HDX and PT10 installation

[Doc Mixwell]

Firstly, Scott, I will confirm the ONNI has the same converters the HD I/O's, and I can also confirm it is a wonderful product, if it meets your requirements.

Today I installed HDX in a clients studio. They are operating a Westmere 8-core, [which is a pretty ballzy setup] and already had two 16x16 HD I/O's with HD3.

After we marched through all the gotchas, and had it up and running, I found there was absolutely no fan noise from the HDX card, outside of the computer to speak of, so it must differ from Mac and Mac.

When we loaded up the first session, [which was basically maxed out on the HD3 TDM rig previously used] I could immediately see that my clients were noticing how their material and mix reacted differently, with all the plug in processing that was used.

I was VERY impressed with HDX's sound quality from what I have been used to with TDM systems. It absolutely sounds different from TDM, in my experience. I personally feel, it was a palpable difference that seemed very real to me and is nothing to glace over as voodoo.

I thought, the effects used were tighter sounding, more locked in, clearer even. The Headroom of the system was audibly different and audibly better. It was smoother and deeper sounding to my ear, and there was more detail and articulation then the mix had previously with the TDM cards and the same converters.

[hoop]

Adam,

No fan noise? At all?

Wow - today I went over to a friends house with a Nehalem and HDX. Exact same fan noise as my HDX. You can take off the cover of the MacPro and pinpoint exactly where all the noise is coming from - because the HDX card is long, the fan is very close to the front of the machine.

I even called Avid on it - and they acknowledged the fan is noisy.

If you happen to be back at your clients studio, would you mind putting your ear in front of the mac and tell me if you hear the whine of the HDX card?

If I knew that a Westmere mac would eliminate my need of moving the computer out of the C/R, I'd buy it - much simpler than drilling through the wall for a pass-through.

And, I agree sonically - did my first mix on it, and it never felt pinched or harsh when the material got dense. Sounds beautiful.

Thanks,

- Kent

[Doc Mixwell]

Kent -

Yes, I will be returning to his studio this upcoming week, so I will again be able to check it out for you.

However, I am sure, the card's fan was producing minimal noise to my ear and nothing that would bother me.

I did check the front of the machine, where the CPU fan was (to my ear) obviously louder then the HDX fan behind it.

[rus5]

Hi Folks,

I'm still working my HDX external power connection problem. Yesterday, my dealer came up with another suggestion which someone here also suggested. If you happen to have an empty CD/DVD drive bay as I do, there's an unused connector in there that this cable:

SATA to LP4 Power Cable Adapter - 6in

is supposed to connect to. Then the other side would connect to the PC version of the Avid supplied cable and the other end of THAT of course would connect to 1, 2 or 3 HDX cards. An outstanding issue is how to run the cable from in there to the main part of the computer where the cards are. They're going to test it out in the next few days and get back to me and if it works, I'll post the results here as well.

Of course, they still haven't heard squat back from Avid on the issue - imagine my surprise...

A couple more comments. I agree with elambo, as usual, about the graphic card choice. The reason I picked the upgrade is to utilize the GPU power for other applications as described in an earlier post. Like multiple processor utilization, software companies haven't made much progress in utilizing Apple's (or their own) GPU calls so, so far, it hasn't made much (any?) difference. Nonetheless, that was my thinking in picking the more powerful card. And like elambo, I can't imagine any audio-only need for the upgraded card. That said, since it didn't cost much and a lot of us use our computers for multiple things there are probably ALREADY a lot of people in the same situation as me who have the card, and therefore, this issue. And getting rid of my sexy card and buying another one because of this problem is a costly and undesirable solution.

Lastly, I made a point of checking the noise coming from my HDX card again yesterday and I have to say, I can't hear any noise whatsoever coming from it's fan above the normal fan noise of my Mac. I can't say whether my Mac itself is unusually noisy compared to others but it seems about what you'd expect. Not whisper quiet but not very loud either - for what its worth.

