changing the bit depth from 16 to 32...

[jaketanner]

Any Avid reps out there??? I am sure that I am not alone in this...can anyone help? Thanks...

[Joe Porto]

Do you need to "convert" files to different bit depth? AFAIK, if you play a 24bit file at 16bit, you are simply truncating the lowest 8 bits, and you would add dither noise to mask the low level artifacts. If you play a 16bit file at 24bit, you will simply have 8 empty bits at the bottom.

I'd imagine the biggest benefit for supporting multiple bit depths in a project is when mixing 16bit samples with a 24/32bit recorded project.

[jaketanner]

True...I understand that part, it's just that I have never been able to change the bit depth within an ALREADY recorded session in past PT versions where the audio plays back at any depth. So my real question is when I switch from 16 to 32 float within the session, is the audio changing as well to that depth in real time? That's where I'm confused, as in the past, one would need to save a session copy to physically change the bit depth.

Just trying to understand what the tech side is of it...any help would be much appreciated.

jake

[cut]

The files will play back as they are i.e. 24 bit will play as 24 bit. The difference is when you sum them, you now have a much higher resolution summing buss, so the mix will be 64 bit > 32 bit as opposed to 48 bit > 24 bit.

[jaketanner]

So setting the session to 32bit float, even though the files are created at 24bit, yields a higher resolution summing bus? You sure?

Thanks

[drew]

First, there's never a reason to start a session at 32 bit, you're converters aren't outputting a 32 bit signal. Heck they're likely only outputting 22 or so bits.

The only reason to turn on 32 bit files is if you're going to do A LOT of gain changes and Audiosuite processing. In this situation, you have more headroom available for these processes. That's it, otherwise it's pointless.

[Brian Carter]

Originally Posted by drew

First, there's never a reason to start a session at 32 bit, you're converters aren't outputting a 32 bit signal. Heck they're likely only outputting 22 or so bits.

The only reason to turn on 32 bit files is if you're going to do A LOT of gain changes and Audiosuite processing. In this situation, you have more headroom available for these processes. That's it, otherwise it's pointless.

Hey Drew - 32 bit files in PT10 also run through the inserts or plugins at 32 bit. The benefit is that all the processing is 32 bit clean. PT doesn't have to upconvert from 24, process at 32 then go back to 24 for the file. It only goes back to 24 for the final output through the convertors.

Will you hear a difference? Some do some don't.

[Glassindo]

There is no advantage to switching on the fly. I like that though. Printing 32 bit files can yield some rewards esp if your mixes are ITB

[jaketanner]

This is still all very up in the air...I get what everyone is saying, but the real question is...is PT10 actually converting files that were recorded at 16bit to 32bit when you change the session, OR is it just for the processing part and bouncing. (plugins, headroom and such).

Also, if a session is 16bits, and you do a save session as, and choose 32bits, is it upsampling it to 32bit float? How would that work? I am not a super tech guy, but just want to understand the benefits compared to other 32bit programs.

I have been playing around with Harrison's Mixbus, and they are 32bit float...but the program sounds MUCH better than PT.

I do hear a difference when switching on the fly between 16, 24, and 32 bits in PT, but I am wondering if all I am hearing is the processing change...and not the files.

BTW, thanks for all who replied! Much appreciated!

[dubrichie]

Are you talking about the session setting for 16/24/32 Bit?

If so, as far as I understand it, the ONLY thing that this setting determines is the Bit Depth of NEW audio files recorded in that session. It affects nothing else. It does not affect pre-existing audio files in any way.

[drew]

Originally Posted by Brian Carter

Hey Drew - 32 bit files in PT10 also run through the inserts or plugins at 32 bit. The benefit is that all the processing is 32 bit clean. PT doesn't have to upconvert from 24, process at 32 then go back to 24 for the file. It only goes back to 24 for the final output through the convertors.

Will you hear a difference? Some do some don't.

But that's only for file based stuff. All realtime is at 32 bit all the time anyway.

[drew]

Originally Posted by jaketanner

...but the program sounds MUCH better than PT.

files please.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by drew

files please.

Mixbuss is designed to sound different...it's got console emulation built in.

Pt with heat/vcc/nls emulation would have the same effect.

[drew]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Mixbuss is designed to sound different...it's got console emulation built in.

Pt with heat/vcc/nls emulation would have the same effect.

ahh, makes sense.

[jaketanner]

Sorry Drew, I appreciate your comments, however, PT and mixbus can be open at the same time and switching between them is quite easy and fast to a/b.

Mixbus sounds great out of the box, and yes, with a LOT of work, you can achieve similar results, but no way the same...you miss that extra something that Mixbus does, that can not be had with simply adding plugins. I own the VCC, McDsp Channels, UBK-1, and lots of other analog emus and they're close..but again, not exact.

Harrison goes into a whole explanation of the "why", it sounds better...If I had to chose for ease of use and speed, PT wins hands down, which is a major complaint of mine with Mixbus...they're close, but not there yet for us to fully make the switch...

[drew]

Originally Posted by jaketanner

Sorry Drew, I appreciate your comments, however, PT and mixbus can be open at the same time and switching between them is quite easy and fast to a/b.

Mixbus sounds great out of the box, and yes, with a LOT of work, you can achieve similar results, but no way the same...you miss that extra something that Mixbus does, that can not be had with simply adding plugins. I own the VCC, McDsp Channels, UBK-1, and lots of other analog emus and they're close..but again, not exact.

Harrison goes into a whole explanation of the "why", it sounds better...If I had to chose for ease of use and speed, PT wins hands down, which is a major complaint of mine with Mixbus...they're close, but not there yet for us to fully make the switch...

Forgive me, but of course an "emulated" mixbuss will sound better/different than straight digital summing. Can this be turned off in the Harrison software? If not, then a proper comparison is impossible since we don't know what Harrison is doing.

[jaketanner]

Drew, so PT10 now uses 32bit float at all times, regardless of bit depth of files recorded? Makes sense I guess, but I still do hear a difference when switching on the fly between 16-32float...regardless what the session is recorded at.

I also understand that it is for new files recorded...that also makes sense now. So if you have a session that was recorded in 16bits (music only), then you can record the vocals in at 32bits? Cool.

how does this affect session transfers back to an older version of PT where 32bits are not supported? Does it convert the files automatically back down to 24?

Thanks again to all who have chimed in.

[jaketanner]

As far as I understand it, speaking with Ben from Harrison, the only thing that you can turn off is the Tape sat..by setting it to zero. I have not tried a true test with this setting set to zero, but I am still struggling with the fact that mixbus is so damn awkward...lol compared to PT that is. I am still getting used to it, and there are still some bugs to work out, even in V2.

Thanks again.

[jaketanner]

Just went to Harrison's site, the Mixbus is based off of their analog and digital consoles, so perhaps that's the difference. Maybe if VCC had a Harrison emu, then they'd sound similar...lol I don't know...

[jaketanner]

Sorry, just realized that Psyco Monkey mentioned the EMU point first...just wanted to acknowledge him as well. Thanks.