Duende V3

[SWAN808]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

We had scheduled the release of V3 for the end of May, but unfortunately are running about 2 weeks behind. The software has been in beta for 3 weeks and appears to be running very very well, and we are putting the final touches to X-Verb before we put it out.

Jim will V3 be able to do offline processing like my UAD? This is one thing holding me back from going Duende.

[JB872]

Originally Posted by Jim@SSL

We had scheduled the release of V3 for the end of May, but unfortunately are running about 2 weeks behind. The software has been in beta for 3 weeks and appears to be running very very well, and we are putting the final touches to X-Verb before we put it out.

In the future, I hope SSL will consider solving the current problems with the Duende before releasing a new product (X-Verb). We've been a patient bunch, and the last thing I want to do is buy a new product if what I have doesn't work properly.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by JB872

In the future, I hope SSL will consider solving the current problems with the Duende before releasing a new product (X-Verb). We've been a patient bunch, and the last thing I want to do is buy a new product if what I have doesn't work properly.

What particular problems are you having with Duende?

[JB872]

Originally Posted by elambo

What particular problems are you having with Duende?

If I use a mono channelstrip on a buss in Sonar and close the project and re-open it, the plugin will act as a stereo instance causing a phasey mess. The fix for this is to delete the plugin and re-insert it on the buss or only use stereo instances of the plug which limits me to 16 instances. When mixing large projects, this becomes time consuming.

[nate855]

So will it be about 2 weeks from today, May 2 before the update comes out?

[elambo]

Originally Posted by JB872

If I use a mono channelstrip on a buss in Sonar and close the project and re-open it, the plugin will act as a stereo instance causing a phasey mess. The fix for this is to delete the plugin and re-insert it on the buss or only use stereo instances of the plug which limits me to 16 instances. When mixing large projects, this becomes time consuming.

So Sonar is reopening the channel as stereo. I don't see how Duende could tell Sonar to create a stereo track when it began as mono. You feel this is SSL's error?

Even if the channel is actually mono, but phasey, that's an issue of Sonar's internal routing, is it not?

[STRANGY]

I feel the need to add to this thread since I've been told by SSL my experiences are the exception... First up, importantly the card sounds excellent; the plug ins are/were when working great so credit to SSL for the Duende (hence my persistence to get my probelms sorted). However, I bought my Duende PCIe 1 month ago and I'm currently stuck with just one fully functional plug in - the Channel Strip... More specifically:

- the Bus Compressor now appears to have expired (bundled plug in?!?)
- the X-eq will not register despite me using the correct (verified by SSL) code ('validation code was incorrect' message)
- upon launching the 16th/32nd instance of any SSL plug in, the Duende will crash the host without any warning / chance for back-up etc losing any unsaved files
- attempting to use the duende plugins in my host with certain buffer sizes causes not only a host crash but an instant system reboot!
- I've also experienced various glitches using the bus comp whereby a huge burst of (extreme level) digital noise (measuring approx 80dB on my master) is followed by a complete mute of audio on that channel until the plugin is removed.

I've been in contact with SSL numerous times for each of the above and as helpful, prompt and courteous as the support team have been, my last response was that my best bet is to wait for v3 drivers which should sort out these problems... now aside from the fact the release for v3 is late, rendering my current Duende rather unusable and that v2xx ought to be mature and stable, I'm not entirely sure I want to sacrifice any cpu power for Duende until I want/need/can afford to upgrade to 64 channels+. This goes slighlty against the reason for buiying the card in the first place.

Am I the most unlucky Duende user - experiencing all these bugs at the same time on the same card?? Please can anyone with the following specs confirm a fully functional Duende PCIe card or share any solutions for the above:

PC with Windows XP service pack 2, Quad 6600 CPU, intel P35 chip with 2gb of RAM
card tested on various hosts including Reaper, Cubase, Ableton etc
1 Focusrite Saffire LE Audio card
no other DSP cards

Thanks

[JB872]

Originally Posted by elambo

So Sonar is reopening the channel as stereo. I don't see how Duende could tell Sonar to create a stereo track when it began as mono. You feel this is SSL's error?

Even if the channel is actually mono, but phasey, that's an issue of Sonar's internal routing, is it not?

