Mellowmuse OSX VSTs plugs

[eboy]

First release from Mellowmuse is a range of OSX VSTs:

EQ1A, anlogue style EQ
CP1A, anlogue style compressor
IR1A, convolution
Mellowhead, guitar amp sim
ATA, Automatic delay adjuster for ProTools LE

check out the demos at:
Mellowmuse Software

[matt thomas]

this looks interesting, not that I use LE, I wonder what peeder will think

for $29:

Auto Time Adjuster is designed to ease workflow in ProTools LE, when using plug-ins that generate significant latency. Currently to compensate for plugin latency you have to iether move individual audio tracks backwards/forwards or use the included Time Adjuster plugin to adjust the delay of each track in turn. One plug-in change can mean a lot of tweaks in a large project. This is where Auto Time Adjuster comes in, you insert it on every track as the last plug-in, and each track instance communicates their latency with the others. When you add/remove a plugin on a track all you need to do is enter the total latency for that track into its Auto Time Adjuster. All other tracks with Auto Time Adjuster inserted will respond by calculating and shifting their delay to compensate!

* FXpansion's VST-RTAS Wrapper is required to use this plug-in use in ProTools LE.
* ATA needs to be authorised in a VST host eg: Live, Cubase, Reaper, the "i" authorise button has been removed when using VST-RTAS Wrapper in ProTools, due to a bug that is currently being worked on.

narco

[redroom]

Will check them out later Good to see some new OSX vst

[K-Slash]

Waiting for opinions of people who demoed it, as it is written in the website that Windows VST may come later.

Any thoughts about how it sounds ?

[redroom]

Im really liking the compressor
the eq is ncie but I have loads of those

[SKyflash34]

I'd really like to hear how well this Auto Time Adjuster works in LE/Mpowered.
Hell it's cheap enough,I should just buy it and the VST-RTAS adapter and
see for myself.

[peeder]

I'm going to give the automatic latency compensator plugin a try.

If they got the idea from my gearslutz postings describing the possibility, maybe they'd give me a free copy? (It's OK if it works it's worth the $29!)

[matt thomas]

If I were them I'd be working on a native RTAS version. They'd make $$$$, assuming it works

narco

[peeder]

Originally Posted by narco

If I were them I'd be working on a native RTAS version. They'd make $$$$, assuming it works

narco

Yathink Digi would let them do dat?

(Digi controls EVERYTHING that gets developed for RTAS/TDM. I mentioned in one of my posts on this months ago that it would have to be via the VST wrapper because there was no WAY digi would ever let someone circumvent the HD hegemony.)

[C Heat]

Originally Posted by peeder

...hegemony.)

Never heard that before!

Dictionary.com told me

[eboy]

Hi

This is Gary from Mellowmuse, thanks for the positive comments on the new plug-ins.
It's great to here feedback on what im doing. I work as a composer/arranger professionally and have been developing these plug-in for use in my own music over the past couple of years. I've started with VST because i love Cubase(4) and the mac doesnt always get the attention it deserves from VST developers. I'm working on Audio Units ports as we speak, and Windows VST versions of the ATA , EQ1A and Mellowhead.

re ATA

If I were them I'd be working on a native RTAS version. They'd make $$$$, assuming it works

The delay compensation thing has always plagued me working in LE, hence the move to Cubase. I had this idea a good year or so (sorry peeder), when i was working on a sidechain (simular concept) for the CP1A compressor (before Cubase 4 got them built in), using the VST-Wrapper to automate the delay settings over multiple tracks. It's kind of a half way house for now. I don't know if RTAS supports this sort of thing, at least not how i've implemented it, and as was mentioned i may have blown any future chance of acceptance into the digi fold.

Edit:
I just checked peeders' plug-in post he mentioned, and i think the pinging idea is good. Im working on a track in LE at the moment and the
reported delay, which you can usually rely on, was way off using DFH with various compressors etc. I had to record and measure the latency manually to get an accurate reading. I'll look into implementing that, peeder: if you want to pm me ill send you a free copy of ATA!


