Avid Pro Tools Threads: Maybe it's time for us stop this nonsense...
Old 29th October 2011
  #1
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Thread Starter
Avid Pro Tools Threads: Maybe it's time for us stop this nonsense...

*steps on my soapbox*

Hello everyone,

I see that there has been alot of activity on the subject of Pro Tools 10 and Pro Tools HD's new DSP chips. From the literature I have read and of the early impressions I have from BRIEF demo I did while touring Sweetwater Sound I only have positive things to say. It seems that alot of angry voices is coming from the pricing for the OPTIONAL upgrade, since I have yet to be forced upgrade version 7. Remember there are a number of reasons why Avid set this pricing the way it is and it is not to be mean or "evil". I also recall there being at least a dozen or so other DAWs out there that you could switch to without acting like an angry mob. Where did all the professionals go? This is the music BUSINESS people, act accordingly please.

*step down from my soapbox*
Old 29th October 2011
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall Oliver View Post
Where did all the professionals go?
Hello Marshall,

The professionals are currently waiting in the professional waiting room, next to the professional water cooler, to the left of the professional bathrooms and to the right of the professional cafeteria.

Hopefully, your professional memo got out through the professional wireless network, and will be updated on the professional web blog, professional web site links, professional tweets, professional facebook status updates, and finally, the professional sub forum on gearslutz.
Old 29th October 2011
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roc Mixwell View Post
Hello Marshall,

The professionals are currently waiting in the professional waiting room, next to the professional water cooler, to the left of the professional bathrooms and to the right of the professional cafeteria.

Hopefully, your professional memo got out through the professional wireless network, and will be updated on the professional web blog, professional web site links, professional tweets, professional facebook status updates, and finally, the professional sub forum on gearslutz.
What a professional reply.
Old 29th October 2011
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Randolph View Post
What a professional reply.
seconded +1 lol

Voicing Feedback - good and bad, protools has to take it all in.
The needs of the many out way the needs of a few... and right now the majority are wanting fairer upgrade pricing.

I'm guessing the current price point is a the cusp of making 15%-40% returns on investment... So maybe Avid should wind back the profit projections back to around 1-5% more in line with current Economic times - that would end the standoff, create good will amongst users. Chances of that happening... quite likely if too few don't take up the current offerings.

The market always determines price and value, not the vendor. Get pricing wrong and a State of the Art, Next Gen, Hi-end product will sit on the shelves...

The trend is people dig value. Software developer around the world are all dropping prices atm to stay with the times, AVID seems to be doing the opposite. Yes they spent a buck load on HDX and Coding, but maybe this new product was prob too costly to bring to market in this economic climate. On avid's end they need to make the Maths add up... On the consumer end, the maths isn't adding up for a large majority.

Eg. Concorde... A marvel of aviation died cos there was no demand... priced themselves out of the market with a superior product.


Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com
Old 30th October 2011
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcoosticZoo View Post
seconded +1 lol

Voicing Feedback - good and bad, protools has to take it all in.
The needs of the many out way the needs of a few... and right now the majority are wanting fairer upgrade pricing.

I'm guessing the current price point is a the cusp of making 15%-40% returns on investment... So maybe Avid should wind back the profit projections back to around 1-5% more in line with current Economic times - that would end the standoff, create good will amongst users. Chances of that happening... quite likely if too few don't take up the current offerings.

The market always determines price and value, not the vendor. Get pricing wrong and a State of the Art, Next Gen, Hi-end product will sit on the shelves...

The trend is people dig value. Software developer around the world are all dropping prices atm to stay with the times, AVID seems to be doing the opposite. Yes they spent a buck load on HDX and Coding, but maybe this new product was prob too costly to bring to market in this economic climate. On avid's end they need to make the Maths add up... On the consumer end, the maths isn't adding up for a large majority.

Eg. Concorde... A marvel of aviation died cos there was no demand... priced themselves out of the market with a superior product.


Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com
I'm at Protools 8.0.5 and I am staying there in my home recording, there is no need for me to get PT10. My setup is:

1. Mac Pro Intel Nehalem chip, 2.26Ghz, 16 gigs ram, 8 core.
2. Protools Le, 003Rack Plus, with D.I. inputs version 8.0.5

I have all the tools I would need in it to rock without going higher, I would let the major studios do that.


Old 30th October 2011
  #6
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcoosticZoo View Post
seconded +1 lol

Voicing Feedback - good and bad, protools has to take it all in.
The needs of the many out way the needs of a few... and right now the majority are wanting fairer upgrade pricing.

