Dave Lebolt leaves Digidesign for Apple?

[Petermix]

Originally Posted by hipass

I had know idea that near total domination of studio & film post market was failure.
Plus nearly every major live tour I have seen in the last year are now using Digidesign consoles.

Here ur answer right there lol!!!

Originally Posted by never174

There's no way digi is going down. That would be as much a fantasy as the stock market crashing or big banks closing or...........

New England Digital anybody???

[George Necola]

the digidesign installation guys I know are crazy busy "as usual"

I think there is a wrong picture of this company on gearslutz. just because the Mbox users are not happy, it's not that digi will fail soon, or something.

this is just a management decision. I think it doesn't affect the development of new digidesign products.

cheers

[by-tor]

Originally Posted by George Necola

the digidesign installation guys I know are crazy busy "as usual"

I think there is a wrong picture of this company on gearslutz. just because the Mbox users are not happy, it's not that digi will fail soon, or something.

this is just a management decision. I think it doesn't affect the development of new digidesign products.

cheers

Yup!

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by George Necola

I think it doesn't affect the development of new digidesign products.

cheers

Hardware, probably right. Software? well, erm, let's wait and see...

[charles maynes]

Dave is a force of nature and truly one of the most passionate people I have ever had the pleasure of knowing....


I will say this- Dave used to love Performer, and he is absolutely intolerent of stupid. If I were on the Logic team I would be preparing my asbestos suits...

A lot of other Digi folk have moved to Apple over the years as well. The biggest thing going against this is Apples tendency towards mass market products, not vertical market solutions.

Interesting times are ahead....

[gearsux]

DL and Logic dudes have history and its not exactly a love story (much the opposite) so i wouldn't expect a slam dunk in the kill digi-avid arena. Also, he's going to be concentrating more than just Pro Apps (he'll be covering all software). If apple have shown us anything in the last 3 years, it's a focus on ease of use and pandering to consumers with products like (iLife) iMovie, iPhoto, iPhone, all powerful apps that don't really have relevance to high end production (albeit very powerful and fun products that can produce great content).

Pro Apps like Final Cut, Logic & Apeture have all been hindered in what they can accomplish because of how Apple hand ties their development cycles, limits how many releases they can issue to fix bugs and respond to customers. Final cut has definitely won the video market in the low and mid end. but they have no where near the penetration with Logic in the music space (and nowhere at all in Post). For every person on this forum who says they are jumping ship and moving from Pro Tools to logic, there are three moving from Logic to Pro Tools 8 because when it comes to mixing, editing, file collaboration and creation, logic can't touch Pro Tools.

Companies like Digi & MOTU have done a better job of putting out releases that are meaningful and follow it up with bug fixes that keep sessions rolling.

As i understand it DL has been out of the picture in the day to day development for a while and newer developers have been responsible for the last few major versions of Pro Tools (7 & 8). This is not the end of digi, not by a long shot.

[Toro]

good maybe now i'm going to be able to chop waves in logic

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by George Necola

I think it doesn't affect the development of new digidesign products.

Probably true, but Digi has already almost quite putting out new hardware. 192's will soon share vintage status with Teletronix.

[Sascha Franck]

Originally Posted by Toro

good maybe now i'm going to be able to chop waves in logic

In 2013, maybe.

- Sascha

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by gearsux

For every person on this forum who says they are jumping ship and moving from Pro Tools to logic, there are three moving from Logic to Pro Tools 8

Of course I agree that PT for a while has been way ahead of Logic in terms of elastic time and audio quantizing, and your statement above could be right, but according to this poll, which contains question about people moving from Logic to PT and vice versa, more than three times as many report that they have moved from PT to Logic than the other way round.

In a few years both Logic and PT are going to be more than good enough to do everything we need, and people will then make their choices based on other considerations: innovative-ness, being compatible with colleagues and studios, price, freedom to choose the interfaces you want, stability, track/plug-in count, ease-of use and so on.

