect gear". if the conversion were really that bad on anything else, it would have to show up immediately in anything you recorded or listened back to. After all listening to a recorded track is a round trip of A/D to D/A if you think about it.

Once I realized how easy it is to set up these kind of tests, 30 seconds to plug 2 TRS calbles from 2 line outs to 2 line ins. hit record, Record 30 seconds of material. zoom in and ensure the two files line up, make sure the levels match, phase invert one track hit play and see if there is any audible variance or if they simply null so far down into the noise floor that they are to all practical purposes, essentially the same, I test all kinds of stuff on these boards that peak my interest that may or may not impact my sound.

Total time taken 5 minutes which is less time than it takes to log on to a forum, do a search for converters, find a relevant thread and read the first couple of posts.
Now instead of a bunch of strangers opinions of generalities I have specific knowledge of the only thing that is really important to me: MY GEAR

I'm always amazed that more newbs like me aren't prepared to do this for themselves but will run out spend hard earned cash on stuff because of what some guy on the web said. Strange world we live in!

[Wheelomatic]

I'm always amazed that more newbs like me aren't prepared to do this for themselves but will run out spend hard earned cash on stuff because of what some guy on the web said. Strange world we live in!

Oh, I don't intend to spend my hard earned cash on converters. And my point was I wasn't sure it was necessary to splurge on the summing box but rather continue to rely on bouncing down in the box via Ozone, McDSP, etc. But you raise a very good point. How does it sound on your gear. Not the technical and intellectual back n' forth between cats on boards with Ph.Ds and/or better equipment than I'll ever get to play on let alone own.

No, the motto I've tried to stick by regarding indecent expenditures of my family's discretionary income is, "It's the chain, stoopid." In other words, I'd much rather spend $3,500 on an API 7600 and a JJ/Joly mod'd mic than on Apogee or Lynx. Thanks again for you insight and real world experiences.
Wheels

[denlig]

still no user info on this summer? im thinking about purchasing this or 2 bus lt

[Fishmed]

Originally Posted by denlig

still no user info on this summer? im thinking about purchasing this or 2 bus lt

Don't forget to check out the MixBuss by Imagimotion. This what I have been using for the past couple years and just love it.

[Mr Funk]

In Passive mode, would the original SM Pro version sound just as good as the BLA version in passive mode?

Anyone have a schematic for the SM Pro by any chance?

[OVERNIGHT]

Cant find any pictures of the back of the unit... is it 1/4" ins, DB25 or XLR ins?

[Bristol Posse]

Originally Posted by OVERNIGHT

Cant find any pictures of the back of the unit... is it 1/4" ins, DB25 or XLR ins?

Dsub to Chain to units together.
Combined XLR/ 1/4" inputs
XLR outputs

[Unknown soldier]

Originally Posted by baslotto

So as far as I know, either BLA doesn't give a damn about this product or the box doesn't sound as good as they thought. By now we should have had tons of reviews from people who got the unit for free for a period of time to rave about it. Not happening?

By the way Bristol thank you for being the only one who gave some feedback about this unit in 8 months!

yeah, you have to wonder why this piece of gear is under the radar while the rest of their products are talked about extensively.

[lectric]

I am intersted in your experiences¡¡¡¡

[OVERNIGHT]

Question: you don't really need a monitor controller after the summing box do you? Some I imagine choose to though, correct?

Seriously, no reviews yet???

[Fishmed]

Originally Posted by OVERNIGHT

Question: you don't really need a monitor controller after the summing box do you? Some I imagine choose to though, correct?

Seriously, no reviews yet???

Your outputs would need to go into a recording device (PC or sopme sort of two track recorder); you would need some kind of controler from that device to hear what is being recorded.