Avid ProTools Express - ugh

[passmore]

If Avid found the cure for Cancer and invented Nuclear Fusion there would criticism of that too. Maybe for SOME users it's a prefect solution. It's not meant to be professional product it's an entry level basic system.

Kinda like a tricycle for someone want to learn how to ride a bike!

[jason baliban]

If there is a significant price difference and a reasonable upgrade path, i think its a good idea.

jB

[krheatman]

You can always just run the full version of Protools 9 with anyone's hardware anyway.No advantage to buying their hardware anyway.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz App

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by davelang68

Avid just updated their software line up. Now when you purchase an Mbox or mini you get....ProTools Express. I bet you know what that is without even looking. And you're right. Yet another piece of crippleware - 16 track total etc. etc.

With all the items competing for attention (HDX on Windows, ProTools 10.1.1) etc. a new crippleware version to punish people who are foolish enough to buy Avid hardware got the nod?

Way to go.

http://www.avid.com/US/products/fami...-Tools/compare

PS - we're back to hardware dongles as well - no support for third party interfaces.

Now PT is a £600 standalone app, you can't give it away with a £400 interface.

You don't get full versions of cubase bundled with interfaces do you?

The mbox 3 is a worthy piece of kit in its own right.

[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by krheatman

You can always just run the full version of Protools 9 with anyone's hardware anyway.No advantage to buying their hardware anyway.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz App

I'm hearing the converters on the mbox 3 pro are really worthy.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz App

[krheatman]

Originally Posted by FLYINGJAY

I'm hearing the converters on the mbox 3 pro are really worthy.

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz App

I won't buy an interface that doesn't have AES or at least SMUX outs.

[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by krheatman

I won't buy an interface that doesn't have AES or at least SMUX outs.

I totally understand!

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz App

[Joe Porto]

Mbox mini w/out software was $299. Avid is now including PTe at no additional charge. Mbox mini w/ PT10 is also available for $699.

So your bitching because Avid is now including free software w/ the mini?

[MonoBrow]

Originally Posted by Joe Porto

Mbox mini w/out software was $299. Avid is now including PTe at no additional charge. Mbox mini w/ PT10 is also available for $699.

So your bitching because Avid is now including free software w/ the mini?

Yes.How dare they do that!

[C.Lambrechts]

[QUOTE=davelang68;7693801
Way to go.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly what I thought as well

But I think my perspective is a bit different. I thought it was a great decision to include a Pro Tools version with basic features into an existing hardware offering for no additional cost.



Chris

[ayskura]

yes but before you did get Pro Tools LE that worked with 32 audio tracks... Now thanks to them discontinuing my Mbox 1 what should I do? buy a Mbox Mini having a free express that I can't even open my older projects with 32 tracks? uhmmm

[cananball]

Originally Posted by ayskura

yes but before you did get Pro Tools LE that worked with 32 audio tracks... Now thanks to them discontinuing my Mbox 1 what should I do? buy a Mbox Mini having a free express that I can't even open my older projects with 32 tracks? uhmmm

Yes well they dropped support for mbox 1 and PTLE was discontinued almost 2 years ago. If you want to keep using pro tools you're gonna have to upgrade -- both. Basic PT cost more than PTLE but has a lot of extra features plus the ability to use 3rd party hardware. Ans it is competitively priced with the other leading DAW's.

Will 8le recognize mbox 3? Perhaps if you upgrade to 8.05....not sure.

Sent from my DROIDX using Gearslutz App

[krheatman]

Originally Posted by cananball

Yes well they dropped support for mbox 1 and PTLE was discontinued almost 2 years ago. If you want to keep using pro tools you're gonna have to upgrade -- both. Basic PT cost more than PTLE but has a lot of extra features plus the ability to use 3rd party hardware. Ans it is competitively priced with the other leading DAW's.

Will 8le recognize mbox 3? Perhaps if you upgrade to 8.05....not sure.

Sent from my DROIDX using Gearslutz App

I went to PT10.I had upgraded to PT9 and my kid uses that,then I bought a bundled 9 & 10 license on here for $300.
10 is great and you can use any hardware with it.And I also use Cubase 6.5 and Samplitude Pro X Suite.

