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#61
27th February 2012
Old 27th February 2012
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manysounds View Post
Let's remind everyone how many tracks were on the PTools system the Beatles used for Sgt. Pepper.

(... not that I love that record...)
I think a few clients might leave if you tell them you have only four tracks in 2012... ;-)

Alistair
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#62
27th February 2012
Old 27th February 2012
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
I think a few clients might leave if you tell them you have only four tracks in 2012... ;-)

Alistair
Yeah yeah, I know I know. Not the point
#63
27th February 2012
Old 27th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
The main issue with this is that there is always extra latency when going from the DSP system to the native system and back. So to get the lowest latency possible you need to stick to either DSP or native...

Except maybe the Pyramix MassCore system... I've never used that.

Alistair
People use RTAS and TDM plugs in the same sessions all the time. For tracking a vocal or other overdub, a DSP solution that just took care of that would work fine. It would work so fine that they would lose too many sales of the HDX systems I'm afraid.
#64
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew View Post
I'm just trying to stop the nonsense around here.
I can understand that, I guess I should have posted in the "How Good does it Sound" thread, cause at the end of the day, thats all i care about, and it was never my intention to bring nonsense to the forum, but I admit, i'm probably not a very good blogger,
but from what I can see, it looks like there are way too many professional posters on gearslutz and the DUC and not enough music professionals, i'm trying to figure out how someone can post in the thousands on multiple sites and still get work done in the studio, I thought i was doing a little something with my 58 posts since 2008.
Anyway to everyone, I'll get out your way for now,
back to work
#65
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so serious View Post
I can understand that, I guess I should have posted in the "How Good does it Sound" thread, cause at the end of the day, thats all i care about, and it was never my intention to bring nonsense to the forum, but I admit, i'm probably not a very good blogger,
but from what can i see, it looks like there are way too many professional posters on gearslutz and the DUC and not enough music professionals, i'm trying to figure out how someone can post in the thousands on multiple sites and still get work done in the studio, I thought i was doing a little something with my 58 posts since 2008.
Anyway to everyone, I'll get out your way for now,
back to work
We come here while Pro Tools is bouncing in real time lol

TH
#66
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
People use RTAS and TDM plugs in the same sessions all the time.
That isn't low latency. A native rig can easily outperform that situation. No need for DSP.



Quote:
It would work so fine that they would lose too many sales of the HDX systems I'm afraid.
Indeed. Avid put many arbitrary limitations in their native systems so as not to compete with their expensive DSP solutions. Avid are fully aware if the power of native.

Alistair
#67
2nd March 2012
Old 2nd March 2012
  #67
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and they put arbitrary limitations on HDTDM /HDX systems with only 8 I/O's in native when you bought your system more than 20 000 euros !

Also, when i see it's possible to buy 20 000 euros Gear from Avid (new ) and get ZERO reduction ( i have to say price was competitive from the start in some shops compared to some other shops or companies before the Avid prices increased two weeks ago but that's not a reason ) nor any free optional plug-ins !

Sincerly i think it's a shame !
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#68
3rd March 2012
Old 3rd March 2012
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by so serious View Post
i'm trying to figure out how someone can post in the thousands on multiple sites and still get work done in the studio.
It's called having employee's doing work for you that you don't 'need' to do.
It's the same reason why my studio is booked today while I'm on vacation in Hawaii!

sorry now back to the beach!
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#69
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #69
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Camera is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_S View Post
It's called having employee's doing work for you that you don't 'need' to do.
It's the same reason why my studio is booked today while I'm on vacation in Hawaii!

sorry now back to the beach!
The music still sounds like crap. I'd call it wanna-be pop. Older lady that wants to be a young pop start sound. Sorry, but for that kind of music, you need both charms to pull that off. Bad music does not sound better with HDX or FX or SND-FX or anything with X at the end of it.

I know I'm not the only one that thinks that.

I'm sure your "employees" appreciate your responses while your in Hawaii though. Pay them enough, and employees will be happy.

And one client that you're pushing proves nothing.
#70
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
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Ah wait, you're the thread starter....

It makes sense now...

How do you sell all those Avid Pro Tools Upgrades at those prices BTW?
#71
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Indeed. Avid put many arbitrary limitations in their native systems so as not to compete with their expensive DSP solutions. Avid are fully aware if the power of native.
I don't suppose there is a way around those limitations?
#72
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camera View Post
The music still sounds like crap. I'd call it wanna-be pop. Older lady that wants to be a young pop start sound. Sorry, but for that kind of music, you need both charms to pull that off. Bad music does not sound better with HDX or FX or SND-FX or anything with X at the end of it.

I know I'm not the only one that thinks that.

I'm sure your "employees" appreciate your responses while your in Hawaii though. Pay them enough, and employees will be happy.

And one client that you're pushing proves nothing.
Your musical critique is completely irrelevant to the subject of the thread, and in really poor taste.

TH
#73
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Your musical critique is completely irrelevant to the subject of the thread, and in really poor taste.

TH
And yet nothing has been proven. Musical? HDX does not offer a better performance for any of the synths used in the ONE pop example given by the op. Transient response has not been improved at all.