PT8 was in many ways a response to Logic 8, and of course Logic needs improvements in the audio editing department. Logic had elastic audio and audio quantize before anyone else (AFAIK), but it was destructive and worked on mono/stereo tracks only. Of course Apple knows that they need to catch up regarding non-destructive, multi-track elastic audio as well.

The main problem for Digi with Lebolt moving over to Apple may be that he has been as inside Digi's plans and possible visions as it gets. The other problem Digi has is of course that people's former willingness to pay for DSP power has been a main income for them, and this market has changed a lot already - and will continue to change dramatically.

Apple has taken a massive bite of the video editing market, they are getting lots of people who earlier needed PT over to the various native solutions, and they could even head towards the live market if they so wished: They could make a live oriented software that supported all kinds of 3rd part hardware controllers, based on native DSP - which already is more than powerful enough to deal with a live show. *

Digi simply has to tune into all this, and maybe DL's move over to Apple isn't the best thing that could happen to them - but who knows... maybe Apple acquires Avid one day as well?

I don't know anything about the Lebolt move than what has been written on various sites today, but at least it seems to confirm that Apple (of course) still is focusing on pro audio.

* [ETA: I guess you already can use Logic (or maybe even Mainstage?), and any CoreAudio supporting hardware controller to do that already - at least to some extent.]

[PlatinumSamples]

If I were looking for someone to replace Jobs... Dave would be high on my list.

Rail

[Jules]

Originally Posted by PlatinumSamples

If I were looking for someone to replace Jobs... Dave would be high on my list.

Rail

Wow! That's quite a statement!

I reckon at his career stage you either turn left and open the door marked Apple or turn right and open the one marked Google.

Man I used to bug him about feature gaps on ProControl. (Trim scrub) I finally got them about 6 years later when I moved over to HD....

Dave Lebolt?

There's an app for that!

[Jules]

OK guestimate here..

Perhaps he will be tasked with making video editing and audio recording - an iTablet touch screen experience?

[~ufo~]

re: digidesign's next hardware move.

my impression is, speculated from what I hear hither and thither, that digidesign know they should work on releasing a new system, but that they are as yet quite unsure what that system should be.

[Shaggy2039]

I've been using logic for 10 years and am blown away how CPU processor speeds have finally "caught up" with plug ins. Remember when you could only run a few Sonnox EQ's on an old 888 system? They'd take up almost an entire chip. Now, I'm running 6 Sonnox reverbs and EQ's, multiple instances of Soundtoy's Echoboy, etc...all off my 2008 MacBook Pro! It's pretty incredible...

Point is - the need for mix cards was Protools biggest advantage against Logic and now that's no longer the case. Logic is gaining serious ground on PT.

The ONLY thing I've noticed, and tell me if I'm wrong, is that Core Audio pukes out a little quicker then Digi's audio engine. Levels get hot very quickly in Core Audio. Maybe this is what Apple is working on? A new audio engine?

[Ermz]

Given that both companies have a model based on bleeding their userbase, I'm sure he'll fit right in.

My question is, what does this bode for Digi? Will there finally be a convergence and a decent native DAW offering from them?

[Petermix]

Originally Posted by George Necola

I think there is a wrong picture of this company on gearslutz. just because the Mbox users are not happy, it's not that digi will fail soon, or something.

So only "Mbox users" are not happy eh? Riiiiiiiight.... didn't know my HD4 Accell system qualified as an Mbox....

Originally Posted by Shaggy2039

Point is - the need for mix cards was Protools biggest advantage against Logic and now that's no longer the case. Logic is gaining serious ground on PT.