All 3 have their strong suits.DAW's are really getting with the program(pun intended).

[ayskura]

Originally Posted by cananball

Yes well they dropped support for mbox 1 and PTLE was discontinued almost 2 years ago. If you want to keep using pro tools you're gonna have to upgrade -- both. Basic PT cost more than PTLE but has a lot of extra features plus the ability to use 3rd party hardware. Ans it is competitively priced with the other leading DAW's.

Will 8le recognize mbox 3? Perhaps if you upgrade to 8.05....not sure.

Sent from my DROIDX using Gearslutz App

No worry I don't agree... I bought a system working and it's not future proof. stay with me... if you bought digital performer 5 you still can use it today with the newest computer taking advance of the extra power if you need to. Mbox is not obsolete comparing to what's on the market. it's a USB1 audio interface as such as mbox mini. MOTU still produce drivers for the original 828 that way older than the mbox 1. And competitively priced? Logic 9 is 150$! for a software which is way more capable of pro tools, works with any audio hardware, freeze audio and so on!
this is 2012, no more 1999... I feel wrong for how I'm treated from AVID. I bought my mbox and I'd like to use it with my computer. thing I can't do because of the OS which is obligatory for other app to work. the thing really piss me off too is that I could buy a USB driver from a 3rd party deveolper for 59 euros and the interface would work better than ever (being core audio instead of crap digi drivers) but for 59 euros I can buy a 2nd hand m-audio with more options (although possibly not inserts :( )

this politics don't make honor to AVID. it makes me feel it's a dodgy company aiming to create buzz and smoke instead of cutting edge technology products.

I LOVE PRO TOOLS it's the reason why I bought a mac back in the days.
I like the integration they had with hardware.

But what is this... now pro tools works with any other audio interface (including the older 828 etc.) and not with their own audio interface... what a shame

[passmore]

Originally Posted by davelang68

Avid just updated their software line up. Now when you purchase an Mbox or mini you get....ProTools Express. I bet you know what that is without even looking. And you're right. Yet another piece of crippleware - 16 track total etc. etc.

With all the items competing for attention (HDX on Windows, ProTools 10.1.1) etc. a new crippleware version to punish people who are foolish enough to buy Avid hardware got the nod?

Way to go.

Avid | Compare Pro Tools Software and Systems

PS - we're back to hardware dongles as well - no support for third party interfaces.

Steinburg gives you crippled cubase with there low end products too.
CI1
Don't expect flagship software with entry level products !!!
Thats' why they are called "ENTRY LEVEL PRODUCTS"
WTF?

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by ayskura

No worry I don't agree... I bought a system working and it's not future proof.

"future proof" is not a word that exists in computing. You bought a "working system"; short of a hardware failure, that system will stay working. The fact that you can't upgrade past a certain point is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by ayskura

stay with me... if you bought digital performer 5 you still can use it today with the newest computer taking advance of the extra power if you need to.

DP5 runs under Lion? really? does it even run on Intel machines? I'm not familiar with DP really so I don't know when it was released, but given we're on 7 now, I'm guessing DP5 was released under...Leopard? And it works fine on Lion?

Originally Posted by ayskura

Mbox is not obsolete comparing to what's on the market. it's a USB1 audio interface as such as mbox mini. MOTU still produce drivers for the original 828 that way older than the mbox 1.

Original Mbox is a relatively budget interface over 10 years old. I'm not sure that it's in the interest of many for Avid to still be supporting something this old. I'd personally rather they worked on issues relevant to those of us a bit more up to date.

Originally Posted by ayskura

And competitively priced? Logic 9 is 150$! for a software which is way more capable of pro tools, works with any audio hardware, freeze audio and so on!

Logic is an unfair comparison - you can bet Apple isn't making any money from it, it's a loss leader to get people to buy Macs. Cubase isn't that cheap; DP isn't that cheap. If you think Logic is "way more capable" than PT, that's a matter of opinion; I know there's plenty of things you can't do in Logic at all!

Originally Posted by ayskura

this is 2012, no more 1999... I feel wrong for how I'm treated from AVID. I bought my mbox and I'd like to use it with my computer. thing I can't do because of the OS which is obligatory for other app to work.

