dolby SRD question
nucelar
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#1
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
  #1
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Thread Starter
dolby SRD question

Hi,
We're mixing an indy feature in 5.1.

Initially the release was going to be DCP only, but at the last minute they decided to print some 35 mm copies.
There's no budget for dolby license, but the film lab asks us to provide a dolby SR-D track.
Can I just take the LtRt created with Neyrinck from the 5.1 and record it back through a dolby 363 ?
Is SR-D just the same as SR but in digital (wav) form? Or am I missing something?
Thanks!
#2
25th July 2013
Old 25th July 2013
  #2
Gear Head
 

Hello,

There is no way to deliver a SR-D or Dolby Digital without a dolby license. The production will have to call Dolby an arrange a license and you will have to go to a facility that has access to DMU to make a MO with the 5.1 and LtRt audio.


No budget? Negotiate, beg dolby. Sometimes you can get deals.

Stephan Carrier
#3
28th July 2013
Old 28th July 2013
  #3
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danijel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nucelar View Post
Hi,
Is SR-D just the same as SR but in digital (wav) form? Or am I missing something?
No, SRD is the old brand name which changed to DD (Dolby Digital).

LtRt + Dolby 363 should work, but not legal without a license. License for SR is not much cheaper than the license for DD, so you'll probably end up doing DD.
#4
28th July 2013
Old 28th July 2013
  #4
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Henchman's Avatar
And all of that will most likely pale in comparison to the cost of making 35mm prints.
Have they actually looked into what the cost of making a 35 mm print will be?

I'm guessing, no.
#5
28th July 2013
Old 28th July 2013
  #5
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nzl62's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nucelar View Post
Hi,
We're mixing an indy feature in 5.1.

Initially the release was going to be DCP only, but at the last minute they decided to print some 35 mm copies.
There's no budget for dolby license, but the film lab asks us to provide a dolby SR-D track.
Can I just take the LtRt created with Neyrinck from the 5.1 and record it back through a dolby 363 ?
Is SR-D just the same as SR but in digital (wav) form? Or am I missing something?
Thanks!
If there is no budget for Dolby license then there is certainly no money for 35mm prints. That smack of complete lack of experience.
If they do run a 35mm print you will need an LtRt that is SR encoded often called an SVA as well. Tow items to do 35mm are the SRD and the SR mixes and you must have both on a dolby digital digital release.
#6
28th July 2013
Old 28th July 2013
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl62 View Post
If they do run a 35mm print you will need an LtRt that is SR encoded often called an SVA as well. Tow items to do 35mm are the SRD and the SR mixes and you must have both on a dolby digital digital release.
The DMU or MME will create the SVA while recording the DD CF-card (MO disk in the past). You CAN do the SVA "manually" but usually mixers just listen back to the SVA made by the DMU/MME and correct (punch in) as needed.

Haven't seen a mixer create the SVA full manually in years.
#7
28th July 2013
Old 28th July 2013
  #7
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minister's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by danijel View Post
No, SRD is the old brand name which changed to DD (Dolby Digital).
SR•D is the Dolby SR Analog Optical + Dolby Digital.

I know how these things can go with an Indy film when there literally is no more money.... However, as others have said the price of the first print alone is 10 times what a Dolby Printmaster Session (including license Fee) would be. Then they have to make several prints after that, plus shipping to festivals.

Have them call Dolby. In the past years they have become quite reasonable in dealing with small independent films. I do not speak for Dolby, nor is this a quote, but, I have seen fees of $4500-5000 USD for 90 minute Feature Films. If your film mix is good to go, you can do a Dolby PM session in the time it takes to load the film onto the system, test levels, calibrate the room, and run the film 3 times -- chances are, you could get a stage for a reasonable cost. This is the point where I would encourage them to do it right, get the license, use the logo, and be able to put it on the submission form that it is a Dolby Digital film. They are already spending 10's of thousands on lab costs, color adjustment going from digital to film, and the stock itself...so.....
#8
28th July 2013
Old 28th July 2013
  #8
Quote:
Initially the release was going to be DCP only, but at the last minute they decided to print some 35 mm copies.
Initially we were going to buy a Vespa, but at the last minute they decided to get a few Land Rovers

It's silly but I can't completely fault them. I blame festivals -- if they're not equipped to run a DCP, a print is pretty much the only way you can guarantee projection and sound will be tolerable. You hand them a Blu-ray and they'll immediately book you in the conference room with the 5' screen and the Sony projector on a card table. Or they put you in the theater and the gain is 10 dB low, and all the sound is coming out the surrounds.