[karljohnson]

Hi Russ -
Thanks for the help - I've ended up buying a USB2 to IDE/SATA cable and using the power supply like suggesting - I've just updated the firmware on the card and everything seems to run smoothly so far ....... - To be honest though I feel like a beta tester already and I've not even started on working with HDX .....
I agree with what someone said about the graphics card but two points.... These are available as an UPGRADE on the Apple site and I bought this Mac used so had no choice. Also many professional in film etc may well have bought these graphics card so I can see many issues and complaints - I think the card only needs 5 v so as long as the graphics card can take a loss in one socket of something of this nature then it should be simple to make a 'Y' splitter cable ....
Cheers and thanks again mate
Kj

[rus5]

Originally Posted by karljohnson

Hi Russ -
Thanks for the help - I've ended up buying a USB2 to IDE/SATA cable and using the power supply like suggesting - I've just updated the firmware on the card and everything seems to run smoothly so far ....... - To be honest though I feel like a beta tester already and I've not even started on working with HDX .....
I agree with what someone said about the graphics card but two points.... These are available as an UPGRADE on the Apple site and I bought this Mac used so had no choice. Also many professional in film etc may well have bought these graphics card so I can see many issues and complaints - I think the card only needs 5 v so as long as the graphics card can take a loss in one socket of something of this nature then it should be simple to make a 'Y' splitter cable ....
Cheers and thanks again mate
Kj

Hi Karl,

Excellent news that you've got things up and running! My dealer just sent me an email that they got the SATA to LP4 solution working as well and they're sending me the cable today.

Also, totally agree on your comments about the video card upgrade, the fact that there are lots of reasons someone might have the upgraded card (like buying a computer that already has it), and reasons people doing non-audio things might want the more powerful card anyway. And I DEFINITELY agree about all of us being beta-testers for Avid. On the other hand, I believe it is an absolute impossibility Avid doesn't already know all about this problem and is simply doing their "Avid Thing", which is just not giving a shit. We're only paying customers after all. As I mentioned, its been days and days since this first came up and Avid hasn't even acknowledged the issue yet with my dealer, much less done anything to help solve it.

I suspect ultimately the Y-splitter idea will be the permanent solution. Someone mentioned that since the cable is designed to feed up to three cards, it may follow that the HDX cards don't draw much power so the motherboard may not have a problem with providing it through a splitter cable. It's odd to me though that since there are so many other applications for Mac Pros this hasn't come up a lot already and someone out there in cable land hasn't already produced such a Y-splitter. In any case, if they have I'll be damned if I can find it.

Anyway, there's the USB2 to IDE/SATA solution and at least those of us who are not using the second drive bay have that solution (perhaps there's a splitter for THAT cable?). I hope PT10HD+HDX ends up being worth the money and all this trouble (including Avid's incomprehensible "upgrade" policy). So far so good for me, and others seem to be reporting good things. We'll see... It will be interesting to hear your take when you've had a chance to use it.

- Russ

[hoop]

Okay - I've recorded samples of the noise. Since I didn't want to have the HDX card on for part of this test, I couldn't use my HDX rig to record. Instead, I used my M-Audio Firewire Solo, with a Schoeps CMC64

Microphone was located at 2 feet from mac pro, parallel to the power button.

Room Tone (no Mac Pro running, just MBP and MacMini): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1453227/room%20tone.wav

Nehalem with NO HDX card: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1453227/nehalem%20non%20hdx.wav

Nehalem with HDX card: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1453227/nehalem%20hdx%20fan.wav

I know this test isn't perfect, but I hope it will at least illustrate how much noisier the HDX card is compared to the stock Nehalem.

- Kent

[CeretoneAudio]

That is LOUD!

Its funny that some dealers have said they cannot even hear it

Have you considered checking a place like this

http://www.quietpc.com/gb-en-gbp/products/vgacoolers

They may have some sort of aftermarket cooler that is compatible

[elambo]

Originally Posted by CeretoneAudio

That is LOUD!

Its funny that some dealers have said they cannot even hear it

The difference is enormous.

Keep in mind that some dealers might be listening in stores which are noisy so "I can't hear it" is relative to your own environment. Based on those audio files, I wouldn't be excited about the noise.

Was that just one card?

[Doc Mixwell]

I have not had a chance to listen to those above samples, but I cannot discern the hdx fan at all on this Westmere 8-core machine. It is not audible over the macs fan, at all. I can only surmise that it differs from Mac to Mac.