Ah. So why aren't you angry at the other app's developers for not making their app run on your old operating system? after all, aren't they doing the exact same thing you're accusing Avid of, not supporting older systems? Seems to me you're picking and choosing your criticisms.

Originally Posted by ayskura

the thing really piss me off too is that I could buy a USB driver from a 3rd party deveolper for 59 euros and the interface would work better than ever (being core audio instead of crap digi drivers) but for 59 euros I can buy a 2nd hand m-audio with more options (although possibly not inserts :( )

And that is your choice, and you're free to make it.

Originally Posted by ayskura

this politics don't make honor to AVID. it makes me feel it's a dodgy company aiming to create buzz and smoke instead of cutting edge technology products.

Again, you're welcome to your opinion. They certainly don't give me that impression whenever I've called them with a real professional issue, or when I've been to their product demos.

Originally Posted by ayskura

I LOVE PRO TOOLS it's the reason why I bought a mac back in the days.
I like the integration they had with hardware.

But what is this... now pro tools works with any other audio interface (including the older 828 etc.) and not with their own audio interface... what a shame

Well, amazingly, now Avid have done what was requested, and made their software open to 3rd party interfaces, some people still aren't happy. What a surprise.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

"future proof" is not a word that exists in computing. You bought a "working system"; short of a hardware failure, that system will stay working. The fact that you can't upgrade past a certain point is irrelevant.



DP5 runs under Lion? really? does it even run on Intel machines? I'm not familiar with DP really so I don't know when it was released, but given we're on 7 now, I'm guessing DP5 was released under...Leopard? And it works fine on Lion?



Original Mbox is a relatively budget interface over 10 years old. I'm not sure that it's in the interest of many for Avid to still be supporting something this old. I'd personally rather they worked on issues relevant to those of us a bit more up to date.



Logic is an unfair comparison - you can bet Apple isn't making any money from it, it's a loss leader to get people to buy Macs. Cubase isn't that cheap; DP isn't that cheap. If you think Logic is "way more capable" than PT, that's a matter of opinion; I know there's plenty of things you can't do in Logic at all!



Ah. So why aren't you angry at the other app's developers for not making their app run on your old operating system? after all, aren't they doing the exact same thing you're accusing Avid of, not supporting older systems? Seems to me you're picking and choosing your criticisms.



And that is your choice, and you're free to make it.



Again, you're welcome to your opinion. They certainly don't give me that impression whenever I've called them with a real professional issue, or when I've been to their product demos.



Well, amazingly, now Avid have done what was requested, and made their software open to 3rd party interfaces, some people still aren't happy. What a surprise.

And they went RIGHT BACK to their hardware dongle policy with their high end systems. Can't buy an HDX card, HAVE to buy it WITH their interface.

TH

[T_R_S]

Yes you can buy an HDX or Native card without an Avid interface. If your dealer is telling you can't maybe it's time to find another dealer.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

Yes you can buy an HDX or Native card without an Avid interface. If your dealer is telling you can't maybe it's time to find another dealer.

Not supposed to.

From Avid:

Q: Do I need to buy an Avid interface separately when purchasing a new Pro Tools|HDX system?
A: An interface is included — Pro Tools|HDX provides the highest performance as a complete system, which includes the HDX PCIe card, Pro Tools HD software, and your choice of Pro Tools HD Series interface. This configuration is how we designed and tested the system to guarantee the highest performance for our most demanding professional customers. By purchasing Pro Tools|HDX as a complete system, we can also offer a lower cost of entry when compared to purchasing each piece separately.

[T_R_S]

Okay I guess I am wrong having already bought 3 HDX sytems without interfaces.
Avid is not an Evil Empire dealers sell them without Avid interfaces.
Just ask ...
If they say no find another dealer...

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

Okay I guess I am wrong having already bought 3 HDX sytems without interfaces.
Avid is not an Evil Empire dealers sell them without Avid interfaces.
Just ask ...
If they say no find another dealer...

Not only have I asked two of the biggest Avid dealers in the US (Sweetwater and Alto), but it IS the official Avid policy, so it doesn't matter if you bought 20 of them, that is the official line and I guess one has to just keep searching until you find one who will bend the rules.

