What was that Yamaha Synth with the Light up Touch Sensetive Matrix called??

[3rd Floor]

I don't know if this has been posted before but.

The future of music: The 'Tenori-On'..
check it out:

http://www.global.yamaha.com/design/tenori-on/

Kind of like the monome, but a full fledged instrument in its right!

The sounds are incredible and it looks like a lot of fun to compose with!

Theres a few videos on youtube if anyones interested..


http://www.youtube.com/w/Toshio-Iwai...z4&search=japn

[NathanEldred]

Anyone ever used one of these?

[RecAcoustic]

LMFAO, Nathan.

I was thinking it.

You followed through and posted it.

[ben_allison]

Yeah, it's cheezy. It probably won't do well. But at least it's something different!

Where would we be without "different?"

[chriscoleman]

Originally Posted by ben_allison

Where would we be without "different?"

Clear Channel?

[prismtheory]

I don't want to sound like a dork or anything.

but I kinda want one.

-C

[Benmrx]

I could swear I've seen steve drozd of the flaming lips using one. If not, he needs to get one. That seems like a perfect fit for a lips show

[t_d]

i've actually had the pleasure of using one of these during the development stage... and they're really cool, if you're into electronic music.

they not only have a built in sound engine, but can also process audio files and have some really elegant interface elements.

not for everyone, of course, but it's certainly right my alley

[ben_allison]

I'm a guitarist/drummer, and as such, love the earthiness and substance of acoustic instruments. It is irreplacable.

But we've been using wood and strings for 100's of years. New ways of thinking about inspired sounds creation are overdue (most of our electronic instruments just try to mimic acoustic instruments anyway -- let's go forward).

[3rd Floor]

It just looks like it would be alot of fun to play around with. I know it's not for everybody but I think I want one. Depending on the price

[Aiyn Zahav]

Hi guys, maybe you saw it, they made some aswome video's showcasing it

It was this Gray unit with a touch sensitive sort of Matrix, which lit up when you touch a part of it, and then by touching and lighting up the squares you made patterns and then they became animated, it was awsome the guy made some sound and then made it bounce or something, ahh sorry its hard to describe someone will know what i mean right?

Anyways, im quite interested to look into it some more, so if any one has info, Name, did they ever release it? If so whats its price? Is there a thread on here where all this kind of stuff is compiled? Example Reactable is another really cool and promising device, And that Monolith Keyboard looks good too, it should all be in one thread "FutureSynth" or something!

Okay Thanks guys

[licopin]

A shot in the dark -- it wasn't Yamaha, but could you possibly be referring to the Con Brio synthesizer?

[Aiyn Zahav]

Oh no no way its nothing remotely like that, I say its a synth its not though in the way we think of synths with Osc & filters etc, more like an onboard sample player, its bascially the size of a laptop computer, and the only UI it has is this grid of touch sensitive lights. It was made relitively recent too.

Im gonnaa do some more searching , ill try you-Tube
#

Cheers for chiming in though!

[Aiyn Zahav]

Okay i found it, it was the Tenori-On.

Looks like so much fun

http://createdigitalmusic.com/tag/leds/ i found it here there some other cool stuff

and on You tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRXEx-uQR7E

Its pretty cool at about 4:30 into it he stops talking and composes a cool song, Its looks difficult to actually know what your doing on it but thats probably just because ive never used one.

[Aiyn Zahav]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a9dO...elated&search=

Now this looks MAD!

[Jules]

YouTube - Toshio Iwai en Sonar 2006

[horseface]

I picked on of these up from the UK and it arrived on Monday. I'm possibly the only person in Yankland with one.

It's a lot of fun and I'm treating it more as a toy than as a serious tool, although I have coaxed some rather special (albeit plinky plonk IDM) sounding grooves out of the thing.

The sounds are very blippy, suited to IDM.

The drums are pure shite.

It's addictive, like a good video game.

The lights look cool.