According to SSL support, it's a Duende problem and they're trying to fix it in V3. Besides, this problem doesn't happen with any of my other plugins only Duende.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by JB872

According to SSL support, it's a Duende problem and they're trying to fix it in V3.

Odd, but OK. Although if you knew that they were fixing it in V3, why make the comment, "in the future, I hope SSL will consider solving the current problems with the Duende before releasing a new product (X-Verb)." They're releasing V3 and X-Verb together.

[JB872]

Originally Posted by elambo

Odd, but OK. Although if you knew that they were fixing it in V3, why make the comment, "in the future, I hope SSL will consider solving the current problems with the Duende before releasing a new product (X-Verb)." They're releasing V3 and X-Verb together.

There's a lot of odd things going on with this box for a lot of people. And I made the comment because it seems I'm still waiting on the V3 fix because they're putting final touches on the X-Verb. And are you affiliated with SSL?

[hipass]

Originally Posted by JB872

According to SSL support, it's a Duende problem and they're trying to fix it in V3. Besides, this problem doesn't happen with any of my other plugins only Duende.

I would expect any miracles for V3 since it has not been reliable since it's release.
Duende is great for the home user - if you want to use it in a pro session - forget it - way too unreliable

[elambo]

Originally Posted by JB872

...I'm still waiting on the V3 fix because they're putting final touches on the X-Verb. And are you affiliated with SSL?

OK, that's fair. It's possible that they don't have the personnel to code the verb and finish V3 simultaneously, although I'd assumed they were separate. You seem confident that there's overlap.

I have no affiliation with SSL whatsoever. I'm just tired of the bad rap this great product gets. Some are valid complaints - yours appears to be - but many are simply unjustified stabs, for several unjustifiable reasons. Jim, the tech dept., the sales guys - they've all been great. The plugs sound excellent and their track record for add-on plugs is solid. I love the X stuff.

The problem with forums like this is that praise, when deserved, rarely makes it to these guys. I think they deserve some, even if the almighty dollar happens to drive their company. If you read these threads you'd think that the majority of Duende owners are having major problems. I know that to be false, it's purely a matter of what type of posts make it to this forum. Content customers are the quietest, busy working. There's also a huge group of confused hobbyist who load their systems with FW devices and other hardware or software giz which makes Duende communication impossible. Who gets blamed? Yep.

[elambo]

Speak of the devil... This time with a wad of irony.

[alex80SSL]

Originally Posted by STRANGY

I feel the need to add to this thread since I've been told by SSL my experiences are the exception... First up, importantly the card sounds excellent; the plug ins are/were when working great so credit to SSL for the Duende (hence my persistence to get my probelms sorted). However, I bought my Duende PCIe 1 month ago and I'm currently stuck with just one fully functional plug in - the Channel Strip... More specifically:

- the Bus Compressor now appears to have expired (bundled plug in?!?)
- the X-eq will not register despite me using the correct (verified by SSL) code ('validation code was incorrect' message)
- upon launching the 16th/32nd instance of any SSL plug in, the Duende will crash the host without any warning / chance for back-up etc losing any unsaved files
- attempting to use the duende plugins in my host with certain buffer sizes causes not only a host crash but an instant system reboot!
- I've also experienced various glitches using the bus comp whereby a huge burst of (extreme level) digital noise (measuring approx 80dB on my master) is followed by a complete mute of audio on that channel until the plugin is removed.

I've been in contact with SSL numerous times for each of the above and as helpful, prompt and courteous as the support team have been, my last response was that my best bet is to wait for v3 drivers which should sort out these problems... now aside from the fact the release for v3 is late, rendering my current Duende rather unusable and that v2xx ought to be mature and stable, I'm not entirely sure I want to sacrifice any cpu power for Duende until I want/need/can afford to upgrade to 64 channels+. This goes slighlty against the reason for buiying the card in the first place.

Am I the most unlucky Duende user - experiencing all these bugs at the same time on the same card?? Please can anyone with the following specs confirm a fully functional Duende PCIe card or share any solutions for the above:

PC with Windows XP service pack 2, Quad 6600 CPU, intel P35 chip with 2gb of RAM
card tested on various hosts including Reaper, Cubase, Ableton etc
1 Focusrite Saffire LE Audio card
no other DSP cards

Thanks

You have 2 Duende or Single Duende ?

