HDX and PT10 installation

[karljohnson]

Hopefully any day now my HDX and PT10 will be here - Quick question - Do I have to erase my PT9 from my Mac or can they both be on the same machine ?
Also do I have reinstall or my plug ins etc .....?
Cheers
Karl

[rus5]

Originally Posted by karljohnson

Hopefully any day now my HDX and PT10 will be here - Quick question - Do I have to erase my PT9 from my Mac or can they both be on the same machine ?
Also do I have reinstall or my plug ins etc .....?
Cheers
Karl

Hi, just did my HDX installation a couple days ago. I did uninstall my PT9HD first and I'm not sure it was a good idea. It doesn't seem to be required and I ended up having to reinstall Structure and Hybrid (Structure is a BIG download). It doesn't say you have to in the documentation though some people on line have made a big deal about doing it. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have.

No, you don't have to reinstall your plugins thank goodness. But there aren't many new Avid plugins so that was a big disappointment. Be sure to check the PT10.1 install notes for a link to the Avid website for the few that have been released. I can't wait until manufactures start releasing their AAX DSP cross grades and Avid releases the rest of theirs.

One issue I did have is I have the "Westmere" Mac Pro and the video card that comes with it uses two external power plugs. The mother board only has two connectors and the HDX card requires one as well and of course, won't work without it. My dealer and I looked high and low trying to find a splitter to no avail (there are larger PC versions but they won't work with Macs). I ended up with a PC power supply sitting on my floor with a power cable running from it to the HDX card inside the Mac to power the board. Not a good long term solution but at least it works. My dealer is trying to come up with something for me and, of course, can't get any help whatsoever from Avid. Big surprise.

As for HDX and PT 10.1, so far so good...

Good luck!! Hope everything goes great for you!!

[Doc_]

Originally Posted by rus5

Hi, just did my HDX installation a couple days ago. I did uninstall my PT9HD first and I'm not sure it was a good idea. It doesn't seem to be required and I ended up having to reinstall Structure and Hybrid (Structure is a BIG download). It doesn't say you have to in the documentation though some people on line have made a big deal about doing it. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have.

No, you don't have to reinstall your plugins thank goodness. But there aren't many new Avid plugins so that was a big disappointment. Be sure to check the PT10.1 install notes for a link to the Avid website for the few that have been released. I can't wait until manufactures start releasing their AAX DSP cross grades and Avid releases the rest of theirs.

One issue I did have is I have the "Westmere" Mac Pro and the video card that comes with it uses two external power plugs. The mother board only has two connectors and the HDX card requires one as well and of course, won't work without it. My dealer and I looked high and low trying to find a splitter to no avail (there are larger PC versions but they won't work with Macs). I ended up with a PC power supply sitting on my floor with a power cable running from it to the HDX card inside the Mac to power the board. Not a good long term solution but at least it works. My dealer is trying to come up with something for me and, of course, can't get any help whatsoever from Avid. Big surprise.

As for HDX and PT 10.1, so far so good...

Good luck!! Hope everything goes great for you!!

great info,do you know what vid card/configuration it is ?

[rus5]

Originally Posted by Doc_

great info,do you know what vid card/configuration it is ?

Yeah, its the ATI Radeon HD 5870 video card which is one of the two choices available from Apple when you purchase a Mac Pro (the last upgrade of which is the "Westmere" version). It seems to be much more powerful than the other option (ATI Radeon HD 5770) and only a couple hundred more. Snow Leopard added a bunch of GPU functionality including high level calls directly to the GPU that even inexperienced s/w developers can use so I expect more and more non-graphics s/w will actually be using GPU power (for example, the FFT processing part of the new graphics display in Ozone 5 pro uses it and its very cool!). So my thinking was the more GPU power the better and I'm guessing a lot of other purchasers (even non-gamer ones like me) picked it too. BUT, there's this little external power connection issue.... Anyway, the card is described at:
Apple - Mac Pro - Now with faster graphics processors from AMD.

Good Luck!!!!

