Why is there no post-production film/TV forum? - Page 5

starcrash13 · 17th January 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange_METaL

I would love a post forum...

right now looking for information on DOLBY-E / DOLBY-AC3 encoding/decoding for Broadcast/DVD-V and DVD-A

Where do I find that???

The Dolby website has just about every detail and specification you can imagine. If you need real-world experience, you can ask specific questions either at the DUC (Post & Surround) or here on this forum. Start a new thread perhaps. Let's just let 'em rip on the SMGSLT forum and maybe Jules can later move our OT threads to our new "Post-Production Sound for Film/TV/Multimedia" forum when it arrives!

Orange_METaL · 17th January 2007

Never really though to check the DUC.... not really a protools thing... but kinda I guess...

I started @ the dolby website and that was a big help... but it starts to get into a wack of really techie stuff that's over my head... I like to know how it does it... not the binary code of how it does it :

I've started a thread all about this
http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=104325

this is my real question
M

Orange_METaL · 18th January 2007

My question is about broadcast in North America... if you are the Audio house and would have to send out the mix for a restripe (if it's mixed in ST or surround) I'm going to Ass-U-Me that I would need to send them an encoded file so it would restripe on their master like a ST file... then would only be decoded in the consumers home by their receiver (cable or satellite)

Correct????

Or would the video house that is doing the restripe be doing the encoding???

Does anyone have and experience with the Neyrinck Encoding Plugins for Protools???
I've herd of people encoding audio (AC-3) with compressor (Apple software)... where is that preset???

Thanks for the help

Henchman · 18th January 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange_METaL

My question is about broadcast in North America... if you are the Audio house and would have to send out the mix for a restripe (if it's mixed in ST or surround) I'm going to Ass-U-Me that I would need to send them an encoded file so it would restripe on their master like a ST file... then would only be decoded in the consumers home by their receiver (cable or satellite)

Correct????

Or would the video house that is doing the restripe be doing the encoding???

Does anyone have and experience with the Neyrinck Encoding Plugins for Protools???
I've herd of people encoding audio (AC-3) with compressor (Apple software)... where is that preset???

Thanks for the help

I'm not clear what you mean with re-strip.

But we send out 5.1 masters, that get encoded by the picture house for layback.

Led · 18th January 2007

Restripe's just replacing the audio tracks on the master. Is there a different term in the US for it? In Oz whenever we do surround we mix down to 8 tracks and sned them out on DA88 to be encoded. All the stuff we do is Dolby for cinema so it needs to be done by someone with a Dolby license anyway, which we don't have.

Orange_METaL · 19th January 2007

re-stripe for me means - replace the video house audio with the final mix (audio) that will be herd on air...

Final audio locked to final picture on the Master tape (whatever that maybe ie/ D-Beta) basically a layback I guess..

from some of the replies that I'm getting it looks like I'd just deliver all the descrete trackes

Henchman · 19th January 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange_METaL

re-stripe for me means - replace the video house audio with the final mix (audio) that will be herd on air...

Final audio locked to final picture on the Master tape (whatever that maybe ie/ D-Beta) basically a layback I guess..

from some of the replies that I'm getting it looks like I'd just deliver all the descrete trackes

Ok, laybakc. Re-stripe to me means restripign timecode.

Orange_METaL · 19th January 2007

sorry...

I'm a music guy new in the post-production world

Henchman · 19th January 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange_METaL

sorry...

I'm a music guy new in the post-production world

No need for excuses.