I'm guessing the current price point is a the cusp of making 15%-40% returns on investment... So maybe Avid should wind back the profit projections back to around 1-5% more in line with current Economic times - that would end the standoff, create good will amongst users. Chances of that happening... quite likely if too few don't take up the current offerings.

The market always determines price and value, not the vendor. Get pricing wrong and a State of the Art, Next Gen, Hi-end product will sit on the shelves...

The trend is people dig value. Software developer around the world are all dropping prices atm to stay with the times, AVID seems to be doing the opposite. Yes they spent a buck load on HDX and Coding, but maybe this new product was prob too costly to bring to market in this economic climate. On avid's end they need to make the Maths add up... On the consumer end, the maths isn't adding up for a large majority.

Eg. Concorde... A marvel of aviation died cos there was no demand... priced themselves out of the market with a superior product.


Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com
That may be true that many studios focused on music may be detered by this pricing but alot of the post based ones will pay without batting an eye. Workflow trumps price in that world. I guess its okay that Nuendo is priced similarly yet does not recieve the ridicule that Avid Pro Tools does. I know, more users but still something that seems a bit off.
Old 30th October 2011
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcoosticZoo View Post
seconded +1 lol

Eg. Concorde... A marvel of aviation died cos there was no demand... priced themselves out of the market with a superior product.
www.acoosticzoo.com
Completely OT but the US helped a lot killing the Concorde at the time.
A.
Old 30th October 2011
  #8
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Thank you Marshall !
Well said. PTHD10 is being overshadowed by the
noise over the price and the management at Avid.
I understand the frustration
over the cost, but once you use it you will see
it is a very strong PT release that gives us lots of
new features and fixes many of the bugs.
It makes your system fly.
Old 30th October 2011
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.sound View Post
but once you use it you will see
it is a very strong PT release that gives us lots of
new features and fixes many of the bugs.
It makes your system fly.
No one disputes that Marti. It's not about the performance of said system, it's about the management and rollout style. You can't argue with the feelings of betrayal, mistrust, and anger that hundreds if not thousands of PT owners currently have. Even big scoring mixers are upset.

But back to the matter at hand, can someone point me to the professional forums on GS, I'd like to apply and see if they'd have me.......
Old 30th October 2011
  #10
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
No one disputes that Marti. It's not about the performance of said system, it's about the management and rollout style. You can't argue with the feelings of betrayal, mistrust, and anger that hundreds if not thousands of PT owners currently have. Even big scoring mixers are upset.

But back to the matter at hand, can someone point me to the professional forums on GS, I'd like to apply and see if they'd have me.......
Conducting yourself as a professional doesn't mean there is forum for that. I guess acting out is the new norm.
Old 30th October 2011
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall Oliver View Post
Conducting yourself as a professional doesn't mean there is forum for that. I guess acting out is the new norm.
It was a joke. Come on man, lighten up a bit. Most days GS is about as far from professional as you can get.
Old 30th October 2011
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
It was a joke. Come on man, lighten up a bit. Most days GS is about as far from professional as you can get.
Swag...! lol.
Old 30th October 2011
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
It was a joke. Come on man, lighten up a bit. Most days GS is about as far from professional as you can get.
He's got a point there, Marshall.
Old 30th October 2011
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jslevin View Post
He's got a point there, Marshall.
Unfortunately that wasn't always the case...... and if the current crop of active GS posters is any inclination of how the music 'business' is doing right now, then it's no wonder that Avid is starting to put more and more focus towards the Post industry....
Old 30th October 2011
  #15
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by drBill View Post
It was a joke. Come on man, lighten up a bit. Most days GS is about as far from professional as you can get.
maybe that's a bad thing.
Old 30th October 2011
  #16
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Ahh Pro Tools

Ahh Pro Tools, the girl I love to hate....

I have been ranting for almost a week about what pro tools did.

I think this is a great place to do it among people who actually use it and can relate.

I love pro tools. If i did not love pro tools I would not care and complain so much.

I will not be upgrading my PT to 10 because your right its not mandatory and I will let my wallet speak for its self

The problem is ALOT of people are not upgrading because of this

That means they are not making as much money

Have you seen their stocks?

That means their financial situation will not get better...

We can only speculate what might happen if an amazing program like pro tools is crapped on by a bunch of exec's that can't understand they would make more money if they dropped the price than they are making with it high.

With that said I love pro tools

and im pissed they are putting my favorite program in jeopardy because they are so outta touch with reality that they can't relies dropping the price would have made them more money......