[Crizdee]

Hi,

Is the fan not effected by temperature? this would explain why its different for each person! I don't have an HDX card and have no plans to buy one yet, but my computer and HD interfaces are very quiet because my room is kept cool.



Chris

[karljohnson]

Hi bud - not yet - Avid have said future revisions will be able to control the fan depending on temperature ....
Kj

[cut]

In the midst of HDX install, beware of this:
Pro Tools 10.1 with HDX hardware freezes while Creating DAE Objects

[cut]

So 9 hours later, and 2 or 3 of that wasted with the "hold the n key and launch pro tools" thingy that apparently is a very well kept secret. Seems to be screaming and solid as hell.

[cytuarte]

Can anyone tell me if the old Digi 192 I/O DSUB connector will work with the new Avid HD I/O? From what I can tell on the Avid site, they look the same, just want to know if anyone has experienced this swap out first hand.

Also, will the Digidesign expansion chassis work with the HDX cards?

[Neil Pickles]

Originally Posted by cytuarte

Can anyone tell me if the old Digi 192 I/O DSUB connector will work with the new Avid HD I/O? From what I can tell on the Avid site, they look the same, just want to know if anyone has experienced this swap out first hand.

Also, will the Digidesign expansion chassis work with the HDX cards?

The D25 is wired the same as is the AES it's just a much better sound

No idea re the magma I would assume "no" due to the power requirements of the cards, it doesn't say supported on the Magma or Avid site

[cytuarte]

Originally Posted by Neil Pickles

The D25 is wired the same as is the AES it's just a much better sound

No idea re the magma I would assume "no" due to the power requirements of the cards, it doesn't say supported on the Magma or Avid site

Thanks Neil! Have you had a lot of experience with systems integration of the new HDX hardware/software? I'm doing an upgrade at my facility and want to know if there are any little things I should look out for RE: Compatibility.

I've checked out all system reqs for hardware and software and we seem to be in good shape. We were using the magma expansion chassis for our old HD Accel cards, but I think we'll be able to get away with putting two HDX cards into the PCIe slots of the computers and daisy chaining them for power with a Y-split cable. That is unless my tech can figure out a way to get power into that expansion chassis. (seems like a risky maneuver)

[Neil Pickles]

Originally Posted by cytuarte

Thanks Neil! Have you had a lot of experience with systems integration of the new HDX hardware/software? I'm doing an upgrade at my facility and want to know if there are any little things I should look out for RE: Compatibility.

I've checked out all system reqs for hardware and software and we seem to be in good shape. We were using the magma expansion chassis for our old HD Accel cards, but I think we'll be able to get away with putting two HDX cards into the PCIe slots of the computers and daisy chaining them for power with a Y-split cable. That is unless my tech can figure out a way to get power into that expansion chassis. (seems like a risky maneuver)

I've now done 2 HDX systems, one on a new Quad core Mac and one on a new 8 core. I followed the install manual to the letter and both have been fine. In fact better than fine. The card does update the firmware so make sure it's a clean install no older versions of PT on (just in case)

A key point is HDX card in first, then install PT 10.1, then fire up and it updates the firmware.

The only problem I have had and in fact the only crashes have been traced to the latest TDM Sonnox EQ+GML version. It's the one where they changed the graphic so you can now grab and manipulate the EQ curves with little balls, kind of like renaissance comp and the new channel strip plug in. I had to go backwards to an older version as that latest version of that plug in turned the rig into a "crashomatic 6000" you so much as looked at the Sonnox EQ and it crashed, well you get my drift.

The power cable for the cards, both Mac and PC, are in the HDX box. They have jumpers on them for up to 3 cards. Ours powers fine off our Macs. There is an issue if you upgraded the graphics card to the more expensive one as that takes both power points, but I can't see why an audio person would want or need to have done that (unless you were doing graphics or high level gaming on the same machine)

I installed TDM versions of the PI's I had TDM licenses for and they simply open as RTAS and it ignores the TDM part ;-) The single issue was the Sonnox EQ but that's solved and it does work just fine. I've been playing with old mixes and converting them all day loads of Sonnox TDM's being flipped to RTAS no more issues at all.

The instruments now come on a separate installer, and if you have the instrument pack Structure, Velvet, etc Strike, Velvet and Transfuser need to be updated to a 10.1 compatible version after install as well.