Gary
Mellowmuse Software
Mellowmuse Software

[matt thomas]

yes pinging is a good idea

also, I believe fxpansion does deals to companies wanting to use their wrapping technology for their plugins. They can make you a cheaper version wrapper that only works on your plugins. I think UAD does this.You might want to look into it.

narco

[peeder]

Originally Posted by eboy

Hi

This is Gary from Mellowmuse, thanks for the positive comments on the new plug-ins.
It's great to here feedback on what im doing. I work as a composer/arranger professionally and have been developing these plug-in for use in my own music over the past couple of years. I've started with VST because i love Cubase(4) and the mac doesnt always get the attention it deserves from VST developers. I'm working on Audio Units ports as we speak, and Windows VST versions of the ATA , EQ1A and Mellowhead.

re ATA


The delay compensation thing has always plagued me working in LE, hence the move to Cubase. I had this idea a good year or so (sorry peeder), when i was working on a sidechain (simular concept) for the CP1A compressor (before Cubase 4 got them built in), using the VST-Wrapper to automate the delay settings over multiple tracks. It's kind of a half way house for now. I don't know if RTAS supports this sort of thing, at least not how i've implemented it, and as was mentioned i may have blown any future chance of acceptance into the digi fold.

Edit:
I just checked peeders' plug-in post he mentioned, and i think the pinging idea is good. Im working on a track in LE at the moment and the
reported delay, which you can usually rely on, was way off using DFH with various compressors etc. I had to record and measure the latency manually to get an accurate reading. I'll look into implementing that, peeder: if you want to pm me ill send you a free copy of ATA!


Gary
Mellowmuse Software
Mellowmuse Software

OK Gary I tried your ATA. It's not terribly automatic...you still need to determine the delay of each track manually (using the "dly" figure would help, but not for hardware inserts...) and type it into the field. From there, it will sync everybody else up at the maximum level you chose, but unfortunately, there is only one such group. So when you need to compensate busses and tracks separately (for e.g. fx sends or just bus processing) this won't work...it could be useful for the track level, but again, only if you know what your delays are.

I'm glad you found my post...see I'm kinda inventive after all. I'd recommend my videos as a good demonstration of the ins and outs of insert delay in practice. If you can make a great, really automagic delay compensator for PTLE, I will make you a free training video! Fair trade?

Delay Compensation in Pro Tools - FREE Video Tutorials!

[eboy]

hi peeder,

OK Gary I tried your ATA. It's not terribly automatic...you still need to determine the delay of each track manually (using the "dly" figure would help, but not for hardware inserts...) and type it into the field. From there, it will sync everybody else up at the maximum level you chose, but unfortunately, there is only one such group. So when you need to compensate busses and tracks separately (for e.g. fx sends or just bus processing) this won't work...it could be useful for the track level, but again, only if you know what your delays are.

I'm glad you found my post...see I'm kinda inventive after all. I'd recommend my videos as a good demonstration of the ins and outs of insert delay in practice. If you can make a great, really automagic delay compensator for PTLE, I will make you a free training video! Fair trade?

Thanks, some valid points there, providing separate groups is easy, then its a matter of some kind of ping mechanism to detect the delay, which is more of a implementation issue. I mix/track totally in the box and found entering just one figure as oposed to tweaking every track (at a track level even) a little automagic , ill endeavor to make it more so!

Gary

[SKyflash34]

Wow this is sounding more and more fantastic. I can see having a ping feature
would allow more accurate representation of the delay on any given track given
how some FX plugins don't properly report their induced delay.

Consider me already sold Gary. I'm mainly a Logic guy these days
but occasionally still do work in LE/MP. This plugin would make the bigger
projects a lot more bearable. I may even be doing more projects in
Pro Tools eventually.

I'm gonna purchase the plugin this weekend.

