Duende V3

[Heartfelt]

My PCIe works great in Vista.

Looking forward to V3.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by emkay

I don't think that users who are experiencing viable problems are exactly "bad rapping" the product! They just ask that the product they paid for works! Where's the "bad rap" there?

As far as your allegation regarding "praise" is concerned, I have read plenty of accolades showered upon manufacturers here at GS, including SSL!

Your third contention, or should I say assumption, is absolutely ridiculous! Are you actually intimating that "high end" gear used by those "content" users who are "busy", never experience problems with their "esoteric-exclusive" gear? I've read many a post regarding AWS 900, Daking, Pro Tools, etc., whose "content" users experience problems and or anomalies!

Allow me to draw my own conclusions concerning your status. I assume by the amount of time and wordspace you have spent here trivializing some user's problems, and the fact that you yourself are not being "quiet" ,indicates that you are not a "content" user. If you were "busy", you wouldn't be spending precious time insulting some members who are having some "real world" problems! It's great for you that your Duende is working, but you need to accept the fact that some ARE having problems!

I think you can rest assured, that SSL, as a "busy-content-quiet" credible manufacturer with a track record, is more than capable of taking care of these problems without your interference or intervention.

You certainly aren't helping the cause, nor are you being very constructive!
Your post caught my eye during a break ,but I now have to get back to work. I am "busy"and normally "quiet", but I'm sure I wouldn't be lauded as a "content" user by you! Oh well! Maybe one day!

peace for '09 and beyond

Thanks for the laugh! That sure was a waste of your time.

[STRANGY]

elambo, please re-read my earlier post....

"its very frustrating that us users currently experiencing problems due to acknowledged buggy drivers learn via an SSL rep posting on a public forum that we have to wait for the finishing touches to be made to a new reverb VST prior to release of the new drivers for Duende!?"

you should then realise I know that Jim has said it's running late in this very post. Really there are 2 annoying issues here:

1. a new reverb vst seems to be largely responsible for holding up the release of new much needed fixes/drivers...

2. not being informed through the official tech support system as a customer that there is a delay, rather I'm fobbed off and find out through a unrelated internet forum as a sales pitch to keep prospective customers keen...


If anyone cares, more specifically:

1) I have already emailed SSL to state that im not sure i want v3 drivers, I would rather a fix to v2xx without a major overhaul resulting in a different product to what I purchased... having just spent £400 on something that barely works, I am not yet intending to increase the channel count in order to appreciate all of v3's claimed benefits... to be honest I use this purely for mixing so I'm not at all bothered by the improved latencies... I bought this external DSP card expecting 32 channels with minimal CPU hit. logically in my setup until i can afford/choose 64 channels I would appear beta off with a v2xx fix..

2) I've been in contact with SSL re: problems for over 4 weeks now yet learn more on a forum? why not officially notify that the drivers are two weeks late (SSL's website still says 1st of June) - I have not yet had a reply to my last email a week ago... why should I have to take 'Jim @ SSL's word on a forum I don't frequent (yes i know it's legit) that v3 is about 2 weeks late? what reassuarnce is there, this date may move back again while everyday my Duende gathers dust...it's come down £25 since i bought it, my no quibbles return period has now expried... and to add insult to injury - sounds like the Beta drivers are running bloody marvelous at SSL HQ... why not let us have them, from my exoerince the released drivers are effectively still beta...i.e. sounds like in my brief experince that v2 was never fully functional... no offence to Jim in sales, but the info regarding the delay has reached me in order to keep interest in a new product alive and kicking... a courtesy email from tech can go a long long way...

elambo - understand that I'm waiting for a fix to problems - having heard how nice the unit can be in demo mode I started mixing down a project using these plugs... I can;t wait much longer for a fix ... I can tell you that myself and most of the people having problems would rather be mixing down right now of course it's good, of course it can work for some...but people out there are experiencing fundamental problems with Duende... which really ought not to occur in a commercial, mature device!

[elambo]

Originally Posted by STRANGY

elambo, please re-read my earlier post....