georgia · 26th January 2007

Normally we create a 5.1 descrete track L,C,R,Ls,Rs,LFE and an Lt,Rt encoded Dolby surround mix, 5.1 and/or Lo,Ro, and the Stems. Stems normally end up as M&Es ( music & effects)(everything other than dialogue), then SFX( including SFX, Foley, AMB), then MUSIC, and finally DIAG. These are normally either Lo,Ro, Lt,Rt or 5.1 depending on delivery specs. We then get the Master tape and depending on layback requests place the audio with an insert edit on the master tapes. Depending on the tape, there are normally between 2 and 8 audio tracks. Depending on the request, we place the appropriate audio on the correct tape track. If a request is made for DOLBY-E, DOLBY-AC3, or DOLBY SURROUND we encode as we print to tape using the appropriate DOLBY encoder unit. Depending on the encode and the frame rate, we shift the encoded Dolby-E stream and/or Dolby-AC3 stream offsets as requested by the client. Some clients want the encoded streams to be in one of 3 positions: In-sync ON the tape, In-sync at playback out of the decoder, or Left as one (or so) frames out of sync due to the encoder delay. Again, this is based on frame rate mostly (as an example 29.97ND = about 1 frame offset for Dolby-E). Most clients that utilize Dolby-E for broadcast are asking for the encoded audio to be in-sync ON the tape becuase they ingest the picture and audio to servers and deal with the offset later. Clients who ask for Dolby-AC3 normally want the tape to play in-sync out of the DECODER because these tapes end up as digital playback in threaters.... ( the dolby decoder also creates a delay) No matter what, we always provide tones, 2 pops and appropriate recorded voice leader stateing the type of track, how it was encoded, and what offsets, if any were added....Since we're normally doing this as an insert edit and not a crash record, we keep the timecode as provided by the tape delivery house and sync to that timecode. Normally, we only deal with re-writing timecode with a Crash record.
If we're delivering for cinema, we provide either a disk from our Dolby DMU with the 5.1 Mix encoded and the LtRt optical encoded in our dub-stage, or if it's DTS, we deliver on DA-98HR (L,C,R,Ls,Rs,LFE, Lt,Rt) to DTS, where they create the DTS CD. We then get a copy and QC it in our DTS reader in our dub-stage. On top of everything else, we normally have to deal with a film mix, and a DVD mix, and a broadcast mix... The broadcast mix having to meet specific standards, normally including a -10 db headroom issue and an DIAGNORM specific level to pass QC at the broadcaster....
There's a start for you.

cheers
geo

cajonezzz · 26th January 2007

Georgia- you rule.

I've been following your posts for some time and you are always helpful up and beyond the call of duty.

and your so darn nice while doing it.

thanks for your selfless help---- you'd make a great mod here.

( hint )

cz

zenkonami · 26th January 2007

Tally up one more for a radio/TV/film post forum!

-Zen

ndogg · 26th January 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orange_METaL

sorry...

I'm a music guy new in the post-production world

Don't apologize!! In Toronto, 'restripe' is generally the correct word. Occasionally someone says 'layback', but not much.

I'm curious about the surround delivery specs, too. I didn't think the audio houses were generally delivering AC3 encoded mixes. I thought it was either discreet audio on a DA88 or DolbyE, but we're not doing surround yet, so I'm in the dark.

So when's this new forum going to be created?

Cheers,
n

Inner Light · 26th January 2007

Wow, been real busy with some projects I haven't been on in a while, but I thought this idea was dead.

thanks to all who voted, I look forward to learning so much about this fascinating field that i know almost nothing about, but experience single everyday.

georgia · 26th January 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndogg

Don't apologize!! In Toronto, 'restripe' is generally the correct word. Occasionally someone says 'layback', but not much.

I'm curious about the surround delivery specs, too. I didn't think the audio houses were generally delivering AC3 encoded mixes. I thought it was either discreet audio on a DA88 or DolbyE, but we're not doing surround yet, so I'm in the dark.

So when's this new forum going to be created?

Cheers,
n

Broadcasters are asking more and more for the DOLBY-E encoding due to the ability to edit content and decode/encode/decode as much as they want. Almost all the AC-3 stuff we're doing to tape is for threatrical release... Most threaters have the AC-3 decoders, but even here we're getting requests for DOLBY-E. So the only real stuff thats AC-3 is for direct consumer playback, such as DVDs...Which is yet another encoding path...
We're being hired more and more for encodes,even from other post houses... We've got a HUGE BOOK of delivery specs for over a hundred networks, cable networks, stations and channels that have submitted them to us.. So we do the QC in house and then work with DOLBY to encode at their facility or in ours.. Last year we did a series of HD commercials for NAPA that started in a Florida high-end ad agency, went to Ohio to a sound house, where they sent us a bunch of tapes and a single 5.1 mix and a single LtRt that we QC'd, adjusted, and encoded to tapes with all sorts of varying delivery requirements.

cheers
geo

SK1 · 26th January 2007

I'm down.

Count me in

riteup3 · 28th January 2007

NAMM is over. Juuuuuuuuules ...?

jowillie · 28th January 2007

So...Geo....Are you suggesting there ARE standards.....just everybody's are different?
Thanks,
WE

georgia · 28th January 2007

yup... Every standard is equal, but some are more equal than others.....

The one thing you can count on is the standards you delivered to yesterday will be different today. I always double check the delivery specs before I start a project and again, before I deliver... I have on ocassion received a delivery spec, only to have it change internally at the clients site without my knowledge... So I always check before I print.

cheers
geo

Greg Curtis · 28th January 2007

Another vote for a dedicated Post forum!