Try to check if IRQ are shared with other device.
If not, re-create the problem and after that go to
Windows System Event Viewer and see if there are any
Errors.

Same problem like you, i have resolved.

Alex

[TheMarqueeYears]

I had a Intel DP35DP mobo (p35 chip set) I've had to dump it for a Gigabyte p43 mobo as the p35 caused lot's of probs with my UAD1's.

Maybe .... just maybe your mobo chipset is the problem - is it worth £80 trying a Gigabyte board?

Best
TMY

[guru-bug]

Originally Posted by STRANGY

- the Bus Compressor now appears to have expired (bundled plug in?!?)
- the X-eq will not register despite me using the correct (verified by SSL) code ('validation code was incorrect' message)
- upon launching the 16th/32nd instance of any SSL plug in, the Duende will crash the host without any warning / chance for back-up etc losing any unsaved files
- attempting to use the duende plugins in my host with certain buffer sizes causes not only a host crash but an instant system reboot!
- I've also experienced various glitches using the bus comp whereby a huge burst of (extreme level) digital noise (measuring approx 80dB on my master) is followed by a complete mute of audio on that channel until the plugin is removed.

I had similar problems. They were easy solved:

- fixed the instant reboot problem by switching the duende cards to other PCIe-slots. I used 2 x Duende PCIe + 2 x UAD2-Quad together ... Duende Slots all full loaded without probs.

- had the registration-code error on both PCIe Cards (but not on my firewire Duende) with ALL X-Plugins. The solution is very simple ... it reports an reg-code-error but the plugin is anyway registered. Everything is okay if the time-display on the upper-right corner disappers ...

Maybe this helps ...

Greets,
Guru-Bug

[STRANGY]

Cheers for the suggested solutions,

Alex - nah man, just the 1 Duende card, no other DSP cards installed. I've been into Windows which reports no IRQ conflicts or errors.

TMY - interesting/bad to hear about you MB oddities, something to think about if all else fails! I'd rather stick with what I have as my DAW is rock solid otherwise and I require the old PCI slots for legacy purposes.

Guru Bug - glad to hear you've sorted out similar problems, I've tried all 3 of the PCIe slots on my PC with no joy unfortunately, strange thing is that the Duende is the only PCIe slot in use, (one older PCI slot is being used to host a FW adapter card feeding a Focusrite LE - I've obviously tried disabling this card etc but again no joy).

regarding the Xeq plug-in - since the demo period expired, the red 00 00 00 timer appeared in the top corner… entering the reg code results in an error msg and the zeros remain…. the plugin no longer passes any audio.

The tech team have described my problems as rare bugs. Granted – I may be one of the unlucky few experiencing problems (from possibly hundreds of happy users, too busy working/enjoying themselves to report their satisfaction). However, its very frustrating that us users currently experiencingproblems due to acknowledged buggy drivers learn via an SSL rep posting on a public forum that we have to wait for the finishing touches to be made to a new reverb VST prior to release of the new drivers for Duende!? For info, I’ve been told that there will be no major bug fixes to v2xx software addressing the problems, hence my justifiable request on this forum for suggested solutions.


It seems I must now wait (with bated breathe and a half functioning Duende card) for the v3 driver…

[guru-bug]

Originally Posted by STRANGY

Cheers for the suggested solutions,

Alex - nah man, just the 1 Duende card, no other DSP cards installed. I've been into Windows which reports no IRQ conflicts or errors.

TMY - interesting/bad to hear about you MB oddities, something to think about if all else fails! I'd rather stick with what I have as my DAW is rock solid otherwise and I require the old PCI slots for legacy purposes.

Guru Bug - glad to hear you've sorted out similar problems, I've tried all 3 of the PCIe slots on my PC with no joy unfortunately, strange thing is that the Duende is the only PCIe slot in use, (one older PCI slot is being used to host a FW adapter card feeding a Focusrite LE - I've obviously tried disabling this card etc but again no joy).

regarding the Xeq plug-in - since the demo period expired, the red 00 00 00 timer appeared in the top corner… entering the reg code results in an error msg and the zeros remain…. the plugin no longer passes any audio.

