Dave Lebolt leaves Digidesign for Apple?

[Stiff]

Originally Posted by Sascha Franck

Maybe he's seen the light, too? So he want's to get away from the old hardware paradigm?

If by "light" you mean "native", then maybe. I don't see a reason to apply religious terms to any of these tools myself

Fact is, you can already do fullblown productions on an entirely native system, including latencies as low as PT offers. For native systems, compatibility is less of an issue, either. So why would one want to spend all that extra money at all?

Indeed. So why do people continue to spend the extra money on PT, because AFAIK, they are. Because of ease of use? Industry standard reputation? Because the neighbors and the school has it? Plug-ins? Non-native processing? I don't know. A fair assumption would be a mixture of a lot of things.

IMO, unless Digidesign comes up with some extraordinary features noone else offers, or some plugins that simply won't run in a native environment, their days will be over more or less soon-ish. Yes, I know, so far they are still enjoying some sort of industry standard praise, but that might as well change quite soon.

Regarding features, have you used elastic audio? There's nothing in Logic or any other DAW I've used that comes even remotely close to it. I've always felt Pro Tools was better at handling audio than the rest, and despite the VI revolution, a lot of people still work with audio.

I think the exchange of features we're seeing in DAWs today are interesting in one way, boring in another, but even if they are getting closer and closer to each other most of them still have some features the rest don't.

I agree with you that the "industry standard praise" might change. Also keep in mind that features doesn't determine the winner of a battle as long as the battle is over consumers. The C64 didn't become the best selling computer at the time because it was the best for instance. Maybe Reaper will shake the world, have all the brilliant features all the rest have and completely take over (in my book that would be pretty awesome to be honest, if they just could make a decent Mac release). Or maybe Reaper will have all the brilliant features all the rest have and NOT take over.

Native solutions are just incredibly much more convenient. People want to be mobile and compatible. And even a little bit of inbetween bouncing (or freezing) is something most folks will happily deal with, in case they can even work on their songs on top of the Kilimandjaro. You simply don't want to carry your HD rig there.
Further, native processing has even outruled some hardware solutions already.

Mountaintop recordings are intriguing, but definitely not something the majority of the engineers and musicians are doing. I'm torn here. I REALLY like the idea of a completely portable system, and it is doable if you're doing a certain kind of jobs but:

1) A lot of engineers will want their high-end preamps to record through, maybe a couple of compressors or an EQ, a microphone collection etc. etc. A lot of musicians will want to have their Fenders, Marshalls, Moogs and so on. Sure you can do location recording with that, but there's a lot of things that take up more space than an HD system. ITB productions - from start to finish - is definitely not for everyone.

2) The whole "record where you want" idea, with flashy ads showing a MacBook and a Duet or Mbox in the jungle or whatever looks good on picture, even in thought, but to be completely honest, how many do you think actually do that stuff often? Again, I LIKE the portable idea and I'm going out TODAY with LOGIC - not PT - to write some stuff, but don't you feel this entire idea is incredibly hyped? Most people I know work in studios all the time, I do it almost all the time myself.

Just look at the virtual synth development. There's nothing like a hardware counterpart for something such as Zebra 2.

Yep, pretty awesome. I'm definitely not an advocate against working ITB. I'll be the first one to say "stop emulating, start innovate".

In 10 years (at best), nobody but the most traditional folks will use hardware for audio processing anymore. There's absolutely no way around it, especially in times of a rather critical situation for both world finances and the recording industry.

Wow! Easy there! The world change, economical crises comes to an end (at least historically) and trends change - but the future isn't certain! Maybe the next big thing is an Mbox/Duet-type of device with the processing power of a HD7? Be careful when predicting the future.

Either way, nice chatting to you

[charles maynes]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Charles and KK, do you know of anyone running PCIx in a chassis and switching to a new PCIe Mac? Then running a adapter PCIe to PCIx card? I understand it saves you from having to upgrade all the HD cards. I believe the adapter card is $1100.