"its very frustrating that us users currently experiencing problems due to acknowledged buggy drivers learn via an SSL rep posting on a public forum that we have to wait for the finishing touches to be made to a new reverb VST prior to release of the new drivers for Duende!?"

you should then realise I know that Jim has said it's running late in this very post. Really there are 2 annoying issues here:

1. a new reverb vst seems to be largely responsible for holding up the release of new much needed fixes/drivers...

2. not being informed through the official tech support system as a customer that there is a delay, rather I'm fobbed off and find out through a unrelated internet forum as a sales pitch to keep prospective customers keen...
[COLOR=Gray]

I understand completely, and I agree -- they should have responded to you personally about the release date. I was simply mentioning Jim's latest update in case you'd missed it.

I don't believe it has been confirmed, and I wouldn't expect it to be, but it seems quite possible that X-Verb is holding up V3 and keeping people from an update which may fix their issue(s). If that turned out to be the case, and I was in a real need of V3, I'd be a bit pissed off.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by STRANGY

people out there are experiencing fundamental problems with Duende... which really ought not to occur in a commercial, mature device!

(I just saw this)

I haven't denied the existence of any problems - not ever - but I have to say that I know of very few software products which are 100% bug free. OS 10.5.7, for instance, has quite a few. Windows is riddled with them. These are mature companies who should have their sh!t together by now, but they don't. Yes, they're exponentially more complex, but even very basic OS operations can fail.

For THE classic example, look at the Neve Capricorn. Up to $800k to buy one, now relatively worthless. Some have even been decommissioned already. THAT would hurt.

This doesn't excuse SSL by any means, but it does help show that "perfect" products are quite rare.

[Football]

What the heck is the story with tracking latency? Is this a secret or something?

[DCommand]

Just the driver so my system will work better for me

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Football

What the heck is the story with tracking latency? Is this a secret or something?

There IS latency - so it's best not to try to use it during tracking. When mixing, that delay should be compensated for by your DAW.

[Football]

Originally Posted by elambo

There IS latency - so it's best not to try to use it during tracking.

Yes, and as we all know there also is latency even without Duende plugs in a session but we still track that way of course. If it's not that much more latency added I at least will know that is possible to track through it once in a while. I want to know one way or the other for sure, EXACTLY WHAT IS THE ADDED LATENCY?

Jim, can you please let me know specifically what latency this adds when a channel strip is inserted?

For instance, at a buffer size of 32 what can I expect for additional latency. Double the buffer size or something?

Very simple question that I'd love answered. I'm surprised this information isn't readily available as I've seen mention of lower latencies but absolutely no specifics.


Come on Jim, give up the goods please

[Hide]

Originally Posted by JB872

Have you not had any problems with the Duende?

NEVER, for me.

My previous system is PowerMac G5 (dual 2.5) with au plugs,
and my current sytem is Laptop PC (core2duo) with vst plugs....

Maybe I'm really lucky guy. I always use Duende and very stable.

[DSpec1]

Originally Posted by Football

Yes, and as we all know there also is latency even without Duende plugs in a session but we still track that way of course. If it's not that much more latency added I at least will know that is possible to track through it once in a while. I want to know one way or the other for sure, EXACTLY WHAT IS THE ADDED LATENCY?

Jim, can you please let me know specifically what latency this adds when a channel strip is inserted?

For instance, at a buffer size of 32 what can I expect for additional latency. Double the buffer size or something?

Very simple question that I'd love answered. I'm surprised this information isn't readily available as I've seen mention of lower latencies but absolutely no specifics.


Come on Jim, give up the goods please

After using Duende Mini for a year, and during which I experienced both joy and sadness related to stability, I can attest that this is not a tracking-friendly system. Nor was it meant to be. My guess is that V3 won't be tracking-happy either.

I am not sure what the latency is on my Mac Pro and Macbook Pro with V2, but tracking through it is impossible.

[Whitecat]

Originally Posted by DSpec1

After using Duende Mini for a year, and during which I experienced both joy and sadness related to stability, I can attest that this is not a tracking-friendly system. Nor was it meant to be. My guess is that V3 won't be tracking-happy either.