The tech team have described my problems as rare bugs. Granted – I may be one of the unlucky few experiencing problems (from possibly hundreds of happy users, too busy working/enjoying themselves to report their satisfaction). However, its very frustrating that us users currently experiencingproblems due to acknowledged buggy drivers learn via an SSL rep posting on a public forum that we have to wait for the finishing touches to be made to a new reverb VST prior to release of the new drivers for Duende!? For info, I’ve been told that there will be no major bug fixes to v2xx software addressing the problems, hence my justifiable request on this forum for suggested solutions.


It seems I must now wait (with bated breathe and a half functioning Duende card) for the v3 driver…

Maybe switching to the Duende FIREWIRE version can solve your problems. All the problems i had (license/reboots/...) only appeared with the PCIe Cards. I used 2 Duende Classic before without any problems.

You can activate up to 4 Duende Units with your bought plugins. Just ask the support for the license keys after registering the additional Duende.

X-EQ is a *must*. Simply the Algorithmix Blue for 299,- instead of 999,-

Greets,
Guru-Bug

[JB872]

Originally Posted by elambo

OK, that's fair. It's possible that they don't have the personnel to code the verb and finish V3 simultaneously, although I'd assumed they were separate. You seem confident that there's overlap.

I have no affiliation with SSL whatsoever. I'm just tired of the bad rap this great product gets. Some are valid complaints - yours appears to be - but many are simply unjustified stabs, for several unjustifiable reasons. Jim, the tech dept., the sales guys - they've all been great. The plugs sound excellent and their track record for add-on plugs is solid. I love the X stuff.

The problem with forums like this is that praise, when deserved, rarely makes it to these guys. I think they deserve some, even if the almighty dollar happens to drive their company. If you read these threads you'd think that the majority of Duende owners are having major problems. I know that to be false, it's purely a matter of what type of posts make it to this forum. Content customers are the quietest, busy working. There's also a huge group of confused hobbyist who load their systems with FW devices and other hardware or software giz which makes Duende communication impossible. Who gets blamed? Yep.

Tell you what. If V3 fixes my problems with the Duende, I'll let it be known here.

Have you not had any problems with the Duende?

[eddierodriguez]

Originally Posted by elambo

I'm just tired of the bad rap this great product gets. Some are valid complaints - yours appears to be - but many are simply unjustified stabs, for several unjustifiable reasons.

those MANY unjustified users are tired of your complaints about their complaints. your duende is working in your actual setup, be happy with it.

but many duende setups don´t work, accept that please. i wonder how you would react after changing your setup (which can be anytime), giving you a buggy-working duende?

ssl doesn´t need hurrays and well-done praises. they can easily substract all the negative comments from their sales-stats to get an approximate idea of working setups/happy guys. please don´t try to ignore or hide those many bugs, cause you don´t have them (now).

noone´s bashing duende, we just want a working duende as stated on their site, on the box and in the manual. nothing more.

i bought X-eq and X-comp and can´t use them in a professional environment.

[guru-bug]

Originally Posted by JB872

Tell you what. If V3 fixes my problems with the Duende, I'll let it be known here.

Have you not had any problems with the Duende?

I think most problems with Duende are based on (incompatible/bad/cheap whatever) firewire chipsets (for duende classic & mini) and cheap mainboards/chipsets (PCIe Duende). But the same happens with other products from TC/UA ... which all use the firewire & PCIe Bus a bit more to the limits than an external HDD or a Mouse/USB-Stick connected to the PC (or Mac).

A Studio PC for such critical applications should be based on high-end components starting from a good Mainboard and an Intel high-performance chipset. If anyone purchase an Office-PC at the supermarket or assembles his own with a 60$ mainboard, then he´ll run into big problems with such time and performance critical apps. Same for the power-supply. We all know how important a good power-supply for our $3k compressor and EQ is ... but buying computer components they buy a $30 power-supply and ask themself why there are some for $100-$150. You get what you pay for.

I´m in computer business with my own company, we do only service today, but believe me, most PCs you buy in any stores are simply CHEAP, they all use the cheapest worsest components to be a bit cheaper than other companys. We stopped selling hardware few years ago, because the market was dead.