I think there are people doing it, but I would not see the real benefit unless one had a lot of legacy cards, I know if I were to do it, I would upgrade my present cards to PCIe.

but thats just me.

[Sascha Franck]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

Just as an aside, the head of ProApps at Apple has been great to deal with whenever I've had a problem. I won't mention his name here (he doesn't need any more traffic, I'm sure), but I hope that doesn't change. He's great.

Ahem - good for you to have a direct contact. Just that this doesn't mean anything for us mere mortals. Apples support is non-existant.

- Sascha

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Charles and KK, do you know of anyone running PCIx in a chassis and switching to a new PCIe Mac? Then running a adapter PCIe to PCIx card? I understand it saves you from having to upgrade all the HD cards. I believe the adapter card is $1100.

I was considering it at one point, but as I recalled there were some problems. You really should check the DUC on this one. I know there were some threads.

[tobymusic]

Originally Posted by Sascha Franck

Ahem - good for you to have a direct contact. Just that this doesn't mean anything for us mere mortals. Apples support is non-existant.

- Sascha

I have to agree. To me, Apple's "pro app" policy is nothing but ignorant. The worst in the industry in my opinion.

Toby

[kk@jamsync.com]

Originally Posted by Sascha Franck

Ahem - good for you to have a direct contact. Just that this doesn't mean anything for us mere mortals. Apples support is non-existant.

- Sascha

I'm a mere mortal. I had a problem with an upgrade, got no relief from the people who answer the phone for support, so I uploaded my complaint to several prominent Apple forums and to a couple of places where it got picked up and blogged about. Some people on the Apple forums were incensed that I would bother them, but I really needed that Final Cut Studio upgrade to work. The cross-grade number simply did not work. I was accused by two people of lying (gee, thanks), but the fact is, I went back to the Final Cut package from rev 1 and the original number didn't work as the key, either.

So, after being insulted in several places on the 'net and thoroughly blown off by low-level Apple support, the head of pro-apps emailed me and assured me he had looked up my history (I've had, I think, 15 Apples and thousands of dollars of Apple sw) and knew I wasn't lying and btw, here was a number that should work.

I'm not the kind of person who backs off when there's something wrong. I can take a lot of flak if I have to in order to make something right.

That being said, I don't feel like I should have to fight anyone else's battles, since I'm so battle-scarred myself and I do think the guy has a right to privacy.

[Sascha Franck]

Originally Posted by Stiff

If by "light" you mean "native", then maybe. I don't see a reason to apply religious terms to any of these tools myself

Don't get me wrong, I am in no way serious when using religious terms or anything.

Indeed. So why do people continue to spend the extra money on PT, because AFAIK, they are. Because of ease of use? Industry standard reputation? Because the neighbors and the school has it? Plug-ins? Non-native processing? I don't know. A fair assumption would be a mixture of a lot of things.

As far as I can see it (from my very personal perspective) it's mainly because of PT being some sort of industry standard indeed and probably also because of the "just works" reputation (whether that is completely true I wouldn't happen to know, but whenever I've been in studios using PT rigs, I didn't hear or experience too many complaints about stability).

Regarding features, have you used elastic audio? There's nothing in Logic or any other DAW I've used that comes even remotely close to it. I've always felt Pro Tools was better at handling audio than the rest, and despite the VI revolution, a lot of people still work with audio.

I completely agree with you. And that's exactly why I said that if this would be changed in, say, Logic, it'd be a serious native contender. Right now it clearly isn't.
Really, I am seriously impressed by what you can do in PT on the audio side of things.
But that doesn't mean it would be impossible to do the same on a native platform - if only someone implemented it.
I am absolutely positive that Digidesign has a few brilliant minded coders on the audio side of things. Something the Logic development team all too apparently lacks of.