We are all angry because PT is our baby we love it.

We don't appreciated people treating our baby like this.
Old 30th October 2011
  #17
Gear addict
 

Quote:
and if the current crop of active GS posters is any inclination of how the music 'business' is doing right now, then it's no wonder that Avid is starting to put more and more focus towards the Post industry....
The problem for Avid is that you can not hype your new Mbox line to the songrwiters / home studios / hobbyists crowd and then ask them to accept expensive upgrades like post industry is used to. It will just not work.

Quote:
It's not about the performance of said system, it's about the management and rollout style. You can't argue with the feelings of betrayal, mistrust, and anger that hundreds if not thousands of PT owners currently have. Even big scoring mixers are upset.
100% agree with this.

If PT10 was in the same price range than PT8 upgrade, I don't think we would be hearing so much negative feedback.
Old 11th November 2011
  #18
Gear interested
 

alas . . .

gone are 200 executives jobs ay AVID. Many more are on the chopping block -- but they have yet to receive the memo. Having worked as a retail executive for more than 15 years ( as my day job ) to afford my passion of music, I and the thousands of rage filled consumers are drawing a sad conclusion for this company. AVID's pricing strategies and confusing product lines not to mention their ridiculous approach to customer service and tech support no longer blurs the line between a stable and bad business model: It is a BAD model.
Example: Bob walks into a music store to buy a DAW. He has heard about Pro Tools, and wants to give it a try. Bob has a a brand new mac. What does Bob need ? An AD/DA converter ? probably . . . Bob buys an M-audio fast track for a $100 and Pro Tools 10 for $600. Thus starts Bob's nightmare. Was there an iLok in the box ? Fortunately there is, but you would never know it because it isn't stated on the ProTools box.
( anywhere ).
Will his hardware and software work together on his new mac ? Eventually. After Bob has earned his degree in website navigation, (( practically a requirement for AVID's website )) found his iLok, downloaded the CORRECT driver for his out of date M-audio Fast Track ( that Avid would rather sell through than RTV ), set up his iLok account, attempted to register his product, install and uninstall Pro Tools 10 5-6 times to try to register it correctly, gotten a Kernel panic on his mac because he left the USB plugged in when he went to install the Fast Track driver and only learned he wasn't supposed to do that until after he had finished; called Apple on how to fix the problem and they told him that he actually needed to call Avid because it is their issue . . . Bob was unable to talk to anyone because it was 630 on a Saturday evening in CA, and Tech Support is closed.
What is Bob to do ? Deal with it ? and yet, this is what AVID EXPECTS everyone to do . . . time after time after time. They do not make things simple for the consumer -- but they want the simple consumer to buy their products. They want the professional consumer to continue to pay and pay and pay for things that should have been done the first time around.
I have used (and even trained) Pro Tools users for years . . . it just saddens and annoys me to no end to see mis-managed companies continue to proceed on their reputation (( that is over saturated by professional engineers -- that probably have not had to personally pay for an AVID product for years due to their endorsements )). You really want to change something with AVID ??
. . . don't give AVID another dime, and tell everyone you know to buy something else . . . anything else.
Old 11th November 2011
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishboisfo View Post
It is a BAD model.
Example: Bob walks into a music store to buy a DAW. He has heard about Pro Tools, and wants to give it a try. Bob has a a brand new mac. What does Bob need ? An AD/DA converter ? probably . . . Bob buys an M-audio fast track for a $100 and Pro Tools 10 for $600. Thus starts Bob's nightmare. Was there an iLok in the box ? Fortunately there is, but you would never know it because it isn't stated on the ProTools box.
( anywhere ).
Will his hardware and software work together on his new mac ? Eventually. After Bob has earned his degree in website navigation, (( practically a requirement for AVID's website )) found his iLok, downloaded the CORRECT driver for his out of date M-audio Fast Track ( that Avid would rather sell through than RTV ), set up his iLok account, attempted to register his product, install and uninstall Pro Tools 10 5-6 times to try to register it correctly, gotten a Kernel panic on his mac because he left the USB plugged in when he went to install the Fast Track driver and only learned he wasn't supposed to do that until after he had finished; called Apple on how to fix the problem and they told him that he actually needed to call Avid because it is their issue . . . Bob was unable to talk to anyone because it was 630 on a Saturday evening in CA, and Tech Support is closed.
What is Bob to do ? Deal with it ? and yet, this is what AVID EXPECTS everyone to do . . . time after time after time. They do not make things simple for the consumer -- but they want the simple consumer to buy their products. They want the professional consumer to continue to pay and pay and pay for things that should have been done the first time around.
I have used (and even trained) Pro Tools users for years . . . it just saddens and annoys me to no end to see mis-managed companies continue to proceed on their reputation (( that is over saturated by professional engineers -- that probably have not had to personally pay for an AVID product for years due to their endorsements )). You really want to change something with AVID ??
. . . don't give AVID another dime, and tell everyone you know to buy something else . . . anything else.
LOL I remember when I bought PT9 and a Mbox3. I was totally baffled trying to navigate on Avid's web site to download the appropriate drivers and authorizations, there didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to their site. I've been around the block more than a few times but I felt like a total noob. I even had to call the music store which I never do and even though they knew their stuff they were baffled too.
Old 11th November 2011
  #20
Gear interested
 