And it may be a good idea to re-format all of the forums at this time anyway. "So much gear" and "high end" are practically the same forum....

Maybe distinct "Pro" and "Home" studio forums?

Greg

.

Jules · 28th January 2007

Geert - make it so...

Tom H · 28th January 2007

Well, seems like you guys got your way! Nice

JesseJ · 28th January 2007

Happiness!

big country · 28th January 2007

Orange_METaL · 28th January 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgia

yup... Every standard is equal, but some are more equal than others.....

The one thing you can count on is the standards you delivered to yesterday will be different today. I always double check the delivery specs before I start a project and again, before I deliver... I have on ocassion received a delivery spec, only to have it change internally at the clients site without my knowledge... So I always check before I print.

cheers
geo

Thanks for your help....

Sounds like its just dependant on what the client wants... It's all started to become a bit clearer...

RoundBadge · 29th January 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jules

Geert - make it so...

thumbsup

starcrash13 · 29th January 2007

HOLY MOLY!! This is awesome!

Now I have nothing to say about post-sound. I'm speechless...nah just kiddin'...

18th January 2007	#123
Orange_METaL Gear Head Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 44	Encoding for Broadcast My question is about broadcast in North America... if you are the Audio house and would have to send out the mix for a restripe (if it's mixed in ST or surround) I'm going to Ass-U-Me that I would need to send them an encoded file so it would restripe on their master like a ST file... then would only be decoded in the consumers home by their receiver (cable or satellite) Correct???? Or would the video house that is doing the restripe be doing the encoding??? Does anyone have and experience with the Neyrinck Encoding Plugins for Protools??? I've herd of people encoding audio (AC-3) with compressor (Apple software)... where is that preset??? Thanks for the help

19th January 2007	#126
Orange_METaL Gear Head Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 44	re-stripe for me means - replace the video house audio with the final mix (audio) that will be herd on air... Final audio locked to final picture on the Master tape (whatever that maybe ie/ D-Beta) basically a layback I guess.. from some of the replies that I'm getting it looks like I'd just deliver all the descrete trackes Last edited by Orange_METaL; 19th January 2007 at 06:07 AM.. Reason: forgot a line

26th January 2007	#130
georgia Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2006 Location: NY NY Posts: 1,331	laybacks Normally we create a 5.1 descrete track L,C,R,Ls,Rs,LFE and an Lt,Rt encoded Dolby surround mix, 5.1 and/or Lo,Ro, and the Stems. Stems normally end up as M&Es ( music & effects)(everything other than dialogue), then SFX( including SFX, Foley, AMB), then MUSIC, and finally DIAG. These are normally either Lo,Ro, Lt,Rt or 5.1 depending on delivery specs. We then get the Master tape and depending on layback requests place the audio with an insert edit on the master tapes. Depending on the tape, there are normally between 2 and 8 audio tracks. Depending on the request, we place the appropriate audio on the correct tape track. If a request is made for DOLBY-E, DOLBY-AC3, or DOLBY SURROUND we encode as we print to tape using the appropriate DOLBY encoder unit. Depending on the encode and the frame rate, we shift the encoded Dolby-E stream and/or Dolby-AC3 stream offsets as requested by the client. Some clients want the encoded streams to be in one of 3 positions: In-sync ON the tape, In-sync at playback out of the decoder, or Left as one (or so) frames out of sync due to the encoder delay. Again, this is based on frame rate mostly (as an example 29.97ND = about 1 frame offset for Dolby-E). Most clients that utilize Dolby-E for broadcast are asking for the encoded audio to be in-sync ON the tape becuase they ingest the picture and audio to servers and deal with the offset later. Clients who ask for Dolby-AC3 normally want the tape to play in-sync out of the DECODER because these tapes end up as digital playback in threaters.... ( the dolby decoder also creates a delay) No matter what, we always provide tones, 2 pops and appropriate recorded voice leader stateing the type of track, how it was encoded, and what offsets, if any were added....Since we're normally doing this as an insert edit and not a crash record, we keep the timecode as provided by the tape delivery house and sync to that timecode. Normally, we only deal with re-writing timecode with a Crash record. If we're delivering for cinema, we provide either a disk from our Dolby DMU with the 5.1 Mix encoded and the LtRt optical encoded in our dub-stage, or if it's DTS, we deliver on DA-98HR (L,C,R,Ls,Rs,LFE, Lt,Rt) to DTS, where they create the DTS CD. We then get a copy and QC it in our DTS reader in our dub-stage. On top of everything else, we normally have to deal with a film mix, and a DVD mix, and a broadcast mix... The broadcast mix having to meet specific standards, normally including a -10 db headroom issue and an DIAGNORM specific level to pass QC at the broadcaster.... There's a start for you. cheers geo __________________ ms georgia hilton mpe(editor) mpse cas NY NY http://www.filmdoctors.com http://www.hiltonmediamanagement.com http://www.hmmproductions.com http://www.editingtruck.com http://www.stage32.com/profile/6569/georgia-hilton http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0385255/resume MEMBER: IATSE LOCAL 700