I think the exchange of features we're seeing in DAWs today are interesting in one way, boring in another, but even if they are getting closer and closer to each other most of them still have some features the rest don't.

Yeah, but this will defeniutely change, too. I think, in the long run only a few DAWs will survive, at least on a professional level. Maybe even just one or two per platform.

Mountaintop recordings are intriguing, but definitely not something the majority of the engineers and musicians are doing. I'm torn here. I REALLY like the idea of a completely portable system, and it is doable if you're doing a certain kind of jobs but:

See, I'm not saying you're not right at all. As a guitar player, I still love my amps as well. And we're rather far away from a point when I will stop using them (for various reasons, not even exactly for sonical ones).
But, as far as DAW work goes, I enjoy the comfort of being able to do mobile work like around 150 days a year. Heck, the last 2 more or less serious "studio" jobs I have been involved with were done in a hotel room (I simply recorded my guitars there and then uploaded the tracks via FTP). People were absolutely happy with my sound, too (fwiw, I mainly used Overlouds TH-1 and NIs GuitarRig with some external cab IRs added occasionally).
Of course, this is not a requirement if you run a recording studio business, but seriously, I'm seeing more and more folks taking their projects home or on the road to continue working - simply because very often precious studio time is too expensive or because of "locality" issues.
And, obviously, this is where native systems shine.

Again, I LIKE the portable idea and I'm going out TODAY with LOGIC - not PT - to write some stuff, but don't you feel this entire idea is incredibly hyped? Most people I know work in studios all the time, I do it almost all the time myself.

Of course it is hyped (ads always are hyping). And on a top professional level, it might indeed be of less relevance.
But see my example of recording guitars in a hotel room. This is something I see happening more and more. And even if the idea of complete mobility may indeed be over-hyped (I mean, for serious audio processing work you defenitely need a power outlet anyway, even the most powerful laptops available won't do it without for longer than, say, 2 hours), but then, again, take my personal situation as an example. The hotel room exemple might be a bit too extreme, but when I record guitars for others, this usually doesn't happen in studios anymore. It usually happens at my home. And as I'm not doing any serious productions myself (as said, I'm "just" a guitar player with a few further ambitions, such as doing demos and what not), a native system is the perfect solution. And regarding such a situation, I can say "yes, we're almost there", the reasons for the "almost" being that, say, Logic is so incredibly lousy when it comes to any things audio editing.

Wow! Easy there! The world change, economical crises comes to an end (at least historically) and trends change - but the future isn't certain! Maybe the next big thing is an Mbox/Duet-type of device with the processing power of a HD7? Be careful when predicting the future.

I'm not trying to predict the future, it may as well be totally different - but I'm clearly seeing a trend of a move towards native solutions. And while your "common" studio might not care at all, due to lower revenues from producing music, lots of folks can't afford, say, producing, recording, editing and mixing an entire album in a studio anymore. As a result, quite some tasks are outsourced. A guitar player might just record his/her guitars at home. Same with a keyboarder. Take comping could as well be done somewhere else. The same applies to something such as guide tracks that you may work along with - these can easily be done in a rehearsal room. Etc, you get the idea.
And this is already happening today. Very often even. And none of the tasks requires an even remotely fullblown PT rig. It doesn't even require a PT LE setup at all (of course, without a doubt it's very convenient to collaborate with folks using the same platform/sequencer, hence the "industry standard" moniker). It wouldn't even require a 100% stable system - I mean, of course I could just book a ticket to Cupertino and have a chainsaw with me whenever Logic crashes for whatever stupid reasons, but as long as these crashes aren't wasting precious studio time, it's not really that much to worry about in case it doesn't happen like each 5 minutes. In other words, any more or less decent native setup in fact *does* get the jobs mentioned done already. No need to buy any specific hardware, computer or operating system.
IMO the "big" solutions (lots of outboard gear, fullblown PT rigs, large recording facilities, etc.) will find less and less paying clients in the very near future. As said, it's already happening. Native is the way to go. These days, native solutions already offer a multitude of power (and probably sound quality, all "digital vs. analog" wars aside) of what was available in quite some top studios, say, 20 years ago. And they did some great sounding recordings back then, didn't they? (Ooops, ok, 20 years ago it's been the 80s and a lot of recordings were somewhat questionable...)
Sure, you still need a great sounding room, a bunch of quality mics and some decent preamps/converters to track your drummer, but once that is done, the rest of the work can as well happen somewhere else, sometimes even in your bedroom studio or, heck, on top of the Kilimandjaro (even if the climate there is tough to deal with, according to my father who's been there 4 years ago).

