Redline Reverb

[clw123]

Originally Posted by 25ghosts

Beats the C*** out of CSR. And it is nice for the price. But it looses ground severely over the VSS3 from t.c.electronic and Princeton Digital. Does not compete well either with reverb one from digi. However, those are all TDM and if it wasn't for convolution reverbs in RTAS, Redline would probably be my goto reverb for Protools LE. Nice work.

Hi,
lol I was being polite when I said "a nice step up from CSR".

How does VSS3 compare to Sonnox ?

-Chris

[25ghosts]

Originally Posted by clw123

Hi,
lol I was being polite when I said "a nice step up from CSR".

How does VSS3 compare to Sonnox ?

-Chris

IMO vss3 is a fantastic reverb. I used it on the 6000 and really liked it. Then I got the TDM version and that is the only algo. reverb I use. I did try the sonnox and found it great but it did not quite blend in with the mix like the vss3 did. BUt then again taste is part of everything :-) These days I use convolution reverbs (altiverb) much more than algos.

[Washington]

I respectfully salute the fact that more and more plugin manufacturers (if that's not a plain oxymoron) seem to have very respectful policies about copy protection, fair pricing, great demo period etc. For you to know dj!, that's a solid criteria in my book. Thank you.

[bing81]

Originally Posted by Football

I saw someone else post something similar to the "gritty" comment. I just don't hear that at all IMO, it sounds to me very lush like an old piece of Lexicon hardware.

Well, I finally had a moment to test it on my PT8 system. Wow ... sorry, but sounds pretty terrible to me. Metallic and the opposite of lush (whatever that might be). Just for fun, I compared some of the "presets" with the same ones in my real Lexicon M300. Someone has a great sense of humour. Not even close, not even remotely.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong .. though put it on an Aux, send into it, what else could there be? Don't appreciate the 8000+ sample delay in PT either.

Not for me.

B

[dj! (112dB)]

Originally Posted by bing81

Maybe I'm doing something wrong .. though put it on an Aux, send into it, what else could there be? Don't appreciate the 8000+ sample delay in PT either.

I'm not going to argue about taste in reverb since that's an entirely personal matter and you're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but are you sure we're talking about the same plugin? Redline has exactly 0 samples latency.

Peace,

-- dj!

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by dj!

I'm not going to argue about taste in reverb since that's an entirely personal matter and you're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but are you sure we're talking about the same plugin? Redline has exactly 0 samples latency.

Peace,

-- dj!

I can confirm this as well, being an end user (although haven't made the purchase) in PTLE 7.4; 0 samples of latency. Also, like stated above no one can tell you that you're wrong in your taste for reverbs that's for sure. Even I thought Redline sounded fairly meek compared to my trusty ol' Lexicon 200, but I thought it sounded a hell of a'lot better than any impulse from TL Space, including some newer 3rd party IR's.

IMO, it sounds on par with Breveb, which is more than 3x the price of the Redline. I'll probably end up making the purchase if/when the few bugs for us lowly PPC users gets fixed.

[dj! (112dB)]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

I'll probably end up making the purchase if/when the few bugs for us lowly PPC users gets fixed.

I'm happy to say that's a 'when' and not an 'if'--the fix is ready and we'll release the 1.0.1 maintenance build within a couple of days. (Knock on wood.)

Take care,

-- dj!

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by dj!

I'm happy to say that's a 'when' and not an 'if'--the fix is ready and we'll release the 1.0.1 maintenance build within a couple of days. (Knock on wood.)

Take care,

-- dj!

Very nice. However, I have to say I'm quite a bit more excited about the upcoming EQ. It looks like a perfect fit for me in regards to function. I really, REALLY hope that EQ is also 0 samples of latency.

If that EQ is in fact 0 samples of latency, and sounds on par with the SSL G-EQ and uses similar CPU power I can pretty much run "dongle free" between the 112db and Massey plugs.

[dj! (112dB)]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

If that EQ is in fact 0 samples of latency, and sounds on par with the SSL G-EQ and uses similar CPU power I can pretty much run "dongle free" between the 112db and Massey plugs.

Sorry to have to disappoint you but it will have some latency--a necessary evil since zero-latency linear-phase EQ is not even technically *possible*.

On the positive side: another EQ (based on DQ7) is in the works, and while that one does have zero latency it will lack many of the nifty features of the upcoming EQ--precisely because those features are only made possible by the latency introduced. If you absolutely require no latency that one might fit you better; if it's features and versatility you're after the latency is, unfortunately, something you'll have to live with.