[galaga]

Originally Posted by peeder

OK Gary I tried your ATA. It's not terribly automatic...you still need to determine the delay of each track manually (using the "dly" figure would help, but not for hardware inserts...) and type it into the field. From there, it will sync everybody else up at the maximum level you chose, but unfortunately, there is only one such group. So when you need to compensate busses and tracks separately (for e.g. fx sends or just bus processing) this won't work...it could be useful for the track level, but again, only if you know what your delays are.

I was truly thrilled to read about this ATA. But to just clarify a bit for my slow brain early this morning.........is it what you're saying that it works well for audio tracks but not for aux send channels (like a reverb) because it just does a "universal" compensation across all the instances of ATA? Bear with me please........I'm sure I'm not understanding things correctly and need to wake up and think a bit.......but even if only using it on audio tracks.........wouldn't it matter that for example that a kick drum track had 1 plug but the snare had 2?

Also, when you say not terribly automatic, do you mean that just using the delay calculation provided by command+clicking the volume display on the channel isn't correct? There are some plugs that I've always felt didn't seem to report this accurately since nudging tracks back by the reported amount never seemed to be right. I've always had to bus to another track in record and manually compute the delay to be accurate.


I really want to like this plug; just want to understand how much of the ADC problem it will actually address. Especially since Digi's obvious reluctance to address ADC and my being forced to either work in PT LE, spend too much time converting everything that's brought to me to work from PT or shelling out for HD, I'd say this has some potential. I know I'm interested!


Thanks

[eboy]

The current ATA automates the function of the Digi Time Adjuster across multiple audio tracks,.
example:
You start with an ATA inserted on all your audio tracks in the last slot, no plug-ins, and as you add plugins to each individual track you enter the reported delay into that tracks' ATA only, it talks to the other ATAs on all the other tracks and tells them to compensate for any delay you have created by adding your new plug. It means with say 32 tracks you make 1 tweak instead of 32. You can of course start anywhere through a project, but its easier to see whats going on stating from scratch.

I've just finished adding pinging capability and grouping - this takes care of busses and removes the need to enter anything - just one click and it all lines up. It does however take up 2 insert slots on each track, There's some testing i want to do but an update for ATA will be available early next week.

[SKyflash34]

wow that was quick I think I'll wait to buy the plugin until the new version.

[galaga]

VERY nice! I've bookmarked your site and will be back with you next week.

[Sonic Nomad]

Originally Posted by eboy

I've just finished adding pinging capability and grouping - this takes care of busses and removes the need to enter anything - just one click and it all lines up. It does however take up 2 insert slots on each track, There's some testing i want to do but an update for ATA will be available early next week.

This is great!

Any chance you can develop a plugin chainer to make up for the lost inserts?
Perhaps you could include the ability to save presets of the plugin set and their relevant settings

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by SKyflash34

wow that was quick I think I'll wait to buy the plugin until the new version.

whoah! that was quick!

he's probably written the pro tools killer by now!

narco

[matt thomas]

Originally Posted by Sonic Nomad

This is great!

Any chance you can develop a plugin chainer to make up for the lost inserts?
Perhaps you could include the ability to save presets of the plugin set and their relevant settings

yeah TC electronic used to make one of those, but discontinued it. I think it was vst

If something like this could make any plugin be used in parallel that would be cool (AU!)

narco

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Sonic Nomad

This is great!

Any chance you can develop a plugin chainer to make up for the lost inserts?
Perhaps you could include the ability to save presets of the plugin set and their relevant settings

There's NI Kore, which is also the only way I know to get AU into RTAS. A 3rd party developer probably won't be able to do a good chainer for chaining RTAS. They probably don't publish that metadata to the RTAS API, and if someone hacked into it, they'd probably cut them off the next release.

[Sonic Nomad]

Originally Posted by peeder

There's NI Kore, which is also the only way I know to get AU into RTAS. A 3rd party developer probably won't be able to do a good chainer for chaining RTAS. They probably don't publish that metadata to the RTAS API, and if someone hacked into it, they'd probably cut them off the next release.