[Doc_]

Originally Posted by rus5

Yeah, its the ATI Radeon HD 5870 video card which is one of the two choices available from Apple when you purchase a Mac Pro (the last upgrade of which is the "Westmere" version). It seems to be much more powerful than the other option (ATI Radeon HD 5770) and only a couple hundred more. Snow Leopard added a bunch of GPU functionality including high level calls directly to the GPU that even inexperienced s/w developers can use so I expect more and more non-graphics s/w will actually be using GPU power (for example, the FFT processing part of the new graphics display in Ozone 5 pro uses it and its very cool!). So my thinking was the more GPU power the better and I'm guessing a lot of other purchasers (even non-gamer ones like me) picked it too. BUT, there's this little external power connection issue.... Anyway, the card is described at:
Apple - Mac Pro - Now with faster graphics processors from AMD.

Good Luck!!!!

Thanks for the quick reply...it seems the simple fix would be to go to the 5770 card,it comes at a cost but that would do it...I will pass this along.

Peace

[karljohnson]

Great - typical - I've got the 5870 card in my Mac Pro 8 core 2.93 - so apart from the obvious remove the graphics card and use another one as anyone got a fix ?
Kj

[karljohnson]

By the way my Mac Pro is a Nehalem not a Westmere ....

[Doc_]

Originally Posted by karljohnson

Great - typical - I've got the 5870 card in my Mac Pro 8 core 2.93 - so apart from the obvious remove the graphics card and use another one as anyone got a fix ?
Kj

don't think a fix is in the future...the 5870 uses two power ports,there are only two in your Mac.The HDX card requires one of the two so you have to change the vid card...sorry

Peace

[Demor]

Eeeehhmmm...., we have two HDX cards sitting here waiting to be installed in a 2009 2.9 8core. You're saying it isn't gonna work????? What about the people who ordered a HDX3? Or can the HDX cards be daisychained?

[Doc_]

Originally Posted by Demor

Eeeehhmmm...., we have two HDX cards sitting here waiting to be installed in a 2009 2.9 8core. You're saying it isn't gonna work????? What about the people who ordered a HDX3? Or can the HDX cards be daisychained?

HDX cards ship with a card to card power adapter(daisychained),you should have no problems in that area...the deal is in the current supported Macs,at the moment your vid card can only use one port...so no "super graphics"at this time..

[Doc_]

looking at the internal power ports it may be possible to take one and make a "Y" cable with two female ends...I would check with both Apple and Avid about power requirements though...the cable would not be hard to make.

[Demor]

Pfeewwww......, thanks, my bloodpressure is going down again.... ;-)

If they can be daisychained the powerdraw can't be that high and I would imagine there is gonna be some margin left on the grapicscard side of it. OK they need two powercords but I guess they don't use up all the amps. So two y-cables and on each one a graphic-HDX connected.

[Pettje]

Has anyone tried powering the card of of the extra SATA connection inside the DVD burner bay? Seems you can get a power adapter to connect to the power cable that comes with the HDX cards. However you may be able to only connect two HDX cards to it. Any thoughts/ideas?

[karljohnson]

So what do I try ?
kj

[hoop]

Posted this over at DUC, but GS seems to have more active users, so I'm gonna repost it here:


Well,

I had HD3 PCI-x with a PE6R4. Used it with Avid I/O, on a Nehalem 8x2.26. I printed a few mixes through it early today, then again with the hew HDX installed. All same plugs, clocking, etc.

Good news: I haven't done extensive A/B tests yet, but the upper mids feel much smoother and the overall mix feels deeper than the HD version. No glitches yet, but I haven't done editing or recording - just opening mixes and printing.

Bad news: the HDX Fan is AWFUL. I don't have a machine room, partially because all the new gear is so quiet. I have 2 Nehalems, a MacMini, the Avid HD IO, and my MacBook Pro and my room was very very quiet.

Now my room isn't quiet anymore. The difference is huge. The fan is constantly at the same speed, even after boot. It also has a lovely high pitch to it. I am praying they can release a firmware update to slow down the fan. Otherwise, I need to call a contractor to get a machine room built. I'm very upset about the noise.

