Alicia Keys Piano

[elambo]

Originally Posted by doktahyde

Another weapon in the Kore, Kontakt arsenal. NI is slowly putting together something special with their variety IMO.

I agree with that. I'm loving Kontakt 4 and the new Scarbee libraries. If AK piano is the bee's knees I'll give up some love for it, too.

[Animus]

Originally Posted by elambo

I agree with that. I'm loving Kontakt 4 and the new Scarbee libraries. If AK piano is the bee's knees I'll give up some love for it, too.

It's too bad EastWest decided to go down the PLAY route. I've pretty much crossed them off my list.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Animus

It's too bad EastWest decided to go down the PLAY route. I've pretty much crossed them off my list.

Same here, but for several reasons, PLAY included.

[Dagavi]

Originally Posted by Reborn

Wow hating is at an all time high! Alicia never claimed to be the best piano player in the world or the best singer on the planet. What she can claim though is that she can emote. That is why her songs connect with millions of people. Clive Davis is a hit maket and he put her out with her own production! I saw her at a Industry convention in tenesee about 2 years before she blew up. She was fully B girl New York then. Sitting at a Wurly singing and playing her ass off to some Hip Hop Sh>%!! You know it just might be hard to write memorable lyrics, stay relevent in pop music, Create great melodies and be the best Piano player that ever played, but you know 3 out of 4 ain't bad. Calm down if you play better than Alicia Keyes. I might Program betetr drums than you, so what.

Great post. !!!


I think for the price and the sound, it's a great deal. It won't hurt to have this in your sample library if you're running thin on piano sounds and don't have easy/any access to a real piano. Good business deal by Alicia. Good-sounding samples. Decent price.

[VitaEtMusica]

Just not feeling this piano like I thought I would. It doesn't seem special to me at all. Something about the first time I heard it waaaaay back when scarbee was putting stuff up made me think it was going to be better. Now the demos have this generic feel I just can't deny. Guess I'll wait a bit to see how this shakes out.

[jamwerks]

Just listened to the demos. Hard to tell just from the demos as there's lots of other instruments in the mixes, but it sounds interesting, maybe up there with ivory. And it's only 99€ ! thumbsup

[Mr.Scarbee]

Originally Posted by elambo

OK, so maybe AK piano was "perfect" for her production, but can you honestly say that you believe that they choose to use the samples because they were better from a production perspective? Can you honestly say that you believe that, had the AK piano not been under development, they'd consider using samples, even if a competitor already had a library which sounded exactly like this one?

They did. One thing is the piano itself - but the preamps and microphones DO change the sound a lot, right? And THAT was the sound she was after.

This is also why you can't compare the sound on video with the sound of the plugin - to me it sounds like piano on video just comes from the mic that she talks to.

Alicia - and her producers would NEVER use the samples on the album- if they had better options - believe me...

Remember it was Alicia and ann Mincielli who started project and got me involved - and later NI. So it was not the other way around.

cheers

Thomas

[Mr.Scarbee]

Originally Posted by flute player

And there is that typical Native instrumenst flat kind of sound over it.

There is really no connection..Piano sound and programming was done before NI was involved. Unless off course the new graphics changed the sound..

Listen to Alicias new album and you will hear how many different sounds the piano can produce with EQ and other FX.

[Gemylon]

Thanks Mr Scarbee for your replies.

I'm really looking forward to this release !



G

[Tui]

Originally Posted by Mr.Scarbee

Unless off course the new graphics changed the sound..

Absolutely. The new graphics make it sound more digital - or would that be analouge? I'm getting confused.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Mr.Scarbee

This is also why you can't compare the sound on video with the sound of the plugin

And that's why I'm anxious to give it a go in-person, in-studio.

[Topgear]

Anyone knows if it needs a dongle, and if it comes with it's only "player" or you need something like the full version of kontakt installed?

[zvenx]

No NI products use dongles. It comes with its own player... you do know information about it is already on NI's website right?
rsp

[danika]

Originally Posted by zvenx

No NI products use dongles.

Having been through the NI authorization process with Komplete as well as several players, frankly I prefer dongles.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by zvenx

No NI products use dongles. It comes with its own player... you do know information about it is already on NI's website right?
rsp

Or he could just ask the forum.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by danika

Having been through the NI authorization process with Komplete as well as several players, frankly I prefer dongles.

NI's authorization is a nightmare. Better recently, but still a pain. For me it has lost authorizations and even failed to authorize new products. Tech support for these authorizations was extremely difficult to obtain.

[Topgear]

Originally Posted by zvenx

No NI products use dongles. It comes with its own player... you do know information about it is already on NI's website right?
rsp

Thanks for the answer part of that.

I'll take the super condescending "you do know information about it is already on NI's website right" as a bonus.

(I couldn't find the info on the site so I thought I'd ask here. If it's painful for you to answer me then don't!)

[bof]

Originally Posted by Topgear

Thanks for the answer part of that.

I'll take the super condescending "you do know information about it is already on NI's website right" as a bonus.