For a stable system, the only solution is to invest a bit more (about 1500-2000$) and buy a special designed audio-pc ... or buying *good* components and self-assemble them.

Never buy a PC in a supermarket/ebay and also not in the computer-store arround your corner. Most of them are not better than ebay ... they all want to make money with cheap components and sell it to the unknowing end-users.

Greets,
Guru-Bug

[elambo]

Originally Posted by JB872

Have you not had any problems with the Duende?

Plenty. I deal with five of them. I've played the firmware games, unable to use Duende at times. I've had to play with the FW bus to see which configuration(s) allows Duende to work. I've had to buy PCI firewire cards. I've been a clown in the Buffer Settings circus. Around the release of Ver. 2, our problems pretty much disappeared. We still have the occasional glitch, but as easy as it would be to blame Duende for these glitches, I often find that something else was to blame after digging a little deeper.

For me, the end easily justifies the means because it's my favorite ITB eq, because X-Comp is lovely, and the bus compressor is another favorite around our studios. But I'm no shill - check the archives and you'll see that I wasn't shy about voicing my distress with early firmware.

I hope V3 fixes your issue. I'm personally excited about the added channels. I don't really need another reverb.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by guru-bug

I think most problems with Duende are based on (incompatible/bad/cheap whatever) firewire chipsets (for duende classic & mini) and cheap mainboards/chipsets (PCIe Duende). But the same happens with other products from TC/UA ... which all use the firewire & PCIe Bus a bit more to the limits than an external HDD or a Mouse/USB-Stick connected to the PC (or Mac).

Could be. A lot of computers do use inferior components, making it harder (or impossible) to get an already finicky box like Duende to work.

[STRANGY]

I agree that low quality components or 'supermarket' PCs might account for some problems/bad user experiences. I spent a lot of money / time researching to make sure that my self-build pc would be stable / geared towards music production, built from good quality components from reputable manufacturers etc.

My experiences are being caused by buggy drivers, as acknowledged in emails from SSL. On the face of it they are fundamental flaws, how can stock plug ins (i.e. the bus comp) on a serious piece of equipment expire!? or not even register (x plugs), or be so unstable as to reboot the system at a given buffer size? I can't help feel that the drivers really ought to be mature and bug free after being on the market for this length of time (and at least 8 revisions from what the website download section implies)... looking at the box the min specs of the card suggest it should comfortably run on even modest modern pcs. 1gh CPU, 512 RAM...

I will also be happy to report here if the Duende gets sorted, and when it does these posts can remain to catalogue the hassle some of us were having in getting the Duende to work.... In the meantime, I'm still stuck with a half working card, too unreliable to dare use. The final word I have heard from the tech support is: "The best thing to do now is to wait for Duende V3 software which will eliminate these kind of issues. Its release is imminent." May 27th... no new drivers and no further replies...

[eddierodriguez]

Originally Posted by guru-bug

I think most problems with Duende are based on (incompatible/bad/cheap whatever) firewire chipsets (for duende classic & mini) and cheap mainboards/chipsets (PCIe Duende). But the same happens with other products from TC/UA ... which all use the firewire & PCIe Bus a bit more to the limits than an external HDD or a Mouse/USB-Stick connected to the PC (or Mac).

A Studio PC for such critical applications should be based on high-end components starting from a good Mainboard and an Intel high-performance chipset. If anyone purchase an Office-PC at the supermarket or assembles his own with a 60$ mainboard, then he´ll run into big problems with such time and performance critical apps. Same for the power-supply. We all know how important a good power-supply for our $3k compressor and EQ is ... but buying computer components they buy a $30 power-supply and ask themself why there are some for $100-$150. You get what you pay for.

I´m in computer business with my own company, we do only service today, but believe me, most PCs you buy in any stores are simply CHEAP, they all use the cheapest worsest components to be a bit cheaper than other companys. We stopped selling hardware few years ago, because the market was dead.

For a stable system, the only solution is to invest a bit more (about 1500-2000$) and buy a special designed audio-pc ... or buying *good* components and self-assemble them.

Never buy a PC in a supermarket/ebay and also not in the computer-store arround your corner. Most of them are not better than ebay ... they all want to make money with cheap components and sell it to the unknowing end-users.

