New Euphonix Controller now at Sweetwater

[vixapphire]

i currently have a large and very functional emagic/mackie logic control + c4 control surface running logic.

what is the advantage of this euphonix line over the system i currently own, with some specific examples, if possible. saying EuCon provides "way more indepth control over the DAW" sounds like a bit of a stretch without being somewhat more specific, since a mackie system with the C4 is a seriously capable controller for logic; what areas and what depths are we talking about?

at present, to me this new Euphonix line looks less well than the mackie since it has so many multi-function buttons and apparently few dedicated buttons vis the mackie. the non-touchscreen box apparently has the transport controls on the solo/mute buttons of the rightmost channels, for instance. this is a supposed advantage over the mackie how, exactly?

[Mile-High]

Originally Posted by pixelhead

I may be looking at an System 5-MC for the future. It is pricey but not as bad as I thought. The base system is in the D-Command price with a lot more functionality and no marriage to software.

How much is that approx?

[jdunn]

Originally Posted by pixelhead

I have to say I am very impressed with Euphonix as a company.

I took a Pro Tools class years ago from a guy who had a console that Euphonix had loaned him. It was a CS2000 or something, I don't remember. I believe they loaned it to him because he taught a lot of students from Brazil and other parts of South America, and they wanted to sell consoles in that part of the world.

So anyway, this guy was at the AES show, talking to some friends of his who worked at SSL. One of the guys from Euphonix literally pulled him aside and said "I don't ever want to see you talking to them again".

I found that pretty hilarious myself. Euphonix has some good products, but at least one person who used to work for them is, uh... rather lacking in proper etiquette. I have no idea if he still works there.

Then there's the story about how Jim Williams was asked to leave their display room at another AES show because he was highly critical of all the T Fets used in their analog circuitry. Oh well, I can kinda understand that one. You're showing your console and somebody says "Man, this thing must sound like sh!t".

[musikwerks]

Vix, I think the resolution will increase considerably via the Eucon Protocol. It talks directly to Logic, not via the HUI protocol. Other more knowledgable peeps might be able to answer you a little more in depth though. But, I would also add, if it's working for you now then there might not be any need to change at all. For me, I have been looking for a control surface solution for a while... looking at Mackie, JL Cooper and even Yamaha DM1000/02R 96 territory

The fact that the Euphonix stuff will switch happily between FCP and Logic as well as Tools is fantastic as my rig runs all three. On top of that the price is good. But even more than that is the heritage the Euphonix name brings as well as the possibilities it holds for the future. Look at how Apogee has integrated the Eucon protocol into it's new range of Maestro controllable hardware. It's only just begun.

[needlz]

I gotta say that this sounds like a great product especially if they have a reasonably inexpensive add-on solution for handling control room monitoring.

[outcastrising]

Pixelhead,

The "detailed" dimensions I got from Euphonix later today when I called them is for the MC Control. The dimensions are 16.8" wide x 9.5"deep x 1.2" tall. This directly is in contrast to the dimensions you got? I am just trying to find out if I was told rubbish LOL
He did say its almost as thin as a regular Mac Keyboard!
I put my preorder in today!

[Geetar]

Originally Posted by jdunn

Then there's the story about how Jim Williams was asked to leave their display room at another AES show because he was highly critical of all the T Fets used in their analog circuitry. Oh well, I can kinda understand that one. You're showing your console and somebody says "Man, this thing must sound like sh!t".

I've seen plenty of evidence of JW dissing gear over the years on the basis of what components they're built from, without any regard for the world-class results that can be got on said gear by someone with ears and talent. John Paul Jones for example managed to wring useable results over many years from a bunch of these (above-mentioned) components in his CS 2000...... and since a friend of mine built and still maintains his studio, I've had the opportunity to check this out at the mix position on a load of JPJ's tracking efforts.

Experience trumps conjecture every time. Most of us know this by now, having been ripped a new one every time we talk about what we guess, rather than know, on these boards; but I guess some folk never learned this lesson.

To be kind, Williams seems like a strictly linear thinker in an often non-linear profession.

[musikwerks]

I put my preorder in today!

Ditto.

[pixelhead]

Originally Posted by outcastrising

Pixelhead,

The "detailed" dimensions I got from Euphonix later today when I called them is for the MC Control. The dimensions are 16.8" wide x 9.5"deep x 1.2" tall. This directly is in contrast to the dimensions you got? I am just trying to find out if I was told rubbish LOL
He did say its almost as thin as a regular Mac Keyboard!
I put my preorder in today!

Not Sure. I talked to Luke at Euphonix and thats what he told me. Guess we will have to wait and see when the release a brochure.

[jdunn]

Originally Posted by Geetar

To be kind, Williams seems like a strictly linear thinker in an often non-linear profession.

To an extent I agree with you... anything with a 5532 or TLO72 op amp is garbage, etc... but he is a musician and does use his ears quite a bit. I think he prefers a cleaner sound than a lot of people though. I've never heard him say "That sounds too clean". Frank Zappa (his wife actually) had him un-mod a strat for that very reason. I wouldn't pigeonhole JW as a "strictly linear thinker" however, he's much too smart for that. We're talking genius level IQ here.