This is coming from a 'total noob' that bought a 003 and PT8 software without an iLok. I installed everything an older dual core MBP. I have upgraded since to Pro Tools 9, followed almost immediately by 10. I don't understand how 'Bob' had so much trouble, because it was simple and self-explanatory for me. I had momentary confusion when upgrading to PT9 since I never had an iLok, and still don't understand how I managed to get PT8 working, but an Avid Audio representative coached me through the process, then had me order an iLok. The directions on the websites were easy to understand and I was running within minutes. I understand that PT11 is on the horizon and that everything I've purchased, including hardware, will become obsolete and unsupported, but that doesn't bother me. I've seen nothing but quality products and customer service from the company, and will gladly pay for more hardware and upgrades when PT11 is released. I'm extremely excited to see what comes from the new software, although many features probably won't mean anything for a bedroom 'studio'.

I have no understanding of HD, Native, etc., so complaints from those users and professional sound engineers doesn't mean anything to me, but you're making it sound like Avid Audio is nothing but a headache and attempting to screw over it's entry-level customers, while my personal experiences had demonstrated otherwise.

Yeah, there's bugs. It's new software, it happens. Yeah, there's been a price increase, but not being hardware dependent is completely worth the money, in my opinion. Yeah, there's not going to be hardware support after PT10, because Avid Audio is going to do something new. Your studios are running fine on PT9/10, so if it's really that bothersome, stay on that course. I guess I don't fully understand all these complaints, but it seems to me like everyone needs to calm down. It seems like there's a rotten sense of entitlement around here.
Old 11th November 2011
  #21
Gear nut
 

@ fishboisfo

Your post raises an interesting question. Is BOB Avid's target customer ?

You need to remember that ProTools originated in a very different time and space when there was a much higher degree of technical proficiency demanded in the profesional audio world. If the engineer wasn't capable of aligning a tape machine, then there'd be a tech available. When people started switching to DAW's (which was only PT to start) they'd often hire installers to do this.

Simply put, Digidesign/AVID's core customer base were people for whom navigating a crappy website and troubleshooting installation issues were just a cost of doing business.

From a consumer standpoint, AVID is certainly not Apple. It's really a testament to how successful Apple has been to bringing very sophisticated tech to the consumer level that people just expect things to work out of the box with out any trouble. Personally I think it's great that things have progressed to the point where it's expected.

IMHO this is as much a result as the fact that AVID has been successful in penetrating the consumer market and are not really setup to deal with it.

