New Euphonix Controller now at Sweetwater

[six_wax]

Checked out their suite at NAMM today.

Integration with Logic & Nuendo looked pretty impressive...

However, ProTools control seemed a little kludgy, and nobody up there really seemed confident in talking about it. One rep kept saying, "It should work just like it does with Logic," when a feature wouldn't behave in ProTools, and would switch back to controlling Logic (they had both setup on the same workstation) to show me... :| ...Pretty much avoiding it...

My assessment was, "Hey, this thing would be absolutely killer with another DAW that supports EuCon, but with ProTools, it's merely on par with a Mackie Control or HUI (though clearly better looking)."

The larger format Sys5 console was also gorgeous, but functioned less well (so far) with PT. Shame, cause it's beauuuutiful.

The striking thing is that the way these things are laid out is very well done --Euphonix clearly 'gets' the UI thing far, far better than Digi does...

[Macaroni]

I saw it at NAMM today as well. Very impressive!

[Shaman]

Originally Posted by gearsux

command 8 has uses 1024 steps, like other digi control surfaces.

Thanks for this info.

This theoretical value is total irrelevant to me since I clearly hear every single step when doing low level fades .

Another point where theory and reality differ.

[dkatz42]

Originally Posted by Macaroni

Logic fully supports EuCon, and the Euphonix website says it's 250 times faster than MIDI, and 8 times the resolution, ie: instead 128 fader steps, there are 1024.

Ah, welcome to marketing and the art of sleight of hand. MIDI controllers have 128 steps. Mackie boxes communicate over MIDI. Therefore, Mackie boxes have 128 steps. Except that Mackie boxes have 1024 steps; they use Sysex messages with a proprietary format.

Not that I'm in love with the Mackie boxes or anything, but don't confuse the MCU stuff with generic MIDI controllers.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by theblotted

in PT, does the useage of HUI Protocol make a big difference when compared to Eucon Protocol?

is MIDI over Ethernet better than MIDI over USB?

i'm 99% sold up until this point. if it's not more responsive than MCU, then it looks great for all other DAWs... but not PT. the responsiveness is the biggest thing for me with these controllers (when versus an analog mixer).

ah hell, i'm going to NAMM tomorrow, i'll ask'em in person.

so i checked out the Euphonix line in person today, info i got:


-runs on PT using HUI Protocol, but since it's over Ethernet, there's more bandwidth; hence there's more messages sent. the guy said it's "basically an 'advanced' HUI Protocol."

-personally i felt the PT lag was a hair better than Logic lag for some odd reason.

-"touch the rotary knob and automatically pop up a plugin" function will come at the same time when the unit (MC Mix) is shipped.

-the unit itself looks sexier in person (could be the blue lights in the darkened room)

-a concern for MC Mix was that a Shift key (the two at bottom corner) was needed to be pressed for using Transport. this makes pressing record a chore, esp if you're a one-man band; because you need to stretch your hand or use both hands.... this is not the case. by hitting both Shift buttons at once, it'll goto "Shift Lock" mode, so you can hit Transport buttons (or any other small, blue-print letter controls) without holding Shift.

-Eucon for PT will most likely never come, due to Digi's propietary Protocol for their own controllers. hence Euphonix focused more on being able to control all other DAW's and App's. and then adding PT control via HUI due to nature of HUI not going away anytime soon.


that's what i got so far. i'm sold.

[Surfkat]

Euphonix has updated their website now with a detailed guided tour.

http://www.euphonix.com/artist/

Check out that compact Qwerty keyboard in front of the Control. Anybody know what that is?

[rghose]

Originally Posted by theblotted

so i checked out the Euphonix line in person today, info i got:


-runs on PT using HUI Protocol, but since it's over Ethernet, there's more bandwidth; hence there's more messages sent. the guy said it's "basically an 'advanced' HUI Protocol."

-personally i felt the PT lag was a hair better than Logic lag for some odd reason.

-"touch the rotary knob and automatically pop up a plugin" function will come at the same time when the unit (MC Mix) is shipped.

-the unit itself looks sexier in person (could be the blue lights in the darkened room)

-a concern for MC Mix was that a Shift key (the two at bottom corner) was needed to be pressed for using Transport. this makes pressing record a chore, esp if you're a one-man band; because you need to stretch your hand or use both hands.... this is not the case. by hitting both Shift buttons at once, it'll goto "Shift Lock" mode, so you can hit Transport buttons (or any other small, blue-print letter controls) without holding Shift.