Either way, nice chatting to you

Dito.

- Sascha

[Sascha Franck]

Originally Posted by kk@jamsync.com

That being said, I don't feel like I should have to fight anyone else's battles, since I'm so battle-scarred myself and I do think the guy has a right to privacy.

Of course he has.
But Apples general lack of customer support and communication is absolutely outstanding, no matter how you put it.

- Sascha

[C.Lambrechts]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Charles and KK, do you know of anyone running PCIx in a chassis and switching to a new PCIe Mac? Then running a adapter PCIe to PCIx card? I understand it saves you from having to upgrade all the HD cards. I believe the adapter card is $1100.

HD6 Accel in a Magma PE6R4 chassis. Mac Pro dual 2.66

Couldn't be happier ....


Chris

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by Stiff

PTHD is of course also challenged by this, but it's surprising to see people sitting with 5+ years old systems not even thinking about an upgrade. That's a damn long lifespan for a computer system if you ask me.

I'm not taking any sides here but that investment in a decent sized HD system is the same investment of 30years of updating your Mac to the latest Mac every 5 years , 6 updates of around $2800 is $16,800....

[Silvertone]

Originally Posted by Sascha Franck

Of course he has.
But Apples general lack of customer support and communication is absolutely outstanding, no matter how you put it.

- Sascha

Wow, this is not the case I just had. I was try to register some new computers and monitors and the link was not working. Called Apple and was picked up in less than 5 minutes and I was talking to tech support. Had everything done 10 minutes later... never had that with a lot of other computer/software based companies... I was a happy camper anyway...

[Jules]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

I think it just illustrates that people will see what they wish to see, when they wish to see it. To those who have been predicting, wishing or hoping for the demise of Digi for years on end, any piece of information will be interpreted by them as supporting their position.

People move jobs all the time. Perhaps Dave hit a glass ceiling at Digi and there is more upward movement possible for him at Apple?

A little bird recently told me "Digidesign" will get re branded to be "Avid" over the next year or so. The film and audio devisions wont have two separate corporate ID's any longer - just the one - "Avid".

[Sascha Franck]

Originally Posted by Silvertone

Wow, this is not the case I just had. I was try to register some new computers and monitors and the link was not working. Called Apple and was picked up in less than 5 minutes and I was talking to tech support. Had everything done 10 minutes later... never had that with a lot of other computer/software based companies... I was a happy camper anyway...

Sure. This is what they always seem to be doing well. I had a faulty OSX installation DVD and 2 days later I got a new one.
But as soon as it comes to software support, all you get is either nothing or clueless folks on the phone. I only remember being at a friends studio a while back, he had some issues with his interface and Logic (I don't exactly remember what it was), so we called the Pro App support (which he had subscribed to). The person on the other end of the line was... well, I rather don't say what I think of him - just so much that "clueless" would be quite an understatement.

In addition, at least when it comes to software, I also expect user wishes to be heard and realized. Plus, I do of course expect at least some more or less regular bugfixes. In case of Logic, this is clearly not happening at all anymore, at least not during the last 2-3 years. Now, it might very well be that they're all too busy working on the next big bang, it might as well be that hiring someone like Mr. Lebolt speaks volumes for some, but that doesn't help with the fact that Logic 8 has some outstanding bugs and annoyances that would require some urgent fixes - and they'd better be released yesterday. Just that they weren't. Currently, Logic support is simply not existing.