Film prints and DCPs have an unmolestable, foolproof quality. Mainly because an exhibitor can't buy his way into print or DCP presentation for $500. People who operate such equipment, by its nature, are going to be professionals and will be using the facility to make money entertaining audiences when it's not engaged in a festival.
nucelar
Thread Starter
#9
28th July 2013
Old 28th July 2013
  #9
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nucelar's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvcapra View Post
Initially we were going to buy a Vespa, but at the last minute they decided to get a few Land Rovers
First of all thanks for the replies, it's all clear now technically.
To put this more in context, this is a dubbing of a foreign language film into Spanish. Any cost related to the original production is not relevant in this case. There is the cost of dubbing, mixing and authoring the DCP. In that context, a dolby licence is a big chunk.

But a more fundamental issue has surfaced. The industry has changed a lot, the above quote is not valid anymore. With 2/3 of cinemas equipped with digital projection, the distributor shows his product in full glory in the vast majority of cinemas, without any photochemical process, without dolby intervention and much cheaper. Making a 35mm print is a royal pain in the ass, it's only done because some "alternative" cinemas, where these "alternative" films could be successful, are still analog. According to the logic of the distributor, he downgrades to 35mm. Why should I get dolby's approval when it's beeing released in DCP without dolby? It makes no sense.
The audio post studio (we) will be the guarantor of audio quality now.
The economic crisis is causing everybody to look at every euro cent, and look for alternatives for every process.
Again, thanks for the thoughts!
#10
29th July 2013
Old 29th July 2013
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nucelar View Post
Why should I get dolby's approval when it's beeing released in DCP without dolby? It makes no sense.
Because Dolby own the technology required to put sound onto 35mm film.

If you want to have sound on 35mm film talk to Dolby.

All the best

Bruno
nucelar
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#11
29th July 2013
Old 29th July 2013
  #11
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Thread Starter
I was paraphrasing the client with his cheapskate reasoning
#12
29th July 2013
Old 29th July 2013
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by nucelar View Post
But a more fundamental issue has surfaced. The industry has changed a lot, the above quote is not valid anymore. With 2/3 of cinemas equipped with digital projection, the distributor shows his product in full glory in the vast majority of cinemas, without any photochemical process, without dolby intervention and much cheaper. Making a 35mm print is a royal pain in the ass, it's only done because some "alternative" cinemas, where these "alternative" films could be successful, are still analog.
I assure you I did not mean to imply relative quality -- a DCP with uncompressed audio is objectively superior to a Dolby SRD. A Vespa is also better, and much more economical to operate, if you live in a city where there's lots of infrastructure, parking, paved roads and traffic laws. You need a Land Rover if you're going to be trekking across Malabar or curing Polio in remotest Sudan, or showing your movie outside of the highly-developed first world markets... (Land Rovers also always seem to be in the shop relative to Vespas, but I digress.)

35mm shouldn't be seen as a downgrade; if you need it you need it, and it remains a much more compatible option for most of the world. It's a testament to Dolby's marketing skills that they keep the gate on 35mm formats.
#13
29th July 2013
Old 29th July 2013
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvcapra View Post
I assure you I did not mean to imply relative quality -- a DCP with uncompressed audio is objectively superior to a Dolby SRD. A Vespa is also better, and much more economical to operate, if you live in a city where there's lots of infrastructure, parking, paved roads and traffic laws. You need a Land Rover if you're going to be trekking across Malabar or curing Polio in remotest Sudan, or showing your movie outside of the highly-developed first world markets... (Land Rovers also always seem to be in the shop relative to Vespas, but I digress.)

35mm shouldn't be seen as a downgrade; if you need it you need it, and it remains a much more compatible option for most of the world. It's a testament to Dolby's marketing skills that they keep the gate on 35mm formats.
nice analogy you made there
#14
29th July 2013
Old 29th July 2013
  #14
Lives for gear
A Dolby SRD printmaster can only be made under license by Dolby. The delivery format to the lab who will shoot the optical print can only be done on a Dolby MOD, or Dolby Flash card.
You cant make an SRD without a Dolby MME or DMU unit.

Have your production company contact Dolby. They have discount priced licenses for films that will have less than a certain number of prints.
#15
31st July 2013
Old 31st July 2013
  #15
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danijel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by minister View Post
SR•D is the Dolby SR Analog Optical + Dolby Digital.
Oops. I was 100% positive about that. I must have heard that story on the Gearslutz

Quote:
Originally Posted by minister View Post
I do not speak for Dolby, nor is this a quote, but, I have seen fees of $4500-5000 USD for 90 minute Feature Films.
Divide that by 3 or 4 for films that will only have a couple of copies in the 'developing markets'.
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