I am not sure what the latency is on my Mac Pro and Macbook Pro with V2, but tracking through it is impossible.

Systems like these were never designed nor intended to be tracking solutions. Always save 'em for the mix.

[eddierodriguez]

Originally Posted by Hide

NEVER, for me.

what about 96khz?

[Hide]

Originally Posted by eddierodriguez

what about 96khz?

I don't use 96khz.... that's why I don't get problem?

[DSpec1]

Originally Posted by terminal3

Systems like these were never designed nor intended to be tracking solutions. Always save 'em for the mix.

Precisely. Which is why I have the Mynx Tracking Bundle (with an additional 9000 EQ)...

[eddierodriguez]

Originally Posted by Hide

I don't use 96khz.... that's why I don't get problem?

i bet ;-D

it´s like driving a ferrari in the city with gear 1 and 2 only, without knowing that it has problems from gear 3 to 7...

would you talk about that car to be working fine? as long as you don´t need to drive the highway, sure...

[Hide]

Originally Posted by eddierodriguez

it´s like driving a ferrari in the city with gear 1 and 2 only, without knowing that it has problems from gear 3 to 7...

HAHAHAHA
I think it is a bit different. But nice describing!

I always use 24Bit/44.1kHz.
Because I don't need to record over 20kHz.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by eddierodriguez

it´s like driving a ferrari in the city with gear 1 and 2 only, without knowing that it has problems from gear 3 to 7...

A) "potential" problems - some are working fine at 96K

B) most people stay in the city where the top gear is never necessary

C) if you need the top gear, don't buy a Ferrari

[Scarlatino]

On June, 11th. Do rates, guys !
! I think, delay V.3 will be about one month. If it is no more.
I the pessimist.
I am tired to search for the decision and simply I wait. X-EQ and BUS-Comp do not work-countdown problem. OK.
Now in some projects Cubase 5 message "Duende not detected" began to appear. If with V.3 the situation will not change, I shall sell.
All the resulted ways to force to work the device correctly have not helped... Alas...

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Scarlatino

I think, delay V.3 will be about one month. If it is no more.

Maybe.

Just a guess, or have you heard something?

[SCDBM]

Jim said 2 weeks, so patiently waiting till the 14th.......

[Jim@SSL]

Latency on the Channel Strip as an example = (audio buffer in samples X2) + 184 samples IIRC

However, I have no idea why you would track through plug-ins. Mix with them yes, but track through them? That's just restricting your options. Remember the mantra "record to tape as clean as possible"?

We released a new beta of V3 yesterday, and I am running this at the LIMS show in London this week come down and say "hi" if you're not hampered by the Tube strike...

[Football]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

Latency on the Channel Strip as an example = (audio buffer in samples X2) + 184 samples IIRC

However, I have no idea why you would track through plug-ins. Mix with them yes, but track through them? That's just restricting your options. Remember the mantra "record to tape as clean as possible"?

We released a new beta of V3 yesterday, and I am running this at the LIMS show in London this week come down and say "hi" if you're not hampered by the Tube strike...

Ah finally, latency details. "Tracking" with plugs. Song is almost done vocalist comes back in to overdub some vocals. Using plugs all over the place, along with compression/eq on vocal tracks and want the same settings to do some overdubs.

All of a sudden I'd have to change everything on those tracks Duende is on so we can do the overdubs? Meaning, bypass it and run another native compressor/EQ with similar settings? Seems awful goofy since I never do that with native plugs. I am not sure why it's hard for anyone to understand what and why I would be tracking a vocal with some additional compression from a plug in. We are allowed to use hardware compression only while tracking???

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT ALTERING THE ORIGINAL SOUND "TO TAPE", I'm talking about say inserting a Duende plug (like compression) on a lead vocal.

You mean to tell me know one here is inserting plugs when tracking things? I am not sure how to more clearly spell out what I'm hoping Duende might be capable of. My English may be sucking more than I thought.