-Eucon for PT will most likely never come, due to Digi's propietary Protocol for their own controllers. hence Euphonix focused more on being able to control all other DAW's and App's. and then adding PT control via HUI due to nature of HUI not going away anytime soon.


that's what i got so far. i'm sold.

Cool! Do all the features that they're talking about carry over to PT? Or do some of the features not work with HUI?

[rghose]

This was in another thread but I thought I'd post it here too.

YouTube - SOS NAMM: Euphonix

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by Surfkat

Check out that compact Qwerty keyboard in front of the Control. Anybody know what that is?

Thats the new apple keyboard

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by rghose

Cool! Do all the features that they're talking about carry over to PT? Or do some of the features not work with HUI?

not sure which features you're pertaining to, but the guy i talked to (Luke) IIRC said all features can be used in PT.

altho a lot of features that i was asking him to do on the spot were mostly ones that won't come out till end of the month (e.g., touching rotary knob opening a plugin).

i also agree with Tony Sheppard that the rotary knob feels very plastic-y and cheap. i wouldn't mind getting a 3rd party knob and swap it out. i wonder if there's any small Dakaware knobs...

[rghose]

Originally Posted by theblotted

not sure which features you're pertaining to, but the guy i talked to (Luke) IIRC said all features can be used in PT.

altho a lot of features that i was asking him to do on the spot were mostly ones that won't come out till end of the month (e.g., touching rotary knob opening a plugin).

i also agree with Tony Sheppard that the rotary knob feels very plastic-y and cheap. i wouldn't mind getting a 3rd party knob and swap it out. i wonder if there's any small Dakaware knobs...

I wasn't referring to anything specific. On that video, the rep goes through a bunch of features and I just wanted to know if they were all available in PT. It's good to know that they are!

So, the rotary knobs feel cheap. Not terribly surprised given the price point. How about the faders?

[jamwerks]

As always almost twice the price in Europe!

MC Control
$999 (690€) in the US.
($1960) 1350€ in Europe

Anybody explain this to me?

[zboy2854]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

As always almost twice the price in Europe!

MC Control
$999 (690€) in the US.
($1960) 1350€ in Europe

Anybody explain this to me?

Not sure where you're getting these prices. I think you've got the units confused.

It's $999 for the MC Mix, NOT the MC Control. It's $1500 for the MC Control.

[BrianT]

The thing with the rotary knobs is that they are Touch Sensitive. As in, activating a function (like writing Automation) just by touching the knob,, without having to change the value to get the app's attention. The rotaries in other controllers in this price range are not Touch Sensitive.

Don't overlook the value of that in actual use.

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by zboy2854

Not sure where you're getting these prices. I think you've got the units confused.

It's $999 for the MC Mix, NOT the MC Control. It's $1500 for the MC Control.

On the YOUtube presentation done at NAMM by a Euphonics guy (see above link) he states 999 and 699 for the prices so maybe he's talking "street prices".

[zvenx]

OR he may be speaking about Euro Dollars or English pounds.
I think it was for SOS? a British Magazine?
rsp

[jeronimo]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

On the YOUtube presentation done at NAMM by a Euphonics guy (see above link) he states 999 and 699 for the prices so maybe he's talking "street prices".

those are prices for UK, he said that because he's talking to SOS... got it?

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by jeronimo

those are prices for UK, he said that because he's talking to SOS... got it?

You're right, he was talking in pounds.

[F5D]

Nobody posted this yet? Sonic State - News (Video Item) WNAMM08: Euphonix Control Surface Video, Euphonix talk us through their EuCon protocol while mixing in Logic Pro

Basically the same things in this movie but another guy showing them. In fact at first I didn't like these controllers so much but after looking at the videos and pics these are hot! I guess later this year I have to invest.

[bongo]

The only down side I see is the width. 3 fader packs and the mix module is about 70". Pretty wide.

[JB872]

Besides the touch screen, is there anything that the MC Control can do that the MC mix can't? And did the Euphonix rep say that it's quite possible they'll implement a feature that allows plugin GUI's to show up on the touch screen?