Ah! Thanks for that bit of info. Can one get Kore without the hardware?

[galaga]

Originally Posted by eboy

The current ATA automates the function of the Digi Time Adjuster across multiple audio tracks,.
<snip>
I've just finished adding pinging capability and grouping - this takes care of busses and removes the need to enter anything - just one click and it all lines up. It does however take up 2 insert slots on each track, There's some testing i want to do but an update for ATA will be available early next week.

Sorry. I'm a bit confused. Is ATA actually doing the delay compensation or just automating the values for the digi time adjuster plugs? In other words, what causes the use of 2 inserts?

* ATA needs to be authorised in a VST host eg: Live, Cubase, Reaper, the "i" authorise button has been removed when using VST-RTAS Wrapper in ProTools, due to a bug that is currently being worked on.

So......if I understand this correctly, this is for use in PT but I need something other PT to be able to authorize it.? Ouch.......I have the VSt to RTAS wrapper......but my only VST capable DAW is Samplitude. And that's for Windows. ATA is only for Mac. Hmmmmm, wait a minute........isnt Reaper free or really reasonable?

You know........when I stop to think about it, while you're doing something really good with the ATA and I'm sure as time progresses it will get even better........it really is pitiful that in 2008, PT still refuses to add delay compensation.................

.........and cd writing...........

.......and offline bounce.......

etc, etc, etc...............sorry, I digress


So.........go man! get this going and make all the money you can before they rip off your work and release the "Digi-ATA"............

[jitterybit]

And an over-the-counter mp3 bounce feature. We bought th MPT right after mac went intel, which at the time did not include the MP3 option.
I think wrappable VST rack(multi inserts) would be very cool. It doesn't seem as if that would be overly complicated.

[bent sounds]

Hi there,

I recently purchased the ATA software - well done on creating a very useful tool! After doing a whole lot of pinging tests manually, what I can't work out is how certain rtas plugins have zero latency, on audio tracks and busses. For example, I had one instance of URS saturation (VST wrapped RTAS) and 3 instances of Waves SSL G-Comp on an aux buss and the reported delay was 0 samples and the pinging test lined up perfectly when we printed a track as audio.

Could someone please explain?

Cheerio,
Ben

[recall]

If it works then don't sweat it. I don't understand it either!

[peeder]

Originally Posted by bent sounds

Hi there,

I recently purchased the ATA software - well done on creating a very useful tool! After doing a whole lot of pinging tests manually, what I can't work out is how certain rtas plugins have zero latency, on audio tracks and busses. For example, I had one instance of URS saturation (VST wrapped RTAS) and 3 instances of Waves SSL G-Comp on an aux buss and the reported delay was 0 samples and the pinging test lined up perfectly when we printed a track as audio.

Could someone please explain?

Some of the processors have the mandated minimum latency...I'm not sure it's actually zero but it's a minimum amount that PTLE in effect compensates for.

Someone who didn't know what they were talking about started claiming it had to do with the hardware buffer, but no, that's another issue that also is part of the latency of the system. The hardware buffer setting will not affect the latency of any host-based plugin.

[bent sounds]

Interesting - so in effect what you're saying is the PTLE has some degree of delay compensation, but is kinda random... I'm still baffled as to how four relatively intensive rtas plugins on an aux track could have zero latency. What I'm probably going to have to do is a pinging test on all of my plugins, marking down the latency for each.

My other question is this - I'm certain of the fact that some plugins (such as Auto-tune) have variable latency, eg if one note has to be tuned more dramatically than other notes in a phrase, it will be subjected to greater latency than notes that are tuned minimally. Can anyone verify this? If so, is there any kind of workaround (short of buying a HD rig)? When I use Auto-tune, I put it on the source material and record internally to another audio track phrase-by-phrase, then nudge it back manually to line it up with the source material. I'd love to not have to do this in PTLE!

Many thanks,
Ben