And that's the bottom line.
Especially in this economic climate, NOTHING can justify the prices Digi's asking for features readily available with a Macpro+Logic.
They would have me pay top dollars just to switch from PCI to PCIe with NO features added whatsoever!!!!!!! That's just plain GREED.
My Logic setup is getting lotsa love these days, way more so then my HD setup and I will never pay DIGI-type prices anymore... NEVER.
Of course, your mileage may vary

[Football]

Originally Posted by Petermix

My Logic setup is getting lotsa love these days, way more so then my HD setup and I will never pay DIGI-type prices anymore... NEVER.

Same here. Digi can bite me. They were behind the times with very basic/very important features (important TO ME) so I sent the loudest message I could by keeping my wallet in my pocket.

Always excited about native apps moving forward. We have sooooo much power for audio with modern computers now. The main thing taxing nowadays can be VI's and Digi's RTAS sucks ass for efficiency with them.

[Nowak]

Yep, gotta agree there.

My Logic setup gets all the love these days also.

PTHD for tracking duties and that's all, then it all gets flown to Logic for mix.

Stef

[O'Ryan]

I'm a happy M-Box user.......Regardless of Pro Tools or Logic or Cubase, People will never be satisfied.

[Petermix]

Originally Posted by Nowak

PTHD for tracking duties and that's all, then it all gets flown to Logic for mix.

Exactly!!!!!

[d1rtynyc]

Dave, if you're out there... please, PLEASE, PLEASE update audio editing in Logic! The way you have to edit in Logic is way behind the times, 10 yrs or more.

[Uncle Joe]

Originally Posted by C Heat

Hardware, probably right. Software? well, erm, let's wait and see...

G'day,

Some modest comments on "State of Affairs" ...

For music, unlike a $500 software program, people are only paying a buck or two a song, and it's those dollars and pennies that have to add up to pay for not just the cost of that song, but the investment in the next song.

I really think it is amazing that people actually buy software

Mates ... It's hardware that makes a machine fast. It's software that makes a fast machine slow ... People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware. I guess that you get the software you pay for. In every sense. To the nth degree. That's the way the world works. Less is more these days ... No ?

FYI ... Basically the CPU is dead. Yes, that processor you see advertised everywhere from Intel. Its run out of steam. The fact is that it no longer makes anything run faster.

Always remember that ... In computing, hardware acceleration is the use of hardware to perform some function faster than is possible in software running on the general purpose CPU. It is what it is.

"Avid Audio" ... new hardware ? ... Possibly too risky for a company based mainly on 3rd party plug-ins and market shares that are obviously down. It's easy to forget sometimes, a share is not a lottery ticket... it's part-ownership of a business.

Pro Audio ... It's tough out there for all of us.

All the best,

Uncle Joe


.

[Stiff]

Originally Posted by Uncle Joe

Mates ... It's hardware that makes a machine fast. It's software that makes a fast machine slow ...

Awesome!

[Stiff]

A question to those who think Digidesign is behind their times, Pro Tools outdated, and feel Logic and Apple is taking over: Do you think it's wise to bring in an ex-digi employee, and former general manager at that?

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Stiff

A question to those who think Digidesign is behind their times, Pro Tools outdated, and feel Logic and Apple is taking over: Do you think it's wise to bring in an ex-digi employee, and former general manager at that?

Apple's assembling a dream team of management in many areas. They just nabbed two AMD/ATI graphic vets (Drebin, Koduri) and now they appear to be adding top level talent in their pro apps division.

I think Apple is a lot more serious about this verticle than people give them credit for. Apple's already had their shakeup two years ago. They decided that it was finally time to move to Intel only and eliminate legacy frameworks.

Everything that many complain about (lack of features or instability) can be directly attributed to Apple trying to juggle too many redundant elements.

As for Digi they will be fine but the death knell for DSP systems has been sounding for some time now. We have 8-core systems today. In two years we'll have 16 -core workstations with 32 threads. Each core will be 4Ghz and have access to very fast main RAM.

The writing has been on the wall. Native systems will take the mantle before 2015 and won't look back. Apple will show what they can do when the next Logic Studio and Final Cut Studio show up in 64-bit and support Grand Central Dispatch in Snow Leopard.