It's nicely built. The aluminum frame is nice and solid. The batteries make it feel heavy and expensive (And it is!)

People want to touch the unit the moment they see it.

Lack of swing grooves is a bit of a disappointment - The thing feels very stiff as far as timing goes.

32 steps in the sequencer would have been nicer than the 16 it has, although you can change block patterns on the fly (But that requires that you do it manually, so you can't do any solos as you do this)

I haven't put any of my own samples in there yet, but I feel it will become a different beast once I have some decent drums in there.

Looks good on the coffee table.

[Motion]

I have one here and is for me an amazing instrument in it's own right...like drum machines or samplers defined certain stylistic ways with their limitations I think the Tenori-on will be distinctive enough in it's own limited ways over time...in saying that it is a bit contradictory because very sophisticated and elaborate stuff can be had.But it's essence of simplicity without overwhelming the novice or tech fearful remains.Of course if you already have musical skills then you will be off like a rocket very quickly.

I think the deliberate? choice of limitations in particular with the internal sound generation is a double edged sword in some ways (like having no synth/sampler parameter/accessability) but the Tenori-on encompasses most of the vital musical controls such as transposition, various scales, octave shifting, volume changes, pan (sadly not available from direct access on the grid but fixed and set by you within the internal menus for each part, being able to record your pans live is very useful, I can't see any other way to access them and you can't get to them in the menu if you are recording as you are then locked out of the menus at this point, you can of course accesss them in realtime play and use the jog wheel) note length, loop points and tempo division (loop speed) quantize on/off in solo layer.

No programmable aftertouch or swing...bah! but at least you can record your solos unquantised against the other parts if you want to as mentioned, in addition you can also record or in realtime play inject a bit of tempo variation for a bit more feel and nuance which counters the swing inadequacies to a degree, the push mode also by it's nature introduces sustained volume swells so this adds a bit more life and movement to the pot, combined with odd loop lengths with 16 blocks of 16X16 grids!! you can fly around improvising in the layers copying, cutting, pasting layers and whole blocks whilst all being recorded in realtime for faithful playback without a glitch.This is pretty spectacular and affords considerable dimension and variation to be achieved in your pieces.

Unfortunately the only downside to this is no timed looping overdub/record mode as such so you have to stop to playback or otherwise manually play on and switch blocks/layers etc if you want to continue with your inventions.Also along with no overdub options you also can't jam with your recorded pieces on playback...that's a serious bummer!, you can of course load comprehensive material in as blocks and create new recordings or live jams which appeases somewhat.It also has reverb and chorus on board...sadly no delay fx!That's one I wish was in there.Samples are extremely limited ie 1 second with modifiable gate length down to 50msecs unfortunately no other functions available not even transposition or octave shifting...boo!) but it will load 8 bit samples for lo-fi goodness (16 bit is supported) and sounds fantastic once you start buggering around....a lot of the fun is in the fixed modes which create some very interesting noises indeed.

There is much much more however in the interactive experience but most importantly the Tenori-on will allow you to record and playback up to 1000 moves ie anything you touch, press, move, the lot basically.(all in about 40k for easy transfer/email, with a 2 gig SD you do the math, the Tenori will also hold internally 3 sample sets of 16 samples, plus loads more on the SD but these take a good few minutes to load, but at least you can store up to 48 samples onboard and will remain after power down) Yamaha have also really done their homework, it's a beautifully crafted machine and the timing is rock solid...it's a real scream syncing to external tempos and never misses a beat even with crazy alternating tempi.If you really want to you can trigger your soft synths or hardware simultaneously with/without the internal sounds over midi (each layer in the Tenori outputs a fixed midi channel respectively for the 16 parts) and use your hosts automation/cc's for extra manipulation.

