Duende V3

[b0ssa]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

Yeah, the squeaky wheel gets the grease... but you shouldn't have to throw a fit or beg to get some grief compensation. Unfortunately, the bigger the company, the bigger the liability due to admission of faulty product... Toyota, anyone?

Of course, no one was ever killed by a runaway Duende, but the idea is the same, just to a much lesser extent. The bottom-line is as cliched as a county song: you pays your money and you takes your chances. I try to get the best deals to offset loss.

You vote for form, function, quality, value and service with your dollars. You also support the company and pay for future development... both for you and the people that steal. DSP can keep the theft down, but with reliability strikes as well as the inherent, it's a hard sell.

Rambling back to the big co. thing: I have internet, landline and TV with the same cable company. They are essentially a monopoly, as the alternatives are really not as good across all three services in this area. Well, they keep raising their prices disproportionately to service.

To make a really long story shorter, I had lots of problems in the transition to HD and with internet reliability before that. I'd call and complain, ask for some remedy and get a few dollars credit for the problem... hardly worth the effort, but it was the principle.

I was actually helping them troubleshoot problems on my node, and learned quite a bit. One day when I called with a problem, they really blew me off, made me mad and I threatened to quit. I was instantly connected to the secret and magical "retention dept."

I expect to get a few bucks off as usual, but this guy was like: "I can give you 25% off for a year." I was shocked and silent and he came back with: "okay, how about 50%?" I muttered a few "uh's" in disbelief and he goes: "50% plus free HBO and Showtime?"

Who knows what I might have got had I muttered some more, but I said okay and the call was over. The blissful year of the $100 cable bill came and went. Mine was frozen, too... so, with the increases, it blossomed up to well over $200 at the end, and continues to climb.

Would this work again if I threw another fit? I dunno... I doubt I could fake one. Lastly, they have a feature where incoming calls show up on the TV screen. It's been totally unreliable, but they say that part is free, so they don't support it... I'll stop there, but you get the idea.

How many months has it been now since V3.1 was released? It's pitiful... I was offered the refund but I would then have to pay for shipping plus the 85 Pounds to clear my card. And this is to correct an issue that should have been fixed before the release of the software. But then again every software company I know of hides behind a EULA at the time of installation. And that's meant to protect them from any responsibility.
I don't know any other industry but the software one that hides behind EULA's. This industry needs a world wide shake-up.

There are a number of people claiming that V3.1 is working perfectly for them and I find that hard to believe. It's either that they are only using the two basic plug-ins or that they just haven't noticed the issues. There are too many documented issues otherwise.

[Jim@SSL]

@Bossa - I have PM'ed you about the refund situation. The offer still stands.

[b0ssa]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

@Bossa - I have PM'ed you about the refund situation. The offer still stands.

Hi Jim, I appreciate your efforts on my behalf in this matter but I cannot justify paying UKP85 for clearing the X-Verb from my card plus shipping both ways. That would end up costing me around AUD180-200 all up. It's a pity the card cannot unload the license like a powercore and upload it to SSL... that would be much simpler.

Unless something has changed and I have missed some information I am a bit confused as to how I should proceed at this time. I couldn't give a glowing advertisement on eBay unless I was 100% confident that the system worked (and then I wouldn't want to sell it anyway) so I can't really sell it as a system 3.1 card with the x-Verb.

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by b0ssa

Hi Jim...

He PM'd you. Why not resolve that with him by PM?

[b0ssa]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

He PM'd you. Why not resolve that with him by PM?

That was yesterday... and I thought about that too. Thanks for your concern.

[Patric Noonan]

"Bossa"There are a number of people claiming that V3.1 is working perfectly for them and I find that hard to believe. It's either that they are only using the two basic plug-ins or that they just haven't noticed the issues. There are too many documented issues otherwise.

I know its hard to believe, but its all good on this end unless i put duende plugs on a send or try to save them as a group preset in ableton. Then we crashes plus.

I have about 70% of the plugs and use them extensively, with automation pushing them to their limits!