(I couldn't find the info on the site so I thought I'd ask here. If it's painful for you to answer me then don't!)

Didn't seem at all condescending to me. Quite gentle and polite, I thought.

[zvenx]

wow, it wasn't meant to be condescending... I meant it as ok you asked two questions here are the answers as I know them, but there are way more details than I can give you on their website, so if you had more questions you might want to see the info on their website which is already up, although the library hasn't been released.
rsp

[flute player]

Originally Posted by Mr.Scarbee

There is really no connection..Piano sound and programming was done before NI was involved. Unless off course the new graphics changed the sound..
Listen to Alicias new album and you will hear how many different sounds the piano can produce with EQ and other FX.

Thanks for the advice Thomas, I'll listen to it right away.

greetz,

Paul

[Protoolie]

Hello everyone and Mr Scarbee, I was wondering if anyone might know how much Ram these pianos might use when loaded. Also how it has been recorded as all the sampled pianos I have tried so far have been out of phase at least on a few of the notes between the two octaves above and below middle C.
I have tried
Mini Grand which comes with Pro Tools
4Front True pianos
Art Vista
and every Piano in the Ik Sampletank
and many other free ones they have been out of phase.
All have had major Phase Issues except the Yamaha Maestro
Mats Helgesson Maestro
which is a free download recorded X/Y with small condenser mics. However it is not the most playable as it only has 4 layers and the Yamaha is a very dynamic instrument.

[VitaEtMusica]

Originally Posted by Mr.Scarbee

They did. One thing is the piano itself - but the preamps and microphones DO change the sound a lot, right? And THAT was the sound she was after.

This is also why you can't compare the sound on video with the sound of the plugin - to me it sounds like piano on video just comes from the mic that she talks to.

Alicia - and her producers would NEVER use the samples on the album- if they had better options - believe me...

Remember it was Alicia and ann Mincielli who started project and got me involved - and later NI. So it was not the other way around.

cheers

Thomas

There is really no connection..Piano sound and programming was done before NI was involved. Unless off course the new graphics changed the sound..

Listen to Alicias new album and you will hear how many different sounds the piano can produce with EQ and other FX.

The piano on Doesn't Mean Anything sounds quite lifeless. The other single- Try Sleeping With a Broken Heart has very little piano. Both mixes bury the piano. Sounds like what I get when I use my samples. I think you guys are offering something really nice at a nice price point, but I don't necessarily buy into the "this was the best option" thing. If that's the sound they wanted, though, you just can't argue with that, can you?

I'm always astounded at the difference between my best sampled pianos and recording the real thing. The funny thing is the pianos that get me closest are these obscure indie things like Imperfect Pianos and the old Malmsjo and the other art vista... virtual grand, I think??. Guess it doesn't really matter. Just more options, right? Good luck with all this.

[dr_Jezz]

Originally Posted by Mr.Scarbee

There is really no connection..Piano sound and programming was done before NI was involved. Unless off course the new graphics changed the sound..

Listen to Alicias new album and you will hear how many different sounds the piano can produce with EQ and other FX.

Good to hear, because Thomas, your Vintage Keys/FX are the best bar none and far better than I ever imagined they could be (I am always astonished when people say lounge lizard/EVP/Modart are in any way authentic), but as other have commented, I dislike NI instalations since none of mine have ever gone smoothly. Nonetheless, I've got used to what looks like a fruitful pairing and really looking forward to this (despite the interface.... surely you will come up with an alternative - she can't think she can force that on people surely?)! It looks like another unavoidable purchase....

[Topgear]

Originally Posted by zvenx

wow, it wasn't meant to be condescending.

Okay, I'm sorry to interpret it that way, no problem.

Just didn't like the sound of "you DO know that you can find that info on their website" after you gave the answer! Again, I appreciate the answer.

[Topgear]

Seems like this product has been criticized quite a bit on the web before it's even out.

I understand that people think the "Sound of an Icon" tag is a little odd. But in that sentence they are most likely talking about the piano itself, and not Alicia. Alicia is an icon like Norah Jones is an icon. The piano on the other hand is a classic and I think that's what they are trying to say with that line.

However I agree that they shouldn't have claimed that they used this piano on the album because it was the best sounding option out there. There's no way in hell it could top, or even be as good as, the real deal with all the beautiful complexities in sound.

That claim has probably hurt the credibility of the product/company a little bit. I think the samples sound good but they sound like a well sampled piano and that's it.

I wish they would have come out and said "Look, we know it doesn't sound quite as good as the mega expensive real deal, but this is extremely convenient, it's sampled by experts, it works well mixed fairly low in the track, and you can't beat the price either". That kind of honesty would have been kick-ass.

[CuzCutz]

Originally Posted by Topgear

However I agree that they shouldn't have claimed that they used this piano on the album because it was the best sounding option out there. There's no way in hell it could top, or even be as good as, the real deal with all the beautiful complexities in sound.