-- dj!

[Marando]

Originally Posted by bing81

Well, I finally had a moment to test it on my PT8 system. Wow ... sorry, but sounds pretty terrible to me. Metallic and the opposite of lush (whatever that might be). Just for fun, I compared some of the "presets" with the same ones in my real Lexicon M300. Someone has a great sense of humour. Not even close, not even remotely.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong .. though put it on an Aux, send into it, what else could there be? Don't appreciate the 8000+ sample delay in PT either.

Not for me.

B

I can't imagine you have tested it good enough. I simply can't believe that!

This reverb really is amazing after I have been testing it for a few hours. And I have made some presets myself wich I think sound like expensive hardware reverbs. It simply does not sound digital at all! But ofcourse it depends on the settings. It is possible to tweak some settings to make it sound very very bad, but with the right settings, it is absolutely an amazing reverb plugin. I did not find a better (native) reverb plugin yet.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by dj!

Sorry to have to disappoint you but it will have some latency--a necessary evil since zero-latency linear-phase EQ is not even technically *possible*.

On the positive side: another EQ (based on DQ7) is in the works, and while that one does have zero latency it will lack many of the nifty features of the upcoming EQ--precisely because those features are only made possible by the latency introduced. If you absolutely require no latency that one might fit you better; if it's features and versatility you're after the latency is, unfortunately, something you'll have to live with.

-- dj!

On that EQ, it seems that you can choose between different algo's or what ever for each band. Will the latency of the EQ be the same even if none of the bands are selected as "linear-phase"? I've honestly never used a linear-phase EQ so I don't really know anything about 'em.

[dj! (112dB)]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

On that EQ, it seems that you can choose between different algo's or what ever for each band. Will the latency of the EQ be the same even if none of the bands are selected as "linear-phase"? I've honestly never used a linear-phase EQ so I don't really know anything about 'em.

Correct. The EQ behavior can be selected for each band individually, with a separate (and independent) knob to adjust the overall amount of phase shift--anywhere from linear phase to anything but.

Without getting too technical, linear phase EQ has the least possible coloration and allows for very transparent adjustments--but comes at the price of inherent latency. The upcoming EQ makes it possible to dial in the amount of phase shift to taste, but because of the way it works internally the latency will remain constant for all settings. I wish it were different but these are technical limitations, not incompetence. At least I like to think so.

Peace,

-- dj!

[bing81]

Originally Posted by dj!

Redline has exactly 0 samples latency.

On an Audio channel as the first plugin, yes, zero. But on an Auxillary channel as the only insert, it shows 8228 samples latency. Similarly, on an Audio channel if I put it after a TDM plugin, it adds 8228 samples.

This on a HD system running PT8, Mac G5.

Of course, if there's a way of fixing this, let me know, but as it is, for me it's unusable.

B

[macleodgrant]

so how does this rate compared to VSS3, Classicverb & DVR2
those are my go to verbs
oddly i've downloaded the demo but haven't had a chance to compare yet

[dj! (112dB)]

Originally Posted by bing81

On an Audio channel as the first plugin, yes, zero. But on an Auxillary channel as the only insert, it shows 8228 samples latency. Similarly, on an Audio channel if I put it after a TDM plugin, it adds 8228 samples. This on a HD system running PT8, Mac G5.

Anybody else get this as well? I don't own a HD system but Protools LE and HD (w/o the HD hardware, obviously) both show 0 latency on an aux track here...?

-- dj!

[DivineMusic]

im impressed with the reverb so far. cant wait to try the Eq...

[Studio Dweller]

I'm running PT HD 8.0 cs2 and I created a new session with one stereo aux with the Redline Reverb plug (demo v1.0). It's showing 10 samples of delay on my system. I also tried changing the Playback Buffer setting and the delay remained the same at 10 samples.

[Benmrx]

Don't forget that at least in PTLE 7.4, any plugin on an aux will show 10 samples of latency until you select an input for that aux. Notice on the pics how the only difference is that the "aux input" either has an assigned input, or doesn't. The pic where the aux input is NOT assigned is showing 10 samples of latency. The pic where the aux input is assigned to "buss 1+2", shows 0 samples.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by dj!

Correct. The EQ behavior can be selected for each band individually, with a separate (and independent) knob to adjust the overall amount of phase shift--anywhere from linear phase to anything but.