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by b0ssa

How many months has it been now since V3.1 was released? It's pitiful... I was offered the refund but I would then have to pay for shipping plus the 85 Pounds to clear my card. And this is to correct an issue that should have been fixed before the release of the software. But then again every software company I know of hides behind a EULA at the time of installation. And that's meant to protect them from any responsibility.
I don't know any other industry but the software one that hides behind EULA's. This industry needs a world wide shake-up.

There are a number of people claiming that V3.1 is working perfectly for them and I find that hard to believe. It's either that they are only using the two basic plug-ins or that they just haven't noticed the issues. There are too many documented issues otherwise.

A refund that you have to pay for ain't no refund in my book, especially when it comes off as some sort of faux-magnanimous private favor. I've acquired several thousand dollars worth of XLogic hardware over the last year.

Part of the reason I went exclusively with hardware was because these Duende problems. I hope my investment will be worthwhile. So far, I haven't experienced problems, but I'm kind of dormant production-wise, until I get my studio reconfigured.

Anyway, I appreciate your frustration and I'm glad you made this public.

I hope it works out in the end... good luck b0ssa!

[b0ssa]

It seems I jumped the gun a bit as the refund offer had changed and I somehow missed the details. I was pretty upset yesterday, and the fact that my brother was having a cancer operatin didn't help either. I apologize to anyone I may have offended.

I have accepted Jim's offer and am now completely satisfied.

Thanks Jim and SSL.

[anguswoodhead]

Originally Posted by b0ssa

I have accepted Jim's offer and am now completely satisfied.

Thanks Jim and SSL.

Glad to hear it.

[Jeezo]

glad for you , hope everything will be ok with your brother

in person , i trust ssl , they got my money , the will , always tryin to help me (commercial or support request) and a great philosophy in designing new products !!

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by b0ssa

It seems I jumped the gun a bit as the refund offer had changed and I somehow missed the details. I was pretty upset yesterday, and the fact that my brother was having a cancer operatin didn't help either. I apologize to anyone I may have offended.

I have accepted Jim's offer and am now completely satisfied.

Thanks Jim and SSL.

Since you've shared to this point, can you at least hint at how the deal was sweetened, or are you sworn to secrecy?

Either way, I'm glad it worked out, and best wishes for your brother's situation.

[Jim@SSL]

Bossa had paid for additional licenses that he was unable to use. There seemed to be some system-specific issue that we were unable to resolve, despite his best efforts with our support team within our support system. We have not been able to replicate some of these issues in-house.

As once a plug-in is authorised under V3 we have no way of wiping it from the unit without a factory reset the unit would have to be returned to us and re-set in order to make a "return" of the purchased goods.

I might add that we belive that the next software update may have solved his issue, but without testing on his particular system we have no way to confirm this.

We have found a solution allowing him to roll back to V2 if he desires and a compromise about his additional purchased plug-ins.

[b0ssa]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

Since you've shared to this point, can you at least hint at how the deal was sweetened, or are you sworn to secrecy?

Either way, I'm glad it worked out, and best wishes for your brother's situation.

Thanks for your good will.

[b0ssa]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

Bossa had paid for additional licenses that he was unable to use. There seemed to be some system-specific issue that we were unable to resolve, despite his best efforts with our support team within our support system. We have not been able to replicate some of these issues in-house.

As once a plug-in is authorised under V3 we have no way of wiping it from the unit without a factory reset the unit would have to be returned to us and re-set in order to make a "return" of the purchased goods.

I might add that we belive that the next software update may have solved his issue, but without testing on his particular system we have no way to confirm this.

We have found a solution allowing him to roll back to V2 if he desires and a compromise about his additional purchased plug-ins.

Thanks Jim.

[amusic]

Thanks Jim for personally support here.

Want to show my personally situation with Duende V3.1

Mac Pro 2.66 Quad, Snowleo, Logic 9.1, Duende pcie
All works very well, especially xverb is beauty without problems.
With vocalstrip which works also very well there is sometimes a problem, the Gui is frozen but plug is still working. In this case you can´t make edits because you don´t know where the parameters are yet.Have to store the setting and reload the plug. It´s the only hard issue in my work with Duende.

When reloading a projekt sometimes it comes an allert "Bus compressor is not available" It´s not reproduceable for me, only sometimes? Quit logic an reload may fix it sometimes. But most the time I had to unplug the Buscomp and reload it in the insert. The settings are lost in this case.