The DSP usage is pretty fantastic, coming from HD3 Accel. I'll post the screenshots of HD vs HDX in a bit. I don't think I could ever touch the power of this system now, at least for my uses.

Love to hear others who have it installed.

- Kent

[hoop]

Here is the system usage of the same session, one on HD3 Accel, one on HDX. The only TDM plug that was used was Revibe (opens as AAX DSP on HDX), and Heat.

HDX is barely getting touched - plenty of power (for me at least).

- kent

[mirrorboy]

As far as HDX and having to plug into the Mac Pro's power.....is it correct to assume that HDX cards will not work in Magma Chassis'?

Or are there power ports in these chassis' just like the Mac Pros?


Thanks,

Scott

[hoop]

Correct.

Currently these cards are not approved for ANY chassis.

- kent

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by hoop

Here is the system usage of the same session, one on HD3 Accel, one on HDX. The only TDM plug that was used was Revibe (opens as AAX DSP on HDX), and Heat.

HDX is barely getting touched - plenty of power (for me at least).

- kent

too bad about Echo Farm & Amp Farm

[rus5]

Originally Posted by hoop

Posted this over at DUC, but GS seems to have more active users, so I'm gonna repost it here:


Well,

I had HD3 PCI-x with a PE6R4. Used it with Avid I/O, on a Nehalem 8x2.26. I printed a few mixes through it early today, then again with the hew HDX installed. All same plugs, clocking, etc.

Good news: I haven't done extensive A/B tests yet, but the upper mids feel much smoother and the overall mix feels deeper than the HD version. No glitches yet, but I haven't done editing or recording - just opening mixes and printing.

Bad news: the HDX Fan is AWFUL. I don't have a machine room, partially because all the new gear is so quiet. I have 2 Nehalems, a MacMini, the Avid HD IO, and my MacBook Pro and my room was very very quiet.

Now my room isn't quiet anymore. The difference is huge. The fan is constantly at the same speed, even after boot. It also has a lovely high pitch to it. I am praying they can release a firmware update to slow down the fan. Otherwise, I need to call a contractor to get a machine room built. I'm very upset about the noise.

The DSP usage is pretty fantastic, coming from HD3 Accel. I'll post the screenshots of HD vs HDX in a bit. I don't think I could ever touch the power of this system now, at least for my uses.

Love to hear others who have it installed.

- Kent

Hi Kent,

I actually haven't noticed any increase in fan noise in my particular case. Between the graphics card and the mac's fans its hardly quiet to start with but I actually can't hear any additional noise (or high pitch) coming from the additional HDX. I wonder if its possible the fan on your HDX is defective somehow? I sure hope not - just wanted to provide an input in case it's useful.

Russ

[hoop]

Thanks, Russ.

I called Avid today, and the support tech acknowledged that the cards are relatively noisy. My MacPro was nearly silent before the HDX card went in it. I have a 2nd Nehalem for my Logic rig, and the different is huge.

My friend just got an HDX rig - I'll have to hear his tomorrow.

- Kent

[rus5]

Originally Posted by hoop

Thanks, Russ.

I called Avid today, and the support tech acknowledged that the cards are relatively noisy. My MacPro was nearly silent before the HDX card went in it. I have a 2nd Nehalem for my Logic rig, and the different is huge.

My friend just got an HDX rig - I'll have to hear his tomorrow.

- Kent

Good deal. Well I'm pulling for it turning out you had a much quieter system than mine to start with and Avid comes out with a firmware upgrade that gets you back to that! Good luck!

[elambo]

rus5-

There's hardly any noise at all coming from any of my Mac Pros, even those with 5 HDDs. What kind of graphics card do you have?

[Doc_]

Originally Posted by rus5

Hi Kent,

I actually haven't noticed any increase in fan noise in my particular case. Between the graphics card and the mac's fans its hardly quiet to start with but I actually can't hear any additional noise (or high pitch) coming from the additional HDX. I wonder if its possible the fan on your HDX is defective somehow? I sure hope not - just wanted to provide an input in case it's useful.

