Integrating with an Analog Console--what's best?

[kosmokrator]

in a facility like that I'd absolutely insist on a TDM-capable system.
Period.

[Fenris]

The more outboard equipment I buy, the less I use plug-ins, and eventually I won't use them at all. Even cheap outboard beats plug-ins 90% of the time.

If the TDM system will pay for itself with outside projects (make sure to calculate ALL the costs including downtime and re-purchasing all your plug-ins every few years to stay compatible), great. Speaking for myself, I would never work in a studio that didn't have a 2" analog machine. But I'm in the minority.

As for the "carbon neutral" concept ... At first glance, a digital studio appears to be more "green" than an analog studio. Analog equipment requires more raw materials to manufacture, it uses more electricity, and it requires more cooling. But analog equipment also allows the engineer to work MUCH faster and encourages the band to be well-rehearsed. Analog studios routinely make records in three days.

You have to consider ALL the factors. I ride a bicycle everywhere, but the excercise increases my respiration and caloric intake and generates a LOT more CO2 than a car. The only way to actually be "carbon neutral" is to stop breathing.

I'm sure trees don't stay awake at night worring about their "oxygen footprint." Animal waste products stimulate plant growth, and vice versa. It's a very powerful self-regulating system and it was operating for millions of years before there were any environmentalists.

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by ajbianco

so again don't get the point of HD native?

Well, let me share my experiences so far. For us, HD native provides:

1. A recording device function
2. A way to label stuff that happens in sessions
3. An editing platform
4. A way to interface with clients who work not only in our studio, but also in other facilities
5. A basic collection of well-known plugins that have become standard

After a bit of a rough start getting all the system configured (there was a way to have one sample rate variable set at 44.1k while all others were at 96k, leading to some sample drops) ProTools has settled into the studio as a part of the team. Thankfully it is not some attention-grabbing bad boy that diminishes the abilities of other players in order to look better itself, for which I am grateful.

The more we look at HD Native vs. TDM, the more convinced we are that Native is the future and TDM is the past.

[lozion]

Originally Posted by Clueless

Well, let me share my experiences so far. For us, HD native provides:

1. A recording device function
2. A way to label stuff that happens in sessions
3. An editing platform
4. A way to interface with clients who work not only in our studio, but also in other facilities
5. A basic collection of well-known plugins that have become standard

After a bit of a rough start getting all the system configured (there was a way to have one sample rate variable set at 44.1k while all others were at 96k, leading to some sample drops) ProTools has settled into the studio as a part of the team. Thankfully it is not some attention-grabbing bad boy that diminishes the abilities of other players in order to look better itself, for which I am grateful.

The more we look at HD Native vs. TDM, the more convinced we are that Native is the future and TDM is the past.

Interesting, what is your I/O set-up?

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by lozion

Interesting, what is your I/O set-up?

We are using Harrison Premium IO. We have over 100 channels of analog I/O connected to our API Vision, plus another 80+ channels of AES I/O for looping video and EFX through our core IO infrastructure that the Vision can see. We just confirmed the functionality of the digital tie lines between the Main studio and the Annex: 256 channels each way at 96kHz.

Thus, we can run 128 tracks of playback into the vision, then send 64 direct outs, 24 bus outs, 12 aux sends, stereo busses A, B, C, GM, and discrete 5.1 surround to our Harrison Trion as 114 tie lines, and still have more than half our tie lines for connections to other outboard gear in the Main studio.

The Trion has 96 dual-input channels fully resourced at 96K, and 192 fully resourced dual-input channels at 48K.

[lozion]

Originally Posted by Clueless

We are using Harrison Premium IO. We have over 100 channels of analog I/O connected to our API Vision, plus another 80+ channels of AES I/O for looping video and EFX through our core IO infrastructure that the Vision can see. We just confirmed the functionality of the digital tie lines between the Main studio and the Annex: 256 channels each way at 96kHz.

Thus, we can run 128 tracks of playback into the vision, then send 64 direct outs, 24 bus outs, 12 aux sends, stereo busses A, B, C, GM, and discrete 5.1 surround to our Harrison Trion as 114 tie lines, and still have more than half our tie lines for connections to other outboard gear in the Main studio.

The Trion has 96 dual-input channels fully resourced at 96K, and 192 fully resourced dual-input channels at 48K.

I see. How is this interfaced to your HD Native card?

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by lozion

I see. How is this interfaced to your HD Native card?

HD Native feeds a MADI HD box (or SSL DeltaBox) and then everything unites across 4 Harrison Xrouters.

[lozion]

Originally Posted by Clueless

HD Native feeds a MADI HD box (or SSL DeltaBox) and then everything unites across 4 Harrison Xrouters.

[Mike O]

Please pardon my ignorance or if I have misread/misunderstoond. Isn't PT HD Native limited to 64 i/o?

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by Mike O

Please pardon my ignorance or if I have misread/misunderstoond. Isn't PT HD Native limited to 64 i/o?

Doesn't mean you cannot gang them together like people did when 8, 16, or 24 track tape was not enough.

[Mike O]

Originally Posted by Clueless

Doesn't mean you cannot gang them together like people did when 8, 16, or 24 track tape was not enough.

Thank you sir! I've been enjoying HD Native here, sometimes linked to Radar. But I had not contemplated anything near the scale you have implemented. Somehow never considered for a moment that you might be do something similar with sessions spanning different boxes and projects.

Interesting..........

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Clueless

Doesn't mean you cannot gang them together like people did when 8, 16, or 24 track tape was not enough.

If you need to run that much IO, surely it's easier to just buy the system as one? if you need 2 computers, 2 HD cards, 2 copies of every plugin you want to run...how much cheaper is that than one computer, magma chassis with PCI (or PCIe) cards to make HD4, plus one copy of every license? is the price difference worth the extra hassle for Native?

Personally, the idea of splitting projects across systems is just an extra ballache, but I'd like to hear how you achieve it.

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

If you need to run that much IO, surely it's easier to just buy the system as one? if you need 2 computers, 2 HD cards, 2 copies of every plugin you want to run...how much cheaper is that than one computer, magma chassis with PCI (or PCIe) cards to make HD4, plus one copy of every license? is the price difference worth the extra hassle for Native?

Personally, the idea of splitting projects across systems is just an extra ballache, but I'd like to hear how you achieve it.

If I needed to do that every day, I'd get a system to put it all in one place. But we have multiple rooms and multiple PT systems. When we need to gang stuff together, which happens when audio meets video or film, we have a system that lets us weave everything together.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Clueless

If I needed to do that every day, I'd get a system to put it all in one place. But we have multiple rooms and multiple PT systems. When we need to gang stuff together, which happens when audio meets video or film, we have a system that lets us weave everything together.

Makes sense!

[scott petito]

So far hd native is smoking my hd3 tdm system...I certainly did not expect that...and one the first projects I threw at it is one one of the biggest mix projects I've ever done....about 100 tracks tons of plugs vis the works .. Not a hiccup.. All my tdm plugs showed up as rtas versions with no changing etc...

And my computer is still running at about 25 percent .. My hd3 was pretty much maxed out at this point just with massenburg eqs. I can now run dozens as rtas

And I did a last minute vocal overdub with a 64 buffer and no decernable latency and not using low latency mode full cue mixes just like I left them in the tdm version...

I suspect my hd system may be for sale after the cards come back from avid... They don't work in the newest macs! no one mentioned that

Cheers
Scott