Can´t tell something about xcomp, still don´t use it.

I want to tell that it´s a good decision from ssl to switch to hybrid system. Can drive 64 channels without any cpu problems. Think UAD and Poco will do that also in next time. Best case in future would be a dual system with switch for native and dsp-based.
greets from Austria

[amusic]

@Jim
Have still bought the 64-channel upgrade and want to go to 128 channels.
But in store I have to pay equal as from 32channel.
There is no offer from 64 to 128.
Can´t believe that??

[gollumsluvslave]

There are a number of people claiming that V3.1 is working perfectly for them and I find that hard to believe. It's either that they are only using the two basic plug-ins or that they just haven't noticed the issues. There are too many documented issues otherwise.

Sorry b0ssa, but the 'YOUR duende on YOUR system' thing cuts both ways. Someone mentioned earlier that the people that haven't had any issues feel like they are almost having to apologise for the fact they have a working system.

I've been using all 32 instances of my Duende on some complex mixes with no problems. No crashes, no lockups, no missing or lost settings.

The only thing I can say that may give some insight is that I don't use X-Comp that much - only maybe a couple of instances, the channel strip / drumstrip usually gives me what I need. I do use X-EQ a fair bit though, and haven't noticed anything awry.

[Football]

I experience these same two problems like you. Only Difference is I'm on eight core 2.8 Mac Pro.

Originally Posted by amusic

Mac Pro 2.66 Quad, Snowleo, Logic 9.1, Duende pcie
All works very well, especially xverb is beauty without problems.
With vocalstrip which works also very well there is sometimes a problem, the Gui is frozen but plug is still working. In this case you can´t make edits because you don´t know where the parameters are yet.Have to store the setting and reload the plug. It´s the only hard issue in my work with Duende.

When reloading a projekt sometimes it comes an allert "Bus compressor is not available" It´s not reproduceable for me, only sometimes? Quit logic an reload may fix it sometimes. But most the time I had to unplug the Buscomp and reload it in the insert. The settings are lost in this case.

Can´t tell something about xcomp, still don´t use it.

I want to tell that it´s a good decision from ssl to switch to hybrid system. Can drive 64 channels without any cpu problems. Think UAD and Poco will do that also in next time. Best case in future would be a dual system with switch for native and dsp-based.
greets from Austria

[Football]

Originally Posted by gollumsluvslave

Sorry b0ssa, but the 'YOUR duende on YOUR system' thing cuts both ways. Someone mentioned earlier that the people that haven't had any issues feel like they are almost having to apologise for the fact they have a working system.

I've been using all 32 instances of my Duende on some complex mixes with no problems. No crashes, no lockups, no missing or lost settings.

The only thing I can say that may give some insight is that I don't use X-Comp that much - only maybe a couple of instances, the channel strip / drumstrip usually gives me what I need. I do use X-EQ a fair bit though, and haven't noticed anything awry.

I'm wondering if you ever do parallel compression with Drumstrip? There was a known bug, wondering if it got fixed. Used to cause major phase problems in Logic.

[Jim@SSL]

Originally Posted by amusic

@Jim
Have still bought the 64-channel upgrade and want to go to 128 channels.
But in store I have to pay equal as from 32channel.
There is no offer from 64 to 128.
Can´t believe that??

if you make a request in our support FAqs the team will issue you with a discount voucher to expand to 128 channels at the right price :-)

[gollumsluvslave]

I'm wondering if you ever do parallel compression with Drumstrip? There was a known bug, wondering if it got fixed. Used to cause major phase problems in Logic. I'm wondering if you ever do parallel compression with Drumstrip? There was a known bug, wondering if it got fixed. Used to cause major phase problems in Logic.
I'm wondering if you ever do parallel compression with Drumstrip? There was a known bug, wondering if it got fixed. Used to cause major phase problems in Logic.

No phase problems in Nuendo or Reaper for me, one of the best things about drumstrip is the parallel options. The 'mix' setting on the drumstrip LMC is flawless on my setup.

