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asterix2k10
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#1
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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post production studio gear list

27" iMac (own)

+ Protools HD Native thunderbolt - $5000

+ Sennheiser 416 mic (own)

+ Neumann 193? - $1400

+ add three BM5A mk2'S (have two) - $1000

+ BM9S subwoofer - $999

+ a few pairs of headphones

Beyer Dynamic DT880 - 600? - $250

Sony MDR-7506? - $50

+ Mogami cables - $500?

+ lcd video screen for ADR booth - $700?

+ projector for mixing room - $500?

+ Dell U2711 extra lcd monitor for mixing - $500?

Am I on the right track here? Any suggestions for what projector to look at?

Here's the space:

Studio - a set on Flickr

Thanks.
#2
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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you have the space for a decent edit room. with a voiceover booth.

for that size space you dont need projection, and frankly, 5.1 is a vanity.


what exactly is the work you want to do? it is a nice personal space, but I think its way too small to have clients in.
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asterix2k10
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29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
you have the space for a decent edit room. with a voiceover booth.

for that size space you dont need projection, and frankly, 5.1 is a vanity.


what exactly is the work you want to do? it is a nice personal space, but I think its way too small to have clients in.
5.1 mixing and ADR recording
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29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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that will only probably be useful for really low budget ADR room, and I would not trust a broadcast or film mix to that space.

You might take a look at what other facilities you might be wanting to compete against to see their setups-
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29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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You control room is about 12.5' x 13 if I read it right. That is damn near a cube. I think your biggest problem will be avoiding issues involved in a room of that shape. Do you have a competent designer?

I agree with Charles. And also, for the reasons I stated above, I would avoid mixing anything serious in that room.
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29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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Is there anything I can do in terms of designing the room to make it a decent space for mixing, with enough room to build the booth in there? It's just an empty space right now.
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29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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I guess you need to determine what is really possible in the space- I would say you could set the space up into a smaller dub room without the v-o booth, or you could do a v/o booth control room that could double as an edit room.

Again- if this is a private space, you could set it up for 5.1 mixing, but I wouldnt bring paying clients into it unless they are really on the low end rate wise...
#8
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charles maynes View Post
I guess you need to determine what is really possible in the space- I would say you could set the space up into a smaller dub room without the v-o booth, or you could do a v/o booth control room that could double as an edit room.

Again- if this is a private space, you could set it up for 5.1 mixing, but I wouldnt bring paying clients into it unless they are really on the low end rate wise...
Charles, you hit the nail on the head here. I would absolutely take the booth out and just have a mix room. It's still on the smaller side of a mix room but you can make it work with a lot of bass traps, I mean a lot! A booth that small will never sound good, no matter what treatments you put in there and the mix room will be way too small.
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29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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What sort of work exactly are you targeting? Corporate? Advertising? Low budget TV, Promo, Doco, Big Budget TV, Feature?

Identify your target market, and design your room around it.
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#10
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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$500 for cables is insane, get a soldering iron, some bulk cable, and some connectors and make your own and use the left over money to build some bass traps as you're going to be needing a lot.
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29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandoncross View Post
Charles, you hit the nail on the head here. I would absolutely take the booth out and just have a mix room. It's still on the smaller side of a mix room but you can make it work with a lot of bass traps, I mean a lot! A booth that small will never sound good, no matter what treatments you put in there and the mix room will be way too small.
BTW, the ceilings are 9 feet tall.

What about just using the space to record ADR and edit but not for serious mixing? Perhaps if I make the ADR booth bigger, like half the size of the room? Then the client can go to another studio for final mixing?

I imagine right now it will be mainly for low budget indie films.
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29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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You do need to identify what your market is but your space is totally usable. More so depending on your location.

Sure, your not going to be competing with dubbing theatres/stages but at the same time they won't be competing with smaller facilities as a lot of the jobs won't have the budget to pay bigger (often overkill) set ups. At the same time they will often turn away a lot of work that the smaller places can pick up.

Think advertising, docs, smaller budget TV, sound design etc would be a good start. And lots of voice over.
#13
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainspin View Post
$500 for cables is insane,
Is it? Let's check your math......

How many lines does he need? How many running from the booth to the console? How far? How many cables coming out the pre-amps and any other outboard gear? How many coming out of the interface? Into the Speakers? And if he does surround? Now you have 6 cables that are at least 20 feet (to account for slack, running around the gear, the room, etc.), that's 120' right there.

Good cable is about a dollar a foot. With cables running every which way, it is not inconceivable that he would need 4-500 feet. Even if we pretend it's 300 feet, you are at $300.

Connectors? $2.49 for each end, so about $5/cable. Let's say he makes 20 cables. That's about $100.

What if he does a wall panel in the booth? Those are $25-50 or more for only 6 connectors!

Tax, shipping....

What about cables for the 416 and one for the Lav?

You still think $500 is "insane"?

ADR in a VO booth sounds horrible. Does it happen? Unfortunately, yes, more and more.... But hey, everybody does stuff and starts somewhere. And the opinions of others be damned, do what you gotta do. I don't recommend it.

A 7x12 booth for VO is not bad, that is an ok size for VO. But really, how much isolation can you get?? Floors transmit as much as walls, and so do ceilings. Do you have the budget to do the framing, the multiple layers of insulation, drywall, green glue, etc? What about a door? You budget for that? What about a window? You ever put in one of those? You ever price 2 pieces of differing sized glass, neoprene and framing?? Or will you have no window and a video camera? Some basement price studios do that, but I can't imagine any talent would enjoy that or be comfortable, or have it instill confidence in a film Director.... (then again, there are LOT of FIRST time and ONE TIME "film Directors".....).