Poor taste? Ask the OP who has started this thread to expand upon using this forum to advertise his company, and then boast about his vacation in Hawaii.

Trust me, my employees understand about the taste of my company, as small as it may be, I still have respect for them, and we all gave a when we got together to consider if HDX would be a profitable expenditure towards our business and our future.

I would rather surprise my employees with a paid trip to AES and a few nights out on the town instead of throwing my success in their face. A piece of gear is just that, an employee is a person. I don't bite the hand that feeds me. I make it stronger.

Any personal gain I have from my company I keep for my family. And in good taste. Like better health care, something my employees have respect for, and gain from.
#74
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camera View Post
And yet nothing has been proven. Musical? HDX does not offer a better performance for any of the synths used in the ONE pop example given by the op. Transient response has not been improved at all.

Poor taste? Ask the OP who has started this thread to expand upon using this forum to advertise his company, and then boast about his vacation in Hawaii.

Trust me, my employees understand about the taste of my company, as small as it may be, I still have respect for them, and we all gave a when we got together to consider if HDX would be a profitable expenditure towards our business and our future.

I would rather surprise my employees with a paid trip to AES and a few nights out on the town instead of throwing my success in their face.

Any personal gain I have from my company I keep for my family. And in good taste. Like better health care.
No HDX doesn't sound any better than any good native system with great conversion. Why should it? I would not ever back that argument and I certainly agree with you there.

Does it sound better than TDM? Probably, yes, because first of all it's more forgiving and you don't have to worry as much about gain staging as you do in a TDM system.

But my reply concerned the fact that I feel it's in poor taste to critique the music itself, or the artist making it. That's not what this thread was, or is, about. There can be no doubt about the power of an HDX system, what is doubtful is how many people actually need one at this point in time.

TH
#75
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #75
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Camera is offline
But then again, I've seen these threads/people too many times.

Boasting.

They may have the money, but it does not come from where they advertise it.

Why do I bother with this argument?

Because the music sounds like crap and it's not a proof that HDX sounds better.

I know of a few film companies that have switched over to HDX, but it's not because it sounds better. It could handle the projects quicker.

Time is money to them.

Put it this way, 12 hours union at $70,000+ a day equals nearly $100 a minute.

One month of work saving 20 min a day on one small rig will save $10,000.

Multiply that by 4 rigs and then 6 months, yes, THAT sounds better.
MediaMix
#76
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camera View Post
I know of a few film companies that have switched over to HDX, but it's not because it sounds better. It could handle the projects quicker.

Time is money to them.

Put it this way, 12 hours union at $70,000+ a day equals nearly $100 a minute.

One month of work saving 20 min a day on one small rig will save $10,000.

Multiply that by 4 rigs and then 6 months, yes, THAT sounds better.
#77
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
No HDX doesn't sound any better than any good native system with great conversion. Why should it? I would not ever back that argument and I certainly agree with you there.

Does it sound better than TDM? Probably, yes, because first of all it's more forgiving and you don't have to worry as much about gain staging as you do in a TDM system.

But my reply concerned the fact that I feel it's in poor taste to critique the music itself, or the artist making it. That's not what this thread was, or is, about. There can be no doubt about the power of an HDX system, what is doubtful is how many people actually need one at this point in time.

TH
But yet the OP is using this one artist to make a point. So that is our point of reference.

So my argument towards this extremely biased thread is that HDX does not sound better, and given the example that the OP has given, there is no difference from his mix on some bad music to paying a top dollar engineer to mix the same ONE song on an LE system, other than the fact the more talented engineer will deliver a better product.

HDX itself does not sound better.
#78
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camera View Post
But then again, I've seen these threads/people too many times.

Boasting.

They may have the money, but it does not come from where they advertise it.

Why do I bother with this argument?

Because the music sounds like crap and it's not a proof that HDX sounds better.

I know of a few film companies that have switched over to HDX, but it's not because it sounds better. It could handle the projects quicker.

Time is money to them.

Put it this way, 12 hours union at $70,000+ a day equals nearly $100 a minute.

One month of work saving 20 min a day on one small rig will save $10,000.

Multiply that by 4 rigs and then 6 months, yes, THAT sounds better.
I don't think any reasonable person that would say the example "sounds like crap."

Hyperbole seems to be in the air tonight. And again the comments on the music itself are irrelevant and completely matter of personal taste.

Re HDX, there will always be a need for guaranteed performance on demand, just as there was with TDM, so yes there will be many pros who use HDX.

You will not see them recording the next John Williams score in Logic or Cubase, or "LE"...

TH
#79
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #79
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Camera is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
I don't think any reasonable person that would say the example "sounds like crap."

Hyperbole seems to be in the air tonight. And again the comments on the music itself are irrelevant and completely matter of personal taste.

Re HDX, there will always be a need for guaranteed performance on demand, just as there was with TDM, so yes there will be many pros who use HDX.

You will not see them recording the next John Williams score in Logic or Cubase, or "LE"...

TH
Compared to what a great pop recording sounds like, ones that win Grammies and are at the top of the charts, that one song "sounds like crap".

I can't even find that artist other than this thread and a conscientiousness effort to search this artist. And many the results return to this thread...