[StudioTinPanAll]

the euphonix guy in the last video mentioned sonar support for pc ??

any word on pc support yet ?

and how about the eucon software for nuendo ?

do we have to buy a eucon licence for nuendo ?


thanks,

wim

[JB872]

Originally Posted by StudioTinPanAll

the euphonix guy in the last video mentioned sonar support for pc ??

any word on pc support yet ?

and how about the eucon software for nuendo ?

do we have to buy a eucon licence for nuendo ?


thanks,

wim

If you go to the sonar 7 forum, there's a link there that will take you to a page that has the EuCon Control Surface Setup application file for download.

[SlowCooker]

The MC Control offers a huge range of features from the Touch Screens from track selection, rec arming, mute, solo, etc.

The idea of custumizable touch screen buttons is great, especially with the possibility of creating strings of key-commands (macros).... the rep at NAMM also said there was an on-screen surround panner.

The MC Control also offers a Control Room nob that works with Studio Monitor Express (Euphonix software monitoring solution) or with Maestro (Apogee) or for use with the Control Room device in Nuendo.

MC Control also has the Wheel which can be used for Jog, Scrub, Shuttle as well as application specific controls like Zoom horz/vert or even for clip/region editing (Nuendo, ProTools, Cubase)...

Also has dedicated transport controls.

[Orren]

Originally Posted by StudioTinPanAll

the euphonix guy in the last video mentioned sonar support for pc ?? any word on pc support yet ?

Right now, I believe the MC Artist drivers for the Mac are finished. I think there Euphonix will need to deliver PC drivers, but they're coming.

FWIW, the Cakewalk booth had Sonar running on one of their workstations being controlled by the Euphonix MC Pro, so clearly Cakewalk and Euphonix are working together on this.

Of course, Sonar was running on a Mac Pro 8-core in Boot Camp mode, and displaying on two Apple 30" cinema displays...

Orren

[SnakeCained]

I am confused

How can it be compatible with Sonar if it does not work with a PC?

Seems odd.

[jeronimo]

Originally Posted by SnakeCained

I am confused

How can it be compatible with Sonar if it does not work with a PC?

Seems odd.

They had a MC PRO, not one of the new ones...

[alexfoinc]

Yes it makes a huge difference. The biggest being that MIDI over ethernet is nice but having your own protocol over ethernet is usually better (EuCon does this as does [plug] ProRemote).

MIDI over USB is nice too but MIDI over Ethernet can be extremely fast (theoretically: 1000MBits/sec).

So something like EuCon over 100MBit ethernet or ProRemote protocol over 802.11b/g/n would be lightning fast and very low latency. If the Euphonix stuff does gigabit ethernet it would be even faster and a fatter pipe! Even at 100Mbits/s you would notice absolutely no latency when writing fader automation via the control surface.

[Another thing that makes EuCon WAY better than HUI is the fader and meter resolution (and channel count) is greatly increased. I think the limit is 255 channels on EuCon vs. 8 on HUI. Meter resolution with the HUI is 10 steps and with EuCon I think it's 256.] Fader resolution is greater than 10 bits with EuCon as well.

I checked out the Euphonix stuff at NAMM it was really nice and I'm quite biased.

alex

Originally Posted by theblotted

in PT, does the useage of HUI Protocol make a big difference when compared to Eucon Protocol?

is MIDI over Ethernet better than MIDI over USB?

i'm 99% sold up until this point. if it's not more responsive than MCU, then it looks great for all other DAWs... but not PT. the responsiveness is the biggest thing for me with these controllers (when versus an analog mixer).

ah hell, i'm going to NAMM tomorrow, i'll ask'em in person.

[BrianT]

Originally Posted by dkatz42

Except that Mackie boxes have 1024 steps; they use Sysex messages with a proprietary format.

Except that, for an MCU connected via MIDI, the incredibly slow speed means that it will take nearly 1 full second to transmit those 1024 steps. If you actually implemented that full 1024 scale all the time, pushing multiple faders would overload the MIDI bus beyond comprehension.

So I think the market-speak is more from Mackie's side. Specifying data rate capabilities that MIDI cannot possibly hope to sustain, in an attempt to compensate for the inherent limitations of an ancient protocol, is a definite case of hype.

MIDI values were limited for a reason. Slow transfer.

[jindrich]

new video of the mc mix at Mix magazine:

Video


the video is IMO very bad shot (supringsingly if it was made to be included into the Mix website, but you know amateurism is getting everywhere), but it might give you some more info about what those revolutionary controllers can do.