Sorry for drifting off topic, I just thought the first story was especially comical. Oh, and I never pre-order anything digital. It often sets you up for 6 months to a year of disappointment. I wait until it's actually ready to ship that day before giving anyone a dime. Too many times I've been told "I'll be shipping it next week" only to wait a year.

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by musikwerks

Vix, I think the resolution will increase considerably via the Eucon Protocol. It talks directly to Logic, not via the HUI protocol. Other more knowledgable peeps might be able to answer you a little more in depth though. But, I would also add, if it's working for you now then there might not be any need to change at all. For me, I have been looking for a control surface solution for a while... looking at Mackie, JL Cooper and even Yamaha DM1000/02R 96 territory

The fact that the Euphonix stuff will switch happily between FCP and Logic as well as Tools is fantastic as my rig runs all three. On top of that the price is good. But even more than that is the heritage the Euphonix name brings as well as the possibilities it holds for the future. Look at how Apogee has integrated the Eucon protocol into it's new range of Maestro controllable hardware. It's only just begun.

I can see the benefit if you're running multiple platforms that it will control, but for me that's not the case; I'm a Logic-only guy.

Incidentally, the MCU and its identical-but-otherwise-labeled predecessor, the "emagic Logic Control" also speaks directly to Logic. It does not use the HUI protocol to speak with Logic, as it was developed jointly between Emagic and Mackie. There's also a fader resolution setting iirc in Logic, but how this works with the transmission of fader data via midi is unclear.

[trancekid]

the eucon protokol works with ethernet which should be much faster than mackies midi connection.

with the mackie I always felt like there is too much latency, like turning a knob on it and "a little bit later" the plug-in will react. no real hardware feeling.

[deuc647]

I also want to know the price of the s5 fusion. looks really dope!

[rapfreak]

I'm really waiting to see pictures of the untis connected together without the side panels. Anyone know if they connect directly or they just line up together nicely?

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by trancekid

the eucon protokol works with ethernet which should be much faster than mackies midi connection.

with the mackie I always felt like there is too much latency, like turning a knob on it and "a little bit later" the plug-in will react. no real hardware feeling.

i haven't had that issue in my rig.

i like the way these units resemble my NI Kore device.

[jindrich]

To all of you wondering what does this thing offer that other similar HUI/DAW controllers cannot, just go to the euphonix website and watch the video of the "MC".

This new euphonix product is a revolution. It brings ICON features to any DAW (and it's DAW agnostic and can control many of them at the same time), but at a FRACTION of the price.

You have to experience the EuCon protocol in person to realize how ahead of everything it is.


they're gonna sell a billion of these things.

[Mikkel Nielsen]

Originally Posted by deuc647

I also want to know the price of the s5 fusion. looks really dope!

From Proaudioreview:

Euphonix S5 Fusion

Features: 224 x 168 paths at 48 kHz; DF66 DSP SuperCore engine with 38 channels, scaleable to over 100; expandable System 5 surface design with 24 multi-format faders, 8 touch-sensitive knobs per channel; eMix (with optional joystick); TFT multi-format metering; Euphonix converter, digital surround monitoring; EuCon Hybrid protocol for controlling up to five DAW workstations. Price: Starts at $150,000.

Mikkel

[Killahurts]

"I also want to know the price of the s5 fusion. looks really dope!"

Originally Posted by Pindebraende

Price: Starts at $150,000.

Yer gonna need some dope after you drop that kind of coin...

[Killahurts]

Oh yeah, the dimensions:

MCcontrol
20" x 9.5" x 1.2"
5.5 lbs

MCMix
16.8" x 9.5" x 1.2"
4.8 lbs

[mwagener]

Anybody have any info if the faders will work with the MC controller? I use the MC and I am very happy with it. If the new small fader packs would work in a setup with the MC controller it would make my year (because I could afford a vacation instead of buying the 5MC fader packs).

I guess I'll have to wait until NAMM in a couple of weeks to find out.

[deuc647]

Originally Posted by Killahurts

"I also want to know the price of the s5 fusion. looks really dope!"




Yer gonna need some dope after you drop that kind of coin...

LMAO!!! For 150K, i could buy a d-command, PTHD7, all the outboard i ever needed and some white widow

[Killahurts]

Originally Posted by mwagener

Anybody have any info if the faders will work with the MC controller? I use the MC and I am very happy with it. If the new small fader packs would work in a setup with the MC controller it would make my year (because I could afford a vacation instead of buying the 5MC fader packs).

I guess I'll have to wait until NAMM in a couple of weeks to find out.

Michael, I don't think they do. After talking to someone yesterday whose been trained in these, he doesn't think so either - it's what you and I talked about before, Euphonix wanting to keep classes of products separate.. but what a separation!

For your sake, I really hope I end up being wrong about this...

