Black Lion Audio M-Audio FW1814 Mod

[jimj166]

Hi,
We wanted to let everyone know that we have just developed a mod for the FW1814 unit.

When approaching the FW1814, we wanted first of all to clean up the quality of the audio signal as it heads into and comes out of the conversion process. We achieved this by using an amplifier with roughly half the noise, twenty times the bandwidth, and forty times the speed of the existing circuit. By doing this, we not only reduce noise, we improve the ability of the circuit to provide a clean, detailed signal.

The second area we wanted to address is, of course, the internal clock. We knew from our experiments with clock circuitry and propagation that we would need some way to limit oscillator jitter and noise down to the theoretical minimum. Instead of using a typical logic IC to handle clock signal shaping, we began to experiment with using discrete class-A circuitry, and were pleasantly surprised at the end results. Why on earth would we want to use something like this for a digital circuit? Because although the clock controls aspects of the digital circuitry, it is actually an analog signal, which means it’s subject to the much of the same rules as an analog audio signal. And since logic IC’s are fairly noisy in comparison to our discrete circuit, they have the capability to add to the problem. Quite simply put, we feel that this clock will far outperform any high-end external wordclock currently available—period, and at a fraction of the cost!

Have a look at our site for more information.
http://www.blacklionaudio.com/maudio_FW1814.html

[AlexLakis]

Hey, Jim! Will you be offering this mod for the FW410 as well?

[siddhu]

Why did you stop doing the mod on MOTU's Ultralight?

[Coyoteous]

This great, I'll probably be booking mine soon!

From another source:

"The FW1814 has AKM AK5385a for the channel 1 & 2 A/D @ up to 192Khz."

Input channels 3-8 are AK5381, as you state on the page.

Also, you say "The FW1814 is M-Audio’s mid-level firewire interface."

Isn't it their top of the line? I suppose it's barely mid-level compared to other brands. I've been doing some surprisingly (to me) good location recordings with the 1814, a couple of stock Oktava MK-012's and a 12" Power Book.

Anyway, this is very welcome - now, can you guys write a stable driver for it?

Thanks, Jim!

[thermos]

Thats some nice words about that clock. When is the standalone coming?

[celticrogues]

YAY!!!! THANK YOU!!!

-MIke

[structuredloud]

My savior! Maybe somebody will buy my 1814 now.

[Ibvee]

I don't want to be impolite in any way, but I think there are some other points which will even make more sense with this unit.
The things I dislike about it mostly is: the lack of gain in the pre's and the lack of a hardware amplifier for the headphone outputs. But hey, maybe I'm the only one...

cheers

[Matt Fudge]

Originally Posted by jimj166

Quite simply put, we feel that this clock will far outperform any high-end external wordclock currently available—period, and at a fraction of the cost!

Have a look at our site for more information.
http://www.blacklionaudio.com/maudio_FW1814.html

So am I understanding you right that this upgrade would make my 1814 sound better than if I bought an Apogee Big Ben for it or any other high end word clock? Would it also let the 1814 act as a high quality master clock with the same quality?

[shanghaitang]

I heard they stopped modding the clocks in the Motu units. What gives?

[jeronimo]

They should upgrade the clock on the Lightbridge also!

[Coyoteous]

Originally Posted by Ibvee

I don't want to be impolite in any way, but I think there are some other points which will even make more sense with this unit.
The things I dislike about it mostly is: the lack of gain in the pre's and the lack of a hardware amplifier for the headphone outputs. But hey, maybe I'm the only one...

cheers

The pre's sound pretty good - a lot better than I thought they would. They've seemed to have enough gain for stock Oktava MK-012's on medium to loud sources. The specs say they have 40 dB of adjustable gain for maximum of 60 dB - not too sure about this.

While the headphone amps sound pretty good, they are a joke power-wise with 600 ohm AKG 240M's. I thought they were broken the first (and second) time I tried to monitor in the same room with the source.

My main complaints are still that you can't use both types of digital I/O at the same time like you can on the 001/002, so it is really never 18X14, and the Mac driver stability - don't know about the PC. I'm using the latest now with 10.4.9, but it still does some funny things with WaveBurner and I still can't get Digital Performer to sync to a digital input.

I use the 1814 with an RME ADI-2, except for location recording. So, I'm locked out of the ADAT I/O when I do that and can't use the RME clock in DP. It was either the 1814 or an 002, since I need PT compat. - bus power, DSP mixing, size and S/MUX tipped the bucket at M-audio.

Having better analog sonics and clock would be nice, but it could also be "good money after bad." And no, you're not the only one - there are at least two of us!