There are even people within Avid who disagree with the policy and feel it's a reversion back to the old Digidesign "married to hardware philosophy". Good to know it can be done though, because I'd just as soon get into as cheaply as I could for now, getting a 192 for the time being and the card itself. Guess I'll keep looking!

TH

[passmore]

I bought six HDX systems no interfaces. We already had 2 x 16 x 16's and the rest are 192 Digital with Apogee's.
Sweetwater no interface sold here:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HDXHD3-HDx

[ayskura]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

"future proof" is not a word that exists in computing. You bought a "working system"; short of a hardware failure, that system will stay working. The fact that you can't upgrade past a certain point is irrelevant.



DP5 runs under Lion? really? does it even run on Intel machines? I'm not familiar with DP really so I don't know when it was released, but given we're on 7 now, I'm guessing DP5 was released under...Leopard? And it works fine on Lion?



Original Mbox is a relatively budget interface over 10 years old. I'm not sure that it's in the interest of many for Avid to still be supporting something this old. I'd personally rather they worked on issues relevant to those of us a bit more up to date.



Logic is an unfair comparison - you can bet Apple isn't making any money from it, it's a loss leader to get people to buy Macs. Cubase isn't that cheap; DP isn't that cheap. If you think Logic is "way more capable" than PT, that's a matter of opinion; I know there's plenty of things you can't do in Logic at all!



Ah. So why aren't you angry at the other app's developers for not making their app run on your old operating system? after all, aren't they doing the exact same thing you're accusing Avid of, not supporting older systems? Seems to me you're picking and choosing your criticisms.



And that is your choice, and you're free to make it.



Again, you're welcome to your opinion. They certainly don't give me that impression whenever I've called them with a real professional issue, or when I've been to their product demos.



Well, amazingly, now Avid have done what was requested, and made their software open to 3rd party interfaces, some people still aren't happy. What a surprise.

You write too many boll*cks!


so you saying that something of 10 years old is considered obsolete? uhmmm

When you move to the 'lion' thing then you go again in the wrong territory man. I don't want to stop the evolution but I'd like to stop the waste. What should I do with my perfectly working mbox 1? put it in a landfill? and buy what? a mbox2? for what?? because I can use snow leopard with it?
and what selling it to who? I'm happy they opened pro tools to 3rd party but why don't do they write core audio drivers? Why don't they update the drivers for snow leopard for the mbox?

Logic is the FAIR comparison. and what can you do with other DAWS you can't with Logic? App developer are forced to enforce compatibility to the latest OS as they use tool made by apple and newer tool (to make compatibility with newer os) break compatibility. Now we have 1 os update per year. get ready to be cut out man with your stupid mentality of 'whatever
comes' I know that Microsoft lost a court for integrating internet explorer into windows. But apple goes on integrating iTunes store into iTunes, integrating ipod hardware with itunes, forcing upgrading from one machine to another.

you have a PPC you are cut out of the internet. I'm not telling latest application I'm telling youtube! what is this? a pentium III with XP can easily go on youtube but a G5 not? transition should be smooth. I accept my stuff gets old but still they should accept I gave my money to them.

I'm not the person who wants to buy a new interface, new computer, new software, new everything every year. sorry it's not for me. and trust me it's not for you either. Keep thinking this way you'll be cut out from this.

This is reason why linux exists. to stop this.

things like rosegarden, and ardour are catching up and soon you'll be able to be as much productive with any hardware. without having to look at os 0.0.x upgrades who is necessary to run this but breaks that.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by ayskura

You write too many boll*cks!


so you saying that something of 10 years old is considered obsolete? uhmmm

When you move to the 'lion' thing then you go again in the wrong territory man. I don't want to stop the evolution but I'd like to stop the waste. What should I do with my perfectly working mbox 1? put it in a landfill? and buy what? a mbox2? for what?? because I can use snow leopard with it?
and what selling it to who? I'm happy they opened pro tools to 3rd party but why don't do they write core audio drivers? Why don't they update the drivers for snow leopard for the mbox?