For me personally I would have really like to have seen the ability to output the Tenori's patterns/triggers to other grids/modes within the Tenori-on with respect to mod type pattern effects (stuff like feeding notes to other patterns and changing gate/transposition etc) and also to the internal sound parameters for triggering/modulation etc but none are accessible/exist as it is purely a sound ROM (Yamaha's AWM2) according to the big Y, there may well have been design limitations or such like that prevented them from doing so....shame really as I think it would have been a great feature and allow some quite extraordinary sonic gymnastics, therefor no access to editing of any synth parameters and no extra fun with sequencing of the usual suspects like filter cutoff and the rest...yer barred!....but who cares when it's as good as it already is. (I would have personally liked to have had the choice, but how much more complexity, cost, although the great thing with these tools if you did have the choice is just don't go there if you don't want to if you find it's a bit more complex and feel that it would hinder your productivity, my view anyway) Maybe they will release in the future a "Hardcore Pro" version if it goes into production and there is a market for the Tenori, I really hope so.

Can I also just mention that Toshio Iwai has been imho progressing toward this point and conclusion (with the belief and backing from Yamaha of course, the Tenori's existence is not a market ploy or attempt to get in on the game with alternative or innovative controllers/musical instruments but a coincidental occurence that has been maturing for a big part of Toshio's life and it's good timing if I don't mind saying so given the presence of the Monome, Lemur and such like, more choice is a good thing) that manifests itself in the realisation of the Tenori-on for over 20 years.His sound and visual installations from years ago clearly show what can best be described and observed albeit with a degree of interpretation and speculation as experiences and experimentation in sound and art that are reflective of the concepts that have led him to certain decisions and design elements that contribute to what the Tenori-on is and is not...the Tenori-on is as much a reflection and manifestation of his musical identity, personal discoveries and learning related to his own musical sensibility and expression and probably much more eg the influence of video games and sound in his own life.The Tenori-on appears to be a culmination of his own personal rationalisation of what constitutes and captures the creative musical process.

Aside from being a serious live improvisational instrument, there's a child like charm that the Tenori-on also exudes (which I think is misinterpreted on occasions and perhaps leads to some people prejudging the Tenori-on and dismissing it as a toy, I can see why they may think this, because in a way I believe it embodies almost child/toy like qualities and fascinations from his own memories, also by its very nature and design with its pretty lights and noises (or not of course) but don't be fooled, the Tenori is a deadly serious toy, it's a bit incongruous I know) that you may sense is reflective of the inventors own idiosyncrasies...the Tenori-on is in a way a personification of the man...he's in there!

The Tenori-on is in some ways a gift (albeit at a price and worth every penny) to everyone that unlocks certain musical freedoms, interactions and expressions that may otherwise be complex, time consuming and difficult to learn without having to grasp classical/theory/tech knowledge and goes some way toward easing that burden in that these otherwise hard earned skills don't factor so heavily in their necessity for the player/creator using the Tenori to get satisfaction from the magic and enjoyment of music creation and that the Tenorian can achieve something complete and meaningful (or not) without a big time input and frustration...bleeps, blips, hypnotic melodies yes, but it can do any other genre also.It's of course also a visually impressive bit of kit and don't under estimate the combined interactive/brain/photonic/frequency/tactile effect...you can become very absorbed to the point of self hypnosis/trip out...the hours can just pass you by.

The Tenori-on is a wonderful musical instrument, sure it may well not appeal to some, even many, (I think children will be addicted ) but it is a welcome addition and useful in many contexts not least its compactness and ready to eat nature.It's also first and foremost for me a lot of fun (even more with others together), it's even got an alarm so you can wake up or chill out and go back to sleep again to your or others little masterpieces.Cheesy or practical, you decide.Me I love these little Japanese cultural touches.In fact I'll stick my neck out here, the Tenori-on has enough hallmarks and could well be the 909 or 303 of blip and bleep in years to come if it takes off and that's just one of it's numerous facets.

It's also software upgradeable...I asked Yamaha about its scope, they replied but did not answer exactly what is possible...new modes etc, how much dsp etc.Maybe some of the features that are missing above can be addressed.