Greets,
Guru-Bug

you wrote a good guide for beginners. i could add many things regarding cheap assembled systems and also audio-assembled systems, cause i´m into the business too...

i have 1 Mac Pro, 1 new Mac Nehalem machine and several highend pc machines...

only selected highend-components, several mainboards of the best brands, several high quality firewire-cards with all available fw-chips...

it´s not about cheap/worse components/chipsets, even my mothers little dell works on 44.1khz loaded fully on mono, but it doesn´t with a single stereo...

and it doesn´t work on 96k and especially not on pro tools. it´s a driver/duende issue, definitely.

[tsvisser]

I've had zero problems with my Duende, and it is the discontinued classic model. Using MacBook Pro and PT LE 8 with 003. I'm not even using a separate firewire buss. I used to use it with an MBox micro for mixing only and was nervous when I moved over to the 003... but all is well so far. Looking forward to V3 and especially X-Verb. I have decided that I'm going to do buss compression out of the box, as I think I have found a setup that is just great for me.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by STRANGY

May 27th... no new drivers and no further replies...

Jim has said in this very thread that they are about two weeks behind the original June 1st release date.

[elambo]

We discovered this week that one of our Duendes was connected directly to the Mac (dual 2.0 G5 w/5GB RAM) along with 5 FW drives and a FW video device. It was a mistake - we have a PCI FW card specifically for Duende. After moving it to the dedicated PCI card it performed the same.

[emkay]

Originally Posted by elambo

OK, that's fair. It's possible that they don't have the personnel to code the verb and finish V3 simultaneously, although I'd assumed they were separate. You seem confident that there's overlap.

I have no affiliation with SSL whatsoever. I'm just tired of the bad rap this great product gets. Some are valid complaints - yours appears to be - but many are simply unjustified stabs, for several unjustifiable reasons. Jim, the tech dept., the sales guys - they've all been great. The plugs sound excellent and their track record for add-on plugs is solid. I love the X stuff.

The problem with forums like this is that praise, when deserved, rarely makes it to these guys. I think they deserve some, even if the almighty dollar happens to drive their company. If you read these threads you'd think that the majority of Duende owners are having major problems. I know that to be false, it's purely a matter of what type of posts make it to this forum. Content customers are the quietest, busy working. There's also a huge group of confused hobbyist who load their systems with FW devices and other hardware or software giz which makes Duende communication impossible. Who gets blamed? Yep.

I don't think that users who are experiencing viable problems are exactly "bad rapping" the product! They just ask that the product they paid for works! Where's the "bad rap" there?

As far as your allegation regarding "praise" is concerned, I have read plenty of accolades showered upon manufacturers here at GS, including SSL!

Your third contention, or should I say assumption, is absolutely ridiculous! Are you actually intimating that "high end" gear used by those "content" users who are "busy", never experience problems with their "esoteric-exclusive" gear? I've read many a post regarding AWS 900, Daking, Pro Tools, etc., whose "content" users experience problems and or anomalies!

Allow me to draw my own conclusions concerning your status. I assume by the amount of time and wordspace you have spent here trivializing some user's problems, and the fact that you yourself are not being "quiet" ,indicates that you are not a "content" user. If you were "busy", you wouldn't be spending precious time insulting some members who are having some "real world" problems! It's great for you that your Duende is working, but you need to accept the fact that some ARE having problems!

I think you can rest assured, that SSL, as a "busy-content-quiet" credible manufacturer with a track record, is more than capable of taking care of these problems without your interference or intervention.

You certainly aren't helping the cause, nor are you being very constructive!
Your post caught my eye during a break ,but I now have to get back to work. I am "busy"and normally "quiet", but I'm sure I wouldn't be lauded as a "content" user by you! Oh well! Maybe one day!

peace for '09 and beyond

[JB872]

Originally Posted by hipass

I would expect any miracles for V3 since it has not been reliable since it's release.
Duende is great for the home user - if you want to use it in a pro session - forget it - way too unreliable

If the hybrid V3 doesn't solve the duende's problems I would hope SSL does the right thing and gives us full native licenses. Taking strain off my CPU is nice and all, but I'd rather be able to use the plugs trouble free.