Logic is the FAIR comparison. and what can you do with other DAWS you can't with Logic? App developer are forced to enforce compatibility to the latest OS as they use tool made by apple and newer tool (to make compatibility with newer os) break compatibility. Now we have 1 os update per year. get ready to be cut out man with your stupid mentality of 'whatever
comes' I know that Microsoft lost a court for integrating internet explorer into windows. But apple goes on integrating iTunes store into iTunes, integrating ipod hardware with itunes, forcing upgrading from one machine to another.

you have a PPC you are cut out of the internet. I'm not telling latest application I'm telling youtube! what is this? a pentium III with XP can easily go on youtube but a G5 not? transition should be smooth. I accept my stuff gets old but still they should accept I gave my money to them.

I'm not the person who wants to buy a new interface, new computer, new software, new everything every year. sorry it's not for me. and trust me it's not for you either. Keep thinking this way you'll be cut out from this.

This is reason why linux exists. to stop this.

things like rosegarden, and ardour are catching up and soon you'll be able to be as much productive with any hardware. without having to look at os 0.0.x upgrades who is necessary to run this but breaks that.

You say you can't get on YouTube using a ppc mac, and yet I'M the one talking bollox?!

I don't care what you do with your mbox1, but I don't want the purchase of my new system subsidising the support for it. Maybe a charge to download a new driver would be fair? But if including the original mbox holds back the development of pt for technical reasons (the same way HD TDM can't go 64bit) then I'm happy it's being ditched.

As for logic - no its not a fair comparison because apple couldn't sell it at the price they do were it their only product - its nothing to do with features, just marketing.

When I see Linux in a real commercial room, I'll believe what you say. Until them I'll live in the real world!

[lilchino786]

You all don't see the point in which most of us are very mad at avid for playing little games with their software. I bought a mbox mini2 for 400$ 3 years ago and it came with Pro tools le 8 which had great features 48 tracks, loads of virtual instruments, with my macbook pro i could run and open Pro tools HD sessions with loads of plugins and it wouldnt even choke, sometimes it would stop after a while of working fine. NOW! when you buy any mbox you get pro tools SE or Express which CANNOT open the Pro tools Hd files i have because it has to many tracks. POINT IS AVID IS GETTING WORSE FOR THE PRICE YOU PAY NOW YOU GET LESS FEATURES THEN WHAT YOU WOULD GET 4 YEARS AGO. Avid i hate you because you give us a crap version of pro tools when before you gave us a good/decent version when we purchased an mbox. You greedy people just want us to have to buy the full PRO Tools to get features we used to get for free when we purchased the mbox. I was planing on buying pro tools hd but now that i see avid likes to play games and cheat us into having to pay for something that should be included like it used to be. I changed my mind and im gona go for apogee and Logic instead.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by lilchino786

You all don't see the point in which most of us are very mad at avid for playing little games with their software. I bought a mbox mini2 for 400$ 3 years ago and it came with Pro tools le 8 which had great features 48 tracks, loads of virtual instruments, with my macbook pro i could run and open Pro tools HD sessions with loads of plugins and it wouldnt even choke, sometimes it would stop after a while of working fine. NOW! when you buy any mbox you get pro tools SE or Express which CANNOT open the Pro tools Hd files i have because it has to many tracks. POINT IS AVID IS GETTING WORSE FOR THE PRICE YOU PAY NOW YOU GET LESS FEATURES THEN WHAT YOU WOULD GET 4 YEARS AGO. Avid i hate you because you give us a crap version of pro tools when before you gave us a good/decent version when we purchased an mbox. You greedy people just want us to have to buy the full PRO Tools to get features we used to get for free when we purchased the mbox. I was planing on buying pro tools hd but now that i see avid likes to play games and cheat us into having to pay for something that should be included like it used to be. I changed my mind and im gona go for apogee and Logic instead.

I'm not defending Avid's pricing and upgrade fees...but by making pt9 hardware independent (which is what everyone wanted) it made it a separate product that you can't just give away with an interface that costs less than the software alone.

Perfect example of damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you want to move to logic, that's your choice. If a few pounds puts you off buying an HD rig, you weren't the person who should be buying one anyway - you don't need it! If you actually need an HD rig, it'd make that money back for you...