Russ

can hear it for sure but not a problem...people wanted more processing on one card for years,this has gone on and on...now we have it and it has to stay cool,no way around it...it may differ from Mac to Mac.

[karljohnson]

Well my HDX arrived this morning - but now I'm stuck trying to work out what to do with this power cable .....
By the way I got the Omni with it - as I already have one I'm selling it so anyone wanting a great deal on one give me a shout ....
Kj

[rus5]

Originally Posted by elambo

rus5-

There's hardly any noise at all coming from any of my Mac Pros, even those with 5 HDDs. What kind of graphics card do you have?

Hi elambo! Its a ATI Radeon HD 5870. There were two choices when I got mine, the other was the 5770. I picked the upgrade thinking the extra GPU horsepower might come in handy but the 5770 only requires one external power connection. Hope all is well!!

[rus5]

Originally Posted by Doc_

can hear it for sure but not a problem...people wanted more processing on one card for years,this has gone on and on...now we have it and it has to stay cool,no way around it...it may differ from Mac to Mac.

Yeah, I guess that's true. And just based on these few posts, it sounds like there might be some significant variation...

[rus5]

Originally Posted by karljohnson

Well my HDX arrived this morning - but now I'm stuck trying to work out what to do with this power cable .....
By the way I got the Omni with it - as I already have one I'm selling it so anyone wanting a great deal on one give me a shout ....
Kj

Congratulation son your new arrival!! A couple thoughts on the power issue: as mentioned above, one sure way to solve the problem is to change the graphics card to one that requires one or zero power connections (the ATI Radeon HD 5770 supposedly uses one). I am very reluctant to do that myself because I want the graphics card I want - the one I already bought - plus I've already paid for it and I don't want to have to deal with trying to sell it (or just eat it). Second, if you can find a PC somewhere or even a PC power supply (might have to have it attached to a motherboard so it works properly), you can use the PC version of the cable Avid provides and run it from that PS to one, two or three HDX cards. Obviously, that's a lousy solution but it could get you up and running until we all figure something else out.

And I think I discovered one more temporary solution. Some products actually HAVE a small power supply that can be used for this. When I was at a local electronics store trying to figure something out, the guy helping me realized that his "USB 2.0 to SATA/IDE" converter product ($21.85) has a "wall wart" type power supply with the PC version of the connector supplied by Avid. Again, you plug it in the wall and have to run the PC version of the Avid supplied cables from it into the Mac somehow (like through an unused card slot opening) but you can just plug that cable directly into this thing and connect it to the card(s) and you're done. Its still not a good solution but its better than having a whole PC or PC power supply hanging around while you figure something else out. The thing he sold me is Model: ADA-2020 if that's helpful. (here's a link to some of them I just googled up: Dell Generic USB 2.0 to IDE/SATA Cable Adapter 2020 - the actual power supply isn't shown in the picture that comes up but it comes in the box and plugs INTO the thing shown in the picture)

I know those are all bad options, I just wanted to list the ones I know of at this point for what its worth. As usual, my dealer can't get Avid to respond to this problem but I suppose its possible if enough people complain, Avid will have to work out a suitable permanent solution eventually. Well, one can dream anyway. Good luck!

[elambo]

For anyone considering the upgraded video card, it's FAR overboard for a DAW. Bleeding-edge games like Battlefield 3, etc., will benefit, but they require 1,000 times more processing than your sessions would.

Go for the standard card because it's, a) cheaper, b) quieter, c) doesn't seem to require the extra power cable needed for Avid cards.

[mirrorboy]

Originally Posted by karljohnson

Well my HDX arrived this morning - but now I'm stuck trying to work out what to do with this power cable .....
By the way I got the Omni with it - as I already have one I'm selling it so anyone wanting a great deal on one give me a shout ....
Kj

Hey Karl-

Long time, buddy....

PM'd re the Omni.

And by the way, are the converters in the HD I/O the same as those in the Omni? (I don't need any more pres) Is the quality of conversion the same?


Thanks,

Scott