NEW STRING LIBRARY -- announcing LA Scoring Strings (LASS)

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Very interested in this and will be keeping an eye on this thread for sure!

From the demo, sounds promising but would like to hear a more 'strings only'
well-programmed demo......

Is there a website or something? I googled but didn't find anything except
this thread.

Hi there,

And thanks for the interest (writing this from the hotel at NAMM :-)

Official demos will be forthcoming in the next weeks after NAMM... there will of course be "strings only" demos.

For a more in-deph discussion about this library... go here (over 130 responses): v.i. control forum • View topic - NEW STRING LIBRARY -- announcing LA Scoring Strings (LASS) [ Guest ]

The official site is here: Welcome to LA scoring strings

Cheers MPCist,

T
(Andrew)

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by Thonex

Hi there,

And thanks for the interest (writing this from the hotel at NAMM :-)

Official demos will be forthcoming in the next weeks after NAMM... there will of course be "strings only" demos.

For a more in-deph discussion about this library... go here (over 130 responses): v.i. control forum • View topic - NEW STRING LIBRARY -- announcing LA Scoring Strings (LASS) [ Guest ]

The official site is here: Welcome to LA scoring strings

Cheers MPCist,

T
(Andrew)

Thanks for the reply, Andrew. This is really interesting and can't wait to see/hear more about it!

Would it be possible to upload some videos of the demos being done at NAMM? Or perhaps one of the GS members out there attending NAMM, wanna drop by and make a few short video clips?

[Crandak]

Anyone heard it yet? How much!?!?

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Would it be possible to upload some videos of the demos being done at NAMM? Or perhaps one of the GS members out there attending NAMM, wanna drop by and make a few short video clips?

Yeah let's see them demos

[Thonex]

Thanks guys,

I'm at NAMM now... 1 day down... 3 to go. I'm doing a couple of "official" demos a day at specified times and there's a good turn out. Of course with all the background noise at NAMM... it's hard for anyone to hear the fidelity of the recordings, but everyone seems very impressed.

After a few meetings at NAMM... I think I'll do my best to keep the library at under $1500. There are still a few meetings and things that need to be finalized in the upcoming weeks, but I can't see that it would be over $1500.

Re:demos... I know... I know.... everyone is chomping at the bit. Demos are just a few weeks away from being posted... hang in there.

Thanks for the interest and support.

Cheers,

T

[noiseflaw]

Originally Posted by Thonex

Thanks guys,

I'm at NAMM now... 1 day down... 3 to go. I'm doing a couple of "official" demos a day at specified times and there's a good turn out. Of course with all the background noise at NAMM... it's hard for anyone to hear the fidelity of the recordings, but everyone seems very impressed.

After a few meetings at NAMM... I think I'll do my best to keep the library at under $1500. There are still a few meetings and things that need to be finalized in the upcoming weeks, but I can't see that it would be over $1500.

Re:demos... I know... I know.... everyone is chomping at the bit. Demos are just a few weeks away from being posted... hang in there.

Thanks for the interest and support.

Cheers,

T

Great.

Take your time with the demo's, we can wait - just don't mash 'em. Get some decent arrangers in!

[pigcat]

Originally Posted by Thonex

I think I'll do my best to keep the library at under $1500.

Seems reasonable to me, especially considering this library actually capable of doing full strings section, chamber, and solo.

I guess I'll be using the 4 players per section more often than the full sections. And I can see it's promising because I worked on some xfade patches using modwheel, the transition between velocity layers often doubled and creating unpleasant doubling effect. Glad someone actually aware of how important the modwheel xfade patches are.

Awaiting for the demos.

[Thonex]

Thanks Noiseflaw.



@ Pigcat

Originally Posted by pigcat

Seems reasonable to me, especially considering this library actually capable of doing full strings section, chamber, and solo.

I guess I'll be using the 4 players per section more often than the full sections. And I can see it's promising because I worked on some xfade patches using modwheel, the transition between velocity layers often doubled and creating unpleasant doubling effect. Glad someone actually aware of how important the modwheel xfade patches are.

Awaiting for the demos.

Thanks for observing that this is in fact like 5 libraries in 1. First Chair (solo), 1/4 section, 2nd 1/4 section, 1/2 section, full section (minus First Chair).


" I guess I'll be using the 4 players per section more often than the full sections."

I agree that people will be drawn to the smaller constituent ensembles of each section for their flexibility and control.... although my estimation is that some people may use (say) the full bass section and then come up with their own combination of the other ensembles. The Full Mix is there mostly as a convenience.

"Glad someone actually aware of how important the modwheel xfade patches are."

Especially in conjunction with legato samples.

Cheers,

T

[Jack Weaver]

Quick overview after hearing a demo.