Add to this Apples lack of communication. Of course, we all know that this is "typical Apple behaviour", but then, as long as the applications you're using are supported fine (such as in quick bugfixes and proper updates), who cares. It's just the combination of no communication and no software updates/support is really as arrogant as it gets. I can't imagine any other company to get away with such a behaviour towards their (partially extremely) loyal customer.

In the end, someone as Dave Lebolt being hired by Apple might indeed be a good sign. But it might as well be too late already. I mean, us Logic users are waiting for a decent bugfix since over a year already. And they hired DL just now... so, to see some effect of that move, it might just take another year or two.
For me personally, this is the last year of waiting for a decent Logic update. If they don't deliver, I'm back to Windows, regardless of how much it'll hurt to finally leave what could've become the finest sequencing software in the world.

- Sascha

[~ufo~]

Originally Posted by Jules

A little bird recently told me "Digidesign" will get re branded to be "Avid" over the next year or so. The film and audio devisions wont have two separate corporate ID's any longer - just the one - "Avid".

Fine with me, I think Avid is a much stronger brand name than Digidesign anyway.
Digidesign, to me sounds like something thought up by a non native english speaker.

[mattrixx]

Well Sascha,
I wont go quite as far as going back to windows, but I have been using ProToys for some projects where I otherwise wouldn't have in recent times.
The Logic wait... or should I say weight?... is getting a bit long in the tooth! It would be nice to know the path Apple plan to take.

Anyway, I'll just keep on keeping on.

[Sascha Franck]

Originally Posted by mattrixx

I wont go quite as far as going back to windows,

Fwiw, you know what? I can't even say "going back" - in my case it'd actually be a step forward. Apart from very few things, I happen to prefer Windows anyway, and in case I'm more or less forced to leave Logic, I'm pretty much sure that I will just start to really like Samplitude or Cubase (or even Reaper, who knows...). Most of the plugins I use are x-platform, so I'll only miss out on Logics internal ones (which, of course, would be quite a sad thing) but would regain access to some other marvelleous things (WaveLab as your standard editor, some kickass Win-only freebies, a decent file browser, etc.).
In fact, if I could find a Windows laptop and a sequencer offering the same combination of CPU power, efficiency and mobility as I'm getting from my Macbook and Logic, I'd be all over it instantly. Too bad that for now there's not exactly an alternative - the truly powerful Windows laptops are not exactly travel-friendly, and that's pretty much a must for me.

- Sascha

[mattrixx]

Originally Posted by Sascha Franck

Fwiw, you know what? I can't even say "going back" - in my case it'd actually be a step forward. Apart from very few things, I happen to prefer Windows anyway, and in case I'm more or less forced to leave Logic, I'm pretty much sure that I will just start to really like Samplitude or Cubase (or even Reaper, who knows...). Most of the plugins I use are x-platform, so I'll only miss out on Logics internal ones (which, of course, would be quite a sad thing) but would regain access to some other marvelleous things (WaveLab as your standard editor, some kickass Win-only freebies, a decent file browser, etc.).
In fact, if I could find a Windows laptop and a sequencer offering the same combination of CPU power, efficiency and mobility as I'm getting from my Macbook and Logic, I'd be all over it instantly. Too bad that for now there's not exactly an alternative - the truly powerful Windows laptops are not exactly travel-friendly, and that's pretty much a must for me.