Channel strip is awesome, the new Phoenix is much easier to use as well and HEAT is very, very efficient.

I haven't ran a blue interface yet, but the HD box had a single adapter cable in it mini to large digilink and I'll try that tomorrow, but it's supported in 10 so shouldn't be an issue.

I also installed Softube AAX DSP today, I'm liking what I hear so far, I need to check out their amps as one glaring omission from Avid is Eleven has not been ported yet. It's kind of annoying that 90% of the bomb factory stuff has and personally I never really dug it, but Eleven which I really liked isn't . Revibes been done though and also runs Native AAX as well as does a bunch of stovk stuff like EQ3 Dyn 3 etc but after channel strip you'll never use em again

If you're doing a Native HD as well be very careful check out the DUC as I posted a very useful (as have others) account of that. A friend got that wrong and trashed his card Avid sent him a new one but he was without his new Native rig for a few days.

Hope that helps. My view on it I liked it so much I decided to crossgrade my own HD3 and that's my own money (as apposed to someone elses!!)

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by CeretoneAudio

That is LOUD!

Its funny that some dealers have said they cannot even hear it

Have you considered checking a place like this

Quiet PC UK - Quiet Graphics Card Coolers

They may have some sort of aftermarket cooler that is compatible

12 Core Mac Pro noise with two HDX cards running vs No cards just computer noise. 12 inches in front of Mac

[Neil Pickles]

Originally Posted by Neil Pickles

The only problem I have had and in fact the only crashes have been traced to the latest TDM Sonnox EQ+GML version. It's the one where they changed the graphic so you can now grab and manipulate the EQ curves with little balls, kind of like renaissance comp and the new channel strip plug in. I had to go backwards to an older version as that latest version of that plug in turned the rig into a "crashomatic 6000" you so much as looked at the Sonnox EQ and it crashed, well you get my drift.

I just wanted to say I did speak to Sonnox support about this, they had, literally the day after I downloaded my plug ins updated the installer to 2-7-2 that will sort this. I've been too busy to try it yet but hope to get that version on today. They were very helpful and very fast. In the meantime the older version worked perfectly anyway. So big thanks to Sonnox support.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by cytuarte

Can anyone tell me if the old Digi 192 I/O DSUB connector will work with the new Avid HD I/O? From what I can tell on the Avid site, they look the same, just want to know if anyone has experienced this swap out first hand.

Also, will the Digidesign expansion chassis work with the HDX cards?

Out of interest, why would you need to run an expansion chassis with HDX?!

[Brian Carter]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Out of interest, why would you need to run an expansion chassis with HDX?!

I wonder the same thing ..... I also wonder if it will work.

[Demor]

Probably so you can hook it up to a laptop.

[Demor]

Just installed HDX2 in our system and I thought I'd show you the stats. Its a pretty light session, and you can see that there are a couple of plugs being converted to RTAS as the voice usage has gone up a tiny bit. PT wanted to convert more plugs to RTAS for voice savings reasons but I reverted that. Still there is less CPU usage you can't really see in the pictures but before it hopped from 5 to7 % and now from 3 to 5 %. The amount of time slots used has gone down dramaticly, whatever that means......





It is noisier than before, I'm glad the stuff will be moved out of the controlroom when the carr is finished.

And the magical question:............. Does it sound better...?

I don't know..... I'm a gain staging fanatic so I guess not.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Demor

Probably so you can hook it up to a laptop.

Isn't there a dedicated, 1 PCIe Slot Magma purely for that?

The PE6R4 isn't designed for laptop use is it? I'm not sure if you can even get the PMCIA card to connect it to one..

[RyanC]

So it sounds like the HDx card has an extra 4 or 6 pin plug for the fan, out of curiosity, to the people with the quiet ones, are you sure you plugged the fan in?

Maybe that's a dumb question but it would explain why some people hear it and others don't.

[Demor]

It's either that or the rest of the equipment is already in a really loud CR.

[Mikkel Nielsen]

Originally Posted by cut

In the midst of HDX install, beware of this:
Pro Tools 10.1 with HDX hardware freezes while Creating DAE Objects

This just saved my night (and the rest of my hair)
THANKS ALOT!!