Heard it at NAMM on Thursday - under difficult circumstances. The exhibition hall was extremely loud and discordant. The speakers for LASS were not quite loud enough to overpower the background din.

LASS is in the Ars Vista booth as a guest of the very gracious Hans Adamson. So it was a borrowed audio setup.

First of all, the demo was attended by numerous luminaries in the sample development community. It was shoulder-to-shoulder with some people in the front actually sitting on the floor. Word was definitely out.

A lot of detail was not audible because of the environmental issues. But what could be heard over the little Tannoy 8" speakers was impressive.

It was obvious that Thonex has solved the phasing issues on solo instruments when velocity crossfading them. The developers in the crowd were looking at each other and with raised eyebrows.

The intrument sections had a wide dynmamic range and pleasing sound. The overall room ambience was a much more than VSL, just a little more than Sonivox and much less than Symphobia.

Some of the detail in the Vlns was lost in the noise of the exhibition hall. I wish I could have heard more deeply into them. I was standing near the front but there was just no way.

The Violas & Celli are to die for. Etched, warm - they shouldn't get lost in a full string section ensemble.

The articulation tool (ART) was extremely clever and intuitive to use and expand upon. It will make it much faster to produce many kinds of scores.

LASS is intended to be a living library - with continuing updates. The company owner is a Kontakt sciptor, a string player and a working composer. The library evinces all this.

This is one of those must-have libraries. At least for me.

Gentlemen, start your credit cards!

[everyday]

Thnoex,

Are THE Thonex at Nuendo forum?

Congratulations on release of your library.


I have a question.

Can your library do fast legato?

I haven't found any sample library that can do this.


Thank you.


T...

[Thonex]

@ Jack Weaver,

Thanks for the your wonderful NAMM review!! And thanks to all of you that showed up to the various demos over the last 3 days (tomorrow's the last day). You guys are all troopers for bending your ears over the NAMM noise to hear my new library. Demoing a string library in that environment is very frustrating but fortunately it seems that people were able to hear the important aspects of the library and key in on the ease of use.

When I post the demos in the next weeks then you'll be able to hear LASS the way it is meant to be heard.

Just one minor correction Jack, I'm not a violinist, but a composer/arranger.



@ Everyday,

" Can your library do fast legato?

I haven't found any sample library that can do this."

How fast is fast? can you give me a tempo and note value? Are you talking about runs? It plays fast tempos fairly well. However, if patches are optimized for only fast tempos, it sounds even better, but not ideal for more common tempos. My beta testers and I have discussed perhaps doing "fast" optimized patches.... and that can be done... so I'm curious as to how fast is fast for you?

Cheers,

T

[Jack Weaver]

Mr. Thonex,

As long as you are taking requests....
How about triplet 1/16th notes @ 108 BPM?

I'm just PMing you with a link to a piece I just finished that took for freakin' ever to get the strings to sound even half-way decent. Tons of layering and messing with the time (note by note and 'way too many notes at that). I don't really want to go thru this process again unless I really have to.

If you could do something that would some how speed up this process I would be thankful. I don't necessarily expect it to be a 'one-pass' answer but anything in the right direction would help.

Thanks,
Jack

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by Jack Weaver

Mr. Thonex,

As long as you are taking requests....
How about triplet 1/16th notes @ 108 BPM?

I'm just PMing you with a link to a piece I just finished that took for freakin' ever to get the strings to sound even half-way decent. Tons of layering and messing with the time (note by note and 'way too many notes at that). I don't really want to go thru this process again unless I really have to.

If you could do something that would some how speed up this process I would be thankful. I don't necessarily expect it to be a 'one-pass' answer but anything in the right direction would help.

Thanks,
Jack

Thanks Jack,

I got the link and I'll see what I can do. I think people are wanting the "Harry Potter" ripping string runs sound. That's not what this library was designed for, but who knows... I welcome the challenge... let me finish NAMM and a few demos first... and then I'll see if perhaps I can tackle the Harry Potter runs with my Lib.

Cheers,

T

[pigcat]

Well just for a fair competition - the fast running note is where DVZ shines. I've heard the early demo of the DVZ strings, while it sound weird and overly EQ'ed, but the runs were the best I've heard, sound just like a sampled run but you know, it's flexible instead of a fixed sample!

Also I've heard the VSL user demo did by Beat Kaufmann (if I remembered correctly), he used the trill performance to do the run and it's as effective, sound a wee bit "too perfect" and potentially limited in tempo range, but it's convincing for that particular demo (it's chamber strings so the runs won't sound too loose).

But then I'm looking at almost double of the price and not included the machines needed to run for DVZ, and triple of the price for VSL (including all strings). We'll see what Thonex can come up for that to compete with others (and hope my comments will give you more clues of what we want).

[Jack Weaver]

Yeah, I'm with you Pigcat.