- Sascha

Sascha,
Hang in there mate..... i remember you from the early Logic user group, when everyone was on 28k dial up. Your posts were always helpful etc... and we used to have a bit of fun there too with the devs.... times have changed
I'm with ya on the frustration etc, but as long as we keep on makin' stuff we get paid for, then things aren't dead in the water.
As you mention, there are heaps of options in the windows world, but they don't come without the price of portability and reliability. If it were that simple, I reckon there'd be a bunch of us all over it with you!
Regards,
Matt

[Sascha Franck]

Originally Posted by mattrixx

Hang in there mate..... i remember you from the early Logic user group, when everyone was on 28k dial up. Your posts were always helpful etc... and we used to have a bit of fun there too with the devs.... times have changed

I remember these days pretty well, too. By now I have unsubscribed from the mailing list and asked a moderator for my account at the forum to be deleted. I feel much better this way because over the last 1-2 years the moderation wasn't what I associate with being fruitful or whatever you may call it (I'll save you from more details...).

I'm with ya on the frustration etc, but as long as we keep on makin' stuff we get paid for, then things aren't dead in the water.

You know, for my own main work I probably wouldn't even need any advanced sequencer (I make almost all my living by being a live guitar player). It's just that I do as well some parttime work as in teaching sequencing classes at the local music university, and further, I somewhat just happen to like living "on the edge of technology". In addition, I'm betatesting for quite some companies, something I pretty much like as well. And seeing Logic to be that much behind in so many areas is just frustrating. When I finally made the switch from 5.5.1/Win to 7, I also didn't expect a much better communication with Apple (I mean, it's quite wellknown how they deal with such things), but I certainly *did* expect much better support in terms of Logic being updated and probably even setting some new standards. Regarding all that, Logic 8 was the biggest dissapointment I've ever seen in my "sequencing life".
Sure, it's running quite well, and as said, I haven't seen any other laptop/OS/sequencer combination offering that much power and mobility, not even remotely. But that doesn't make dealing with the countless bugs, annoyances and missing features much easier.

As you mention, there are heaps of options in the windows world, but they don't come without the price of portability and reliability.

Seriously, while things were horrible with Windows 95, while they were better with 98 but still annoying sometimes, ever since I use XP, I haven't experienced any less reliability than with my Macbook and OSX. And while Vista was more or less a flop, Windows 7 seems to be a rather nice step forward.
Sure, it *is* a fact that there's some security issues when dealing with Windows, but once you are aware of them and know how to deal with things, they're really not crucial anymore (fwiw, just as with my Macbook, all my Windows machines were/are connected to the web as soon as I switch them on, and the last time I got a problem was when I really had no clue, back in the Win 95 days).
And regarding program stability, I experience just as many/few crashes on either platform. In fact, I think the most stable sequencing environment I ever used was Logic 5 under Windows (ok, I needed to weed out certain bad plugins, Logic wasn't that much compatible...). Too bad it's really not useable anymore on any more or less up to date computer - I'd probably still be using it if it supported multicore machines and larger amounts of RAM. Apart from very little things, the improvements from L5 to L8 are not essential to my workflow at all (in quite some areas it even was a huge step back, at least IMHO).

Anyway, sort of back on topic: I do think that hiring such a competent person could be great for Apples pro audio (and probably also video) division. But, we all (including me, even if I was quite frustrated when Emagic dropped the Windows platform) did already expect that from the Logic/Apple buyout already. IMO it hasn't exactly taken off yet. Sure, Core Audio seems to be a really userfriendly standard, and I'm sure that the Logic programmers had their fair share in bringing it further. But I don't see much else that is really spectacular or anything. Yes, Logic is extremely efficient, especially at low latencies - but it has been like that even back under Windows (the performance improvements compared to the machine I was using back then are pretty much along the lines of higher CPU speed and larger RAM amount). When Im looking at the hassle tons of people are having with system overloads, "error to synchronize audio and MIDI" messages, pretty much flaky multi CPU support, a lot of old and still annoying bugs, etc. - then I really need to ask myself what the heck they were doing during the last 5-7 years.
Compared to what others have achieved in the same time, the true technical improvements are rather minimal. On the MIDI side there's absolutely nothing new (and it could be improved massively) and audio-wise Logic isn't even remotely catching up with any of the other somewhat bigger sequencers anymore. Sure, there's some welcomed improvements and I certainly also don't mind having some cool plugins and a whole bunch of samples (some of them even rather nice) being thrown in for free. But none of the improvements adressed the major issues or requests people were having (ok, post pan sends are really welcomed and have been asked for quite often). I don't remember anyone asking for more plugins, more content, a cheaper price or whatever...
So, as said, in my book the Apple takeover wasn't of much benefit for Logic, so hiring someone like Dave Lebolt isn't necessarily something I'd expect too much from.