[funkcity]

Studio Monitor Express= is a lighter version of the Euphonix System 5 Studio monitor software (nothing to do with Eucon)

The MC will only support one cpu (one mac or one pc) as opposed to the 20K studio version which will support many at the same time.

I cannot imagine that there will be any lEucon icense cost as this is designed for the Guitar Center/Sweetwater/West LA Mx customer.... It would ruin the whole concept!

None of the remote controllers out there have this user-configurable horsepower period at this price point!

The C24 is another product. YAMAHA who owns Steinberg should build this one!
Their O2R-96 and there DM2000 are their C24-type products right now.

4 tiers if you will:
* Basic usb/firewire controller A/D. D/A
* New Eu MC mix/control (Use you I/O)
C24 type (yes it would be nice as the DM2000 contains lots of functionality...but at $20K loses inclusion in this slot)
* Full tilt MC Controller with System 5 fader paks and a complete smorgasboard of options

So...C24-type slot product is needed but that is NOT this product!

[indie]

guys,
will this protocol access hui for PT? won't there be lag time/not as responsive faders etc as a PT control surface?

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by funkcity

Studio Monitor Express= is a lighter version of the Euphonix System 5 Studio monitor software (nothing to do with Eucon)

The MC will only support one cpu (one mac or one pc) as opposed to the 20K studio version which will support many at the same time.

I cannot imagine that there will be any lEucon icense cost as this is designed for the Guitar Center/Sweetwater/West LA Mx customer.... It would ruin the whole concept!

None of the remote controllers out there have this user-configurable horsepower period at this price point!

The C24 is another product. YAMAHA who owns Steinberg should build this one!
Their O2R-96 and there DM2000 are their C24-type products right now.

4 tiers if you will:
* Basic usb/firewire controller A/D. D/A
* New Eu MC mix/control (Use you I/O)
C24 type (yes it would be nice as the DM2000 contains lots of functionality...but at $20K loses inclusion in this slot)
* Full tilt MC Controller with System 5 fader paks and a complete smorgasboard of options

So...C24-type slot product is needed but that is NOT this product!

so if this thing's OS has "nothing to do with EuCon", is it safe to say that most of the talk about how "in-depth" and beyond belief the DAW capabilities of these little faderboxes are is fanboy panting at the inner thigh of Euphonix, and not representative of reality?

from what it sounds like, this thing is like one of those Tascam faderboxes, plus scribble strips. even worse, it has fewer dedicated buttons than its competitors. in other words, if it's what you say it is, then

oh well, i like my logic control rig well enough! (would be nice if it had a monitor section and some sort of keyboard integration a la the procontrol "edit-pak", though).

[gsqd]

Originally Posted by mwagener

Anybody have any info if the faders will work with the MC controller? I use the MC and I am very happy with it. If the new small fader packs would work in a setup with the MC controller it would make my year (because I could afford a vacation instead of buying the 5MC fader packs).

I guess I'll have to wait until NAMM in a couple of weeks to find out.

Michael. I'm thinking exactly the same thing. Maybe we should gang up on them at NAMM to find out?!?

I'm either getting an iD, Genesys or the Euphonix for my mix room. It's going to be an interesting show!

<GM>

[zvenx]

those who are already using Eucon. From what I think I understand, it ethernet cables?
Can it be put in a switch or do you generally add a second NIC to your computer and use it just for Eucon?
thanks in advance.
rsp

[funkcity]

Originally Posted by vixapphire

so if this thing's OS has "nothing to do with EuCon", is it safe to say that most of the talk about how "in-depth" and beyond belief the DAW capabilities of these little faderboxes are is fanboy panting at the inner thigh of Euphonix, and not representative of reality?

from what it sounds like, this thing is like one of those Tascam faderboxes, plus scribble strips. even worse, it has fewer dedicated buttons than its competitors. in other words, if it's what you say it is, then

oh well, i like my logic control rig well enough! (would be nice if it had a monitor section and some sort of keyboard integration a la the procontrol "edit-pak", though).

The programmability and the experience with the larger more-expensive EuCon-based products come along for the ride. There will be lots happening on the TFT screen that you just cannot do or get to with the Mackie/Tascam/M-Audio solutions.

Grim up gsqd. Don't be so negative. Every product has things you might want.

After doing a live record gig this past weekend with a Yamaha DM2K MADI and a Nuendo system this past weekend, (and I'm a post engineer) I could see lots of things that needed changing in both camps.

[SlowCooker]

1. These units are Ethernet and to run multiple units and a second workstation, they will all need to be connected to a common network... a DHCP Router per say. This is how the S5MC systems are connected.

2. Studio Monitor Express is a software monitoring utility that connects to your audio card of choice.

3. Apogee and Euphonix teamed up to provide EuCon control of Maestro - so there is your Monitoring solution...

4. EuCon compared to MIDI/HUI is like comparing a BMW to a Pinto...sure they both get you from point A to B... we all know that MIDI is outdated as a base for a control protocol.

EuCon can support upto 65,536 values on a single knob depending on the parameter. Compared to 128 using MCU I think you can begin to see the difference in power!!!

[SlowCooker]

ooops double post - sorry