It's really not fair to ask Thonex this. It's not really what his library is for. His library is beautiful and lyrical.

It's Gearslutz so I can legally say, 'Buy them both'.

They are so totally different animals.

I'm all set to go on AI after a couple of more questions to them this week. LASS is 1/4 the price & is a complete no-brainer purchase.

As I've stated before in AI the time spread & pitch spread are going to make inputting fast lines a lot easier.

[The MPCist]

For the love of God, would someone shoot some video feed of the NAMM presentation!!!!

The suspense is killing me!!!!!

[pigcat]

Originally Posted by Jack Weaver

As I've stated before in AI the time spread & pitch spread are going to make inputting fast lines a lot easier.

Perhaps a little faking on-the-fly to deal with the samples, as you mentioned, time stretch thing or something.

I remember reading the Project SAM developer who's also a great film scorer - Maarten Spruijt, he also manually process the samples he extract from Giga sampler, and make them shorter/snappier and repack them to use.

I understand it's not what LASS made for but the lyrical and expressive strings are what seriously lacking in the market. But that said, if Thonex can come out with something, it'll be an instant kill (well, almost).

[michael c]

Heard the demo at NAMM and it was really hard to tell how the library will translate. Still, it is a library to definitely check out. Can't wait for the demos.

One thing that concerns me is that it is "powered by Kontakt." We are on ProTools HD and Kontakt is hit & miss for us. Kontakt isn't approved for ProTools/Leopard by NI themselves.

[Thonex]

Hi Guys,

NAMM is over... now I can get some sleep

Originally Posted by michael c

Heard the demo at NAMM and it was really hard to tell how the library will translate. Still, it is a library to definitely check out. Can't wait for the demos.


One thing that concerns me is that it is "powered by Kontakt." We are on ProTools HD and Kontakt is hit & miss for us. Kontakt isn't approved for ProTools/Leopard by NI themselves.

Hi Michael,

Thanks for coming to the booth and checking out LASS... and muscling through NAMM's ambient noise -- much appreciated. It's always frustrating to demo a string library at NAMM.. unless your ear is less than 8 inches away from the speaker... you're not going to hear any detail. While people couldn't hear the fidelity of LASS over the noise at NAMM, it seems everyone was able to understand the depth of it's legato performance as well as the short articulations like Spiccattos and Staccatos with the A.R.T. script (Auto Rhythm Tool).

With regards to Kontakt and Pro Tools, That's something out of my control. I would offer other platforms if possible, but no other platform supports scripting... and these patches have very complicated scripts that make playing legato samples (legato, portamento and glissando) easy and intuitive. I'm just not aware of any other solution.

Cheers,

T

[The MPCist]

Yeah, NI/PT has got me worried too since if you noticed from the recent posts on DUC and NI's forums, NI is keeping quiet (meaning: doing nothing) about the problem with PT8.

Is it possible to script the same for, say, Structure..?

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Yeah, NI/PT has got me worried too since if you noticed from the recent posts on DUC and NI's forums, NI is keeping quiet (meaning: doing nothing) about the problem with PT8.

Is it possible to script the same for, say, Structure..?

No. Unfortunately, Kontakt is the only game in town that currently offers scripting. But I'm very confident that NI/PT will resolve this soon.... there are simply to many professional composer/producers that use the 2 for incompatibilities to go on much longer (IMO).

T

[davecos]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Yeah, NI/PT has got me worried too since if you noticed from the recent posts on DUC and NI's forums, NI is keeping quiet (meaning: doing nothing) about the problem with PT8.

Is it possible to script the same for, say, Structure..?

Did you happen to catch that recent article in SOS regarding how to maximize PT8 for plug-ins? They say you should set your processors to 1 for RTAS playback in the Setup>PLayback Hardware menu.

I was having a terrible time with Symphobia until I did this on my Mac Pro. Works fine now.

Sorry Thonex for the OT. I'm really looking forward to hearing those demos.

Also, I read that you wanted to do tighter spiccato and staccato articulations. How are they compared to Symphobia's spiccato and then even the HALION Symphony Orchestra ones (I like using both of those). Most libs don't get the right tight sound. I want to say I like the VSL ones but they have strange cut-offs that I have to edit the ADSR to get a more realistic release.

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by davecos

Did you happen to catch that recent article in SOS regarding how to maximize PT8 for plug-ins? They say you should set your processors to 1 for RTAS playback in the Setup>PLayback Hardware menu.

I was having a terrible time with Symphobia until I did this on my Mac Pro. Works fine now.

Sorry Thonex for the OT. I'm really looking forward to hearing those demos.