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by Stiff

A question to those who think Digidesign is behind their times, Pro Tools outdated, and feel Logic and Apple is taking over: Do you think it's wise to bring in an ex-digi employee, and former general manager at that?

I think it just illustrates that people will see what they wish to see, when they wish to see it. To those who have been predicting, wishing or hoping for the demise of Digi for years on end, any piece of information will be interpreted by them as supporting their position.

[Shaggy2039]

Originally Posted by Stiff

A question to those who think Digidesign is behind their times, Pro Tools outdated, and feel Logic and Apple is taking over: Do you think it's wise to bring in an ex-digi employee, and former general manager at that?

If Apple is working on a new system based on Logic with some sort of proprietary hardware component (I'm guessing Apogee for converters) then this is exactly the move you would make to overtake PT. You would grab their senior staff who have extensive knowledge of the pro consumer base, and who has the relationships at retail to fully market and execute this new system as the first *TRUE* ProTools killer.

[Sascha Franck]

Originally Posted by Stiff

A question to those who think Digidesign is behind their times, Pro Tools outdated, and feel Logic and Apple is taking over: Do you think it's wise to bring in an ex-digi employee, and former general manager at that?

Maybe he's seen the light, too? So he want's to get away from the old hardware paradigm?

Fact is, you can already do fullblown productions on an entirely native system, including latencies as low as PT offers. For native systems, compatibility is less of an issue, either. So why would one want to spend all that extra money at all?

IMO, unless Digidesign comes up with some extraordinary features noone else offers, or some plugins that simply won't run in a native environment, their days will be over more or less soon-ish. Yes, I know, so far they are still enjoying some sort of industry standard praise, but that might as well change quite soon.

Right now, I see it like that:
- Sonar and Samplitude are Windows only (still a platform that some audio folks smile at, for whatever reasons...).
- Cubase has performance issues when running it at very low buffersizes (especially under OSX).
- Reaper doesn't offer certain features demanded by some professionals (mainly in the MIDI area), plus the OSX version still isn't too shiny.
- Logic is excellent at low latencies and plugin efficiency but lacks a whole world of features in the audio department.

Should any of those see a major improvement regarding the mentioned flaws, PTs days could dwindle away rapidly.
Native processing is where it's at, there's no way around it.
Remember when Steinberg introduced VST (the marvelleous WunderVerb and its colleagues)? Or the first VSTi (Neon)? People were having a good laugh (I've been at the very first VSTi presentation in Frankfurt/Musikmesse). These days, there's almost no studio anymore using, say, hardware samplers. And all that happened in a mere 10 years or so.
Native solutions are just incredibly much more convenient. People want to be mobile and compatible. And even a little bit of inbetween bouncing (or freezing) is something most folks will happily deal with, in case they can even work on their songs on top of the Kilimandjaro. You simply don't want to carry your HD rig there.
Further, native processing has even outruled some hardware solutions already. Just look at the virtual synth development. There's nothing like a hardware counterpart for something such as Zebra 2.
In 10 years (at best), nobody but the most traditional folks will use hardware for audio processing anymore. There's absolutely no way around it, especially in times of a rather critical situation for both world finances and the recording industry.

- Sascha

[hmurchison]

Originally Posted by Shaggy2039

If Apple is working on a new system based on Logic with some sort of proprietary hardware component (I'm guessing Apogee for converters) then this is exactly the move you would make to overtake PT. You would grab their senior staff who have extensive knowledge of the pro consumer base, and who has the relationships at retail to fully market and execute this new system as the first *TRUE* ProTools killer.

I don't think the Apogee hardware will even need to be proprietary. It just needs to do what the Ensemble and Duet do now. By integrating the hardware with core OS X technology Apple gets the control they want but they don't shut out 3rd party developers that utilize Core Audio either.