Without getting too technical, linear phase EQ has the least possible coloration and allows for very transparent adjustments--but comes at the price of inherent latency. The upcoming EQ makes it possible to dial in the amount of phase shift to taste, but because of the way it works internally the latency will remain constant for all settings. I wish it were different but these are technical limitations, not incompetence. At least I like to think so.

Peace,

-- dj!

Still curious to check it out. Depending on what the latency is like and how much CPU it takes it could still fit the bill.

[DivineMusic]

i use nuendo 4 and samp10. im gonna upgrade to samp 11 once i take care of a few things. its a free upgrade anyways.
latency compensation

[Mr. Dreq]

Originally Posted by dj!

Correct. The EQ behavior can be selected for each band individually, with a separate (and independent) knob to adjust the overall amount of phase shift--anywhere from linear phase to anything but.

Without getting too technical, linear phase EQ has the least possible coloration and allows for very transparent adjustments--but comes at the price of inherent latency. The upcoming EQ makes it possible to dial in the amount of phase shift to taste, but because of the way it works internally the latency will remain constant for all settings. I wish it were different but these are technical limitations, not incompetence. At least I like to think so.

I would prefer a version of the eq without the linear phase bands and 0 latency!

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Don't forget that at least in PTLE 7.4, any plugin on an aux will show 10 samples of latency until you select an input for that aux. Notice on the pics how the only difference is that the "aux input" either has an assigned input, or doesn't. The pic where the aux input is NOT assigned is showing 10 samples of latency. The pic where the aux input is assigned to "buss 1+2", shows 0 samples.

- good tip, thanks! thumbsup

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by YUGA

Aether seems to lack plate reverbs too. I tweaked the 480 - Fat Plate preset a little bit and got a very good result. But it's true that it's difficult to compare them objectively since they have different parameters.

The only small gripe so far is that I can't turn up the output gain. I had to insert a gain plugin to compare it against other reverb plugins.

Gain plugin? Don't DAWs have faders? Mine has an input trim, even on the effects returns. All this talk of Eqs and gain controls seems to be missing the point! Does the algo/convo sound good or not? That is what it's all about!

[Izzi]

Amen!!!

Big fan of your work Michaelthumbsup

[bing81]

Originally Posted by Studio Dweller

I'm running PT HD 8.0 cs2 and I created a new session with one stereo aux with the Redline Reverb plug (demo v1.0). It's showing 10 samples of delay on my system. I also tried changing the Playback Buffer setting and the delay remained the same at 10 samples.

Well yes, that's how it works. But as soon as you route in/out to it, the delay will jump to basically double the H/W Buffer size. If you run a larger buffer, you'll end up with large delays. The 8000+ sample delay I get is because of my 4096 sample H/W Buffer.

Ironically enough, this problem doesn't exist in LE systems. It's the whole TDM>RTAS scenario that makes for all these delays.

Well, as I understand it. Delays and delay compensation on Pro Tools HD is a bit of a black art!

B

[dj! (112dB)]

Originally Posted by bing81

Well yes, that's how it works. But as soon as you route in/out to it, the delay will jump to basically double the H/W Buffer size. If you run a larger buffer, you'll end up with large delays. The 8000+ sample delay I get is because of my 4096 sample H/W Buffer.

I feel a bit stupid asking this, but do I understand correctly that the latency problem you're experiencing lies with Protools and not Redline Reverb?

-- dj!

[pixelhead]

PT HD2 system I am only getting 11 samples of delay on a channel and on an aux.

[Ermz]

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

so how does this rate compared to VSS3, Classicverb & DVR2
those are my go to verbs
oddly i've downloaded the demo but haven't had a chance to compare yet

+1

What's everyone thinking? I don't have a chance to compare to the VSS3 or any outboard verbs off-hand.

[bing81]

Originally Posted by pixelhead

PT HD2 system I am only getting 11 samples of delay on a channel and on an aux.

On the aux, with i/o/send routing from tracks (or busses) with TDM plugs on them? Input on the aux routed from a bus?

If so, would be interested to know your Playback Engine setup (buffers etc.), delay comp etc. etc.

B

[bing81]

Originally Posted by dj!

I feel a bit stupid asking this, but do I understand correctly that the latency problem you're experiencing lies with Protools and not Redline Reverb?

-- dj!

As I understand it yes, it's completely dependant on the basic PT Playback setup (buffers etc.). Some RTAS plugs introduce more delay than others, but most of this delay comes from the TDM/RTAS interface.

But if you're a developer, check it with Digi, you might be able to enlighten us all!

B