BTW, John Williams... Logic and DP. Pro Tools only comes in at the end....

Oh wait, I'm wrong. I found it. Stephanie Thomson. How about that. A real plug about their artist. Not one done from Hawaii about HDX. Yep, their employees must be proud!!!

Searched GS for her and found one result.

WCMA 2005 Johnny Gasparic Engineer of the Year

Money can do some, like buy a new HDX rig... and send one to Hawaii. It just can't make things sound better.
#80
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
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[QUOTE=Camera;7634782]Compared to what a great pop recording sounds like, ones that win Grammies and are at the top of the charts, that one song "sounds like crap"."

Nonsense, and you know it, and if you don't, then nothing you say can be considered with more than a grain of salt. "Top of the charts" records vary so much in quality it makes my head spin. People buy songs, not sounds, but I'm sure if you think about that a little, you already know that.


"BTW, John Williams... Logic and DP. Pro Tools only comes in at the end...."

Uh....no. John Williams doesn't use sequencers LOL, but with others, yes, that's correct in some cases (others enjoy using PT throughout, though how I do not know in its current state of intolerance for VIs).

PT "comes in at the end"....yeah...DURING THE RECORDING PROCESS.

Because when it's time to deal with 100 musicians on the clock, you'll see DSP systems, not native, bless it's every more powerful little heart.

You seem obsessed with knocking the artist posted, and so far you haven't made any valid criticisms other than "I don't like it" and "she looks funny."

TH
#81
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camera View Post

HDX itself does not sound better.
ehhhh, I disagree. It sounds better to me, than HD TDM does.
#82
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
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amazin' that some would think after years of R&D that Avid's new HDX card would not be an improvement sonically over TDM
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#83
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykhal c View Post
amazin' that some would think after years of R&D that Avid's new HDX card would not be an improvement sonically over TDM
It is amazing what a bit of R&D can do! I heard next they are coming up with a hat that will let you walk straight through solid walls!

Alistair
#84
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
It is amazing what a bit of R&D can do! I heard next they are coming up with a hat that will let you walk straight through solid walls!

Alistair
uh...ok
#85
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
ehhhh, I disagree. It sounds better to me, than HD TDM does.
It absolutely should sound better than TDM, but it sounds no different than a native system with an equally good converter. Avid would not tell you HDX sounds better than HD Native, because it doesn't.
#86
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
It absolutely should sound better than TDM, but it sounds no different than a native system with an equally good converter. Avid would not tell you HDX sounds better than HD Native, because it doesn't.
Ahh, sorry I really didn't read through the above argument. I have a HD native rig, and have been working in a clients room with HDX. He was using HD3 with the same converters before. The difference was clear and evident. I haven't tested it against my Native system, (which sounds wonderful) and I haven't seen anyone calling for a comparison of the two beyond some vague postings and speculation.
#87
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mykhal c View Post
uh...ok
Just saying that it should sound better because they did a lot of R&D doesn't really make much sense. Unless you can explain why it should sound different in technical terms, you might as well believe in magic or science fiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
It absolutely should sound better than TDM, but it sounds no different than a native system with an equally good converter. Avid would not tell you HDX sounds better than HD Native, because it doesn't.
With good gain staging, it shouldn't sound any different. With bad gain staging it certainly could sound different, yes... but IMO that is easily fixed with a bit of care and attention while working.

Alistair
#88
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electricsky View Post
and they put arbitrary limitations on HDTDM /HDX systems with only 8 I/O's in native when you bought your system more than 20 000 euros !

Also, when i see it's possible to buy 20 000 euros Gear from Avid (new ) and get ZERO reduction ( i have to say price was competitive from the start in some shops compared to some other shops or companies before the Avid prices increased two weeks ago but that's not a reason ) nor any free optional plug-ins !

Sincerly i think it's a shame !

I'm not sure I fully understand your statement but you seem to be implying that a HDX rig can only use 8i/o when running core audio ???

I don't think that's true if that is indeed what your inferring.

This from the DUC

Just got the definitive word from Avid:
"The Avid Core Audio Driver provides up to 64 channels of I/O with the first HDX card in your system.
The Core Audio Driver does not support more than the first HDX card in your system."

Still waiting for the dust to settle on AAX plugins, but this makes me more likely to upgrade at some point.

The discussion is here.

Does HDX still have the CoreAudio 8 in limit? - Avid Audio Forums

If that's not what your inferring then ignore this post, but if it is, you are miss informed. Someone here on Gearslutz states they are using 64 i/o from HDX with Logic as well.
#89
6th March 2012
Old 6th March 2012
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I am sure the HDX card (like the HD Native card) supports 64 I/o with Core Audio and ASIO applications. I have not tested HDX yet with Core Audio. We are too busy using it for Pro Tools.
#90
7th March 2012
Old 7th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camera View Post
The music still sounds like crap. I'd call it wanna-be pop. Older lady that wants to be a young pop start sound. Sorry, but for that kind of music, you need both charms to pull that off.
Sounds great to me! - if your so much better than prove it! we are all waiting!
It's comments like yours that turn people off this place.
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