26th January 2007	#131
cajonezzz Lives for gear Joined: Jun 2002 Location: Carlsbad Ca. Posts: 1,765	Georgia- you rule. I've been following your posts for some time and you are always helpful up and beyond the call of duty. and your so darn nice while doing it. thanks for your selfless help---- you'd make a great mod here. ( hint ) cz __________________ http://recordingdrummerproducer.com http://socaldrumsociety.com http://ProCraftMedia.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Watch your thoughts, for they become words. Watch your words, for they become actions. Watch your actions, for they become habits. Watch your habits, for they become character. Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.

26th January 2007	#134
Inner Light Gear addict Joined: Oct 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 326 Thread Starter	Wow, been real busy with some projects I haven't been on in a while, but I thought this idea was dead. thanks to all who voted, I look forward to learning so much about this fascinating field that i know almost nothing about, but experience single everyday. __________________ Of all the things I've lost It's my mind I miss the most... www.myspace.com/innerlightmusic

17th January 2007	#122
Orange_METaL Gear Head Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 44	Never really though to check the DUC.... not really a protools thing... but kinda I guess... I started @ the dolby website and that was a big help... but it starts to get into a wack of really techie stuff that's over my head... I like to know how it does it... not the binary code of how it does it : I've started a thread all about this http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=104325 this is my real question M

18th January 2007	#125
Led Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,728	Restripe's just replacing the audio tracks on the master. Is there a different term in the US for it? In Oz whenever we do surround we mix down to 8 tracks and sned them out on DA88 to be encoded. All the stuff we do is Dolby for cinema so it needs to be done by someone with a Dolby license anyway, which we don't have.

19th January 2007	#128
Orange_METaL Gear Head Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 44	sorry... I'm a music guy new in the post-production world

26th January 2007	#132
zenkonami Gear nut Joined: Apr 2006 Location: North Hollywood Posts: 116	Tally up one more for a radio/TV/film post forum! -Zen

26th January 2007	#136
SK1 Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,142	I'm down. Count me in

28th January 2007	#137
riteup3 Gear addict Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 395	NAMM is over. Juuuuuuuuules ...?

28th January 2007	#138
jowillie Gear maniac Joined: Aug 2006 Location: NC Posts: 231	So...Geo....Are you suggesting there ARE standards.....just everybody's are different? Thanks, WE

28th January 2007	#139
georgia Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2006 Location: NY NY Posts: 1,331	yup... Every standard is equal, but some are more equal than others..... The one thing you can count on is the standards you delivered to yesterday will be different today. I always double check the delivery specs before I start a project and again, before I deliver... I have on ocassion received a delivery spec, only to have it change internally at the clients site without my knowledge... So I always check before I print. cheers geo

28th January 2007	#140
Greg Curtis Lives for gear Joined: May 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,475	Another vote for a dedicated Post forum! And it may be a good idea to re-format all of the forums at this time anyway. "So much gear" and "high end" are practically the same forum.... Maybe distinct "Pro" and "Home" studio forums? Greg .

28th January 2007	#141
Jules Gearslutz.com admin Joined: Apr 2002 Location: A Yank in London, UK Posts: 17,807 1 Review written	Geert - make it so...

28th January 2007	#142
Tom H Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2006 Location: Haarlem, Holland Posts: 1,387	Well, seems like you guys got your way! Nice

28th January 2007	#143
JesseJ Gear addict Joined: Feb 2005 Location: Finland, Europe Posts: 420	Happiness!

28th January 2007	#144
big country Lives for gear Joined: May 2006 Location: (visiting) Lake Elsinor Posts: 7,874	OPEN OPEN OPEN !

29th January 2007	#147
starcrash13 Gear addict Joined: Nov 2006 Location: Marin County, CA, USA Posts: 495	HOLY MOLY!! This is awesome! Now I have nothing to say about post-sound. I'm speechless...nah just kiddin'...

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