The real Piano was 'out of tune' and they could not contact the piano tuner the day of the sessions

[dannys1]

Originally Posted by elambo

OK, so maybe AK piano was "perfect" for her production, but can you honestly say that you believe that they choose to use the samples because they were better from a production perspective? Can you honestly say that you believe that, had the AK piano not been under development, they'd consider using samples, even if a competitor already had a library which sounded exactly like this one?

Again, she's a piano chick -- it's VERY hard to believe that she'd opt out of using a real piano. Much more likely is that they're using samples to help promote this product.

As a businessman I can tell you it doesn't make much businesses sense for them just to use the samples on the album to sell this product.

I believe it was done for the very reasons someone else has stated. Its a useful writing tool. To 99.9% of people they wont be able to tell the difference between K4 instrument and the real thing - and it looks like it was mainly set up to use live. Simply fire up a laptop and shes got an almost indistingusal sound to the real thing right there...

Funny how this thread has gone from saying its the best sounding piano in the world when it was a Scarbee product to mystically sounding flat now now its an Alicia Keys branded NI product.

Im sorry but time and time again people on Gear Sluts seem to hear what they want to hear by their own hyped opinions. In the same way shootout after shootout has got many people to chose plugins over real analog gear despite them saying how they can easily tell the difference and all the "physiological" of turning real knobs that it has on people is once again shown here.

The piano sounds great, its a clever bit of marketing - in all likely hood the idea to market this way came after the idea to sample the piano for her ease of use wherever she was. It does NOT make commercial sense to use it on the album ONLY to sell the product. This product will sell to a niche market in the thousands - the album will sell to the millions...

If you dont like it because your mind is telling you can't use a product branded by NI and Alica Keys then simply dont. But im betting in a shoot out with 5 other sampled pianos blind, you'd be very very hard pushed to tell me which piano was which.

[VitaEtMusica]

Originally Posted by dannys1

If you dont like it because your mind is telling you can't use a product branded by NI and Alica Keys then simply dont. But im betting in a shoot out with 5 other sampled pianos blind, you'd be very very hard pushed to tell me which piano was which.

I bet not. They're all quite different.

You're right, though. We're being a bit hard on them. It's not like they came in and said, "We've come up with the greatest sampled piano ever!" They're only saying they've captured Alicia Keys' piano vibe. Well, who would know better than her? The price is right, nothing revolutionary, there you go.

Obviously, you open a can of worms when you attach an artist's name (and an expectation) with a product.

[dannys1]

Originally Posted by VitaEtMusica

I bet not. They're all quite different.

You're right, though. We're being a bit hard on them. It's not like they came in and said, "We've come up with the greatest sampled piano ever!" They're only saying they've captured Alicia Keys' piano vibe. Well, who would know better than her? The price is right, nothing revolutionary, there you go.

Obviously, you open a can of worms when you attach an artist's name (and an expectation) with a product.

Its not even that - this thread is proof of people thinking things sound good/bad due to their visual image of it.

If you read from page one - people are raving its the best sampled piano they've ever heard, its an amazing scarbee product.

You get to the last few pages and people are saying ridiculous things like "now it sounds flat like every other NI piano" and more ridiculously "im sure NIs compression technology (the one that has NOTHING to do with how something sounds) is having an effect"

Ok granted, if you are into pianos they sound different. Personally im not - a piano is a piano to me, im not a huge fan of Pianos full stop - but I can listen to just drums all day and im sure some people would tell me all the electronic snares I like sound quite similar...

But honestly, id love to see a shoot out with the real thing recorded through the same mics and premaps being played, compared to the sampled thing over a variety of different ways of playing and see if the same person who suddenly (stupidly) said I hate Alicia and this is the worst piano ive ever heard could even tell which was which...I honestly doubt it.

At the end of the day it also proves that you can use a sample piano to sell millions of copies of an album and frankly my dear none of the end users care - so while we're debating on here which sample instrument sounds better, if a real piano is better in the mix and if you hate Alicia Keys or Scarbee or not, perhaps the proof is we've got tools here to make hits and if you've got the skills (and the contacts) you should be making them rather than bitterly slagging off marketing ideas.

[elambo]

Gearslutz and the conversations under its umbrella have never claimed to offer any formulas for success in the music business. Nor has this particular discussion. I think we adults realize that we're no more guaranteed a hit recording using the "best" of anything than we are by using average or mediocre equipment. Talented engineers and musicians will make most products sound good.

But if the price difference between what we personally perceives as "best" and "average" is a hundred bucks... No brainer. Get the best, even if talent drips from your pores.

So the point of the thread becomes... what's the best? How high on the ladder does this piano sit? What's the value of Alicia's endorsement? What does it mean that they used this on her latest album? And other things that might seem like a waste of time to some people.

If these things aren't productive to anyone they should feel free to ignore them. I, on the other hand, am interested in the opinions of others since we don't yet have our hands on this. Once it's released all theories will be moot and our ears and fingers will tell the story as it is.

It's also why some (most) people hate pre-release hype. Much of it is just noise, but we're not forced to listen, right?