joel
Old 11th November 2011
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishboisfo View Post
gone are 200 executives jobs ay AVID. Many more are on the chopping block -- but they have yet to receive the memo. Having worked as a retail executive for more than 15 years ( as my day job ) to afford my passion of music, I and the thousands of rage filled consumers are drawing a sad conclusion for this company. AVID's pricing strategies and confusing product lines not to mention their ridiculous approach to customer service and tech support no longer blurs the line between a stable and bad business model: It is a BAD model.
Example: Bob walks into a music store to buy a DAW. He has heard about Pro Tools, and wants to give it a try. Bob has a a brand new mac. What does Bob need ? An AD/DA converter ? probably . . . Bob buys an M-audio fast track for a $100 and Pro Tools 10 for $600. Thus starts Bob's nightmare. Was there an iLok in the box ? Fortunately there is, but you would never know it because it isn't stated on the ProTools box.
( anywhere ).
Will his hardware and software work together on his new mac ? Eventually. After Bob has earned his degree in website navigation, (( practically a requirement for AVID's website )) found his iLok, downloaded the CORRECT driver for his out of date M-audio Fast Track ( that Avid would rather sell through than RTV ), set up his iLok account, attempted to register his product, install and uninstall Pro Tools 10 5-6 times to try to register it correctly, gotten a Kernel panic on his mac because he left the USB plugged in when he went to install the Fast Track driver and only learned he wasn't supposed to do that until after he had finished; called Apple on how to fix the problem and they told him that he actually needed to call Avid because it is their issue . . . Bob was unable to talk to anyone because it was 630 on a Saturday evening in CA, and Tech Support is closed.
What is Bob to do ? Deal with it ? and yet, this is what AVID EXPECTS everyone to do . . . time after time after time. They do not make things simple for the consumer -- but they want the simple consumer to buy their products. They want the professional consumer to continue to pay and pay and pay for things that should have been done the first time around.
I have used (and even trained) Pro Tools users for years . . . it just saddens and annoys me to no end to see mis-managed companies continue to proceed on their reputation (( that is over saturated by professional engineers -- that probably have not had to personally pay for an AVID product for years due to their endorsements )). You really want to change something with AVID ??
. . . don't give AVID another dime, and tell everyone you know to buy something else . . . anything else.
Amen. I've been dealing with this back to the 001 days.
Old 11th November 2011
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcoosticZoo View Post
and right now the majority are wanting fairer upgrade pricing.
What kind of actual sales figures do you have to support this claim? Curious.
It sounds suspiciously like speculation based on the whining of some folks on Internet forums and Facebook. Which, BTW, happens just about every time Avid makes an announcement. Yet, here they are............
Old 11th November 2011
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall Oliver View Post
*steps on my soapbox*

Hello everyone,

I see that there has been alot of activity on the subject of Pro Tools 10 and Pro Tools HD's new DSP chips. From the literature I have read and of the early impressions I have from BRIEF demo I did while touring Sweetwater Sound I only have positive things to say. It seems that alot of angry voices is coming from the pricing for the OPTIONAL upgrade, since I have yet to be forced upgrade version 7. Remember there are a number of reasons why Avid set this pricing the way it is and it is not to be mean or "evil". I also recall there being at least a dozen or so other DAWs out there that you could switch to without acting like an angry mob. Where did all the professionals go? This is the music BUSINESS people, act accordingly please.

*step down from my soapbox*
I just don't get why someone would make a thread telling people to quit expressing their opinions about a product. No matter what anyone's complaint is, they certainly have a right as a consumer to voice it. It also seems pretty clear that a lot of folks have big problems with Avid and their pricing of the latest Pro Tools (and the future likely pricing).

Not to mention, Avid really should be very happy that so many folks have taken time out of their day to express their dissatisfaction on forums like these and in person. Traditionally, companies only found out about customer dissatisfaction by a loss of sales, and then followed that up with market surveys, in which they had to pay another company to provide results on where lies the dissatisfaction.

Marshall, I know you to be an intelligent man, but the fact that you missed the point on this is pretty staggering. What ultimately is going to cost Avid more, the bitching on the internet scenario in which Avid finds out quickly and cheaply that they have a problem (they do) and rolls out a solution to that problem (which I'll discuss later), or confronting a loss of sales and conducting customer feedback and market surveys to discover how to right the problem?

I can also mention that Avid does do this: I was asked to be a part of a customer survey of their before version 9 came out. I am a marketing graduate student, and I am quite happy to tell a company what I think of their product. It's important to them, and in case you don't know, marketing surveys aren't cheap. I have to say I was pretty impressed with Avid and Pro Tools 9, they did an about face on the product, ending their traditional tying of the software to the hardware that had become cumbersome and archaic and was costing them product position in the prosumer market. This blunder of theirs with Pro Tools 10- there's really no other way to describe it- tells me that they have a big problem with communicating to their customers, as well as a big problem marketing to different segments of a larger market. This version is described as being "for post" and yet professional music studios are also part of whom Avid is selling this release to, and they aren't happy. That's a big problem. You can't dismiss or ignore that. Avid has a real issue with marketing their products to different sub-markets (prosumer, professional music, post-production, and so forth). It's very hard to do, and usually unprofitable, which is why most companies don't do it.

The fact is, everyone "complaining" as you would have it represents a potential or former customer telling Avid that there is a problem with their marketing strategy, product or pricing. If Avid is intelligent (they usually aren't), they will address the concerns of these people that you dismiss, which they already have to a degree with Max Gutnik (?) coming on to forums like these and guiding customers towards the support packages (which is a de facto reduction in price). I predict they will also do more to address concerns, or at least that's what a well led company would do. Sure, it's embarrassing to roll out a product that is gathering as much negative feedback as this- or at least the marketing of it. But rallying around a failed marketing strategy is much worse than a little embarrassment, that's how you run a company into the ground once and for all.