Also, I read that you wanted to do tighter spiccato and staccato articulations. How are they compared to Symphobia's spiccato and then even the HALION Symphony Orchestra ones (I like using both of those). Most libs don't get the right tight sound. I want to say I like the VSL ones but they have strange cut-offs that I have to edit the ADSR to get a more realistic release.

Yes I did see the 'set 1 for rtas' part... Any updates as to LASS demos yet?

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Yes I did see the 'set 1 for rtas' part... Any updates as to LASS demos yet?

Just "pinging" this thread so those that may have subscribed to it get notified about the demo.

Here is the demo thread link:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...ml#post3934052

[Ashermusic]

Andrew, get off all these g-damn forums and go back to work!

[The MPCist]

So, after three months...... is there any updates? Is it done or .....?

[Jack Weaver]

FireGS @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:24 pm wrote:
*cricket.... cricket*


Any news? o.o...


I guess now is as good as any to give an unofficial update.....

We've been very busy in LASS Land... and have been working very hard in conjunction with Native Instruments especially considering their RAM breakthroughs. So things are pretty exciting.

First, it looks like we’re on schedule for this month... although I may be cutting it REALLY close. You know... DVD duplication, PDFs and all the marketing stuff composers are great at Laughing ... So I think we may well have it ready for purchase by the end of the month... if not, I think we’re talking “days” difference here... not weeks or months.

Programming and development for LASS is done!!! All the patches are DONE!!! ... all 467 of them . I don't want to begin to tell you how relieved I am about that phase being done.... actually... I do want to tell you. Laughing Programming over 200 (yes... 200+!!!!!!) legato patches just about sucked the life out of me. But I'm all better now... thank you Very Happy. 200+ legato Patches?????? You might be asking yourself... "What the ----????? Why 200+ legato patches??" Good Question... here's the answer: to give you options. Remember... LASS is a like five libraries in one: a First Chair library, 1/4 Divisi A, 1/4 Divisi B, 1/2 Divisi C and a Full Section library.

I’ve added new patches that give you 100% real-time speed control of all portamentos and glissandos no mater what dynamic... or even if you’re mid crescendo – the performance is transparent. The Speed control patches take more ram, so I’ve also done regular, medium, and fast DFD legato patches for those who are concerned about ram. I also did patches that don’t include glissandos, or portamentos.. and all different permutations... so you can find the right combination for you and your setup. Providing all those variations (consistently across all the divisis of all instruments) adds up. So don’t be intimidated. All of this will be very clear, consistent and obvious... and EASY for you when released. It’s all about giving you options.

Oh yeah.... and I’ve programmed an entire Vlns II library (including LASS Real Legato paches). They layer beautifully with the Vlns I.

Oh... and I also programmed Ensemble patches... ensemble sustains, spiccatos, staccatos, pizzicatos, tremolos, and some kind of cool glissando FX patches.

Oh... and LASS will include both 24 bit and 16 bit sample pools. It will automatically install both. If you don't want one, you can just delete the sample pool you won't want. But try both to start with... see if you hear benefits or if you want to put less strain on the HD, use the 16 bit version. It's your choice. I'm doing this at no extra cost to you because there's about a 60/40 split on who wants 24 vs 16... so... with those numbers... I figure offer both.

LASS will be released as K3.5 Player. The ram and performance benefits are simply too great to not take advantage of... especially with a deep library like LASS. I think 3 of my beta testers have loaded the entire 24 bit version of LASS into one computer along with their other favorite libraries in K3.5. This was simply impossible just a few months ago.

So... barring any major mishaps, I think we’ll be able to release the library when we said we would... but it will be close.

Demos? Demos (and I’m planning videos to show how easy it is to play these instruments) will be posted upon release.

Cheers,

Andrew K

[ButchP]

Originally Posted by Jack Weaver

FireGS @ Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:24 pm wrote:
*cricket.... cricket*


Any news? o.o...

.......................................

So... barring any major mishaps, I think we’ll be able to release the library when we said we would... but it will be close.

Demos? Demos (and I’m planning videos to show how easy it is to play these instruments) will be posted upon release.

Cheers,

Andrew K

[frankymax]

Cool- I'm looking forward to this library Andrew, but I have one question. I have Kontakt 3 and I went to NI's website today to get 3.5 but it's still in beta- so when you release this library will it not work on Kontakt 3? I ask as I'm reticent to load the 3.5 beta version as they say at their website that when you load 3.5 you will lose your K3 install and if 3.5 doesn't work you have to reinstall the whole kaboodle of K3 from the DVDs. Not a huge problem but a bit of a hassle if the K3.5 beta is kind of buggy. Is NI's Kontakt 3.5 going to be released before or after LASS? Thanks for making this library- I have high hopes for it- the demo you have on the website is gorgeous!

[Stiff]

The Kontakt 3.5 beta expires July 1, so I think we can assume the full version will be out by then.