It's a lot more than a metal box with flashy lights and goes tick tock.

[wuss88]

wow pricey

http://www.dv247.com/invt/46645/

[semtek]

I had a play with one the other day and I must say that I was impressed by the concept. It is highly addictive.

My concerns are:

1. The sound banks have too much 'Yamaha' personality to be truly useful for electronic composition.

2. As far as I can tell from the documentation you can't sync the tenori on as a slave to midi clock.

Am I wrong?

[Motion]

Hi semtek...it will sync to external tempo, in fact the Tenori sequencer completely decouples from its own fixed internal tempo of 50-200, with logic I can play with 5-999 and no problems...remarkably there is no spp, you have to manually set them both on 1st beat or wherever to start/stay in sync but there is barely no percepitible drifting between the 2 over even hours if I leave it and don't start or stop one or the other.(I can only say that the midi clock from Logic is very solid also)

[horseface]

Originally Posted by Motiatronix

Lots of stuff

Thanks for that lengthy review, Motiatronix. It's a nice machine and I'm eager to play with it again. I think it's a work of art, truly. It keeps me engrossed for hours, but I can't quite accept it as a full on performance/production tool with that built-in sound bank. I just don't know how entertaining blips and beeps are for other people in the long run. Like I say, some IDM folk can listen to tinkly stuff forever, but I like a bit more welly.

I love the limitations, yet I'm frustrated by them as the same time. I mean, limitations do make you concentrate on the main idea more than silly tweaking, but the on board sounds force me to sound a certain way. The only way I can change this is to either load some custom samples into the banks, or shift the presets octaves places that they 'shouldn't' go.

I've put a 909 and a DDD kit in there (which sound great!), but I feel slightly 'dirty' doing that, weirdly enough. It's like I've taken the purity away from it.

After the naff drums, the bass sounds are my main gripe. I'm sorely tempted to make a multi sampled bass instrument to sit in there. Maybe I can experiment shifting other presets down and octave or two and see if there's anything useful.

But, also, in loading custom samples, I can now appreciate how much work has gone into getting all the presets to balance nicely against each other.

It will be nice when we can start swapping Tenori sound banks over the web. I love the way the tool makes a self contained voice file.

[dlmorley]

You can download an album done entirely on a tenori-on here.
NORMAN FAIRBANKS - One American Second

[Motion]

Hi Horseface...thanks...absoloutley agree about some of the frustrations...I would like nothing more to have been able to have a full synth/sample engine with all the trimmings in there..I mean Yamaha are the masters of the shrinking chip over the years I mean an O2R on a card and all that so this as I say is a very weird move in some ways given what they could have done....so much possibilties for individual sound making if editing could be accomplished, I would happily have paid more.

I wonder how much they stuck to TI's philosophy which I'm presuming was also the focused bank of sounds and if the obvious limitations were deliberate or due to cost/design limits etc.They were I believe specially tweaked as you say because they indeed do have a good balance amongst themselves in the mix.Maybe even Yamaha had plans to put the full monty in there...even if it meant using an editor to get to them so you could at least reprogram them...like the AN and DX200 boxes most of the synth could be tweaked but the extra spice you needed the editor...I wonder if perhaps it's possible or they are permanently burnt and no eeprom, so probably likely not.But you never know.

The great thing is the self containment and ease of use, the purity as you say but I have triggered soft synths and drum machines in Logic (I noticed I have to set up transformer filters on every midi channel from the Tenori as well as for notes to get things triggering ok as all 16 midi channels are being rechannelised)...but once sorted the sounds with automation/editing can sound incredible with the realtime interaction with he Tenori which when I hear this wished for the full monty.It would have been bananas to have this sort of power in the palm.

[Motion]

Hi dlmorley thanks for the album info and link.....very nice indeed.

[xist]

Hi Motiatronix, I sent you a PM :-)