[rhythminmind]

Jim,
Out of curiosity will the next release offer a 64bit driver? It's not an urgent need in my setup but the Duende is now the only audio peripheral/software I currently own thats not 64bit supported (TC & Motu hadrware, Automap, OS & Daw all ready) . I wouldn't mind being able to get past the 3gig of ram limit.
But this is of coarse secondary to fully functional plugins.

[elambo]

As much as I want all my plugin manufacturers to dive into 64-bit, I sure hope SSL doesn't try to shift 64 into this new update. The 32-bit version has enough problems without also trying to run 64-bit. Fix the tires before installing the bigger engine.

[ProducerBoy]

As someone who has checked in every 6 months or so over the last 3 years with interest in the Duende, I'm shocked that it's still so unstable for so many people.
I've stayed away from the Duende because the driver issues. Now the code "has been written from the ground up," and almost a year into it people are still waiting for fixes?
Maybe I'll check in again in 6 months...

[elambo]

Originally Posted by ProducerBoy

Maybe I'll check in again in 6 months...

See ya then - I'm sure we'll still be here.

[Crizdee]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

Well, I guess I'm not going to be the most popular person around here with the following post, but I think I should make our position clear.

As I have previously posted, we have been testing a Release Candidate beta version of new Duende software. It makes some significant improvements over V3.1 in terms of performance on most systems. However it does not satisfactorily address some of the outstanding bugs that some users are experiencing. As such, I have decided to pull this release and set all available development resources into solving some of the "showstoppers" that people have posted here. Realistically speaking this means we won't have a new software release for Duende until May/June.


I'm ready to take the flak... but please consider my openness over this matter (and the nearly 50 pages in this thread) and take it as it is meant - an acknowledgement of what we currently have on the table is not up to the high standards that SSL sets for itself and that the whole (now extended) team is focussed on solving as many of the outstanding issues as is possible.

Hi Jim,

Been watching this thread and thought it time to make my comments and views known. Here's the problems i'm having and my take on the whole situation...


1. Control surface compatibility… when returning to plugin that has been set already, the plugin does not send its current parameter position to the control surface!! So the control surface is showing default parameter positions and not the actual positions of the plugin. This causes problems when you want to tweak settings!! You touch the control surface rotary encoder and the settings go to default??

2. when saving presets using the pro tools presets menu! Recalling presets and the plugin parameters do not change to reflect the new settings!! Adjusting the preset that has been recalled its difficult and can cause randon settings!!

3. The BIGGY!! Duende will crash pro tools. Some days as many as 7 crashes!! All caused by Duende and the crash logs confirm this. Mostly when closing one session and opening another that have SSL plugs inserted. But also some session will just randomly crash? the more plugins the more it seems to crash. Again all crash log indicate Duende.

I can live with 1 and 2 but I can’t run a professional studio and have 7 crashes a day!! All of which mean a total re-boot of the system stopping work for 10-15 minutes each time. That’s too much downtime and makes me look like an amateur studio. Also each crash… dumps my root settings folder for my plugins!!

I would expect a few bug and crashes from a small company with a new product, but SSL? The World leaders in Digital mixing?? If a Duality was crashing 7 times a day, what would you do for the client? What would you say?

Now here’s my main problem! I never had so many crashes till I authorised the 64 channel option and added x-verb and x-comp, because of this I have incorporated Duende plugins in several big projects I started before adding these options. Now I’m getting too many crashes to work efficiently and keep my clients happy, so what can I do? Go back and remix 2 whole albums without Duende or carry on suffering this problem and losing about an hour a day in down time.

Pro Tools HD6 accel + Contrl 24 + hundreds of plugins = never crashes
UAD-2 + 30-40 plugs a session = never crashes
Duende PCIe = constant crashing

2006 when Duende was launched! 4 years later it’s still not ready for prime time use?? Seriously!! It should be taken off the market till its working?

So now you have offices over the pond! Well how about a trip up the Interstate 5 to Scotts Valley and ask the Putnams how they make their PCIe card and plugins work without constant crashes.

Here’s the good part the plugins are phenomenal, x-verb and x-comp rock and the channel strip I prefer over the competition.