[Ibvee]

It's not really the sound of the pre's, really the lack of gain. For some kind of radio thing I used a Beyer M201 for a close voice, and had to crank it up almost all the way. So my thought: hey, maybe it will work better with a condenser, because they have a amplifier in a microphone. SE Z5600a mkII had to crank it up again, with a normal voice. Only with some loud percussion it was ok. Maybe I used the wrong microphones.

Besides the lack of power from the headphone outputs, I find it to be really annoying that they're software controllers. And even more that they sometimes stop working when using a not so very well supported DAW program, same as with the assignable knob.
Who wants a software controlled headphone output

No way I'm going to have this thing modified. It's not worth it, even after that. I'll just wait till I can't bear it anymore, and then I buy a Fireface.

[celticrogues]

Originally Posted by Ibvee

Besides the lack of power from the headphone outputs, I find it to be really annoying that they're software controllers. And even more that they sometimes stop working when using a not so very well supported DAW program, same as with the assignable knob.
Who wants a software controlled headphone output

I agree here! Any chance of a mod for this?

cheers!
-Mike

[Coyoteous]

I hear ya about the rotary encoders and the gain - don't think we're getting 60 dB. If you don't need ProTools, there seem to be a lot better interface options than M-Audio and Digidesign. I need PT, Logic and now, DP for work I do and collaboration - probably Live, before too long.

I may go the ProFire LightBridge route, but my 1814 experiences have slowed me down on taking that jump. What I really want is an interface that will record stand-alone (flash, etc.) and then work as a conventional interface when connected to a computer - but that doesn't exist (yet).

I may end up geting a MOTU Traveler, since it will (I hope) play nice with DP and it can be used as a standalone mixer, router and format coversion box. So, I should be able to use it with the 1814 via lightpipe to access some of it's digital and analog I/O. Since it has AES and S/PDIF, I should be able to have two sets of stereo digial I/O on the 1814.

The Traveler doesn't do SRC, though and $850 is kind of steep to get something I thought the 1814 would do in the first place. But, I have more than one reason for getting one, now. If the Traveler would record stand-alone, I'd probably be all over it. Then, would I do the Black Lion mods for one or both? Yikes!

[theblotted]

the mod idea is great and all...

but if the Mac drivers are shoddy, what's the use? it's giving me kernel panic's left and right, when used with Fireface. i had to revert back to FW driver 1.7.4, and it's still not "rock solid" by any means.

after 3 months of corresponding, the doods @ M-Audio pushes it as a PT problem; vice versa.

i'm even using Gotham WC cable from Redco, and terminated the ends. WC still doesn't sync 100% everytime.

just a bigass dongle for PT. that sucks donkey ****.

never used the preamps, but you guys w/ low preamp gain: have you double-checked your cables?

[Coyoteous]

- cables okay here, newish Neutrik/Canare Star Quads (Bayou Cables). I'll try to figure some way to measure the gain.

Well, at least I'm not having kernel panics, but I haven't ever used Word Clock with it. Have you tried sync'ing to a digital in? This works okay for me with the ADI-2 (no WC) w/ ADAT, coax and TOS s/pdif - except with Digital Performer! (dang it)

I've tried all the different drivers and stuck on the new one for now, but I might go back to 1.7.2 (I think) - since it seems to make some of my WaveBurner probems go away.

I'm on a 12" G4 1.5 GHz PowerBook, BTW - what are you on? Intel?

- good luck!

[structuredloud]

Originally Posted by Ibvee

I don't want to be impolite in any way, but I think there are some other points which will even make more sense with this unit.
The things I dislike about it mostly is: the lack of gain in the pre's and the lack of a hardware amplifier for the headphone outputs. But hey, maybe I'm the only one...

cheers

My two main complaints as well.

[Gear Tramp]

No fun! No fun, Dr. Jones!

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by Coyoteous

- cables okay here, newish Neutrik/Canare Star Quads (Bayou Cables). I'll try to figure some way to measure the gain.

Well, at least I'm not having kernel panics, but I haven't ever used Word Clock with it. Have you tried sync'ing to a digital in? This works okay for me with the ADI-2 (no WC) w/ ADAT, coax and TOS s/pdif - except with Digital Performer! (dang it)

I've tried all the different drivers and stuck on the new one for now, but I might go back to 1.7.2 (I think) - since it seems to make some of my WaveBurner probems go away.

I'm on a 12" G4 1.5 GHz PowerBook, BTW - what are you on? Intel?

- good luck!

sure am, MacPro 3GHz. if WC can't even sync properly, i doubt digital in will improve anything.. in fact, digital in was what i was using before, and got the WC in hope that it'll alleviate the sync problem.

the kernel panic's are not sync related, but just a terrible driver.