I am creating things as I go along in a song and doing whatever I feel is best. Maybe it could be squashing the crap out of the vocal with a piece of hardware... maybe it's just a touch of hardware compression while tracking and I don't want to commit anymore so I'll do some additional with a snazzy Duende comp. That doesn't seem to kooky to me.

So, final word, Duende can't do what I'm describing in a DAW like Logic 8 for instance, is that correct? If it can't, it can't but I was sure hoping it would. It also would mean SSL still hasn't gotten any of my money which they surely would have by now.

[guru-bug]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

We released a new beta of V3 yesterday, and I am running this at the LIMS show in London this week come down and say "hi" if you're not hampered by the Tube strike...

This is like showing the injection needle to the junkie, saying: "I have what you need, but you can´t get it ... just wait another 2 weeks, i´ll get cleaner better stuff. You don´t need that now, because i always know what´s good for you."

Can´t understand why not releasing a beta-download for users which have problems or want to try out the new version. Every Software on this planet is today BETA, if you write that B on the release number or not ;-) Best way to find the bug´s is to release a Beta as RC and let the customers find all the errors. Microsoft, Steinberg and a lot of other Companys practice this successful since years

But if the user has the option, to try the last stable and a new beta, there is no problem. Everyone can try & decide himself if the beta pre-release works better (and maybe fixes some problems), or if he want to stay with the old version. This is the best way to get a stable version.

But i know, there are a million fixed rules in big companys, which must be good, because they worked good for the last 20 years ........ This is the fall of so much big companies ... but also a chance for new flexible people, knowing there are other ways ... ... Ableton, Cockos ... great products, focus on the user and his wishes ... not the profit. For such products, customers are happy to pay (fair) money.

This is nothing against SSL. I like the products and my duende works fine since the first day.

Greets,
Guru-Bug

[Daniel Flores]

Jim!
Where is it? I'm Mixing a huge rock album here and I have been working slowly and sync with the release so I can use your new stuff on the record...
How much more do we have to wait?

PROUD OWNER OF MINI 32 channels (btw, it make waves ssl4000 sound like Steinberger, late 90's compressor LOL)

Daniel

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Football

You mean to tell me know one here is inserting plugs when tracking things?

Uhhh... No. I'd never track with plugins unless those plugins are TDM. Even then, I avoid them.

[Football]

Originally Posted by elambo

Uhhh... No. I'd never track with plugins unless those plugins are TDM. Even then, I avoid them.

Like that is really such a crazy idea? I think there are plenty of people doing what I'm doing and getting great results and vice versa. More than one "right" way to skin a cat.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Football

Like that is really such a crazy idea? I think there are plenty of people doing what I'm doing and getting great results and vice versa. More than one "right" way to skin a cat.

Tracking through a Duende would be a crazy idea, yes. No one is doing it with great results. Tracking through a plugin with low latency (like TDM), on the other hand, could be done. And this is exactly what I just said. Duende - the plugin you've been asking about, and the topic of this thread - is not what you want for this purpose, and no amount of asking SSL will get it there. It sounds like you may want a hardware equivalent, or the Waves SSL TDM, which isn't as good but might serve your purpose for tracking.

[Scarlatino]

So, Jim, when? We Understand, that to you it is difficult. And to whom it is now easy?

[Football]

Originally Posted by elambo

Tracking through a Duende would be a crazy idea, yes. No one is doing it with great results. Tracking through a plugin with low latency (like TDM), on the other hand, could be done. And this is exactly what I just said. Duende - the plugin you've been asking about, and the topic of this thread - is not what you want for this purpose, and no amount of asking SSL will get it there. It sounds like you may want a hardware equivalent, or the Waves SSL TDM, which isn't as good but might serve your purpose for tracking.

I understand Duende is the topic of this thread, I am the thread starter.

I don't own PT HD to have the option of using Waves SSL TDM (I use Logic 8), nor do I need a TDM plug to do what I am asking. I do it when needed with native plugs. I was simply hoping this upcoming version of Duende would be capable of tracking with low enough latency to make it at least possible.