Leopard 10.5.6
pro tools 8.0.1

Regards, Chris Daniels

[hankloose]

Hi!

I bought the DUENDE 2006 I have NEVER had any problems with it.

Works flawless alongside with two UAD 2 card running xp 32 bit
and CUBASE. I also work with the C 200 and 4000 G+ and the results
i get with DUENDE +alphalink and x desk is as good as the hardware
big consoles. Thanks SSL for making my work a real joyful moment.
The only thing I wish for is a controlsurface that looks like the channel
strip. I would pay 700 pounds for such a piece of hardware!!

Best Regards

[Jack Cooke]

Hi Jim

I've had the Duende for about a year and a half now and I love the sound of the thing. The stability issues are just such a shame though and I really hope that you guys get this one licked really soon. I have a UAD-2 card also and it's rock solid when it comes to software stability, which makes all the difference.

I'm running on Duende V2 at the moment as V3 was a total disaster for me on OSX 10.5 and Logic 8 /9. For the most part it's useable, I only use the Channel Strip, the Bus Comp and occasionally the Drumstrip. The biggest problem I am having seems to be with the GUI crashing Logic. I cannot use screensets at all for this reason which is one of the most useful functions in Logic for me. I tend to have different screensets for different instrument groups so I can flick between screensets straight to the open plugins and make adjustments nice and quickly. This is something I just can't do now with the Duende because if I leave a Duende plugin open on a screenset and then change screenset, Logic will crash. So I have to close each SSL plugin before changing screenset and then open them all up again on the screenset I've changed to. It's a real frustration for me and slows down my workflow considerably.

I have contacted SSL about this issue before and was told that it is known about. In any case I just wanted to point it out to you here so it can be taken into consideration while you guys are fine tuning the latest Duende update. I really hope you nail it this time. Such a potentially great product deserves to have the work and resources put into it to make it reliable for it's users. UAD have definitely managed to do this and there's no reason SSL can't. It needs to happen soon though because I think that reputations really are at stake here. It's been a long time now since the Duende's release and there have been reliability issues from the start. I wish you the very best of luck with it all... fingers are crossed.

Jack Cooke

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Crizdee

1. Control surface compatibility… when returning to plugin that has been set already, the plugin does not send its current parameter position to the control surface!! So the control surface is showing default parameter positions and not the actual positions of the plugin. This causes problems when you want to tweak settings!! You touch the control surface rotary encoder and the settings go to default??

2. when saving presets using the pro tools presets menu! Recalling presets and the plugin parameters do not change to reflect the new settings!! Adjusting the preset that has been recalled its difficult and can cause randon settings!!

3. The BIGGY!! Duende will crash pro tools. Some days as many as 7 crashes!! All caused by Duende and the crash logs confirm this. Mostly when closing one session and opening another that have SSL plugs inserted. But also some session will just randomly crash? the more plugins the more it seems to crash. Again all crash log indicate Duende.

1) You should mention the DAW and control surface. I myself am not having this issue and haven't heard much about it.

2) Which plugins? Most Duende plugins have been designed so that presets are loaded and saved with the corresponding buttons at the lower left corner.

3) This is a problem for a lot of people, and was for me, but has more or less passed. In our case, the crash logs were always reporting Duende as the culprit but it was actually another FW device on the same FW bus (a video decoder) conflicting with Duende. Remove the other box, the crashes stop.

Another thing that can happen is that Duende, or the DAW, won't tell Duende hardware to clear out prior DSP usage upon closing a session, and if the DAW crashes it DEFINITELY won't clear out the DSPs. So next time you go to open a session with a lot of Duende plugins it crashes because the DSPs fill up, even if you're technically under your limit. There isn't enough room for the old and the new together.

The fix for that is simple: with your DAW closed, turn Duende off, then back on, then reopen the session.

We've been through everything with Duende and I think we've found about all of the available workarounds. It's a shame that that is the case, but there seems to be nothing else we can do (did someone just whisper "UAD...?")

If you really want help you'll have to start listing system specs. Otherwise, you're just blowing off some steam. Which is OK, too -- we've all had to do it.

[Doc No]

Dear SSL, go native, pleeeease. Or hire someone who knows to code driver.