Get a designer to come in and look at the space and tell you where to put doors, how to frame booths, and how to deal with your 13x13x9 cube. To do it right, you will need bass trapping, but maybe also Helmholz boxes. But that is not something I would trust to an internet forum, I would get someone in there. Or, cheap out completely and just hang some panels and hope for the best....and save for a better place.

My advice is get a REALISTIC assessment of how much "work" this other company can ACTUALLY bring in...not your HOPE...but what is reasonable to assume. Then build to suit the need. And consider it a work in progress...

I think you could get a lot of good editing, sound design, and VO done in a place like that. Also, if you are not that experienced at mixing, maybe best to get someone else to help you bring a project home. When I first started "mixing" films and TV, most of the projects were teeny little micro-indies and we learned as we went.... (and wondered what that big booming sound was when the film played...). But PAYING customers came later. And I cut my teeth on little industrials, spots and putting in many many hours.....
#14
29th June 2013
Old 29th June 2013
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Unless VO is a big part of your business and making you some serious $ then I'd lose the separate booth, have a bigger (and better shaped) room and just record the VO in the CR when you need to. You'll gain much better seating position for your clients as well. As I'm sure you know, you'll really need to give some love to the room re bass traps etc.. If you haven't already a read of the Real Traps site might help.

philp
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1st July 2013
Old 1st July 2013
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I would disagree with Philper and say if you do not have a client cornered and continuously feeding you mixing only work, that the VO Booth is essential.

While the room is not the biggest, and is no doubt going to have a fair share of issues, you will be able to work with it. I have worked in far worse spaces for many clients, and people just get the job done with what is at their disposal.

You will need to be as flexible and open to any gig as possible to help get yourself off the ground, so don't limit yourself to only mixing, and target the right clients.
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#16
1st July 2013
Old 1st July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt82aust View Post
I would disagree with Philper and say if you do not have a client cornered and continuously feeding you mixing only work, that the VO Booth is essential.

While the room is not the biggest, and is no doubt going to have a fair share of issues, you will be able to work with it. I have worked in far worse spaces for many clients, and people just get the job done with what is at their disposal.

You will need to be as flexible and open to any gig as possible to help get yourself off the ground, so don't limit yourself to only mixing, and target the right clients.
If I build the booth, there will only be room for a small edit room left over, which is okay. But the booth will be small and may not sound that good. If I don't build the booth, and use the whole room, I can build the 5.1 mixing setup, and still do ADR but with no booth. According to this thread some people prefer this anyway:

ADR: behind the glass or in the same room?

Getting the best possible sound is important, plus having a 5.1 setup would be nice and will allow me to offer mixing services. The downside is no separation. I understand separation can be important so the producer and director, etc. can talk amongst themselves without the talent hearing. Plus of course no eating, typing, cellphones, etc. while recording. And having the booth may look more professional. Then again some people say the vibe is better when everyone is in the same room. So I'm wondering if I could do without the booth, or if this would hurt me.
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1st July 2013
Old 1st July 2013
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The question I would be asking would be "will I be doing more 5.1 mixing" or "Will I be doing more VO Recording and Stereo Mixing"?

As much as I love doing 5.1 mixing, It's not what most of my jobs require.

As far as ADR in the same room, I personally wouldn't ever design a studio that way, but thats because I don't always have to do alot of ADR...
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3rd July 2013
Old 3rd July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minister View Post
Is it? Let's check your math......

How many lines does he need? How many running from the booth to the console? How far? How many cables coming out the pre-amps and any other outboard gear? How many coming out of the interface? Into the Speakers? And if he does surround? Now you have 6 cables that are at least 20 feet (to account for slack, running around the gear, the room, etc.), that's 120' right there.

Good cable is about a dollar a foot. With cables running every which way, it is not inconceivable that he would need 4-500 feet. Even if we pretend it's 300 feet, you are at $300.

Connectors? $2.49 for each end, so about $5/cable. Let's say he makes 20 cables. That's about $100.

What if he does a wall panel in the booth? Those are $25-50 or more for only 6 connectors!

Tax, shipping....

What about cables for the 416 and one for the Lav?

You still think $500 is "insane"?
I stand corrected, my home studio is nowhere near as complex, so I can have poor perspective at times. That being said, one can still save a lot of money by soldering their own cables. Most of the Monster cables I've seen average something like $2/foot, plus when making your own, you're able to customize length/color/connector type as needed. Of course, that's all dependent on if you think the time needed to make them is worth it.
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3rd July 2013
Old 3rd July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainspin View Post
I stand corrected, my home studio is nowhere near as complex, so I can have poor perspective at times. That being said, one can still save a lot of money by soldering their own cables. Most of the Monster cables I've seen average something like $2/foot, plus when making your own, you're able to customize length/color/connector type as needed. Of course, that's all dependent on if you think the time needed to make them is worth it.
Most studios will roll their own. Its much more practical to get a reel and cut to length. But Minister is right, $500 is probably too low.
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#20
14th July 2013
Old 14th July 2013
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May be getting 30% more space (add on next door room to use as booth) which will make things much better!
#21
17th July 2013
Old 17th July 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minister View Post
You control room is about 12.5' x 13 if I read it right. That is damn near a cube. I think your biggest problem will be avoiding issues involved in a room of that shape. Do you have a competent designer?

I agree with Charles. And also, for the reasons I stated above, I would avoid mixing anything serious in that room.
cubes are a little better then some weird shape that you have to do crazy calculations to figure out what is going. Although its not ideal a cube is predictable. That is according to Steve Klein
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