OTOH, it might as well be that Apple realized the situation. While they do in fact have a video editing suite (FCP) that could probably be called "industry standard", "flagship" or whatever, Logic isn't even close to such a position in the professional audio production scene. Sure, it's still installed in about any studio working with Macs, but once it comes to tracking and editing larger amounts of audio (especially in a multitracking scenario), it's almost certainly something else that people are using (usually PT, but there's also a tendency towards Nuendo in some parts of the world).
So, in case Apple really wants to set new landmarks in the professional audio scene, it could as well be a great idea to hire such a competent person.
All too obviously, the combination of the best low latency compatible sequencer, companies doing the hardware required to achieve such low latencies (Apogee) and companies doing control interfaces (Euphonic) is pretty much what it takes to become the socalled "Pro Tools Killer". Add the right personal to finally bring some new life to the development of things and the future could indeed be sort of bright...
But I have been dissapointed by such things too often to really put too much hope into it.

Guess we'll see.

Bleh, way too many words. Gotta have a swim now.

- Sascha

[oceantracks]

I think everyone is dreaming if they persist in taking Logic too seriously. Logic is trapped in Apple, and Apple will never make Logic the priority that Digi makes PT. That alone will doom the program. They've had like one update in two years. They still have bugs in the program, according to some Logic users, that have been there for years.

And despite the native power Logic offers, you still have to deal with it's horrid interface and propensity to make decisions for you, creating AUXes automatically, shooting tracks across the screen in the mix window when put them in an automation mode, etc, etc. The interface is ugly and terrible and the audio editing is far inferior to PT.

I use both programs and have done much good work in Logic, but unless I'm on something that needs a million tracks, PT8 is so much more of a professional interface. And running PT8 at high buffer settings during a mix has worked well for me, I have had no CPU issues even with a lot of heavy plug ins etc.

The problem with Digi is their dumbing down of PT LE, and their refusal to open it up to outside interfaces. They should just charge 2000 for it, like Nuendo does, and let you use what you want.

TH

[hmurchison]

Guys

Don't turn this into another Logic bitch fest please. The thread is about Dave Lebolt and I'd like to think about the positive things that he'll bring to Apple.

I like the drive and spirit that he'll bring. I'm thinking that his influence isn't going to be as heavy on Logic which is developed in Germany but rather getting the California team on track and delivering good tools.

I'm not surprised he jumped to Apple. Apple prices their software so that mere mortals can afford it and thus you have the opportunity to make an impact with Apple.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Guys

Don't turn this into another Logic bitch fest please. The thread is about Dave Lebolt and I'd like to think about the positive things that he'll bring to Apple.

I like the drive and spirit that he'll bring. I'm thinking that his influence isn't going to be as heavy on Logic which is developed in Germany but rather getting the California team on track and delivering good tools.

I'm not surprised he jumped to Apple. Apple prices their software so that mere mortals can afford it and thus you have the opportunity to make an impact with Apple.

It's not a bitch fest, more a reality check. Lebolt is going to a company whose priorities are iPhones and iPods, not pro audio.

Apple prices their software, like Logic, because you have to buy their hardware to run it

TH

[Football]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

And despite the native power Logic offers, you still have to deal with it's horrid interface and propensity to make decisions for you, creating AUXes automatically,
TH

Just to offer up another point of view on that, I love that it creates AUX's automatically. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by Football

Just to offer up another point of view on that, I love that it creates AUX's automatically. I wouldn't have it any other way.