For instance, I won't be upgrading to Pro Tools 10. A longtime enthusiast, Dr. Bill, has concerns about his future with the product. If Avid dismisses this as "bitching" on the internet, then they have a huge problem, because we are the people their products are marketed towards. If we as the market- and Bill and myself are different markets that Avid is trying to sell to- are saying on the internet that we don't want and won't buy the product, then that's the single most important thing Avid needs to hear. Otherwise, they simply will have sold what they are going to sell to the people who have already bought it... and that money is already with Avid.

Coca-Cola came out with New Coke. Their sales plummeted, and customers decried the new version. Coca-Cola listened, and quickly abandoned the new product. Now, no one knows what would have happened had they not, perhaps in time people would have grown to love the new product. But we do know that in time, Coca-Cola recovered their position in the marketplace with their flagship product.

So, your suggestion that people quit complaining about the product on the internet, really isn't helping Avid at all. They should be listening... we'll see if they are or not in the future.
Old 11th November 2011
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishboisfo View Post
gone are 200 executives jobs ay AVID.
Either you don't know what "executive" means, or this is a joke I'm just not getting.
Old 11th November 2011
  #26
Gear interested
 

yup -- it was

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooey View Post
Either you don't know what "executive" means, or this is a joke I'm just not getting.

It was a joke, actually. Check the thread from CNET. Trust me, I know what it means to be an executive.
Old 12th November 2011
  #27
Gear Guru
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Mal View Post

Coca-Cola came out with New Coke. Their sales plummeted, and customers decried the new version. Coca-Cola listened, and quickly abandoned the new product. Now, no one knows what would have happened had they not, perhaps in time people would have grown to love the new product. But we do know that in time, Coca-Cola recovered their position in the marketplace with their flagship product.
To me, New Coke is a prime example of a company 'listening' TOO MUCH to their customers. Why was New Coke invented in the first place? Because in "taste tests" and focus groups, Pepsi regularly beat Coke. (Simply because it was sweeter. One sip vs one sip.)

Freaked out by what these 'customers' were saying, Coke slavishly came out with New Coke which equaled Pepsi in sugar and toned down the carbonation, again more like Pepsi. All because of their perception of "consumer demand".

Sweeter of course is not really what you want when you sit down with a burger, some fries... and A Coke.

After the introduction of New Coke, the withdrawal of "Old Coke" was, many say, not a "mistake" but rather a scam - designed to provoke that very outcry and reestablish consumer appreciation for the original product. Oh, and maybe give New Coke an open field for a while. Coke's likely intention was to split the market selling both Coca-Cola Classic and the sweeter, Pepsi-like New Coke

Another suspicious event was the fact that upon its "return", Coke Classic no longer used cane sugar as the sweetening ingredient. In the hiatus, the formula was switched to use cheaper corn syrup. To the detriment of the flavor, IMO. But of course direct comparison was difficult because the product had been gone for a while. The old switcheroo.

(You can still get cane sugar coke from Mexico or buy the Kosher for Passover version of the product, if you would like to make the comparison.)

IMO, Digidesign/Avid has overall done an excellent job of listening to their customers, with respect to features, workflow and so on. While much of it happened early on, I think the reason the program works so well is that the pros who use it have contributed ideas to its design.

In more recent years, they added more and more MIDI stuff in 6 and 7 when the LE crowd asked for it, though lord knows few big studios and post houses asked for it. In 8, they added more included plug-in goodies and a bunch of instruments to compete better with the 'composing' DAWs. With PT 9, they finally separated the software from the hardware, just like everybody was asking for.

It strikes me that the only area in which they do not seem to be "listening to their customers" is in the area of Price.

What a shock.
Old 12th November 2011
  #28
Gear addict
 
Hyder boy's Avatar
 

If you guys spent as much time recording music as you do posting this useless crap, you would all polishing your gold records by now. If you don't like hit the door.
Old 12th November 2011
  #29
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyder boy View Post
If you guys spent as much time recording music as you do posting this useless crap, you would all polishing your gold records by now. If you don't like hit the door.
+1

Sent from my Droid using Gearslutz.com
Old 12th November 2011
  #30
Gear Guru
 
charles maynes's Avatar
 

ah-

such short memories...

anybody remember dealing with Otari or Studer on a weekend?
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