If I want to send the audio from one track to another, for instance to record an autotuned version of a vocal, I don't need Logic to create an AUX. Now I have to go delete the new aux or mute it.

TH

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

It's not a bitch fest, more a reality check. Lebolt is going to a company whose priorities are iPhones and iPods, not pro audio.

Apple prices their software, like Logic, because you have to buy their hardware to run it

TH

Good point Tom. A lot of people complain about how Digi ties their software to their hardware, but in reality Apple does the same by forcing anyone who wants to use Logic to purchase a Mac in order to do so. For most of us this isn't a problem, but it is a proprietary hardware/software system just the same.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

It's not a bitch fest, more a reality check. Lebolt is going to a company whose priorities are iPhones and iPods, not pro audio.

Apple prices their software, like Logic, because you have to buy their hardware to run it

TH

iPhone/iPods generate Billions ....Logic Pro generates millions I'm not Finance Major but I think the former is preferrable to the latter in money.

I see reality as iPod/iPhone bring immense profits in which allows Apple to focus on more niche areas like Audio and Video production. Sure they sell Mac Pros and Macbook Pro but they aren't making a killing from the hardware though they make better margins than industry standard.

Dave L is walking into an Apple that has never existed before. An Apple that has top not talent from the CEO down throughout the C-Levels and Directors. An Apple that understands technology, marketing and operations.

I'd want to ride that wave, look for that next challenge. If Apple want to take a chunk out of Digidesign/Avid they will. It's as simple as that.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

iPhone/iPods generate Billions ....Logic Pro generates millions I'm not Finance Major but I think the former is preferrable to the latter in money.

I see reality as iPod/iPhone bring immense profits in which allows Apple to focus on more niche areas like Audio and Video production. Sure they sell Mac Pros and Macbook Pro but they aren't making a killing from the hardware though they make better margins than industry standard.

Dave L is walking into an Apple that has never existed before. An Apple that has top not talent from the CEO down throughout the C-Levels and Directors. An Apple that understands technology, marketing and operations.

I'd want to ride that wave, look for that next challenge. If Apple want to take a chunk out of Digidesign/Avid they will. It's as simple as that.

Your first sentence is all you need to remember

TH

[Studio Addict]

And keep in mind that most times, an exec goes to another company for more money, a "bigger" title, or -- truth be told -- both of those in conjunction with less actual work.

He most likely got hired for his organizational and motivating/guidance skills. The field of choice doesn't matter so much. He'd do just as well at a shoe company.

So all this talk about how he's "taking ProTools to Apple", etc. is most likely moot. He'll help develop and market whatever Apple tells him to.

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

Your first sentence is all you need to remember

TH

Yes but attempts to make the connection between iPods and Apple not caring about Pro users is a logical fallacy.

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by charles maynes

I think there are people doing it, but I would not see the real benefit unless one had a lot of legacy cards, I know if I were to do it, I would upgrade my present cards to PCIe.

but thats just me.

An HD6 upgrade? With a new computer and chassis? That's more than an upgrade these days, that's the national debt.
I am one of those guys who will hold onto my setup as long as I can.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Yes but attempts to make the connection between iPods and Apple not caring about Pro users is a logical fallacy.

I said they had priorities, and Logic is not one of them. One update in nearly two years should tell you something, especially when they update didn't even fix some of the major complaints people were griping about, like the track comp stuff and folder bugs.

Digi updates their software constantly, and their tech support is second to none. Apple will bar you from their forum for even speculating about what new features might be coming or when they may arrive (well to be fair, you will receive an email warning first).

I want the DAW I spend hours a day in front of to be the main focus of the company who makes it. If you believe that to be the case with Apple and Logic Pro, more power to you.

TH